Tammy Fischer wrote:

>My post regarding language models for Deaf children was with regard to
>interpreters in the K-12 setting.  Obviously the best language and role
>models for Deaf children would be Deaf role models - but that isn't going to
>happen in a K-12 setting with interpreters unless you have Deaf
>interpreters - anyone seeing a school district hiring two interpreters per
>class happening any time soon?  Doubt it.  It would be great, but not
>realistic.  So, you took my comments out of context or weren't following the
>thread.
>
I am Deaf. Given a choice, I'd prefer a Deaf "native-ASL'er" as a Deaf
child's language model any day.
Give the cold-blooded fact that more and more "Deaf Adults" are coming
from education systems that
are more messed up than ever before in denying ASL language access
(despite service to the contrary) and
how schools for the Deaf are seeing a increasing resurgence of audists
in control and the resulting further
lingual (SEE, C.A.S.E. etc) contamination of the products of this
system, I have to say the language
model for the Deaf child in a mainstream program  should be whoever is
the most demonstration ally
competent in ASL--whether hearing, Deaf, or Klingon. The ideal far too
often just isn't
available, the education system makes darn sure of that. So the focus
should be on correcting the Deaf education system that continues to
engage in lingual oppression of the Deaf.

--
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
          ,                          ,
        o/      James Womack          \o       ,
       <|                              |>  __o/
       / >                            < \   __\__

Website for workshops: http://members.tripod.com/jrwomack

Website for my students: http//www.ccsn.edu/fl/intlang




-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com

I stand by my comments that a person with some other
degree BA/BS
> (Modern Dance) but no
> interpreter training is still not going to make that
person a better
> interpreter than a person with an AAS degree in
INTERPRETING and no
> BA/BS degree.

>Objection, Tammy -- assuming facts not in evidence.
:-)

I can think of numerous instances where my
non-interpreting BS (Biology)has allowed me to help
out a team with an interpreting degree by throwing
them the proper meaning for a term.

One example:  Interpreting in the courtroom, the
forensic guy on the stand says something about
extracting the vitreous fluid.  My team who was up at
the time, who is an excellent interpreter with years
of experience, knew from context that he was pulling a
fluid out of the body.  Unfortunately, she drew it
from her arm.  Vitreous fluid actually resides in the
eye, and when I fed her, she took it and moved on.

An AAS degree is a degree, no argument on that.  It is
a worthwhile degree, no argument on that.  But the
breadth and scope of education you get with a BA/BS
cannot be matched by any AAS program anywhere.  An AAS
alone may make one a decent interpreter, or it may
not.  A BA/BS -alone- may make one a better
interpreter or it may not.  I think the point of most
people arguing for the extra degree is that MORE
education makes a BETTER interpreter.  A BA/BS of any
stripe will make for a better interpreter because of
the -additional- knowledge gained.

Personally, I feel that one should never be satisfied
to stand still, to say "here I am, I am a 'good
enough' interpreter".  I havent the funds to pursue
additional (MS, PhD) degrees, but I continue to take
college classes here and there to expand my knowledge
base which makes me a better interpreter.

cherie
CI and CT

=====
I Am Free. We Are United.
Pagan Unity Campaign
http://www.paganunitycampaign.org

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

thanks for the help. will look into it. only problem may be finding time to go
search for them.
and i have not asked anyone to change it, not sure who to ask...but also the
impression from
teacher that have been talking about it that it is always cold during winter and
hot during the
spring/summer (ie the school "turns a/c on during winter and heater on during
summer.") oh well,
maybe latex or something to match my skin tone so will always off-set my shirts.
hmmm....y'all
have a great day!

en garde,
nick

<snip>
>    And if you are ever forced to challenge anybody to a duel, they come in
> handy! :)
>
> Anon
>
yes, i suppose they could come off easier than others but, for some reason, i'm
thinking they lack
the wallop that a good, old fashioned gauntlet swap to duel requires. . .unless,
of course they
are made with some light, yet strong, metal that packs a whallop a la the vest
worn by Frodo in
THE LORD OF THE RINGS given him by the elves.


=====
hope never to be again as you are today.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

Word Dan.
     Also, if this BA/BS thing is a requirement for certification can we not
assume (ooh dangerous) that people going for their certification have some
sort of training, in interpreting? If they do not, if they have a BA in the
dreaded modern dance and no ITP time and no sign skills would they pass the
CI/CT?  I don't think they would, at least I hope not.  If one cannot pass
the CI/CT, the BA/BS does not matter.  If one can pass the CI/CT, the
benefit of a BA in anything helps your general knowledge base and can make
you a better interpreter.

--
Roberto R. Santiago
"Old skool is a shovel, Can ya dig it?"


on 10/16/02 11:01 PM, Dan Parvaz at dparvaz@... wrote:

>> I stand by my comments that a person with some other degree BA/BS
>> (Modern Dance) but no
>> interpreter training is still not going to make that person a better
>> interpreter than a person with an AAS degree in INTERPRETING and no
>> BA/BS degree.
>
> Objection, Tammy -- assuming facts not in evidence. :-)
>
> The assumption here is that interpreter training programs taken as a
> whole do a better-than-chance job of preparing interpreters. There are
> individual programs which do rather well, but is there any work
> (perhaps by someone in CIT?) which points to the efficacy of
> interpreter education in general?
>
> Put another way: is there consensus on what skills/knowledge/attributes
> need to be instilled in potential interpreters, and is there a good
> consistent method of instilling them?
>
> Just for grins, I thought I'd go to look at the BA in dance offered at
> my institution (University of New Mexico):
> http://finearts.unm.edu/academic/degrees/dance_degrees/danceba.htm
>
> It includes a core curriculum well beyond what is required at any AAS
> program, and courses in the major which any interpreter would benefit
> from: Voice for Actors, Kinesiology, Movement Analysis, Pedagogy, to
> say nothing of elective hours from pretty much any field. And not for
> nothing, but they'd actually be well-versed in at least one field (and
> just might make for a kick-butt performing arts interpreter!).
>
> But wait? Can they sign? And I say again... can ITP graduates? Sad
> experience dictates that language is the single weakest area in the
> field generally, and with ITP grads particularly. As one of the faculty
> here is fond of saying, interpreters who are weak at sign-to-voice only
> *think* they are better at voice-to-sign. When one voices, one can hear
> all the mistakes, and one's English instincts are well-honed enough to
> make one wince. An interpreter with weak language skills make not have
> the linguistic maturity to realize that what they are producing is sign
> salad.
>
> -Dan.

> I stand by my comments that a person with some other degree BA/BS
> (Modern Dance) but no
> interpreter training is still not going to make that person a better
> interpreter than a person with an AAS degree in INTERPRETING and no
> BA/BS degree.

Objection, Tammy -- assuming facts not in evidence. :-)

The assumption here is that interpreter training programs taken as a
whole do a better-than-chance job of preparing interpreters. There are
individual programs which do rather well, but is there any work
(perhaps by someone in CIT?) which points to the efficacy of
interpreter education in general?

Put another way: is there consensus on what skills/knowledge/attributes
need to be instilled in potential interpreters, and is there a good
consistent method of instilling them?

Just for grins, I thought I'd go to look at the BA in dance offered at
my institution (University of New Mexico):
http://finearts.unm.edu/academic/degrees/dance_degrees/danceba.htm

It includes a core curriculum well beyond what is required at any AAS
program, and courses in the major which any interpreter would benefit
from: Voice for Actors, Kinesiology, Movement Analysis, Pedagogy, to
say nothing of elective hours from pretty much any field. And not for
nothing, but they'd actually be well-versed in at least one field (and
just might make for a kick-butt performing arts interpreter!).

But wait? Can they sign? And I say again... can ITP graduates? Sad
experience dictates that language is the single weakest area in the
field generally, and with ITP grads particularly. As one of the faculty
here is fond of saying, interpreters who are weak at sign-to-voice only
*think* they are better at voice-to-sign. When one voices, one can hear
all the mistakes, and one's English instincts are well-honed enough to
make one wince. An interpreter with weak language skills make not have
the linguistic maturity to realize that what they are producing is sign
salad.

-Dan.

http://www.colorado.edu/slhs/tiem.online/

>  -----Original Message-----
> From:         Mary Silver [mailto:maryjs@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 9:33 PM
> To:   lynne@...
> Subject:      RE: TIEM
>
> Can someone send the link to this TIEM so I can see what it is you all are
> referring to?
> Thanks,
> Mary
>
>               -----Original Message-----
>               From: For Interpreters whose Working Languages include a
> Signed Language [mailto:TERPS-L@...]
>               Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:23 PM
>               To: TERPS-L@...
>               Subject: Re: TIEM
>
>               I have been in the first cohort of the Master Mentor Program
> (we are in our last couple of months in the internship phase) and I cannot
> say enough good things about it. I have had an experience in other online
> program and so I feel like I have a good handle to be able to compare
> online experiences. I would venture to say that this program has been the
> BEST learning experience I have ever had. Betsy Winston runs this and it's
> such a "comfortable" environment and when Betsy speaks, it's always a gem
> and so profound that we have to sit back and think about it. She is
> constantly involved with us to assist, guide, mentor, and to teach but
> basically the cohort members are also experienced interpreters, trainers
> and mentors that we also are able to share and become a resource to each
> other exponentially increasing the benefit of the program. There is a lot
> of work but that is to be expected of a graduate level program (but you
> can get undergrad credit as well.) We have had guest instructors of such a
> high caliber that there is NO way that you can get a similar education
> over such a long term in any other program. People such as Dennis Cokely,
> Sandra Gish, Robert Lee, Christine Monikowski, and several more whose
> names you would easily recognize.
>
>               There is so much discussion and sharing that it is difficult
> to keep up BUT also you don't want to miss a message because there is so
> much benefit from all of them! I have all four class messages saved for
> retrieval later - worth every minute!!!
>
>               I also know that Cindy Roy teaches the Discourse Analysis
> class - who BETTER? I have heard some wonderful things about the other
> classes as well so, BY FAR, this is the best program to be involved
> with!!! If you want any more specific info, please do not hesitate to
> contact me. I would be more than happy to provide you with references to
> the other cohort members and I'm sure they will say the same thing!!!
> Thanks for the opportunity to promote such a wonderful program!!!
>
>               Lynne
>
>                       -----Original Message-----
>                       From: Drew, Alysa [mailto:Alysa.Drew@...]
>                       Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 12:53 PM
>                       Subject: TIEM
>
>                       I was wondering if anyone has taken the TIEM online
> courses through the University of Colorado. I am interested, but I've
> never taken and online course before, and I'd be interested in learning of
> others' experiences. Please email me privately at alysa.drew@...
> <mailto:alysa.drew@...>.
>                       Thanks.
>                       Alysa Drew
>                       Interpreter Coordinator
>                       Pikes Peak Community College
>                       5675 South Academy Blvd. Box C-30
>                       Colorado Springs, CO 80906
>                       719/540-7185 V
>                       719/579-3155 TTY
>                       719/540-7075 FAX
>                       alysa.drew@...
>

My post regarding language models for Deaf children was with regard to
interpreters in the K-12 setting.  Obviously the best language and role
models for Deaf children would be Deaf role models - but that isn't going to
happen in a K-12 setting with interpreters unless you have Deaf
interpreters - anyone seeing a school district hiring two interpreters per
class happening any time soon?  Doubt it.  It would be great, but not
realistic.  So, you took my comments out of context or weren't following the
thread.

I am NOT RESISTANT to interpreters getting education - either currently
certified OR future interpreters who WANT to become certified, I am just
DISGUSTED that people are seemingly saying that an A.A.S. degree is not a
valid degree.  IT IS.  I am not saying that it is the be all end all of
degrees, but it should be recognized as a degree - especially if it is a
degree that is IN INTERPRETING.

I really don't care if they grandfather in currently certified interpreters
or not.  That is not the point I am trying to make.  I am just saying, if
they want to make a requirement like this BA/BS thing - they are going to
need to make sure that BA/BS programs are offered all over the country
instead of 26 versus 85  like Beth Ann quoted.  AND - these BA/BS degrees
better be in an Interpreting or Deafness related field because I stand by my
comments that a person with some other degree BA/BS (Modern Dance) but no
interpreter training is still not going to make that person a better
interpreter than a person with an AAS degree in INTERPRETING and no BA/BS
degree.

Tired of beating a dead horse...

Tammy

Tammera J. Fischer, CI & CT; NAD IV
Certified Sign Language Interpreter
(503) 267-4861 (V)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: terperto
   To: TERPS-L@...
   Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 1:53 PM
   Subject: Re: Non-Degreed Interpreters [was: Non-Degreed ITP Instructors]




   on 10/14/02 3:30 PM, Tammy Fischer at tjfisch@... wrote:

   The most highly qualified interpreters SHOULD be the language role models
for Deaf children.
   -I thought Deaf adults should be the language models for Deaf children.
No matter how good we get most of us are not native users with native
competence.

   There is no incentive for interpreters to do so - and at $12.50 an hour,
who can afford it?  YES - Interpreters should STILL go on and pursue
advanced training for the good of the profession and their own abilities to
do their jobs, however this idea that we all go out and get degrees and the
educational world will suddenly welcome us and pay us a bunch more money
just doesn't bear out in actual practice.
   -No, not yet, but not everything is for those in the field today.  Have
some vision, leave a legacy.  Besides I have yet to see anyone acknowledge
that in all likely hood currently certified terps will not need to go back
to school!  This is for the future, future certification, future tests,
future pay, future respect, future standards.  The benefits of the future
are established with the hard work of today.  So no, it won't "suddenly"
happen, but it will happen.
Tammera J. Fischer, CI & CT; NAD IV
Certified Sign Language Interpreter
(503) 267-4861 (V)

I'm interested, too. Perhaps you should copy the list.

Thanks.

Alysa

-----Original Message-----
From: Moorman-Rice, David [mailto:davidmr@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:33 PM
To: TERPS-L@...
Subject: Non Academic Campus interpreting

Hello all!  I am wondering if your colleges and universities have policies
regarding non-academic interpreting requests.  Right now Iowa State is
looking into crafting a policy for our students and I am hoping to get some
valued input from you.

Some questions are:

Who coordinates the requests?
Who provides services?
If you provide services, who receives the billing?
Do you give your campus any training on how to request and use interpreters?

Thank you much in advance!  Please reply directly to me if you could so I
can easily accumulate your answers.  Actual written policies, if you have
them, are best!

David
davidmr@...

David Moorman-Rice
Sign Language Interpreter, NAD Level V
Iowa State University, Disability Resources
1222C State Gym
Ames, Iowa 50011-2011
515-294-7617 (Voice)
515-294-6635 (TTY)
515-294-1412 (Fax)
515-290-7163 (Cell)

Hello all!  I am wondering if your colleges and universities have policies
regarding non-academic interpreting requests.  Right now Iowa State is
looking into crafting a policy for our students and I am hoping to get some
valued input from you.

Some questions are:

Who coordinates the requests?
Who provides services?
If you provide services, who receives the billing?
Do you give your campus any training on how to request and use interpreters?


Thank you much in advance!  Please reply directly to me if you could so I
can easily accumulate your answers.  Actual written policies, if you have
them, are best!

David
davidmr@...

David Moorman-Rice
Sign Language Interpreter, NAD Level V
Iowa State University, Disability Resources
1222C State Gym
Ames, Iowa 50011-2011
515-294-7617 (Voice)
515-294-6635 (TTY)
515-294-1412 (Fax)
515-290-7163 (Cell)

Hello all!

I apologize again for the dual post, but I also think that both groups have insight that is helpful. ;-)

The school I work in is kept quite cold (rumors have that the A/C is on) and normally that would be no problem, except that I really don't want to terp with cold hands/wrists. It has just started, got a string of cold fronts come through, and I can't seem to keep my wrists/hands warm. I have warm-ups to do so I won't start cold turkey to terp, but it does nothing to keep them warm for long enough. even while terping they are cold and i can feel it. any ideas on gloves or warmers or something that i can wear either while interpreting (and if this, should match skin tone, right? or at least be something opposite/contrasting with the color my shirt, right?) or driving and during preparation time so that i don't hasten injuries by terping cold. (probably while driving too! ;-)

thanks all for your input in advance and hope great afternoon for all of you!

nick

hope never to be again as you are today.

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

you could try silk gloves, I bought a pair at the camping goods store.
They are intended to be worn under ski gloves.  They keep you warm and
fit well.  The ones I bought were silver -- never tried to interpret in
them however.

I bought a pair of green fleece gloves for an all-day workshop for a
carpenter's union on scaffolding, when we spent a good part of the day
outside and it was COLD.

Jean Clarkson

Try gettin latex surgical gloves.  They are very tight and skin tone, so they
fit close to your hands and fingers for good sign/fs capabilities (I mean, after
all, surgeons use them to work in minute spaces -- and believe me, your hands
will actually be the warmest part of your body.  I used this "trick" when I
lived in Michigan before -- but here in Florida, I'm looking for a COOL
solution!
Deborah
	 -----Original Message-----
	 From: Drew, Alysa [mailto:Alysa.Drew@...]
	 Sent: Wed 10/16/2002 12:48 PM
	 To: TERPS-L@...
	 Cc:
	 Subject: Re: gloves for interpreting


	 Hi Nick. I wish I had an answer. I have perpetually cold hands. My only
suggestion is to wear sweaters with long sleeves. They should keep you warm to
the wrists. However, I don't tend to wear a lot of heavy stuff because I stay
pretty warm while interpreting, and sometimes is can seem a little restrictive,
I suppose.

	 I guess you've asked for someone to address the problem. I know that doesn't
often work. I have an arctic wind that blows past my computer, so my hands feel
like icicles whenever I'm on it for very long.

	 Good luck.

	 Alysa

	 -----Original Message-----
	 From: Nick Christen [mailto:zanyterp@...]
	 Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 10:39 AM
	 To: TERPS-L@...
	 Subject: gloves for interpreting

	 Hello all!
	 I apologize again for the dual post, but I also think that both groups have
insight that is helpful. ;-)
	 The school I work in is kept quite cold (rumors have that the A/C is on) and
normally that would be no problem, except that I really don't want to terp with
cold hands/wrists. It has just started, got a string of cold fronts come
through, and I can't seem to keep my wrists/hands warm. I have warm-ups to do so
I won't start cold turkey to terp, but it does nothing to keep them warm for
long enough. even while terping they are cold and i can feel it. any ideas on
gloves or warmers or something that i can wear either while interpreting (and if
this, should match skin tone, right? or at least be something
opposite/contrasting with the color my shirt, right?) or driving and during
preparation time so that i don't hasten injuries by terping cold. (probably
while driving too! ;-)
	 thanks all for your input in advance and hope great afternoon for all of you!
	 nick


	 hope never to be again as you are today.


   _____

	 Do you Yahoo!?
	 Faith Hill <http://faith.yahoo.com>  - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
	 faith.yahoo.com

Hello all!

I apologize again for the dual post, but I also think that both groups have insight that is helpful. ;-)

The school I work in is kept quite cold (rumors have that the A/C is on) and normally that would be no problem, except that I really don't want to terp with cold hands/wrists. It has just started, got a string of cold fronts come through, and I can't seem to keep my wrists/hands warm. I have warm-ups to do so I won't start cold turkey to terp, but it does nothing to keep them warm for long enough. even while terping they are cold and i can feel it. any ideas on gloves or warmers or something that i can wear either while interpreting (and if this, should match skin tone, right? or at least be something opposite/contrasting with the color my shirt, right?) or driving and during preparation time so that i don't hasten injuries by terping cold. (probably while driving too! ;-)

thanks all for your input in advance and hope great afternoon for all of you!

nick

I have been in the first cohort of the Master Mentor Program (we are in our
last couple of months in the internship phase) and I cannot say enough good
things about it. I have had an experience in other online program and so I
feel like I have a good handle to be able to compare online experiences. I
would venture to say that this program has been the BEST learning experience
I have ever had. Betsy Winston runs this and it's such a "comfortable"
environment and when Betsy speaks, it's always a gem and so profound that we
have to sit back and think about it. She is constantly involved with us to
assist, guide, mentor, and to teach but basically the cohort members are
also experienced interpreters, trainers and mentors that we also are able to
share and become a resource to each other exponentially increasing the
benefit of the program. There is a lot of work but that is to be expected of
a graduate level program (but you can get undergrad credit as well.) We have
had guest instructors of such a high caliber that there is NO way that you
can get a similar education over such a long term in any other program.
People such as Dennis Cokely, Sandra Gish, Robert Lee, Christine Monikowski,
and several more whose names you would easily recognize.

There is so much discussion and sharing that it is difficult to keep up BUT
also you don't want to miss a message because there is so much benefit from
all of them! I have all four class messages saved for retrieval later -
worth every minute!!!

I also know that Cindy Roy teaches the Discourse Analysis class - who
BETTER? I have heard some wonderful things about the other classes as well
so, BY FAR, this is the best program to be involved with!!! If you want any
more specific info, please do not hesitate to contact me. I would be more
than happy to provide you with references to the other cohort members and
I'm sure they will say the same thing!!! Thanks for the opportunity to
promote such a wonderful program!!!

Lynne

         -----Original Message-----
         From: Drew, Alysa [mailto:Alysa.Drew@...]
         Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 12:53 PM
         Subject: TIEM

         I was wondering if anyone has taken the TIEM online courses through
the University of Colorado. I am interested, but I've never taken and online
course before, and I'd be interested in learning of others' experiences.
Please email me privately at alysa.drew@...
<mailto:alysa.drew@...>.
         Thanks.
         Alysa Drew
         Interpreter Coordinator
         Pikes Peak Community College
         5675 South Academy Blvd. Box C-30
         Colorado Springs, CO 80906
         719/540-7185 V
         719/579-3155 TTY
         719/540-7075 FAX
         alysa.drew@...

I was wondering if anyone has taken the TIEM online courses through the University of Colorado. I am interested, but I've never taken and online course before, and I'd be interested in learning of others' experiences. Please email me privately at alysa.drew@....

Thanks.

Alysa Drew

Interpreter Coordinator

Pikes Peak Community College

5675 South Academy Blvd.   Box C-30

Colorado Springs, CO  80906

719/540-7185  V

719/579-3155  TTY

719/540-7075  FAX

alysa.drew@...

Tammy,

Thanks for clarifying that the original comments came
from Beth Ann.

One more comment from me on all this...

Of course, Native signers should be the language
models for young Deaf kids.  But when Hearing parents
make the decision to put their kids in a mainstream
program, what do we do?

As I mentioned, I receieved comments about 'lowering'
myself to work in K-12, but I also had comments about
how interpreters should never work K-12, to force the
issue of kids going to Deaf Schools.

I never understood that logic. If the kids are going
to public school, let's make it the best situation
possible for them.

I must say, I did work in an area that had Deaf
Community, so there were other opportunities outside
of school for the kids to meet Deaf Adults.

Judi(mom to two hearies, currently doing little bits
of freelance here and there)




__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

The most highly qualified interpreters SHOULD be the language role models for Deaf children.

I'm one of those old-fashioned types who thinks a whole community of native signers SHOULD be the language models. The extent to which a single interpreter -- however kick-butt she is -- is *the* model is the extent to which the system is out of whack. If all a hearing kid had (in anything other than extreme circumstances, like shipwreck) was access to a single language model, we'd see that for the abuse that it is. And I'm including in that situations where there is no nearby community to speak of. And no, I don't have any feasible ideas for a fix. Any takers?

And of course, the thoughts being expressed in this thread seem to support the concept that if all interpreters went out and got their Bachelors Degrees, then they would be paid as well as teachers (which still sucks by the way)

No question. All we ask for is the ability to be looked down upon not as paraprofessionals, but as true professionals. :-)

Passing anatomy does not make you a doctor.

I knew someone was going to bring up the medical analogy. Would that we deserved it.

Well, perhaps medicine before the 19th century is a more apt comparison. Doctors back then were paid comparatively little, and as a rule, didn't know much more than the patients did. This changed, slowly, with the invention of instrumentation like the stethoscope (during the Napoleonic wars... so sue me), X-rays, etc etc. As the knowledge needed to be a doctor got more complex, pay scales rose.

No, getting an A+ in anatomy (even gross anatomy in med. school) doesn't make you a doctor. For that matter, passing med. school doesn't make you much of a doctor. Not does passing your boards. There is a whole process, which includes extensive hands-on work as an intern and a resident for a reason. Failing any portion of this sure as hell makes you NOT a doctor.

And as long as we're at it, if I didn't see all the right pieces of paper on my doctor's wall, no amount of...

"But I'm a lifelong learner!"
"But I've been treating people all my life!"
"My parents were both patients, you know!"

..... would persuade me to do anything other than SPRINT, not walk, in the other direction.

I've worked with PCC graduates as well, and the quality has not been altogether even. Passing any test on a particular day (including certification) doesn't speak to much more than the fact that one met minimal expectations during a particular two-hour segment.

Which brings me back to the whole anecdotal thing. Where's the research on this issue? I know of one dissertation coming down the pike which looks specifically at educational interpreters. The question is: what decreases the odds of getting a dud interpreter? Until we can back that up with some actual data and analysis, all we're doing is BSing around the water cooler.

Cheers,

-Dan.

--
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
, ,
o/ James Womack \o ,
<| |> __o/
/ > < \ __\__
Website for workshops: http://members.tripod.com/jrwomack
Website for my students: http//www.ccsn.edu/fl/intlang

Hello all,

I'm an interpreting student in Sudbury (Canada) and I would like to thank
all of you that responded to the question I put out on the list last month
regarding Interpreter Safety when working with the police.  This list is
where our real education on the matter came from.  Perhaps we should have
called the Ontario Provincial Police for a guest speaker for our class
rather than the City of Sudbury Police but, no matter, here is what came of
it.

My classmate Alicia and I went to the police station to speak with the two
officers who would be coming to talk to our class one week before their
scheduled presentation.  We went over scenarios with them that we had gotten
both from the list and from our professors.  Their answer always seemed to
be "You would never be in that situation."

Apparently, we would never be called to an accident scene, we would not be
called when they would be serving warrants, we would not be there when they
are making arrests, we won't be called if they have to go into a home with
the Children's Aid Society, etc, etc.

Oh, and absolutely no exception, handcuffs would NEVER be removed.

We told them that all of the scenarios we had gotten were actually real life
experiences from other interpreters who had been in these various
situations.  Apparently, neither police officer assigned to our class had
ever worked with an interpreter before.  And in reality, only one police
officer had actually been assigned to us, the other volunteered to speak to
us because of a vested interest she has.  She has a three year old deaf
daughter with a cochlear implant.  Interesting.

So a week passed and our guest speakers did not do any research other than
the information we gave them and did not prepare a presentation but would
take questions.  Things only started to get interesting when our program
coordinator (who is Deaf) finally arrived and started asking questions.

After a while, it was the police officers who were asking us questions.
Apparently, their Police force has absolutely no policy when dealing with
deaf individuals.  The presentation ended with the officers suggesting to
our professors that they arrange for a workshop for the police department so
that they can learn how to effectively use interpreters when working with
the Deaf commuity.

After the presentation was over, our professors had a private conversation
with them both.  (Have no idea what it was about but I'm sure it was
interesting)

The whole situation really impressed upon us the need to educate the public
on the use of interpreters.

Thanks again to all those of you who enlighten us.

Mary Zaiser
ITP student
Cambrian College
Sudbury, Ontario Canada

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

even in k-12 setting where talking while teacher is is not allowed (usually)?
not even a small
whisper voice, or lower, from where you are to show that there are people
talking? i agree with
equal access, but doesn't/shouldn't that also include getting in trouble for
talking in class? no
matter how low someone's voice is, someone will hear it and by not voicing, i
would think that
would give an opportunity that is not equal? or do the teacher(s) know that if
hands are moving,
from kids, there is talking and you have explained that you don't voice
whispers?

just curious, nothing more. thanks for input!
nick


=====
hope never to be again as you are today.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

***********************
Warning: The message contains too many entities (i.e., message body and attachments). InterScan VirusWall aborted scanning after scanning 10 entities.
***********-***********

Deanne Bray

Page 1 of 7

Add contact/agent

Deanne Bray  Amazon.com     Video   DVD   Soundtrack  Also available:    Books

---

Filmography as: Actress, Notable TV guest appearances

---

Actress - filmography
(2000s) (1990s)

1. "Sue Thomas F.B. Eye" (2002) TV Series .... Sue Thomas
2. Last Mountain (2000) .... Blonde Annie
   
   
3. What Do Women Want (1996) .... Sharon
   ... aka It's Meant to Be (1997) (USA: DVD title)
4. Ed McBain's 87th Precinct: Lightning (1995) (TV) .... Teddy Franklin

---

Filmography as: Actress, Notable TV guest appearances

---

Notable TV guest appearances

1. "C.S.I.: Crime Scene Investigation" (2000) playing "Dr. Gilbert" in episode: "Sounds of Silence" (episode # 1.20) 4/19/2001
2. "Strong Medicine" (2000) in episode: "Fix" (episode # 1.16) 1/7/2001
3. "Diagnosis Murder" (1993) playing "Jan Curran" in episode: "Murder, Country Style" (episode # 4.18) 2/20/1997
4. "Ellen" (1994) playing "Juliet" in episode: "Ellen's Deaf Comedy Jam" (episode # 4.17) 2/12/1997
5. "Pretender, The" (1996) playing "Deaf Woman" in episode: "Flyer" (episode # 1.3) 10/19/1996

----- Original Message -----

From: Rivkah Mentzer

To: TERPS-L@...

Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:18 PM

Subject: Re: FB Eye

Deanne Bray is hard-of-hearing . . . I don't know too much about her, but I did see her at Deaf West Theatre in "Road to Revolution" and "Big River". She's married to a deaf man, Troy Kotsur, who is an actor. I've seen Deanne on several other clips of shows having to deal with deafness, and each time she signed as well as spoke. Sorry I can't tell you more! Maybe you can look her up somewhere. I wasn't able to see the show, so can't tell you what I thought about it, but I hope this helps . . .

:)



On Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 10:00 PM, Chris Owens wrote:

Hey guys...

I watched the show about the deaf woman who works for the FBI.  It aired tonight on PAX TV.  For entertainment value, it was okay.  But again this deaf woman can lip-read every frickin' word that she sees. The latest statistics that I heard mentioned that even very good lipreaders can pick up only around 40% of the words being said, the remaining 60% being pieced together from contextual cues and guesswork.  Anyone know any information about the actress?  Is she really deaf?  The signs she used were clear, as was her voice.  There was an interpreter in her training class, but she had little screen time.  Aside from the fact that it looks like she might perpetuate some myths about deaf people, there seems to be some entertainment value there.  I think I'll watch it again next week. 

What were your impressions? 



Chris Owens, NAD V
Freelance Interpreter
Cincinnati, Ohio
(513) 706-1958 office

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tact: The ability to make someone feel at home, even when you wish they were.

No firing darts from here--I agree with you.  Here in
eastern Iowa, there is little to no monetary incentive
to pursue more qualifications.  Starting pay in some
towns, especially for school districts is horrifyingly
low--one could work at Wal-Mart or McDonald's for the
same pay...

Carissa D. Huffman, CT
Bettendorf, Iowa
--- Tammy Fischer <tjfisch@...> wrote:
> RE: Non-Degreed Interpreters [was: Non-Degreed ITP
> Instructors]Actually, I believe it was Beth Ann who
> spoke about the issues regarding spelling and
> English literacy. I agree with her 100%.  The
> English competency of some interpreters is pi**
> poor!   But Judi's points are also well made
> regarding educational interpreting.
>
> The most highly qualified interpreters SHOULD be the
> language role models for Deaf children.  And of
> course, the thoughts being expressed in this thread
> seem to support the concept that if all interpreters
> went out and got their Bachelors Degrees, then they
> would be paid as well as teachers (which still sucks
> by the way), and not looked on as mere aids or
> paraprofessionals, however, time and again, as
> interpreters have gotten certified (at least in the
> Portland Metropolitan area - Oregon), the school
> districts have made NO moves toward increasing pay
> schedules or improving benefits for interpreters who
> attain higher level skills and/or certification or
> degrees.
>
> There is no incentive for interpreters to do so -
> and at $12.50 an hour, who can afford it?  YES -
> Interpreters should STILL go on and pursue advanced
> training for the good of the profession and their
> own abilities to do their jobs, however this idea
> that we all go out and get degrees and the
> educational world will suddenly welcome us and pay
> us a bunch more money just doesn't bear out in
> actual practice.
>
> Finally, I can't remember who made the comment that
> many Interpreter Training Programs require passage
> of the RID Written exam in order to graduate from
> their programs,  but my response to that is a
> rousing SO WHAT? Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN FILL
> OUT PAPERWORK DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN INTERPRET!!! What
> happens when you pick up your hands?  Do you have
> Deaf people looking at you like you are signing in
> Swahili? Can you voice interpret?  Or are you one of
> those interpreters who when your team interpreter
> arrives you say, "Can you do all the voicing, I
> don't really do that very well?"  Passing anatomy
> does not make you a doctor.
>
> Here ends my tirade - I have ceased to don
> protective armor - take your best shots!! :-)
>
> Tammera J. Fischer, CI & CT; NAD IV
> Certified Sign Language Interpreter
> (503) 267-4861 (V)
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Drew, Alysa
>   To: TERPS-L@...
>   Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:53 AM
>   Subject: Re: Non-Degreed Interpreters [was:
> Non-Degreed ITP Instructors]
>
>
>   I'm afraid I have to agree with you, Judi. I have
> tried to put it off to poor typing skills, rather
> than poor English skills, but the fact is, we're
> language people. We should have an excellent command
> of both languages in which we work. The occasional
> error is understandable - a typo - I do it all the
> time, but appropriate grammar is important.
>
>   However, one of the problems may be the
> informality of email. Some people don't see it as a
> necessary thing to write well and accurately,
> assuming we'll just understand. However, I, too, am
> often distracted, and tend to just delete the posts
> without reading them fully. It's frustrating, and I
> guess I'm an education snob or something, but I'd
> rather read something that's well written.
>
>   Soapbox tucked safely back in closet...I am yours,
> critically,
>
>   Alysa
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>   From:   Judi Webb [mailto:utuqu@...]
>   Sent:   Sunday, October 13, 2002 3:34 PM
>   To:     TERPS-L@...
>   Subject:        Re: Non-Degreed Interpreters [was:
> Non-Degreed ITP Instructors]
>
>   Beth Ann wrote:
>    >To interpret effectively, we need fluency in
> both
>   languages.  I am shocked when I read postings by
>   interpreters who can't spell "interpreter".
>   I am dismayed when I see postings by k-12
> interpreters
>   and I can't follow their logic
>   because I am distracted by poor spelling and
> language
>   use.  And I ache for the deaf students who are
> forced
>   to do extra work to mentally translate what these
>   interpreters are trying to convey.<
>
>   I am an RID Certified interpreter, and have been
> since
>   1986. I  attended a 1 year certificate program,
> plus I
>   have four years of college, much of it relating to
>
>   bilingual education.
>
>   I was a staff interpreter at a college for 3
> years,
>   then took a job at an elementary school. Imagine
> my
>   surprise when people questioned why I, a certified
>
>   interpreter, was 'lowering' myself to do public
> school
>   work with kids!
>
>   By the way, that was probably the best, most fun,
>   challenging job I ever had!
>
>   Judi Webb
>
>
>
>   __________________________________________________
>
>   Do you Yahoo!?
>   Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
>
>   http://faith.yahoo.com
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Parvaz

To: TERPS-L@...

Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 2:23 PM

Subject: Re: Non-Degreed Interpreters [was: Non-Degreed ITP Instructors]

The most highly qualified interpreters SHOULD be the language role models for Deaf children.

I'm one of those old-fashioned types who thinks a whole community of native signers SHOULD be the language models. The extent to which a single interpreter -- however kick-butt she is -- is *the* model is the extent to which the system is out of whack. If all a hearing kid had (in anything other than extreme circumstances, like shipwreck) was access to a single language model, we'd see that for the abuse that it is. And I'm including in that situations where there is no nearby community to speak of. And no, I don't have any feasible ideas for a fix. Any takers?

And of course, the thoughts being expressed in this thread seem to support the concept that if all interpreters went out and got their Bachelors Degrees, then they would be paid as well as teachers (which still sucks by the way)

No question. All we ask for is the ability to be looked down upon not as paraprofessionals, but as true professionals. :-)

Passing anatomy does not make you a doctor.

I knew someone was going to bring up the medical analogy. Would that we deserved it.

Well, perhaps medicine before the 19th century is a more apt comparison. Doctors back then were paid comparatively little, and as a rule, didn't know much more than the patients did. This changed, slowly, with the invention of instrumentation like the stethoscope (during the Napoleonic wars... so sue me), X-rays, etc etc. As the knowledge needed to be a doctor got more complex, pay scales rose.

No, getting an A+ in anatomy (even gross anatomy in med. school) doesn't make you a doctor. For that matter, passing med. school doesn't make you much of a doctor. Not does passing your boards. There is a whole process, which includes extensive hands-on work as an intern and a resident for a reason. Failing any portion of this sure as hell makes you NOT a doctor.

And as long as we're at it, if I didn't see all the right pieces of paper on my doctor's wall, no amount of...

"But I'm a lifelong learner!"
"But I've been treating people all my life!"
"My parents were both patients, you know!"

.... would persuade me to do anything other than SPRINT, not walk, in the other direction.

I've worked with PCC graduates as well, and the quality has not been altogether even. Passing any test on a particular day (including certification) doesn't speak to much more than the fact that one met minimal expectations during a particular two-hour segment.

Which brings me back to the whole anecdotal thing. Where's the research on this issue? I know of one dissertation coming down the pike which looks specifically at educational interpreters. The question is: what decreases the odds of getting a dud interpreter? Until we can back that up with some actual data and analysis, all we're doing is BSing around the water cooler.

Cheers,

-Dan.

I loved the dog.  Jumped right in the bathtub.  One of my dogs could have
easily played this role :)

Dan
*******************************************************************
Daniel B. Swartz, Ph.D., CI, CT
Certified Interpreter for the Deaf
360 Translations International, Inc.
Approved Statewide Vendor for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Mobile Therapist/Behavioral Specialist Consultant
Interpreting Products at www.360translations.com - tools for interpreters by
interpreters!

Co-Owner
The Pet Zone - www.thepetzone.com - a retail pet store
HC 6, Box 6011
Lake Wallenpaupack, PA 18428
"Behind Gary's Texaco"

Visit our on-line pet store - The Pet Zone, at
http://www.auctionworks.com/store/default.asp?sfid=15231

Visit our shopping page at http://www.deafsite.com/theirstores.htm -
proceeds go to help animals in need!

Shop our many auctions on eBay at
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=holden20777
&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 - all proceeds go to animals in need!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bertha Brown" <Larash3@...>
To: <TERPS-L@...>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: FB Eye


> Did you see the one where Gil is starting to lose his hearing.
> Do you think they will try to put a cochlear implant in him?
> It will be interesting to see how they develope this.
> Bertha
>
>

Did you see the one where Gil is starting to lose his hearing.
Do you think they will try to put a cochlear implant in him?
It will be interesting to see how they develope this.
Bertha

> The most highly qualified interpreters SHOULD be the language role
> models for Deaf children.

I'm one of those old-fashioned types who thinks a whole community of
native signers SHOULD be the language models. The extent to which a
single interpreter -- however kick-butt she is -- is *the* model is the
extent to which the system is out of whack. If all a hearing kid had
(in anything other than extreme circumstances, like shipwreck) was
access to a single language model, we'd see that for the abuse that it
is. And I'm including in that situations where there is no nearby
community to speak of. And no, I don't have any feasible ideas for a
fix. Any takers?

>  And of course, the thoughts being expressed in this thread seem to
> support the concept that if all interpreters went out and got their
> Bachelors Degrees, then they would be paid as well as teachers (which
> still sucks by the way)

No question. All we ask for is the ability to be looked down upon not
as paraprofessionals, but as true professionals. :-)

> Passing anatomy does not make you a doctor.

I knew someone was going to bring up the medical analogy. Would that we
deserved it.

Well, perhaps medicine before the 19th century is a more apt
comparison. Doctors back then were paid comparatively little, and as a
rule, didn't know much more than the patients did. This changed,
slowly, with the invention of instrumentation like the stethoscope
(during the Napoleonic wars... so sue me), X-rays, etc etc. As the
knowledge needed to be a doctor got more complex, pay scales rose.

No, getting an A+ in anatomy (even gross anatomy in med. school)
doesn't make you a doctor. For that matter, passing med. school doesn't
make you much of a doctor. Not does passing your boards. There is a
whole process, which includes extensive hands-on work as an intern and
a resident for a reason. Failing any portion of this sure as hell makes
you NOT a doctor.

And as long as we're at it, if I didn't see all the right pieces of
paper on my doctor's wall, no amount of...

"But I'm a lifelong learner!"
"But I've been treating people all my life!"
"My parents were both patients, you know!"

.... would persuade me to do anything other than SPRINT, not walk, in
the other direction.

I've worked with PCC graduates as well, and the quality has not been
altogether even. Passing any test on a particular day (including
certification) doesn't speak to much more than the fact that one met
minimal expectations during a particular two-hour segment.

Which brings me back to the whole anecdotal thing. Where's the research
on this issue? I know of one dissertation coming down the pike which
looks specifically at educational interpreters. The question is: what
decreases the odds of getting a dud interpreter? Until we can back that
up with some actual data and analysis, all we're doing is BSing around
the water cooler.

Cheers,

-Dan.