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Re: [syndication] Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #397 of 4640 |
Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.

Dave Winer <dave@...> wrote:

> Aaron, I could be mistaken, but there's more going on.

Ahh, there's always more going on. :-) I think the RSS authors are trying to
create a spec that's backward-compatible, extensible and useful for future
development. And I think they've done a pretty good job. They've left open
extensibility so that you can use RSS as you wish and still be compatible.

If I understand you correctly, you want to create a set of elements for RSS
that are widely supported and you're free to do that. Just create your own
namespace and tie it into the proposal. You say namespaces are confusing,
but I have to disagree with you there. When used properly, they can actually
make XML easier to understand. Here's an example from my (proposed) content
module:

<item>
<title>The Content</title>
<link>http://example.com/content.html</link>
<content:text>This is the content.</content:xhtml>
</item>

Sure, I could have used text-content, or some such, but it works just fine
with namespaces and prevents collision with other modules. So why exactly
are you against the new proposal?

> What's the role of RDF in the proposal?

RSS is now (or once again) an RDF format, which has its benefits and
drawbacks. It does make RSS more complicated, which is a downside. However,
as R.V. Guha pointed out to me, you can easily escape from RDF if you don't
like it by using the rdf:parseType="literal" attribute. Again, I think this
is likely a best-of-both-worlds move.

--
Aaron Swartz |"This information is top security.
<http://swartzfam.com/aaron/>| When you have read it, destroy yourself."
<http://www.theinfo.org/> | - Marshall McLuhan




Wed Aug 16, 2000 6:03 pm

aswartz@...
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Message #397 of 4640 |
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Aaron, I could be mistaken, but there's more going on. What's the role of RDF in the proposal? Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
5:38 pm

... Ahh, there's always more going on. :-) I think the RSS authors are trying to create a spec that's backward-compatible, extensible and useful for future ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
6:04 pm

... Oops, so sorry, I meant Gabe Beged-Dov -- brain freeze today. My apologies! -- Aaron Swartz |"This information is top security. ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
6:08 pm

... I think the key issue here is that sometimes, adding a little bit of complexity up front actually simplifies things down the road. Yes, namespaces are...
Eric Bohlman
ebohlman@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:18 pm

Couldn't agree more. ... That's the point I wanted to make in my previous posting in much less words. And again, namespaces are not that hard. Even using them...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:25 pm

... RSS ... actually ... So, Aaron, because we disagree you get to make the rules? So sad it comes to this. If you'd stop and think you'd realize there's a ...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
6:12 pm

... Huh? I don't understand. The RSS 1.0 people have created a new spec, that's open, where everyone can play and add what they wish. You're welcome to play ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
6:30 pm

... Hi Dave, Your statement (above) works both ways. IMHO, Aaron even gave an example to illustrate why he thinks that way. It seems to me that he is trying to...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:17 pm

Aaron, I wrote a whole essay about this just this morning. http://www.egroups.com/message/syndication/386 Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
6:47 pm

... I've read that Dave (and a whole lot more of the history), but I still don't understand. If you're worried that people are all going to go off and create ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:00 pm

The solution is to create a collegial atmosphere, where if iSyndicate says "this is a good idea" we document it, and make it an optional element in RSS 1.0....
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:06 pm

... How is this different from the module adoption system that Rael introduced? The only difference I see is that we're using namespaces. My apologies if I...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:10 pm

Aaron: I have an idea. Could you prepare a RSS "1.0" version of this file? http://static.userland.com/gems/backend/sampleRss.xml Let's do an A-B comparison. ...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:20 pm

... Sure Dave! It was really easy, because there's an online RSS 0.9 -> 1.0 converter by Jonathan "Not-So-Desperate Perl Hacker" Eisenzopf. :-) ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:34 pm

... <code snipped> I think the entire idea of namespaces takes a vastly simple and elegant idea and complicates it for what appears to be no real benefit. ...
zac
zac@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:15 pm

... I think there's a misunderstanding here -- the namespaces are only optional additions -- you can completely ignore them if you don't want to parse them, ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:27 pm

... I'll test it this afternoon to see. ... Kidding aside I think this is a actually a bit of an important point. I would hope that when people look at...
zac
zac@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:55 pm

... I totally agree -- this is a very important point. Many languages have XML parsers but many don't. Sometimes we forget that. Thanks for keeping us on our...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
9:14 pm

Hi, That's why we spent so much time examining each change for backward compatibility. When I'm not participating in online discussions ;-) I'm hacking code...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
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Aug 16, 2000
9:19 pm

... But Rael, it breaks my regexp: foreach {<item>(.*?)</item>} { <link>.*?</link> <title>.*?</title> etc. } Adding attributes, etc. breaks...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
9:30 pm

... If there is a substantial "lightweight/no parser" lobby, why XML at all? Surely formalizing some sort of lightweight text format, perhaps name-value pairs...
Dan Lyke
danlyke@...
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Aug 17, 2000
3:49 pm

A lot of you have asked me if I could send them the ASP scripts I created to parse RSS feeds into HTML, HDML, and WML. I've now posted them to the web, along...
Tristan Louis
tristan@...
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Aug 18, 2000
2:50 am

... You keep talking about "C or Java" yet there are plenty of scripting environments (I already named just three of them) that are *far* easier to use and...
Eric Bohlman
ebohlman@...
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Aug 16, 2000
11:17 pm

... I think you're missing the point. ... I was trying to say that people don't necessarily use the same tools that you all do. So talking about some great...
zac
zac@...
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Aug 17, 2000
1:59 am

Howdy, No need to do this by hand -- tools abound: ...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:42 pm

... http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2000/08/16 Dave, I'll ask you one more time. Can you please tell us what exactly is wrong with the RSS 1.0...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:50 pm

Paulo, the force comes from the choice of the RSS 1.0 name. Doesn't leave much wiggle room. Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:23 pm

Well, I am more interested in defending the principles of extensibility and namespace use (WHERE/WHEN NECESSARY) that the draft itself. I am far from knowing...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:30 pm

... RDF 1.0 is based on RDF 0.9, not 0.91, which had rdf:RDF as the root element -- so it's there for backwards-compatibility. ... Again,...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 16, 2000
8:39 pm

Let's get it on the Web so other people can have a look. Dave ... From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...> To: <syndication@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday,...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:36 pm
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