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Re: [syndication] Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #467 of 4640 |
Re: Thoughts, questions, and issues.

zac <zac@...> wrote:

> I curious as to the thoughts of others on this list to the points that Lynn
> brought up.
>> If people like me, content generators, are the end users, you're
>> losing us. I'm more technical than most of my fellows, and I have to
>> say I don't understand a damn thing about this new spec. It seems
>> extremely complicated.

http://www.egroups.com/message/syndication/445

I think the answer from the RSS-DEV people (I'm sort of guessing, correct me
if I'm wrong) is that the writers shouldn't have to understand the spec --
they should be able to use tools that will generate the RSS for them.

> I understand the current RSS 0.91
> just fine, as well as scriptingNews format.

Alright, so keep writing in RSS 0.9 and use the many on-line converters
(already previously mentioned in this discussion) to convert it to the new
format. If you'd like, I'm sure Jonathan would be more than willing to
update his RSS Channel Editor
(http://www.webreference.com/cgi-bin/perl/rssedit.pl) to version 1.0 so that
you can create the RSS through Web interface -- much friendlier than writing
it out by hand.

The fact is, as far as I'm concerned, nobody but the programmers should have
to deal with these specs. There seems to be a lot of confusion here, that
RSS files are meant to be written by hand. Perhaps that was true with the
old spec, but it doesn't need to be, and is even less true with the new one.
The specs are written for programmers, to allow them to write programs that
communicate. The programmers have already begun to write them and you can
see the first few over at:

http://www.egroups.com/files/rss-dev/Tools/

To the writers -- don't worry, we haven't forgotten about you. In fact, we
care about you more than ever. You don't need to be messing with the XML by
hand -- that's not what it's designed for, it's designed for programs. We've
tried to create programs so that you don't have to generate the RSS file by
hand, you can convert to it or do it through a web interface. If you still
have trouble, let us know, we're here to help, not to scare.

Lynn, I promise not to forget the writers -- I'm one too.

--
Aaron Swartz |"This information is top security.
<http://swartzfam.com/aaron/>| When you have read it, destroy yourself."
<http://www.theinfo.org/> | - Marshall McLuhan




Sun Aug 20, 2000 11:04 pm

aswartz@...
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Forward
Message #467 of 4640 |
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I curious as to the thoughts of others on this list to the points that Lynn brought up. Perhaps her post got lost in the flurry of messages that we all...
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 20, 2000
10:16 pm

... http://www.egroups.com/message/syndication/445 I think the answer from the RSS-DEV people (I'm sort of guessing, correct me if I'm wrong) is that the...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 20, 2000
11:04 pm

... Let me be a little more clear. I am a writer *and* I am a programmer. Writing comes first; I program when I have a need, not because it's k001 (though it...
Lynn Siprelle
lynn@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
3:44 am

... I'm so sorry -- I tried to stay away from that, but I guess I didn't do too good of a job. I have nothing but respect for you, Lynn. I love your site and...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
4:14 am

... These sorts of assumptions are self fulfilling to a degree. If you write a spec assuming that some users won't interact with it then they won't. This...
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
4:27 am

... It's true, and I maintain that the new spec is for more technical usage than the older one. For real heavy-duty use, it will require some understanding of...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
1:30 pm

... That answers my question. I guess my partner and I will be developing a simpler format for our project on our own. Thanks, Aaron! Lynn -- Siprelle &...
Lynn Siprelle
lynn@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
5:33 pm

... Well if you can try staying with an older version of the RSS format. It will give you access to more syndication system than if you create your own format....
zac
zac@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
5:35 pm

... We wanted to include a little more information than .91 allows. We might just go with SN format, or any of the other ones littering the landscape. :) Or we...
Lynn Siprelle
lynn@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
5:45 pm

That's fine. But I'm going to keep going. I'm tired of debating this stuff. I've been having a lot of fun in the last couple of months, and it's only been in...
Dave Winer
dave@...
Send Email
Aug 16, 2000
10:19 pm

... Heh, Hoisted by my own hyperbole! My apologies, Dave, 'apalled' was too strong a word. How about dismayed or disappointed? I understand getting fed up with...
Per Kreipke
per@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
3:38 pm

... The RSS1 proposal tries to serve multiple masters using a single XML syntactic representation. It is very close to being syntactically equivalent to RSS09...
Gabe Beged-Dov
begeddov@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
2:16 am

... Too many masters. ... Id does NOT LOOK like RSS that much. ... That seems to be the main problem: RDF focus. RSS became a popular format with people that...
Paulo Gaspar
Paulo.Gaspar@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
10:59 am

... That's not true. The authors were clearly _very_ concerned about backwards compatibility. There's a lot of junk in the spec that I'd like to see taken out,...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
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Aug 17, 2000
1:49 pm

Howdy, ... There are just a few simple mechanical additions to add the RDF syntactic sugar needed for those in the RDF world to join the wonderful world of ...
Rael Dornfest
rael@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
8:17 pm

I'm cross-posting to rss-dev. It would be great if this thread continued there, but there may not be good intersection at the moment... ... The inchannel and...
Gabe Beged-Dov
begeddov@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
5:20 am

... This is true. If there are processors that are broken, I think it would be helpful for this group to know about it so we can provide fixes or perhaps...
Jonathan Eisenzopf
eisen@...
Send Email
Aug 17, 2000
9:32 pm

... Yes; in fact it should be online next week. Rael reports that you can give it RSS 1.0, and it will spit out 0.91. I'll add an option that give users the...
Jonathan Eisenzopf
eisen@...
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Aug 21, 2000
1:04 am

... This is an interesting issue that I'd like to hear more opinions on. I think the goal is to make it simple for those crafting XML by hand and extensible...
Jonathan Eisenzopf
eisen@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
5:29 am

... I think simplicity just "is". If you need to appreciate something first then it isn't simple. This isn't meant as a criticism mind you, just an...
zac
zac@...
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Aug 21, 2000
5:58 am

... Well, I would argue (as I believe I have done from the before the start of this thread) that the preceding formats have nothing to do with syndication,...
Ian Graham
ian.graham@...
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Aug 21, 2000
5:45 pm

... Well this is the way I see it: writers write and when they have written something that they think others might be interested in, they click the publish...
Seth Russell
seth@...
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Aug 21, 2000
6:18 am

... That's why we need user friendly tools. RDF was not designed for humans, it was designed for computers to read and write. Nobody except the programmers...
Seth Russell
seth@...
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Aug 21, 2000
6:26 am

... Does that mean that you can't have a human readable format? Does robust and expandable imply that the format will not be human readable? -- We are born...
zac
zac@...
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Aug 21, 2000
6:30 am

... It is human readable; that's not the point, so it machine language. RDF is a format that is designed so that the computers can do a better job of helping...
Seth Russell
seth@...
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Aug 21, 2000
6:47 am

... I don't think the authors will be making this choice. The tool makers will make this choice. Authors will choose the tools. If acceptable tools don't...
Seth Russell
seth@...
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Aug 21, 2000
1:46 pm

Hi Seth! ... I'm sorry, I meant authors in terms of authors of the spec, not authors of the content. (Lots of possible terminology confusion.) I totally agree...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
1:51 pm

... Cool! Well then, does anyone know where I can find a general purpose Win32 tool for a reading RDF into a knowledge base? -- Seth Russell ...
Seth Russell
seth@...
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Aug 21, 2000
1:59 pm

... Aaron, I disagree in part. We tried to strike the right balance between ease of use and extensibility. It's normal that people will have issues; some are...
Jonathan Eisenzopf
eisen@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
2:00 pm

... I assume you mean whining (wait, am I whining, now?). :-) ... I know that personally, to understand something I need to get my head around the mental...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@...
Send Email
Aug 21, 2000
2:25 pm
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