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Reply Message #928 of 4640 |
Re: [syndication] SOAP meets RSS

Thanks Dan..

Hammering-avoidance is very much on my mind as our servers are getting
pounded by search engine crawlers in vast numbers and always at the worst
possible time. At the same time we're experiencing substantial growth in our
free Manila hosting service, and money is a big issue (as it is everywhere
these days it seems).

In that context, we designed this system so that:

1. Most bits are served statically.

2. The reliance on SOAP/XML-RPC is limited to smallish messages, usually
with just a few scalars and possibly an array. These travel over the wire,
even for people with relatively slow lines (like me), very quickly.

3. As much as possible use the CPU cycles on the recipient side, conserve
CPU cycles in the cloud so that it scales. That's the price you pay for good
current content, but it's an easy price for most to pay because the cycles
on the recipient end usually are being wasted (this is the P2P proposition).

I want other content types to be able to hitch a ride in a RSS channel. We
have a design for this, but it isn't written up yet. The goal is to make
exactly the types you mention, audio and video, flow around in higher
fidelity, optimizing the user experience and using the Internet when it
isn't so busy. It's largely a UI problem, the technology is brain-dead
simple. I'll post a note here for sure when it's written up.

Basically it flips around the Akamai equation. My goal isn't to get the bits
to you as fast as possible while you wait for them, but to have the bits
arrive before you even know they're there. ;->

Dave


> Interesting...
>
> How would you distinguish the RSS case from the general problem of
> caching and change notification for Web content? Would you propose a
> SOAP-based solution to the broader case of wanting to know straight away
> about changes to arbitrary Web-accessible chunks of data (images, audio,
> markup etc). Normally one would try to retrieve all this via HTTP caches
> to avoid hammering the original server; do you reckon it would it make
> sense for Web caches to use SOAP or similar to stay more up to date?




Sat Jan 6, 2001 4:50 pm

dave@...
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Message #928 of 4640 |
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Most aggregators scan for changes once an hour, but in some situations we want to know immediately when a channel has changed. For example, we include "RSS...
dave@... Send Email Jan 6, 2001
3:30 pm

Hi Dave, ... Interesting... How would you distinguish the RSS case from the general problem of caching and change notification for Web content? Would you...
Dan Brickley
daniel.brickley@... Send Email
Jan 6, 2001
4:32 pm

Thanks Dan.. Hammering-avoidance is very much on my mind as our servers are getting pounded by search engine crawlers in vast numbers and always at the worst ...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 6, 2001
4:52 pm

Hey Dave, You might be interested in one of the proposed work items for the IETF's WEBI working group (aka WREC) - we just had our first meeting in San Diego. ...
Mark Nottingham
mnot@... Send Email
Jan 8, 2001
6:08 am

... Dave, this seems a lot like the changedPage spec which I've had out for months. Perhaps we can figure out a way for our systems to work together? ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:40 am

Aaron, I just read the page carefully, and think I understand what's going on. What's missing is what we provide in the <cloud> element, a way of bridging RSS...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
3:00 pm

... That's true, there's no way to do it 0.91 -- in 1.0 you could use: http://my.theinfo.org/changed/1.0/rss/ ... Yup, looks perfect. I'll try to get an...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
3:04 pm

... Sorry that took so long, here it is: http://swartzfam.com/aaron/school/rss092/ -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
3:48 pm

OK, I must be doing something wrong. Here's the POST request I sent: POST /aaron/school/cp/ HTTP/1.0 User-Agent: Frontier/7.0b33 (WinNT) Host: swartzfam.com ...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
5:59 pm

... Sorry, I think the problem stemmed from an omission in the spec: items must be sent with a Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded. I've updated ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:28 pm

... A firewall friendly service might allow for responding to notifications from a variety of sources, and then forwarding them by subscription. A client...
Ken MacLeod
ken@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:21 pm

... This is a definite use case for changedPage. The way I'd see it being done is the machine inside the firewall would call up the notifier, then it would ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:35 pm

Hmmm, nope, still getting the same error. Here's the request I'm sending now: POST /aaron/school/cp/ HTTP/1.0 User-Agent: Frontier/7.0b33 (WinNT) Host:...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:33 pm

... Oops, sorry. What was I thinking? You're using the wrong syntax. When you want to subscribe to a feed, you use this syntax: ...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:37 pm

... Sorry, I meant "The syntax you were using is the one to send out notifications that a page has changed." I'm just not being clear today... -- [ Aaron...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:40 pm

I'm sure the spec is very clear, after you know how it's supposed to work. My dense mind gets very confused by all the %3A's and %2Fs. Too many miles on the...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:49 pm

... Sounds perfect. As an example, for my test of the implementation, here's what I used: args.responder =...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:55 pm

It worked! http://www.scripting.com/images/successWithAaron.gif Yippee. Dave...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:53 pm

... Looks good on my end too! Are you ready for me to send an update notification? -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
6:58 pm

No, not yet. The URL I sent was bogus. I have to do a little more thinking. Do you want me to mock up a prototype or bake this into our implementation? If the...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
7:00 pm

... It's probably better to bake it in -- take all the time you need. I'll be here when it's ready. ;-) -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@... |...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
7:03 pm

Offlist, Aaron and I got it working. I released the new bits to our testers, so now http-post is part of the SOAP-Meets-RSS spec. Thanks Aaron for a very nice...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
8:56 pm

... And thanks to Dave for his help and willingness to get this working. It was wonderful to work with you. Also thanks to Dan Lyke for helping test and refine...
Aaron Swartz
aswartz@... Send Email
Jan 7, 2001
9:05 pm

Mark, the problem we're solving is the inverse of the one you are taking on. You're wanting to make the current browsing experience better. We're trying to...
Dave Winer
dave@... Send Email
Jan 8, 2001
6:21 am

The application is different, but I think the problem is the same - there's a need for a way to describe a channel that pushes out messages that describe, in...
Mark Nottingham
mnot@... Send Email
Jan 8, 2001
8:02 am
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