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Re: [syndication] Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #399 of 4640 |
Re: [syndication] Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.

> If I understand you correctly, you want to create a set of elements for
RSS
> that are widely supported and you're free to do that. Just create your own
> namespace and tie it into the proposal. You say namespaces are confusing,
> but I have to disagree with you there. When used properly, they can
actually
> make XML easier to understand

So, Aaron, because we disagree you get to make the rules?

So sad it comes to this. If you'd stop and think you'd realize there's a
win-win here, all it takes is a little listening and considering other
points of view.

So sad, because there will be two RSS 1.0s.

So confusing, so embarassing.

(And a waste of time!)

See you in the market.

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...>
To: <syndication@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 11:03 AM
Subject: [syndication] Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.


> Dave Winer <dave@...> wrote:
>
> > Aaron, I could be mistaken, but there's more going on.
>
> Ahh, there's always more going on. :-) I think the RSS authors are trying
to
> create a spec that's backward-compatible, extensible and useful for future
> development. And I think they've done a pretty good job. They've left open
> extensibility so that you can use RSS as you wish and still be compatible.
>
. Here's an example from my (proposed) content
> module:
>
> <item>
> <title>The Content</title>
> <link>http://example.com/content.html</link>
> <content:text>This is the content.</content:xhtml>
> </item>
>
> Sure, I could have used text-content, or some such, but it works just fine
> with namespaces and prevents collision with other modules. So why exactly
> are you against the new proposal?
>
> > What's the role of RDF in the proposal?
>
> RSS is now (or once again) an RDF format, which has its benefits and
> drawbacks. It does make RSS more complicated, which is a downside.
However,
> as R.V. Guha pointed out to me, you can easily escape from RDF if you
don't
> like it by using the rdf:parseType="literal" attribute. Again, I think
this
> is likely a best-of-both-worlds move.
>
> --
> Aaron Swartz |"This information is top security.
> <http://swartzfam.com/aaron/>| When you have read it, destroy
yourself."
> <http://www.theinfo.org/> | - Marshall McLuhan
>
>
>
>
>
>




Wed Aug 16, 2000 6:07 pm

dave@...
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Forward
Message #399 of 4640 |
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Couldn't agree more. ... That's the point I wanted to make in my previous posting in much less words. And again, namespaces are not that hard. Even using them...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:25 pm

... RSS ... actually ... So, Aaron, because we disagree you get to make the rules? So sad it comes to this. If you'd stop and think you'd realize there's a ...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
6:12 pm

... Huh? I don't understand. The RSS 1.0 people have created a new spec, that's open, where everyone can play and add what they wish. You're welcome to play ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
6:30 pm

... Hi Dave, Your statement (above) works both ways. IMHO, Aaron even gave an example to illustrate why he thinks that way. It seems to me that he is trying to...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:17 pm

Aaron, I wrote a whole essay about this just this morning. http://www.egroups.com/message/syndication/386 Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
6:47 pm

... I've read that Dave (and a whole lot more of the history), but I still don't understand. If you're worried that people are all going to go off and create ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:00 pm

The solution is to create a collegial atmosphere, where if iSyndicate says "this is a good idea" we document it, and make it an optional element in RSS 1.0....
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:06 pm

... How is this different from the module adoption system that Rael introduced? The only difference I see is that we're using namespaces. My apologies if I...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:10 pm

Aaron: I have an idea. Could you prepare a RSS "1.0" version of this file? http://static.userland.com/gems/backend/sampleRss.xml Let's do an A-B comparison. ...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:20 pm

... Sure Dave! It was really easy, because there's an online RSS 0.9 -> 1.0 converter by Jonathan "Not-So-Desperate Perl Hacker" Eisenzopf. :-) ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:34 pm

... <code snipped> I think the entire idea of namespaces takes a vastly simple and elegant idea and complicates it for what appears to be no real benefit. ...
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:15 pm

... I think there's a misunderstanding here -- the namespaces are only optional additions -- you can completely ignore them if you don't want to parse them, ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:27 pm

... I'll test it this afternoon to see. ... Kidding aside I think this is a actually a bit of an important point. I would hope that when people look at...
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:55 pm

... I totally agree -- this is a very important point. Many languages have XML parsers but many don't. Sometimes we forget that. Thanks for keeping us on our...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
9:14 pm

Hi, That's why we spent so much time examining each change for backward compatibility. When I'm not participating in online discussions ;-) I'm hacking code...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
9:19 pm

... But Rael, it breaks my regexp: foreach {<item>(.*?)</item>} { <link>.*?</link> <title>.*?</title> etc. } Adding attributes, etc. breaks...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
9:30 pm

... If there is a substantial "lightweight/no parser" lobby, why XML at all? Surely formalizing some sort of lightweight text format, perhaps name-value pairs...
Dan Lyke
danlyke@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
3:49 pm

A lot of you have asked me if I could send them the ASP scripts I created to parse RSS feeds into HTML, HDML, and WML. I've now posted them to the web, along...
Tristan Louis
tristan@...
Send Email
Aug 18, 2000
2:50 am

... You keep talking about "C or Java" yet there are plenty of scripting environments (I already named just three of them) that are *far* easier to use and...
Eric Bohlman
ebohlman@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
11:17 pm

... I think you're missing the point. ... I was trying to say that people don't necessarily use the same tools that you all do. So talking about some great...
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
1:59 am

Howdy, No need to do this by hand -- tools abound: ...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:42 pm

... http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2000/08/16 Dave, I'll ask you one more time. Can you please tell us what exactly is wrong with the RSS 1.0...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:50 pm

Paulo, the force comes from the choice of the RSS 1.0 name. Doesn't leave much wiggle room. Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Aug 16, 2000
7:23 pm

Well, I am more interested in defending the principles of extensibility and namespace use (WHERE/WHEN NECESSARY) that the draft itself. I am far from knowing...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:30 pm

... RDF 1.0 is based on RDF 0.9, not 0.91, which had rdf:RDF as the root element -- so it's there for backwards-compatibility. ... Again,...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
8:39 pm

Let's get it on the Web so other people can have a look. Dave ... From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...> To: <syndication@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday,...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:36 pm

... Sure thing: http://my.theinfo.org/rss/newversion.xml -- Aaron Swartz |"This information is top security. <http://swartzfam.com/aaron/>| When...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:38 pm

... ... Any RSS 0.9 or 0.91 source may be viewed as RSS 1.0 on-the-fly using Guha's handy-dandy RSS2RDF at: http://purl.org/rss/1.0/convert Rael ... Rael...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
7:45 pm

You'll see where I'm going in Radio UserLand. It's not just because the "proposal" is written by geeks for geeks, and that most of the content worth ...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
9:00 pm

Dave, As a fervent admirer and user of Userland's Frontier, I am appalled by your posts to this list. For a guy with a 'flame retardent policy' your tone and ...
Per Kreipke
per@...
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Aug 16, 2000
10:12 pm
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