Hi Roy ... I think it started to become apparent to me when i started seeing teams were dancing the test first dance without leveraging it beyond the ...
35179
Bill Wake
wwake2
Jun 24, 2012 3:32 pm
Roy - My recollection is similar to yours, that test-first programming was the earlier name for Test-Driven Development, and the process included refactoring....
35180
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 24, 2012 5:40 pm
John, Sorry for the delayed response... it has been a celebratory week for many in SE Michigan as GM and Ford are now very transparently (openly) embarked upon...
35181
John Roth
jhrothjr
Jun 24, 2012 6:36 pm
... That was around quite a bit longer; I remember it being discussed back in the 80s. I never saw it actually used, though. John Roth ... [Non-text portions...
35182
RonJeffries
ronaldejeffries
Jun 24, 2012 9:41 pm
So, from this, it appears that this code was not produced using anything like TDD, is that correct? ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com There's no word for...
35183
Esko Luontola
egeluontola
Jun 24, 2012 11:22 pm
... I too have been publishing a similar series: http://www.orfjackal.net/lets-code -- Esko Luontola www.orfjackal.net...
35184
Kay A Pentecost
tranzpuppy
Jun 25, 2012 1:28 am
Hi, Esko, I like the way yours looks when I maximize the screen. Very readable. I *will* take a look, but I don't know Java, and that slows me down. Thanks! ...
35185
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 25, 2012 10:57 am
Ron, I used the "test" to drive the design. After six complete redesigns the sequencing may not be obvious. This is typical of how I practise/teach using...
35186
RonJeffries
ronaldejeffries
Jun 25, 2012 11:23 am
Marvin, ... Six complete redesigns and only one test? That may be something good but it is not remotely what I would expect to see if you were actually doing...
35187
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
Jun 25, 2012 1:21 pm
Industrial Logic has a lot of unique eLearning courses, which include forums and updates and a lifetime subscription: http://goo.gl/ilEyk I am a member of...
35188
Steve Freeman
smg_freeman
Jun 25, 2012 1:33 pm
I think you're right about the early days, not least because the process is so much clearer when developing in Smalltalk. Later, as the technique spread and...
35189
Rob M
xyphrnld0x
Jun 25, 2012 4:25 pm
Bill et al, When my team first used XP in 1998, two of the practices were "test-first" and "merciless refactoring." When Kent published the TDD book, I read...
35190
Josue Barbosa dos San...
josuebsantos
Jun 25, 2012 7:04 pm
... It was already in my towatch list. Thanks. -- Abraços, Josué http://twitter.com/josuesantos ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
35191
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 26, 2012 10:32 am
Ron, /me sighs. I have many tests which I've made publicily available... I happened to pick one as an example... to demonstrate nuances that differentiate a...
35192
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 26, 2012 12:26 pm
What would you consider a pracitcal limit for refactoring based on a unit test... sounds like you get to a good outcome in less than six?...
35193
Josue Barbosa dos San...
josuebsantos
Jun 26, 2012 1:44 pm
People, I think this link http://dannorth.net/the-art-of-misdirection/ should interest you once Dan North uses the TDD to construct his argument. -- Abraços, ...
35194
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 26, 2012 2:07 pm
There is another possibility... one could say something like... 'I don't like the API... and if you had approached it differently a more pleasing outcome might...
35195
Alan Baljeu
alanbaljeu
Jun 26, 2012 4:24 pm
"What would you consider a practical limit for refactoring based on a unit test... sounds like you get to a good outcome in less than six?" It's simple,...
35196
Alan Baljeu
alanbaljeu
Jun 26, 2012 4:28 pm
Hang on. You're saying you write a test describing a use of an object, then write the code, then change your mind about how you want to use this object? So...
35197
Edmund Schweppe
ed_schweppe
Jun 26, 2012 5:11 pm
+1 (even if somewhat belatedly) ... Edmund Schweppe ed@......
35198
Edmund Schweppe
ed_schweppe
Jun 26, 2012 7:15 pm
... I'm glad that you found developing that code to be significant (and, I presume, useful) to you. I further presume that you did not develop that code using...
35199
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 26, 2012 10:26 pm
The evolution of this API included the following using 'loose sequencing': 1. Write a test with a presumed API. 2. Write the functional code. 3. Look at both...
35200
Alan Baljeu
alanbaljeu
Jun 26, 2012 11:46 pm
So in fact we are talking about designing the user interface of a library (users being other programmers). And concurrently spiking the implementation to get...
35201
Kay A Pentecost
tranzpuppy
Jun 27, 2012 12:02 am
Hey, Edmund, How are you? Thanks for calling out the single Assert and the fact that it can never fail. I think the first post I ever made to the XP list was...
35202
Edmund Schweppe
ed_schweppe
Jun 27, 2012 1:45 am
... [ snip ] ... I spotted four try-finally blocks, three of which appear to be identical except for the number of tasks. I'd probably first refactor the...
35203
Kay A Pentecost
tranzpuppy
Jun 27, 2012 3:29 am
Thank you!! Kay...
35204
Gishu Pillai
gishu_pillai
Jun 27, 2012 7:50 am
I read this a week or so ago. This is similar to the Lean Startup advice. The premise being you do not know what is required. So you make an assumption,...
35205
Russell Gold
russgold
Jun 27, 2012 9:08 am
... Really? I suppose it depends on what "just sketching something out" means. If he means, "do an informal object diagram" or "write a summary of the intended...
35206
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 27, 2012 10:36 am
Thank you Kay... It was a chaotic road... and a fresh set of eyes is helpful... I'll get an updated posted this evening. _Marvin...
35207
MarvinToll.com
y153446
Jun 27, 2012 11:06 am
... hmmm ... anytime we design a method aren't we "storyboarding a GUI"??? Said another way, as we move from worrying exclusively about whether the execution...
