!!! OUR APOLOGIES FOR MULTIPLE COPIES !!! C A L L F O R P A R T I C I P A T I O N I E E E I N F O C O M 2 0 0 1 http://www.ieee-infocom.org/2001 ...
Andreas Pitsillides
andreas.pitsillides@...
Jan 8, 2001 11:11 am
1028
Can somebody shed some light on a few things pleas please? 1. People claim that TCP semantics is not violated if TCP acks are "spoofed", as long as the initial...
eric.verlind@...
Jan 8, 2001 3:56 pm
1029
... You're right, spoofing ACKs does violate TCP semantics. Some folks argue that if their intermediate node, that spoofs ACKs, also buffers data then you're...
Craig Partridge
craig@...
Jan 8, 2001 4:20 pm
1030
... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ how is this different from what you say next ... i.e. how is your "remote system" different from any intermediate in the way...
Luigi Rizzo
luigi@...
Jan 8, 2001 11:17 pm
1031
... Hi Luigi: That's an astute point, thanks! The answer is that I view the probability of failure as part of the TCP semantics. That is, TCP says it provides...
Craig Partridge
craig@...
Jan 9, 2001 12:29 am
1032
What is a system? and what are "TCP end-to-end semantics"? Where are they defined? I think saying remote and intermediate "system" does more harm than good in...
Alhussein Abouzeid
hussein@...
Jan 9, 2001 5:09 am
1033
Hi, What you say is probably true. However I am puzzled about the consequences of the remark on "session". So the spoofer TCP I am talking to happily sends me...
eric.verlind@...
Jan 9, 2001 10:37 am
1034
Some quotation from RFC793: [page 2] "Some computer systems will be connected to networks via front-end computers which house the TCP and internet protocol...
Morten Schlaeger
morten@...
Jan 9, 2001 10:41 am
1035
I, the application, expect from you, TCP, the following: When my peer application has received all the data I sent in order and uncorrupted AND I have received...
Jacob Heitz
jheitz@...
Jan 9, 2001 4:45 pm
1036
All, Here is another way to look at whether "TCP-spoofing" causes violation of end-to-end TCP semantics. This is similar to Hussein's analysis. 1. In a purely,...
Anil Agarwal
agarwal@...
Jan 9, 2001 4:45 pm
1037
In message <200101091551.f09FplA12716@...>, Anil Agarwal wr ... Which may fail when spoofing is done. If the RTT between the sender and ...
Craig Partridge
craig@...
Jan 9, 2001 6:31 pm
1038
... What about any connection whose spoofed ACKs cause the sender's window to reuse offsets (i.e., roll-around), and then has a change in the path that causes...
Joe Touch
touch@...
Jan 9, 2001 6:41 pm
1039
... Modulo LINGER working correctly (which my experience suggests is an iffy proposition). ... I believe the strict application of the end-to-end principle is...
Mark Allman
mallman@...
Jan 9, 2001 6:51 pm
1040
... The E2E argument makes assertions about the differences between composing services (e.g., ACKs here) or not. The ultimate effect of that would be...
Joe Touch
touch@...
Jan 9, 2001 6:53 pm
1041
... Practically speaking, a FIN timeout takes 3.5 minutes, on most systems, with 11 retransmissions with backoff timeout values and a minimum timer value of...
Anil Agarwal
agarwal@...
Jan 9, 2001 7:57 pm
1042
... yes. Financial applications, wherein the transmission of information results in money being removed from an account. When your bank tells your ATM to spit...
Fred Baker
fred@...
Jan 9, 2001 9:32 pm
1043
... TCP's e2e semantics are described in RFC 793. With respect to the relationship to applications above TCP, it says: Much of this document is written in the...
Fred Baker
fred@...
Jan 9, 2001 9:32 pm
1044
By the way, I missed the initial message in this thread. What is proposed? Is it suggested that we move the acknowledge pointer (the sequence number of the...
Fred Baker
fred@...
Jan 9, 2001 11:02 pm
1045
... Nonsense. TCP can and should provide 100% guarantee of detecting a failed connection. What it cannot do is provide a 100% guarantee of a successful...
Jacob Heitz
jheitz@...
Jan 9, 2001 11:09 pm
1046
... I have a question: if by using the spoofer (or other type of PEPs that basically violate the e-t-e semantics) the performance is improved under certain...
Mingyan Liu
mingyan@...
Jan 9, 2001 11:43 pm
1047
... yes. Financial applications, wherein the transmission of information results in money being removed from an account. When your bank tells your ATM to spit...
George Michaelson
ggm@...
Jan 9, 2001 11:46 pm
1048
... this is what makes me wonder "what is the objective here"? If what we're trying to do is make the sender put additional data in flight, we don't have to...
Fred Baker
fred@...
Jan 10, 2001 12:22 am
1049
... In general, I would agree with that. Now tell me this: do you know that the spoofer is there? How do you evade it? The cases that come quickly to mind are...
Fred Baker
fred@...
Jan 10, 2001 2:54 am
1050
Hi, The requirement is that a TCP session, once it starts in spoofed mode continues thenceforth in spoofing mode unless there is a graceful closure. A route...
asaha@...
Jan 10, 2001 4:53 am
1051
How would you suppose the application discovers the spoofing? The whole idea of spoofing is that it is invisible. Craig In message...
Craig Partridge
craig@...
Jan 10, 2001 2:53 pm
1052
In message <5.0.2.1.2.20010110090515.00a9e4b0@...>, Fred Baker ... I am curious how we got into this discussion. Does someone have any firsthand...
Anil Agarwal
agarwal@...
Jan 10, 2001 2:54 pm
1053
... well I believe the question is more along the lines of: if ISP X uses spoofer or caches or whatever to give you better performance(thruput or security or...
Manish Karir
karir@...
Jan 10, 2001 3:53 pm
1054
You can check out: http://www.isr.umd.edu/TechReports/CSHCN/1999/CSHCN_TR_99-11/CSHCN_TR_99-11.pdf I believe this implementation had a way of maintaining seq...
Manish Karir
karir@...
Jan 10, 2001 3:54 pm
1055
In message <Pine.GSO.4.21.0101100923170.17984-100000@...>, Manish ... This assumes that the customer understand the source of error. One of the...
Craig Partridge
craig@...
Jan 10, 2001 3:55 pm
1056
... Fred Baker: yes. Financial applications, wherein the transmission of information results in money being removed from an account. When your bank tells your ...
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