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Time to learn TDD and impact on productivity?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #29461 of 32000 |
Two recent conversations I've had, leave me with questions about my
assumptions in how long it takes to really learn TDD and the short term
effects on productivity.

Ideally I would like pointers to peer review studies (I seem to remember a
few kicking around at Agile 2007, but can't find them now). Failing that
anecdotal would a be good start.

1) How long does it take to get a developer back to where they were before
in terms of productivity?
2) To become really productive? I.E. more so than they were before.

In both cases it can be assumed the developers are working as part of
supportive agile, have had training, access to books and ongoing coding
dojos (http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/tdd-randori-workshop.html).
Effectively with everything put in place so they can succeed.

3) What is the effect on their productivity during the learning period?
Guesstimates will be fine here. In this case the point is to communicate
with management and make clear what effects the adoption of TDD will have in
the short term. Yes of course will emphasize reduction in complexity and
therefore the improved quality.

Cheers
Mark Levison

Blog: http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/
Recent Entries: Agile/Scrum Smells:
http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/06/agilescrum-smells.html
Agile Games for Making Retrospectives Interesting:
http://www.notesfromatooluser.com/2008/10/agile-games-for-making-retrospectives-\
interesting.html



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Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:51 pm

marklevison
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Message #29461 of 32000 |
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Two recent conversations I've had, leave me with questions about my assumptions in how long it takes to really learn TDD and the short term effects on...
Mark Levison
marklevison
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Nov 27, 2008
8:51 pm

1) 3 months 2) 6+ months 3) 50% as productive but higher quality code Casey Charlton http://devlicio.us/blogs/casey ... [Non-text portions of this message have...
Casey Charlton
caseycharlton69
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Nov 27, 2008
10:06 pm

... How do you measure productivity? And what do you mean by quality? Easier to maintain? Or less defects? In either case, are you factoring that into the...
Nat Pryce
nat_pryce
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Nov 27, 2008
10:27 pm

... Nat as I'm sure you know this has been hotly debated on AgileProjectManagement recently. In this case I'm sure all answers will be by gut feel - which...
Mark Levison
marklevison
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Nov 27, 2008
10:33 pm

... Aren't both issues at the core of the thread? If you measure productivity in "lines-of-system-code-written-per-day" the benefit of TDD will look very...
Nat Pryce
nat_pryce
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Nov 27, 2008
10:51 pm

... I assume that most in this group are intuitively measuring using one of the latter two - I can't imagine anyone (including our management) thinking that...
Mark Levison
marklevison
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Nov 27, 2008
11:28 pm

... That's why I was querying the statement that TDD initially makes a team "50% as productive but [produce] higher quality code". It sounds as if the quality...
Nat Pryce
nat_pryce
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Nov 27, 2008
11:58 pm

50% lines of code, or 50% deliverables completed And yes easier to maintain and with less bugs Casey Charlton http://devlicio.us/blogs/casey ... [Non-text...
Casey Charlton
caseycharlton69
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Nov 28, 2008
7:15 am

... I can only speak for myself, but I'd say it took two or three weeks. ... In my case, a couple months. It was when I discovered I'd made a tremendous...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
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Nov 28, 2008
3:20 am

I'd say my experience was similar. I had read a fair bit before starting my first real TDD project but getting a handle on it all took a while (few weeks?)....
Mark
walkersretreat
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Nov 28, 2008
4:24 am

... I have seen some of these studies (No links. If I feel inclined later I may look them up.) For the most part they tend to look favorable for TDD and show...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Nov 28, 2008
6:36 am

Mark; I can only speak for myself. I did some TDD-reading during december 2006, maybe a week or two. Primarily tutorials on the net / the main ideas. No book....
Olof Bjarnason
olof.bjarnason@...
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Nov 28, 2008
7:29 am

I forgot to say thanks for all the feedback. Its been useful to a colleague who is talking to her uber manager about the short term effects that adopting TDD...
Mark Levison
marklevison
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Dec 4, 2008
9:07 pm

There's a recent article from MS research which claims that "the pre- release defect density of the four products decreased between 40% and 90% relative to...
Steve Freeman
smg_freeman
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Dec 8, 2008
12:13 am

... I'm coming late to the party, but I can still share my one data point on the subject. I had spent 3 months building a Java 1.2 or 1.3 component in 2000. I ...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
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Jan 18, 2009
7:35 am

... You mean like shipping a platform that defaults to RSpec, a BDD system, for its TDD layer?...
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Jan 18, 2009
7:18 pm

... Seems sensible to me :) Pat...
Pat Maddox
burritoooboy
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Jan 18, 2009
10:16 pm

... Explains why Merb is so clear and easy to get started with......
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Jan 18, 2009
10:30 pm

... Merb's issue is that in their quest to be so modular, they forgot to ship a default stack that "just worked." That's a lot different now with 1.0 where...
Pat Maddox
burritoooboy
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Jan 18, 2009
10:42 pm

... I'm stuck on... spec_helper.rb:21: uninitialized constant Merb::Test::ViewHelper...
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Jan 18, 2009
11:00 pm
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