"i take those numbers you cited are settings that sounded ok, not some result of
esoteric learning."

Actually it was the result of some epic stupidity :) "Two fat retards on a
unicycle synthesis method" came from "Two fat gays taking their dog to the vet
on a tandem synthesis method" ... feeding a different oscillator into a
different input on a 'level adjust' module, attaching a "fixed value" of 1 to
each 'level adjust' input pin as well, and then adjusting the pitch, wave and
volume of only one of the oscillators outputs. I have since been told that this
is "ring modulation sort of", whatever that means :) (is ring modulation that
simple)?

I was using a detuner on the 'modulator', and found that standard 'even
tempered' chromatic tuning was just produced ugly noises that were incredibly
unstable. Without resorting to "learning" about FM pitch ratios, or how to
connect the osc sync pins to the gate signal, so the both the oscillators wave
cycles would always start at the same position, I embarked on a strange journey.

I connected the level adjusted output to a scope module, and then manually
changed the voltages on each semitone of the modulators detuner until the
resultant wave held a stable position on the scope screen and I could hear no
phase shift in the tone. I ended up with a totally weirded out 12 semi tone
octave and the tunings were wildly out there - My 1st real experiment in
microtonality :)

So then I hooked up the sync pins as well (after some help from these forums)
and there it was. The most instantly usable detunings were "0 (same note),
0.321928 (slightly flat major 3rd), 0.58496 (a slightly sharp perfect 5th) or
0.90689(bell - a slightly flat major 7th)".

So no "esoteric learning" there, just too much time and too little knowledge :)

--- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, "k9k9dog" <domgoold@...> wrote:
>
> "two fat retards on a unicycle synthesis method"
> sounds good to me. i'll take it for a spin ;)
>
> i take those numbers you cited are settings that sounded ok,
> not some result of esoteric learning.
>
> --- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, simonecuttlefish <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > I used a sine wave as modulator and feed it into a low pass filter rolled
off at 18kz by 24dB (I'm still experimenting with these freq and rolloff
settings). I think that's 10.354349 volts - I'm using the DH_BiquadFilter and
you can enter the freq as hz (18000).
> >
> > I'm using a gate signal to the sync pins to make the modulator and carrier
start predictably, and a volume slider to linear amp to adjust the amount of
modulator sine that gets fed into the carriers phase mod in.
> >
> > Choosing the modulators detune pitch is the tricky part, as there are so few
musical sounding intervals. I opted to switch the modulators pitch by two
octaves up and two octaves down, as well as adding in some of my "magic wibbled
numbers". The numbers are from the "two fat retards on a unicycle synthesis
method", yes, it's an original :)
> >
> > Try adding 0, 0.321928, 0.58496 or 0.90689(bell) as volts to the
modulators, along with a whole volt octave change of -2, -1, 0, 1 and 2 volts.
Bingo ... wibble-tronic synthesis :)
> >
> >
> > --- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, "k9k9dog" <domgoold@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 'band limiting wave forms as in sampling only usually get band limited
above c5'
> > >
> > > did you work it like this?i haven't tried yet, was thinking
> > > it would perhaps be controlled by kybd pitch in..
> > > eg:with a start point at(...) and lfp effect increased gradually
> > > to cover required range.
> > >
> > > --- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, simonecuttlefish <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again everyone, and the pre-filtering is working beautifully,
except if the user is using a lower sampling rate than 44.1K on the VST host :(
This changes the filter response and it goes poopy and stops working as
intended. I'm putting in a "switch" for the user to tune the synth to their
sampling rate for now. It was pointed out that CK has a module Iin pack 1 I
believe) for detecting and outputting host sampling rate so I could dynamically
switch in different cutoff frequencies post modulator osc, but I'm a tad
strapped atm. The CK mods are an 'aspirational target' though when I get some
bucks together (I wonder how SE v2 they will be?)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to everyone for the fantastic responses, especially Jammie. I
have a rusty old Mirage and an ESQ1 upstairs - remarkable things in their time.
The Mirage did some cool tricks with it's wave tables. I noticed, that at the
higher pitches, the waveforms seem to be samples from lower down that sound
heavily filtered, so they can be played back faster without aliasing (too much)
:) The ESQ1 was a noisy old beast, and is the inspiration for the synth I'm
currently working on (100% synth/no samples - but quirky and nice. 100%
predictability is a total bane sometimes).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again!
> > > >
> > > > --- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > yes 7 saws slighly detuned which gives a great chorus effect hoover
sounds any one
> > > > >
> > > > > you can do it with any same waveforms use mathmatical detuning in
musical intervals
> > > > >
> > > > > i was doing this on the fz1 sampler and its additive engine which was
only 48 partials i would layer the 8 waves and set it to mono with portomento
great effect
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: aainslie@
> > > > > To: syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:43 PM
> > > > > Subject: [syntheditusers] Re: Phase Mod and the Singing Hippo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Very interisting jammie! I totally agree! Who needs anything above
18kHz inanyway. On a random note(and I'm not a synth man - I'm an effects
junkie) - sometimes aliasing needs to be embraced - the apparently mythical
"supersaw" waveform is apparently 7 NON-Bandlimited saws - with a tracking HP
filter to boot. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > band limiting wave forms as in sampling only usually get band
limited above c5
> > > > > >
> > > > > > well thats what i do any way as if you band limit the lower
samples you lose the feel of the original but when notes after c5 they start to
sound like saw waves any way or sin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i find that when sampling old romplers and samplers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and doing single cycle samples if you sample at c4 /c3/c2/c1 they
look identical c5 starts to change a little bit and c6 looks nothing like the
single cycle of the other waveforms
> > > > > >
> > > > > > its the same with software instruments that use bandlimiting at
the higher notes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > they just become saw or sin waves in the higher note regions due
to band limiting which removes upper frequencies so no aliasing occurs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on the shruthi diy hardware synth they use the pwm outputs to
bring out the audio now they use a lowpass filter to remove the pwm signal from
the audio signal so that you dont hear the pwm carrier wave
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and with any thing keep it stupidly simple
> > > > > >
> > > > > > remember im talking about hardware and how they achived it im an
ex ensoniq repair tech i make hardware modular systems and hardware filters i
make diy synths and pro audio equipment and so i have been working with synths
and samplers and there repair for 22 years
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and why would you want to have frquencies above 18khz in your
audio the higher the frequency the more annoying it becomes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so lpf damping does work as its used in hardware
> > > > > >
> > > > > > try it you will be pleasantly suprised been doing it in analog for
years with digital osc
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: k9k9dog
> > > > > > To: syntheditusers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:30 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [syntheditusers] Re: Phase Mod and the Singing Hippo
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i'm interested in this issue too:
> > > > > > i found the LPF option seemed a bit 'too easy'/simple.
> > > > > > aren't you just damping your sound after a certain frequency?
> > > > > > if aliasing isn't occuring in some of the upper freq's, you'll
> > > > > > be losing out there.
> > > > > > so:'band'limiting, i was thinking more of targeted band/s,
> > > > > > attenuation, scaling, BPF?BEF? combined, maybe as a kind of
> > > > > > tracking notch filter.
> > > > > > or something like that ;)
> > > > > > any relat-able experiences in this field out there? i looked
> > > > > > at the dsp pages, but, pffff...
> > > > > > (my 'aliasing' had nothing to do with hippos or anything like
that,
> > > > > > just harsh artifacts in the upper range)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>