I want to click on the SVG square and change it to a circle; However I am not
trying to generate a circle using JavaScript, because eventually I want the
circle image to be one of many images in a database.

Can I store these images between <defs> tags and use JavaScript to call on each
image individually to replace the square image?

If not, how can I store these SVG images and call each one to replace the
square?

Thanks.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.0//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd">
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="120" height="120">

<script type="text/ecmascript"><![CDATA[

function replaceRect(evt) {
		 var rect = evt.target;
		 rect.parentNode.replaceChild(rect,circle);
		 }

]]></script>

<defs>

<circle id="circle" cx="60" cy="60" r="50" fill="green"/>

</defs>

	 <g>
		 <rect width="100" height="100" x="20" y="20" fill="blue"
onclick="replaceRect(evt)"/>
	 </g>

</svg>

Hi all,

Just completed second of two articles:

Tubefy Explained, part I: Lerping Colors
http://owl3d.com/svg/tubefy/articles/article1.html

Tubefy Explained, part II: Rounding Colors
http://owl3d.com/svg/tubefy/articles/article2.html

Next article: Variable Stroke Width.

Hope you enjoy,

Israel

Hi xyz,

you have to define the variable circle in your function replaceRect.
This code should work:

var rect = evt.target;
var circle = document.getElementById("circle");
rect.parentNode.replaceChild(circle,rect);

Best regards
Olaf

xyz1332003 wrote:
> I want to click on the SVG square and change it to a circle; However I am not
trying to generate a circle using JavaScript, because eventually I want the
circle image to be one of many images in a database.
>
> Can I store these images between <defs> tags and use JavaScript to call on
each image individually to replace the square image?
>
> If not, how can I store these SVG images and call each one to replace the
square?
>
> Thanks.
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
> <!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.0//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd">
> <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="120" height="120">
>
> <script type="text/ecmascript"><![CDATA[
>
> function replaceRect(evt) {
> 	 var rect = evt.target;
> 	 rect.parentNode.replaceChild(rect,circle);
> 	 }
>
> ]]></script>
>
> <defs>
>
> <circle id="circle" cx="60" cy="60" r="50" fill="green"/>
>
> </defs>
>
>  <g>
> 	 <rect width="100" height="100" x="20" y="20" fill="blue"
onclick="replaceRect(evt)"/>
>  </g>
>
> </svg>
>
>

--
Dr. Olaf Schnabel
Institute of Cartography
ETH Zurich
Wolfgang-Pauli-Str. 15
8093 Zurich
Switzerland

tel:    ++41 44 633 3031
fax:    ++41 44 633 1153
e-mail: oschnabel@...
www private:   http://www.ika.ethz.ch/schnabel
www project:   http://www.e-cartouche.ch
www institute: http://www.karto.ethz.ch

Thanks Olaf.

That was much simpler than I was expecting. I wasn't even sure this was
possible.


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Olaf Schnabel <oschnabel@...> wrote:
>
> Hi xyz,
>
> you have to define the variable circle in your function replaceRect.
> This code should work:
>
> var rect = evt.target;
> var circle = document.getElementById("circle");
> rect.parentNode.replaceChild(circle,rect);
>
> Best regards
> Olaf

Hi there.  I'm a newbie so I apologize in advance for any errors in my lingo or
if my questions are basic.

I have an svg file i created in illustrator.  it contains various shapes
representing buildings.  on top of the base shapes i have added text/labels to
help identify the buildings.  I need a way to automatically "zoom" in on a
particular shape when the user either clicks or mouses over it.  i need the
shape and the text to grow / zoom together.

The two approaches I've been reviewing are the <animate width> and the
<animateTransform transform="scale"> options.
I'm not sure which one is better.  The animate width seems more intuitive but
apparently only works with shapes that inherently have a width / height
property.  I haven't been able to get it work for me because the text / label
inside the rectangles.  I've tried grouping it and then animating the group. 
but that doesn't seem to work.
I've also played around with illustrator to combine the text and rectangle into
one shape (effectively creating one path tag) but i can't animate that either
using <animate width>
I guess I'm looking for confirmation here that this can't be accomplished.

i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap my
head around what transform(x,y) is really doing.  if this is a good route to go,
can anyone point me to a good article describing this?

alternatively, if you have a better idea on how to accomplish this using a
different method, i'm all ears.

thanks.

SVG animation is somewhat limited when dynamically manipulating SVG elements. If
you are familiar with Javascript and its programming interfaces to the DOM, then
typically this is the direction to go for dynamic SVG.

In the case of your need as 'zooming in' to an element would be accomplished
programmably by:
1. Place the element in a <g> or <svg> container and include a
viewBox attribute
2. User selection for zoom in/out would adjust the viewBox attribute values.

I guess this may be a bit much at this time, in your beginnings of SVG.
However, If you want to go in this direction, let us know, and we can go through
the steps to get there.
Regards,
Francis



--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "c_p47@..." <c_p47@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there.  I'm a newbie so I apologize in advance for any errors in my lingo
or if my questions are basic.
>
> I have an svg file i created in illustrator.  it contains various shapes
representing buildings.  on top of the base shapes i have added text/labels to
help identify the buildings.  I need a way to automatically "zoom" in on a
particular shape when the user either clicks or mouses over it.  i need the
shape and the text to grow / zoom together.
>
> The two approaches I've been reviewing are the <animate width> and the
<animateTransform transform="scale"> options.
> I'm not sure which one is better.  The animate width seems more intuitive but
apparently only works with shapes that inherently have a width / height
property.  I haven't been able to get it work for me because the text / label
inside the rectangles.  I've tried grouping it and then animating the group. 
but that doesn't seem to work.
> I've also played around with illustrator to combine the text and rectangle
into one shape (effectively creating one path tag) but i can't animate that
either using <animate width>
> I guess I'm looking for confirmation here that this can't be accomplished.
>
> i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap my
head around what transform(x,y) is really doing.  if this is a good route to go,
can anyone point me to a good article describing this?
>
> alternatively, if you have a better idea on how to accomplish this using a
different method, i'm all ears.
>
> thanks.
>

> i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap
> my head around what transform(x,y) is really doing.  if this is a good route
> to go, can anyone point me to a good article describing this?
>

something like this :
<animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale" from="1" to="1.5"
dur="0.25s" begin="mouseover" fill="freeze" />
<animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale" from="1.5" to="1"
dur="0.2s" begin="mouseout" fill="freeze" />



not an article, but a good example by Jeff Schiller :
http://www.codedread.com/menu.svg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i've tried something similar but i think you have to do something else too to
make it stay in the same location, but only grow.  when i use the
animateTransform, my shape actually moves across the page for some reason.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, David Leunen <leunen.d@...> wrote:
>
> > i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap
> > my head around what transform(x,y) is really doing.  if this is a good route
> > to go, can anyone point me to a good article describing this?
> >
>
> something like this :
> <animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale" from="1" to="1.5"
> dur="0.25s" begin="mouseover" fill="freeze" />
> <animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale" from="1.5" to="1"
> dur="0.2s" begin="mouseout" fill="freeze" />
>
>
>
> not an article, but a good example by Jeff Schiller :
> http://www.codedread.com/menu.svg
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

yes, i'd be interested in finding out more about how to follow your suggestion. 

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, FrancisH <fhemsher@...> wrote:

From: FrancisH <fhemsher@...>
Subject: [svg-developers] Re: animating a shape
To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, October 2, 2009, 3:31 PM






 





                   SVG animation is somewhat limited when dynamically
manipulating SVG elements. If you are familiar with Javascript and its
programming interfaces to the DOM, then typically this is the direction to go
for dynamic SVG.



In the case of your need as 'zooming in' to an element would be accomplished
programmably by:

1. Place the element in a <g> or <svg> container and include a

viewBox attribute

2. User selection for zoom in/out would adjust the viewBox attribute values.



I guess this may be a bit much at this time, in your beginnings of SVG.

However, If you want to go in this direction, let us know, and we can go through
the steps to get there.

Regards,

Francis



--- In svg-developers@ yahoogroups. com, "c_p47@..." <c_p47@...> wrote:

>

> Hi there.  I'm a newbie so I apologize in advance for any errors in my lingo
or if my questions are basic.

>

> I have an svg file i created in illustrator.  it contains various shapes
representing buildings.  on top of the base shapes i have added text/labels to
help identify the buildings.  I need a way to automatically "zoom" in on a
particular shape when the user either clicks or mouses over it.  i need the
shape and the text to grow / zoom together.

>

> The two approaches I've been reviewing are the <animate width> and the
<animateTransform transform="scale" > options.

> I'm not sure which one is better.  The animate width seems more intuitive but
apparently only works with shapes that inherently have a width / height
property.  I haven't been able to get it work for me because the text / label
inside the rectangles.  I've tried grouping it and then animating the group. 
but that doesn't seem to work.

> I've also played around with illustrator to combine the text and rectangle
into one shape (effectively creating one path tag) but i can't animate that
either using <animate width>

> I guess I'm looking for confirmation here that this can't be accomplished.

>

> i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap my
head around what transform(x, y) is really doing.  if this is a good route to
go, can anyone point me to a good article describing this?

>

> alternatively, if you have a better idea on how to accomplish this using a
different method, i'm all ears.

>

> thanks.

>





























       __________________________________________________________________
Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new
Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at
http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> i think you have to do something else too to make it stay in the same
> location, but only grow.


Indeed. During the scale operation, the origin (0,0) stays in place. So you
have to change the coordinate system by centering your object (i.e nesting
your objects in a <g> element that you translate)

Have a look at http://www.codedread.com/menu.svg 's code :

<g id="centered_icon" transform="translate(-64,-64)">


HTH


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK,

Place a circle inside an svg element, contained within the SVG document, as
follows:

<svg id="circleSvg" viewBox="0 0 300 300" >
<circle  onclick="makeBig(evt)" cx="150" cy="150" r="50" fill="red"/>
</svg>

use the function below to increase it by 2X, keeping it 'centered' at its
current location:
function makeBig(evt)
{
	 var circle=evt.target
	 circleSvg.setAttribute("viewBox","75 75 150 150")
}


Can you try the above? I don't know how much knowledge you have relative to
javascript and getting DOM references to SVG elements, so if you need further
clarification, let us know.

Regards,
Franics


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, C P <c_p47@...> wrote:
>
> yes, i'd be interested in finding out more about how to follow your
suggestion. 
>
> --- On Fri, 10/2/09, FrancisH <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>>
>                   SVG animation is somewhat limited when dynamically
manipulating SVG elements. If you are familiar with Javascript and its
programming interfaces to the DOM, then typically this is the direction to go
for dynamic SVG.
>
>
>
> In the case of your need as 'zooming in' to an element would be accomplished
programmably by:
>
> 1. Place the element in a <g> or <svg> container and include a
>
> viewBox attribute
>
> 2. User selection for zoom in/out would adjust the viewBox attribute values.
>

Further to my last message i found this example online.  I replaced the default
rectangle with a shape that i'd actually be using.  My problem is that when i
try this in IE 7, the shape actually disappears off the page.  ideally, what i
want to accomplish is what happens when you right click on a shape and choose
the "zoom in" option from the context menu.  And then after a few seconds, have
an automatic zoom out take place.

If that's not possible, i guess i'll continue to play around with javascript.
here's what i've tried so far:
<?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>

<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 20010904//EN"

"http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-SVG-20010904/DTD/svg10.dtd">

<svg id="SVG" width="" height="" onload="Initialize(evt)">

<script type="text/javascript">

<![CDATA[

var SVGRoot;

var MyRect;

var ProduceStorageBarnGroup;

var SVGDoc;

var ZoomFactor = 1.5;

var Growing = true;

window.status = ZoomFactor;



function Initialize(evt){

SVGDoc = evt.getTarget().getOwnerDocument();

SVGRoot = SVGDoc.getDocumentElement();

MyRect = SVGDoc.getElementById("MyRect");

SVGDoc.getElementById("SVG").addEventListener("click", ZoomOnClick, false);



MyRect = SVGDoc.getElementById("MyRect");

SVGDoc.getElementById("SVG").addEventListener("click", ZoomOnClick, false);



ProduceStorageBarnGroup = SVGDoc.getElementById("ProduceStorageBarnGroup");

SVGDoc.getElementById("SVG").addEventListener("click", ZoomOnClick, false);



}



function ZoomOnClick(evt){

alert(SVGRoot.currentScale);

if (SVGRoot.currentScale > 20)

{ Growing = false;



  } // end if

else if (SVGRoot.currentScale < 0.1 )

  {

  Growing = true;

  } // end else



if (Growing == true){

ZoomFactor = ZoomFactor * 1.5}

else

{ ZoomFactor = ZoomFactor * 0.5;

}



SVGRoot.setCurrentScale(ZoomFactor);

window.status = SVGRoot.currentScale;



} // End function ZoomOnClick()

]]>

</script>

<text x="20" y="20" style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; fill:red;

stroke:none">

Click this text or the rectangle and watch our size change

</text>

<!-- <rect id="MyRect" x="75" y="75" width="300" height="150" style="fill:red;

opacity:0.4"/> -->



<g id="ProduceStorageBarnGroup">

             <g id="ProduceStorageBarn">

                         <polyline fill="#6699CC" stroke="#FFFFFF"
stroke-width="0.7087" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-linejoin="round" points="

                                     191.316,289.564 191.328,284.438
204.949,284.455 204.94,289.7 207.768,289.704 207.75,297.644 204.923,297.642
204.905,305.521

                                     191.281,305.508 191.296,298.963
188.57,298.962 188.589,289.561 191.316,289.564                      "/>

             </g>

             <g id="TextBarnPSB">

                         <text transform="matrix(1.0749 0 0 1 193.02 299.2559)"
fill="#333333" font-family="'MyriadPro-Regular'" font-size="3.1631">BARN</text>

             </g>

             <g id="TextStoragePSB">

                         <text transform="matrix(1.0749 0 0 1 193.02 295.7725)"
fill="#333333" font-family="'MyriadPro-Regular'"
font-size="3.1631">STORAGE</text>

             </g>

             <g id="TextProduce">

                         <text transform="matrix(1.0749 0 0 1 193.02 292.29)"
fill="#333333" font-family="'MyriadPro-Regular'"
font-size="3.1631">PRODUCE</text>

             </g>

</g>

</svg>



--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> SVG animation is somewhat limited when dynamically manipulating SVG elements.
If you are familiar with Javascript and its programming interfaces to the DOM,
then typically this is the direction to go for dynamic SVG.
>
> In the case of your need as 'zooming in' to an element would be accomplished
programmably by:
> 1. Place the element in a <g> or <svg> container and include a
> viewBox attribute
> 2. User selection for zoom in/out would adjust the viewBox attribute values.
>
> I guess this may be a bit much at this time, in your beginnings of SVG.
> However, If you want to go in this direction, let us know, and we can go
through the steps to get there.
> Regards,
> Francis
>
>
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "c_p47@" <c_p47@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi there.  I'm a newbie so I apologize in advance for any errors in my lingo
or if my questions are basic.
> >
> > I have an svg file i created in illustrator.  it contains various shapes
representing buildings.  on top of the base shapes i have added text/labels to
help identify the buildings.  I need a way to automatically "zoom" in on a
particular shape when the user either clicks or mouses over it.  i need the
shape and the text to grow / zoom together.
> >
> > The two approaches I've been reviewing are the <animate width> and the
<animateTransform transform="scale"> options.
> > I'm not sure which one is better.  The animate width seems more intuitive
but apparently only works with shapes that inherently have a width / height
property.  I haven't been able to get it work for me because the text / label
inside the rectangles.  I've tried grouping it and then animating the group. 
but that doesn't seem to work.
> > I've also played around with illustrator to combine the text and rectangle
into one shape (effectively creating one path tag) but i can't animate that
either using <animate width>
> > I guess I'm looking for confirmation here that this can't be accomplished.
> >
> > i've started looking at the animateTransform option but I can't quite wrap
my head around what transform(x,y) is really doing.  if this is a good route to
go, can anyone point me to a good article describing this?
> >
> > alternatively, if you have a better idea on how to accomplish this using a
different method, i'm all ears.
> >
> > thanks.
> >
>

This should help. Use IE with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.

html file:
<html>
<body onLoad=initSVG()>
<embed id="svgEmbed" src="animatingShapes.svg"style='width:300;height:300;'
type="image/svg+xml">
</embed>
</body>
<script>
var docSVG=null
var mySVG=null
var circleSvg=null
function initSVG()
{
	 docSVG=document.embeds["svgEmbed"].getSVGDocument();
	 mySVG=docSVG.documentElement
	 circleSvg=docSVG.getElementById("circleSvg")
}

function makeBig(evt)
{
	 var circle=evt.target
	 circleSvg.setAttribute("viewBox","75 75 150 150")
}
</script>
</html>

animatingShapes.svg:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<svg width="300" height="300"   viewBox="0 0 300 300">
<rect  x="0" y="0" width="300" height="300" fill="blue" stroke="none" />
<svg id="circleSvg" viewBox="0 0 300 300" >
<circle  onclick="makeBig(evt)" cx="150" cy="150" r="50" fill="red"/>
</svg>
</svg>



--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> OK,
>
> Place a circle inside an svg element, contained within the SVG document, as
follows:
>
> <svg id="circleSvg" viewBox="0 0 300 300" >
> <circle  onclick="makeBig(evt)" cx="150" cy="150" r="50" fill="red"/>
> </svg>
>
> use the function below to increase it by 2X, keeping it 'centered' at its
current location:
> function makeBig(evt)
> {
>  var circle=evt.target
>  circleSvg.setAttribute("viewBox","75 75 150 150")
> }
>
>
> Can you try the above? I don't know how much knowledge you have relative to
javascript and getting DOM references to SVG elements, so if you need further
clarification, let us know.
>
> Regards,
> Franics
>

I was interrupted before being able to send this, so David came first.  But
anyway:

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "c_p47@..." <c_p47@...> wrote:
>
>
> i've tried something similar but i think you have to do something else too to
make it stay in the same location, but only grow.  when i use the
animateTransform, my shape actually moves across the page for some reason.


This is is because scaling takes place relative to the origin (initially the
upper left corner with x=0/y=0).  The origin stays in the same location when
scaling (it's the same when rotating, by the way).  If you want your building to
stay in the same location, it must be on top of the origin.  As you wouldn't
want to move the building to this point, you need to "artificially" move the
point x=0/y=0 to the center of the building.  Sounds strange at first, but once
you get accustomed to the concept of transformations, it's like a natural thing
to do.

Say you have this SVG:


<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">

<svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
   <rect x="150" y="130" width="80" height="40" />
</svg>


You would like the center of the recangle, i.e. x=190/y=150, to become the
origin.  This is done by moving the whole "sheet of paper" until the origin
comes to lie where you want it.  For this, the transform attribute is used like
'transform="translate(190,150)"'.  Of course together with the "paper" we're
also moving the rectangle, so we must move it back to its original position by
substracting 190 and 150 from its original coordinates.  What we're getting is
the following:


<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">

<svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
   <rect transform="translate(190,150)" x="-40" y="-20" width="80" height="40" />
</svg>


This gives us the same result as before.  But now we can use David's animation
code.  (I moved the transform attribute to a parent <g> element because the
animation modifies the transform attribute and seems not only to have an
influence on the scale value but will also reset the translate values to 0,0. 
Maybe the experts can comment on this.)


<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN"
   "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">

<svg version="1.1" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
   <g transform="translate(190,150)">
   <rect x="-40" y="-20" width="80" height="40">
     <animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale"
       from="1" to="1.5" dur="0.25s" begin="mouseover" fill="freeze" />
     <animateTransform attributeName="transform" type="scale"
       from="1.5" to="1" dur="0.2s" begin="mouseout" fill="freeze" />
   </rect>
   </g>
</svg>


Hope I could make things a bit clearer.

Thomas W.

VTD-XML 2.7 is released and can be downloaded at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/vtd-xml/files/

Below is a summary of what are the new features and enhancements.

Expanded VTD-XML's Core API

* VTDNav: toStringUpperCase, toStringLowerCase, contains(), endsWith(),
startsWith()
* Extended VTD added in-memory buffer support

Improved Xpath

* added the following XPath 2.0 functions: abs(), ends-with(), upper-case(),
lower-case()
* added support for variable reference
* significantly enhanced XPath syntax, checking error reporting (Special
thanks to Mark Swanson)
* Internal performance tuning

Bug fixes and Code Enhancement

* C version significantly removed warning message, fix memory leak during
Xpath expression parsing,
* Various bug fies (Special thanks to Jon Roberts, John Zhu, Matej Spiller,
Steve Polson, and Romain La Tellier)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Provide a Journey into a Scalable Vector Image.
Apply the powerful native scalability of SVG to its fullest advantage.
Create imagery that flows inward.
Build SVG elements at micro scale, enhanced to selectively display when 
traveling into SVG micro space.

   Place the smile on the flea on the hair on the wart of the frog on the bump on
the log in the bottom of the sea...

This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is included. Any
feedback will be appreciated. This online application requires Internet Explorer
with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.

See: http://www.SVGdiscovery.com

Thanks,
Francis

Hi Francis,

I'm sorry but I'm not able to try your app since I'm using OSX.  Do you require
features supported in ASV and not available in browsers that support SVG?

If not, I am surprised that you would design your app to require an obsolete
plugin when there are so many other options these days.  Maybe you can design
first for standards-compliant browsers and require Chrome Frame for IE users (or
use SVG Web)?

Regards,
Jeff

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> Provide a Journey into a Scalable Vector Image.
> Apply the powerful native scalability of SVG to its fullest advantage.
> Create imagery that flows inward.
> Build SVG elements at micro scale, enhanced to selectively display when 
traveling into SVG micro space.
>
>   Place the smile on the flea on the hair on the wart of the frog on the bump
on the log in the bottom of the sea...
>
> This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is included.
Any feedback will be appreciated. This online application requires Internet
Explorer with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.
>
> See: http://www.SVGdiscovery.com
>
> Thanks,
> Francis
>

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the feedback. All current options cannot yet touch the dynamic SVG
performance I require, than that of the IE/ASV package.
Regards,
Francis

<jeff_schiller@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Francis,
>
> I'm sorry but I'm not able to try your app since I'm using OSX.  Do you
require features supported in ASV and not available in browsers that support
SVG?
>
> If not, I am surprised that you would design your app to require an obsolete
plugin when there are so many other options these days.  Maybe you can design
first for standards-compliant browsers and require Chrome Frame for IE users (or
use SVG Web)?
>
> Regards,
> Jeff

Another good article from yesterday:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10365636-264.html

I wrote the following blog post on the Google Code blog yesterday as well
concerning some of the work we've been doing:

http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/10/svg-at-google-and-in-internet-explorer.ht\
ml

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@...> wrote:

>
>
> Did anyone notice Paul Krill in the audience yesterday? I believe he was
> hear for the keynotes and left about 11am.
>
>
> http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346
>
> *InfoWorld Home* <http://infoworld.com/> /
*Applications*<http://infoworld.com/d/applications>/
> *News* <http://infoworld.com/d/applications/news> / Google to Microsoft:
> Support SVG
> October 02, 2009
> *Google to Microsoft: Support SVG*
> *Internet Explorer is lone holdout in backing W3C specification for
> high-quality, interactive Web graphics using XML, Google official stresses
> at conference*
> By *Paul Krill* <http://infoworld.com/author-bios/paul-krill> | *InfoWorld
> * <http://www.infoworld.com/>
> *Share or Email*
> | *Print* <http://infoworld.com/print/94346> | *Add a
comment*<http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346#ta\
lkback>|
>
> *14
Recommendations*<http://infoworld.com/vote_up_down/node/94346/1/vote?destination\
=node%2F94346?r=206>
>
> The SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) specification may be experiencing a
> renaissance, but it would sure be helpful if Microsoft's Internet Explorer
> browser supported SVG, a Google official argued at a technical conference on
> Friday.
>
> SVG is a World Wide Web Consortium specification for high-quality,
> interactive graphics on the Web using XML. Other browsers such as Mozilla
> Firefox and Opera support it, said Brad Neuberg, a developer advocate at
> Google and a member of the Open Web Advocacy group. "I think SVG has a
> really special history," he said at the *SVG Open
2009*<http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/google-gather-svg-boosters-990>\
conference at Google offices in Mountain View, Calif. "I'm just blown away
> by the kind of level of passion and the level of commitment."
>
> *[ Also on InfoWorld: **Could HTML 5 kill Flash and
Silverlight?*<http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/html-5-could-it-kill-fl\
ash-and-silverlight-291?source=fssr>
> * | Cut straight to the key news for technology development and IT
> management with our once-a-day summary of the top tech news. Subscribe to
> the **InfoWorld Daily
newsletter*<http://www.infoworld.com/newsletters/subscribe?showlist=infoworld_da\
ily&source=fssr>
> *. ]*
>
> "Folks want to be able to do drawing on the Web. They want SVG and Canvas.
> There's a clear market demand, so developers want this," said Neuberg.
>
> A renaissance is happening with SVG similar to what happened with DHTML,
> Neuberg said. Hindering progress, however, is a lack of native support for
> the standard in IE. Developers, Neuberg said, have had to use a workaround:
> SVG Web, a JavaScript library enabling use of SVG in Internet Explorer and
> other browsers.
>
> But SVG Web is limited, according to Neuberg: "SVG Web, it's not a 'Get Out
> of Jail Free' card for IE. The library will always be slower than native
> support."
>
> Microsoft had two representatives at the event Friday, a move lauded by
> Neuberg. "I really respect that they came to the conference this year" and
> are having a dialog, he said.
>
> One of Microsoft's reps, IE software architect Ted Johnson, said the
> company would not be announcing anything at the event about future versions
> of the browser. "We're just here to listen and learn," he said.
>
> SVG, Johnson said, grew out of proposals from Microsoft and Adobe.
> Microsoft has supported vector graphics via Vector Markup Language (VML), he
> said, but he gave a nod to SVG.
>
> "SVG's coming of age," Johnson said.
>
> Microsoft's lack of SVG support in IE is a problem, said conference
> attendee Greg Sterndale, senior software engineer at Plectix.
>
> "But it sounds like the guys at Google have done a lot of work, and the
> community's done a lot of work to find a way around that for now. I think
> that in the future, IE is definitely going to be supporting it," Sterndale
> said.
>
> Also backing SVG was a presenter from Wikimedia Foundation, maker of the
> Wikipedia Web site.
>
> "We've been using SVG very heavily on Wikipedia because it gives us a
> standard format for graphics, which can be edited by multiple people," said
> Brion Vibber, CTO of the foundation. He added that browser support is up to
> snuff on pretty much every browser but IE, though SVG Web helps.
>
> "Until we have native support in IE, we have something almost as good,"
> Vibber said.
>
> Neuberg said Canvas 2-D Web drawing capability is also sought for IE.
> Canvas is part of the HTML 5 specification, of which Google is a big
> supporter.
>
> Neuberg cited multiple benefits of SVG.
>
> "SVG is very searchable," Neuberg added, acknowledging that Google is a
> search company. Also, he noted, SVG is easy to import and export.
>
> "You don't get trapped into any [specific] tool and it's also very
> server-friendly" when working with -- for example -- PHP scripts, Neuberg
> said. Google's Visualization API supports SVG as well. "This is a perfect
> use case for SVG," he said.
>
> Paul Krill is an editor at large at InfoWorld.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks for sharing the links - can we put them up on the SVG Open webpage
(news section)?

andreas


On Sat, October 3, 2009 7:57 pm, Bradley Neuberg wrote:
> Another good article from yesterday:
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10365636-264.html
>
> I wrote the following blog post on the Google Code blog yesterday as well
> concerning some of the work we've been doing:
>
>
http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/10/svg-at-google-and-in-internet-explorer.ht\
ml
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Did anyone notice Paul Krill in the audience yesterday? I believe he was
>> hear for the keynotes and left about 11am.
>>
>>
>> http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346
>>
>> *InfoWorld Home* <http://infoworld.com/> /
>> *Applications*<http://infoworld.com/d/applications>/
>> *News* <http://infoworld.com/d/applications/news> / Google to Microsoft:
>> Support SVG
>> October 02, 2009
>> *Google to Microsoft: Support SVG*
>> *Internet Explorer is lone holdout in backing W3C specification for
>> high-quality, interactive Web graphics using XML, Google official
>> stresses
>> at conference*
>> By *Paul Krill* <http://infoworld.com/author-bios/paul-krill> |
>> *InfoWorld
>> * <http://www.infoworld.com/>
>> *Share or Email*
>> | *Print* <http://infoworld.com/print/94346> | *Add a
>>
comment*<http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346#ta\
lkback>|
>>
>> *14
>>
Recommendations*<http://infoworld.com/vote_up_down/node/94346/1/vote?destination\
=node%2F94346?r=206>
>>
>> The SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) specification may be experiencing a
>> renaissance, but it would sure be helpful if Microsoft's Internet
>> Explorer
>> browser supported SVG, a Google official argued at a technical
>> conference on
>> Friday.
>>
>> SVG is a World Wide Web Consortium specification for high-quality,
>> interactive graphics on the Web using XML. Other browsers such as
>> Mozilla
>> Firefox and Opera support it, said Brad Neuberg, a developer advocate at
>> Google and a member of the Open Web Advocacy group. "I think SVG has a
>> really special history," he said at the *SVG Open
>>
2009*<http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/google-gather-svg-boosters-990>\
conference
>> at Google offices in Mountain View, Calif. "I'm just blown away
>> by the kind of level of passion and the level of commitment."
>>
>> *[ Also on InfoWorld: **Could HTML 5 kill Flash and
>>
Silverlight?*<http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/html-5-could-it-kill-fl\
ash-and-silverlight-291?source=fssr>
>> * | Cut straight to the key news for technology development and IT
>> management with our once-a-day summary of the top tech news. Subscribe
>> to
>> the **InfoWorld Daily
>>
newsletter*<http://www.infoworld.com/newsletters/subscribe?showlist=infoworld_da\
ily&source=fssr>
>> *. ]*
>>
>> "Folks want to be able to do drawing on the Web. They want SVG and
>> Canvas.
>> There's a clear market demand, so developers want this," said Neuberg.
>>
>> A renaissance is happening with SVG similar to what happened with DHTML,
>> Neuberg said. Hindering progress, however, is a lack of native support
>> for
>> the standard in IE. Developers, Neuberg said, have had to use a
>> workaround:
>> SVG Web, a JavaScript library enabling use of SVG in Internet Explorer
>> and
>> other browsers.
>>
>> But SVG Web is limited, according to Neuberg: "SVG Web, it's not a 'Get
>> Out
>> of Jail Free' card for IE. The library will always be slower than native
>> support."
>>
>> Microsoft had two representatives at the event Friday, a move lauded by
>> Neuberg. "I really respect that they came to the conference this year"
>> and
>> are having a dialog, he said.
>>
>> One of Microsoft's reps, IE software architect Ted Johnson, said the
>> company would not be announcing anything at the event about future
>> versions
>> of the browser. "We're just here to listen and learn," he said.
>>
>> SVG, Johnson said, grew out of proposals from Microsoft and Adobe.
>> Microsoft has supported vector graphics via Vector Markup Language
>> (VML), he
>> said, but he gave a nod to SVG.
>>
>> "SVG's coming of age," Johnson said.
>>
>> Microsoft's lack of SVG support in IE is a problem, said conference
>> attendee Greg Sterndale, senior software engineer at Plectix.
>>
>> "But it sounds like the guys at Google have done a lot of work, and the
>> community's done a lot of work to find a way around that for now. I
>> think
>> that in the future, IE is definitely going to be supporting it,"
>> Sterndale
>> said.
>>
>> Also backing SVG was a presenter from Wikimedia Foundation, maker of the
>> Wikipedia Web site.
>>
>> "We've been using SVG very heavily on Wikipedia because it gives us a
>> standard format for graphics, which can be edited by multiple people,"
>> said
>> Brion Vibber, CTO of the foundation. He added that browser support is up
>> to
>> snuff on pretty much every browser but IE, though SVG Web helps.
>>
>> "Until we have native support in IE, we have something almost as good,"
>> Vibber said.
>>
>> Neuberg said Canvas 2-D Web drawing capability is also sought for IE.
>> Canvas is part of the HTML 5 specification, of which Google is a big
>> supporter.
>>
>> Neuberg cited multiple benefits of SVG.
>>
>> "SVG is very searchable," Neuberg added, acknowledging that Google is a
>> search company. Also, he noted, SVG is easy to import and export.
>>
>> "You don't get trapped into any [specific] tool and it's also very
>> server-friendly" when working with -- for example -- PHP scripts,
>> Neuberg
>> said. Google's Visualization API supports SVG as well. "This is a
>> perfect
>> use case for SVG," he said.
>>
>> Paul Krill is an editor at large at InfoWorld.
>>
>>
>


--
Andreas Neumann
http://www.carto.net/neumann/
http://www.svgopen.org/

Hi Andreas,
Golly, SVG has arrived. I can hardly believe it. I'm happy for myself, of
course, but most pleased for guys like you who built the foundation for its
success.
Francis

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <a.neumann@...> wrote:
>
> thanks for sharing the links - can we put them up on the SVG Open webpage
> (news section)?
>
> andreas
>
>

Sure!

On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Andreas Neumann <a.neumann@...>wrote:

> thanks for sharing the links - can we put them up on the SVG Open webpage
> (news section)?
>
> andreas
>
>
> On Sat, October 3, 2009 7:57 pm, Bradley Neuberg wrote:
> > Another good article from yesterday:
> >
> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10365636-264.html
> >
> > I wrote the following blog post on the Google Code blog yesterday as well
> > concerning some of the work we've been doing:
> >
> >
>
http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/10/svg-at-google-and-in-internet-explorer.ht\
ml
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Did anyone notice Paul Krill in the audience yesterday? I believe he was
> >> hear for the keynotes and left about 11am.
> >>
> >>
> >> http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346
> >>
> >> *InfoWorld Home* <http://infoworld.com/> /
> >> *Applications*<http://infoworld.com/d/applications>/
> >> *News* <http://infoworld.com/d/applications/news> / Google to
> Microsoft:
> >> Support SVG
> >> October 02, 2009
> >> *Google to Microsoft: Support SVG*
> >> *Internet Explorer is lone holdout in backing W3C specification for
> >> high-quality, interactive Web graphics using XML, Google official
> >> stresses
> >> at conference*
> >> By *Paul Krill* <http://infoworld.com/author-bios/paul-krill> |
> >> *InfoWorld
> >> * <http://www.infoworld.com/>
> >> *Share or Email*
> >> | *Print* <http://infoworld.com/print/94346> | *Add a
> >> comment*<
> http://infoworld.com/d/applications/google-microsoft-support-svg-346#talkback
> >|
> >>
> >> *14
> >> Recommendations*<
>
http://infoworld.com/vote_up_down/node/94346/1/vote?destination=node%2F94346?r=2\
06
> >
> >>
> >> The SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) specification may be experiencing a
> >> renaissance, but it would sure be helpful if Microsoft's Internet
> >> Explorer
> >> browser supported SVG, a Google official argued at a technical
> >> conference on
> >> Friday.
> >>
> >> SVG is a World Wide Web Consortium specification for high-quality,
> >> interactive graphics on the Web using XML. Other browsers such as
> >> Mozilla
> >> Firefox and Opera support it, said Brad Neuberg, a developer advocate at
> >> Google and a member of the Open Web Advocacy group. "I think SVG has a
> >> really special history," he said at the *SVG Open
> >> 2009*<
> http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/google-gather-svg-boosters-990
> >conference
> >> at Google offices in Mountain View, Calif. "I'm just blown away
> >> by the kind of level of passion and the level of commitment."
> >>
> >> *[ Also on InfoWorld: **Could HTML 5 kill Flash and
> >> Silverlight?*<
>
http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/html-5-could-it-kill-flash-and-silver\
light-291?source=fssr
> >
> >> * | Cut straight to the key news for technology development and IT
> >> management with our once-a-day summary of the top tech news. Subscribe
> >> to
> >> the **InfoWorld Daily
> >> newsletter*<
>
http://www.infoworld.com/newsletters/subscribe?showlist=infoworld_daily&source=f\
ssr
> >
> >> *. ]*
> >>
> >> "Folks want to be able to do drawing on the Web. They want SVG and
> >> Canvas.
> >> There's a clear market demand, so developers want this," said Neuberg.
> >>
> >> A renaissance is happening with SVG similar to what happened with DHTML,
> >> Neuberg said. Hindering progress, however, is a lack of native support
> >> for
> >> the standard in IE. Developers, Neuberg said, have had to use a
> >> workaround:
> >> SVG Web, a JavaScript library enabling use of SVG in Internet Explorer
> >> and
> >> other browsers.
> >>
> >> But SVG Web is limited, according to Neuberg: "SVG Web, it's not a 'Get
> >> Out
> >> of Jail Free' card for IE. The library will always be slower than native
> >> support."
> >>
> >> Microsoft had two representatives at the event Friday, a move lauded by
> >> Neuberg. "I really respect that they came to the conference this year"
> >> and
> >> are having a dialog, he said.
> >>
> >> One of Microsoft's reps, IE software architect Ted Johnson, said the
> >> company would not be announcing anything at the event about future
> >> versions
> >> of the browser. "We're just here to listen and learn," he said.
> >>
> >> SVG, Johnson said, grew out of proposals from Microsoft and Adobe.
> >> Microsoft has supported vector graphics via Vector Markup Language
> >> (VML), he
> >> said, but he gave a nod to SVG.
> >>
> >> "SVG's coming of age," Johnson said.
> >>
> >> Microsoft's lack of SVG support in IE is a problem, said conference
> >> attendee Greg Sterndale, senior software engineer at Plectix.
> >>
> >> "But it sounds like the guys at Google have done a lot of work, and the
> >> community's done a lot of work to find a way around that for now. I
> >> think
> >> that in the future, IE is definitely going to be supporting it,"
> >> Sterndale
> >> said.
> >>
> >> Also backing SVG was a presenter from Wikimedia Foundation, maker of the
> >> Wikipedia Web site.
> >>
> >> "We've been using SVG very heavily on Wikipedia because it gives us a
> >> standard format for graphics, which can be edited by multiple people,"
> >> said
> >> Brion Vibber, CTO of the foundation. He added that browser support is up
> >> to
> >> snuff on pretty much every browser but IE, though SVG Web helps.
> >>
> >> "Until we have native support in IE, we have something almost as good,"
> >> Vibber said.
> >>
> >> Neuberg said Canvas 2-D Web drawing capability is also sought for IE.
> >> Canvas is part of the HTML 5 specification, of which Google is a big
> >> supporter.
> >>
> >> Neuberg cited multiple benefits of SVG.
> >>
> >> "SVG is very searchable," Neuberg added, acknowledging that Google is a
> >> search company. Also, he noted, SVG is easy to import and export.
> >>
> >> "You don't get trapped into any [specific] tool and it's also very
> >> server-friendly" when working with -- for example -- PHP scripts,
> >> Neuberg
> >> said. Google's Visualization API supports SVG as well. "This is a
> >> perfect
> >> use case for SVG," he said.
> >>
> >> Paul Krill is an editor at large at InfoWorld.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Andreas Neumann
> http://www.carto.net/neumann/
> http://www.svgopen.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:08:37 +0200, FrancisH <fhemsher@...> wrote:

> This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is
> included. Any feedback will be appreciated. This online application
> requires Internet Explorer with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.

Just the obvious question - what does it rely on in the Adobe viewer that
means it can't be X-platform?

cheers

Chaals

--
Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com

Hi Chaals,
Simply put, the IE/ASV allows this to be a cloud application, without the need
for the user to download an executible. The advantage is that all users
seamlessly have the most recent nightly build. ASV is a stable and hardy Add-on
needed for an SVG application such as this. It is highly advantageous for the
user, because this established executible won't be changed. Ergo, no executible
update process will be required at any time by a user. They can always be
assured that their call for the application will give them current build.
Regards,
Francis

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Charles McCathieNevile" <chaals@...>
wrote:
>
> On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:08:37 +0200, FrancisH <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> > This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is
> > included. Any feedback will be appreciated. This online application
> > requires Internet Explorer with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.
>
> Just the obvious question - what does it rely on in the Adobe viewer that
> means it can't be X-platform?
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
>      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
>

Hi Francis,

I understood your earlier comment on performance.

However, I didn't understand this one.  What you seem to be describing is what
any web app gives you already.  Are there any specific features that ASV has
that other SVG-enabled browsers do not or is it just the level of performance
that ASV provides?  For instance, do you rely on SVG Filters or SMIL Animation?

I've personally been pretty happy with performance lately on Chrome/Safari. 
Have you tried your app in these browsers?

Thanks,
Jeff

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chaals,
> Simply put, the IE/ASV allows this to be a cloud application, without the need
for the user to download an executible. The advantage is that all users
seamlessly have the most recent nightly build. ASV is a stable and hardy Add-on
needed for an SVG application such as this. It is highly advantageous for the
user, because this established executible won't be changed. Ergo, no executible
update process will be required at any time by a user. They can always be
assured that their call for the application will give them current build.
> Regards,
> Francis
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Charles McCathieNevile" <chaals@>
wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:08:37 +0200, FrancisH <fhemsher@> wrote:
> >
> > > This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is
> > > included. Any feedback will be appreciated. This online application
> > > requires Internet Explorer with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.
> >
> > Just the obvious question - what does it rely on in the Adobe viewer that
> > means it can't be X-platform?
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > Chaals
> >
> > --
> > Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
> >      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> > http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
> >
>

Hi Jeff,
There is no doubt at this time that the IE/ASV package gives the capabilities
needed for this application. Others are in development, and do not have the
stability needed to provide a solid user experience. Even with IE native support
and other browser's upgrades, this provides a substantial 2-3 year window of use
for this app.
During that time, of course, all other options will be seriously evaluated.
Regards,
Francis


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jeff_schiller" <jeff_schiller@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Francis,
>
> I understood your earlier comment on performance.
>
> However, I didn't understand this one.  What you seem to be describing is what
any web app gives you already.  Are there any specific features that ASV has
that other SVG-enabled browsers do not or is it just the level of performance
that ASV provides?  For instance, do you rely on SVG Filters or SMIL Animation?
>
> I've personally been pretty happy with performance lately on Chrome/Safari. 
Have you tried your app in these browsers?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chaals,
> > Simply put, the IE/ASV allows this to be a cloud application, without the
need for the user to download an executible. The advantage is that all users
seamlessly have the most recent nightly build. ASV is a stable and hardy Add-on
needed for an SVG application such as this. It is highly advantageous for the
user, because this established executible won't be changed. Ergo, no executible
update process will be required at any time by a user. They can always be
assured that their call for the application will give them current build.
> > Regards,
> > Francis
> >
> > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Charles McCathieNevile" <chaals@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 13:08:37 +0200, FrancisH <fhemsher@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This application is currently in Beta. A problem report feature is
> > > > included. Any feedback will be appreciated. This online application
> > > > requires Internet Explorer with the Adobe SVG Viewer Add-on.
> > >
> > > Just the obvious question - what does it rely on in the Adobe viewer that
> > > means it can't be X-platform?
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > > Chaals
> > >
> > > --
> > > Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
> > >      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> > > http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
> > >
> >
>

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:12:00 +0200, FrancisH <fhemsher@...> wrote:

> Hi Chaals,
> Simply put, the IE/ASV allows this to be a cloud application, without
> the need for the user to download an executible. The advantage is that
> all users seamlessly have the most recent nightly build. ASV is a stable
> and hardy Add-on needed for an SVG application such as this. It is
> highly advantageous for the user, because this established executible
> won't be changed. Ergo, no executible update process will be required at
> any time by a user. They can always be assured that their call for the
> application will give them current build.

Well, if it makes sense to you. It seems to me that you are asking people
to download something that hasn't had as much as a security update for
years, rejecting anyone who has an up-to-date piece of software, and
heavily discouraging anyone building a modern high-quality SVG viewer from
even considering supporting, let alone promoting, your application.

We all have our own motivations, but like Jeff, the fact that you actively
shut out any SVG implementation running on my OS makes your request for
review a bit less interesting, and your product totally irrelevant. This
is a shame, because I am looking for more and better answers to the
question "is there a good-quality free SVG generator". So I go back to
Sketsa and Inkscape as the two that I know - each with its own advantages
and disadvantages.

cheers

Chaals

--
Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com

I fired up my Windows VM, disabled Google Chrome Frame and downloaded ASV.  From
what I could tell there shouldn't be any performance bottlenecks in any of the
browsers for SVGdiscovery - but I didn't explore the tool that heavily.  Can you
elaborate on what dynamic SVG things you're trying to do that hit a bottleneck
on, say, Chrome or Opera?

Btw, I am one of the lead developers on SVG-edit [1], an open source vector
graphics editor in a browser.  These projects look very similar, though SVG-edit
is missing some of the features in SVGdiscovery.

What is the model of your application (open source, planned commercial service,
etc)?

In SVG-edit we are currently working on the zoom feature, curved paths, layers,
etc - there are still some bugs left but it seems to work very well,
performance-wise.

Some feedback:  SVGdiscovery seems like a promising tool, there seems to be lots
of functionality.  I don't really like your selection model as much as I like
SVG-edit's.  I also think your zoom leveling feature was confusing (I didn't
really read that much on it or look at the demo, sorry but was confused why the
sliders didn't move).  I also didn't understand why the UI was so tiny (it's a
small box on my browser).  I hope this feedback helps you.

From a deployment perspective, our model has been agile (i.e. the trunk of the
project is relatively stable, but can have bugs).  So what we do is have a
'stable' tag that always points at the last fully tested, stable release (2.3
currently) and then the trunk (2.4-alpha) can be used for open source
collaborative development of new features without impacting those people who
want to rely on stability (but still giving early access to the trunk to anyone
interested).  That perspective may help you in the future with SVGdiscovery.

As for standards-compliancy, it seems maybe we took the opposite approach that
you did:  we coded for standards-compliant browsers (of which there are many
now) and we didn't worry about Internet Explorer (my plan was to eventually use
SVG Web when it supported everything we needed).  Then, a week or so ago Google
released the Chrome Frame plugin which completely solved our IE problem now. I'm
quite happy about all the alternative solutions for SVG-in-IE now.

Unless you rely on SVG Filters and complex SMIL Animation, my FIRM belief is
that it is now time full-stop work on Adobe SVG Viewer and let that
non-supported plugin die, migrating existing content to standards-compliant
markup and script as quickly as possible.

Regards,
Jeff Schiller

[1] http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> Thanks for the feedback. All current options cannot yet touch the dynamic SVG
performance I require, than that of the IE/ASV package.
> Regards,
> Francis
>
> <jeff_schiller@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Francis,
> >
> > I'm sorry but I'm not able to try your app since I'm using OSX.  Do you
require features supported in ASV and not available in browsers that support
SVG?
> >
> > If not, I am surprised that you would design your app to require an obsolete
plugin when there are so many other options these days.  Maybe you can design
first for standards-compliant browsers and require Chrome Frame for IE users (or
use SVG Web)?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff
>

Hi Francis,

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "FrancisH" <fhemsher@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
> There is no doubt at this time that the IE/ASV package gives the capabilities
needed for this application.

Yes, I am not questioning the capabilities of ASV - only its relevancy in the
ecosystem.


> Others are in development, and do not have the stability needed to provide a
solid user experience. Even with IE native support and other browser's upgrades,
this provides a substantial 2-3 year window of use for this app.

We may have to agree to totally disagree on this one - but can you provide any
examples of capabilities or issues that were showstoppers for you or did you
just not consider the browsers?  I have not seen any for SVG-edit (though we are
not using SMIL or Filters yet).

Regards,
Jeff

Hi Israel,

This looks like great stuff - will make sure I find time to read it once SVG
Open is done.  Hope you will consider presenting something next year!

Jeff

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "israel_eisenberg" <owlgems@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just completed second of two articles:
>
> Tubefy Explained, part I: Lerping Colors
> http://owl3d.com/svg/tubefy/articles/article1.html
>
> Tubefy Explained, part II: Rounding Colors
> http://owl3d.com/svg/tubefy/articles/article2.html
>
> Next article: Variable Stroke Width.
>
> Hope you enjoy,
>
> Israel
>