I'm trying to help a friend get into a decent entry level system (used).  Say
at the Rotel/NAD level.  I'm not going to go out and spend time auditioning
speakers, my friend will appreciate <whatever> a great deal more than their
plastic mini system.  Thinking ~$200-250 (Canadian pesos) for speakers.  They
listen to all kinds of music from Chopin to Eurythmics.
What is your favourite from among:  KEF Coda 7, Paradigm Titans, PSB Alphas,
B&W 201's (I had a pair of these once),  or any others..  Signet? Tannoy?


thanks.
Noam

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Maggies are a difficult load for most amps, for various reasons.  They're not
sensitive and are low impedance (also I believe the impedance curve is not
very flat, which is hard on tube amps in particular).  All this puts a drain
on the amp's power supply so the amp is always 'struggling' to deliver (if
anyone can explain this better, go for it).  The Cary is doing quite a bit
better than the Jolida 502.  It's a more solid amp altogether.. still not an
ideal match but better.  The Jolidas aren't bad for the money though.  I'm
finding the Maggies aren't very versatile but I guess it depends what you're
asking them to do.  They "do a lot" but they don't "do everything" (seinfeld
joke).

Noam


---Graham Gibson  wrote:
>
> Noam,
>
> I am also unhappily running Maggies (I's) with a Jolida. I am thinking about
> upgrading my amp and can't decide to look at tubes or SS. I love the
> "planar" sound and do not want to go back to a box speaker. So: How does the
> Cary sound with your Maggies? Have you had any experience with the Maggies
> and some good SS gear?
>
> Regards,
>
> Graham
>
>
> >
> >Which Maggies do you have Alex?  (I like mine also but am also looking at a
> >pair of Coincidents, and will be getting them on loan soon.  I have a Cary
> >tube amp).
> >
> >p.s. another guy I like to deal with is Ian at Audio Excellence (Richmond
> Hill).
> >
> >NB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Cool to see so many Canadain companies doing this stuff - unfortunately,
> >> some of them like to charge in U.S. dollars (as in Sonic Frontiers).  I am
> >currently
> >> using a pair of Magneplanar speakers, and I think that it would be
> interesting
> >> to go to a good efficient speaker (like the coincident), so that I can
> >eventualy
> >> migrate to single ended triode amp - I currently have a Jadis Orchestra
> >which is quite good.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Alex.
> >>
> >>
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> >> > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 6:35 PM
> >> > To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> >> > Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: kicking off things..
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > X-No-Archive: yes
> >> >
> >> > I was at the show on the Sunday for a few hours.  Generally I hate the
> >> > atmosphere at these things but I had a free pass and it is a good way to
> >see a
> >> > lot of stuff in one place.  However, the show conflicted with a
> European CES
> >> > in London, and many of the big high end brands were not represented.
Some
> >of
> >> > those who did NOT show up were Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Cello
> >> > (Levinson), Cary Audio, Jadis, Manley Labs, Martin-Logan, Apogee, Linn,
> >> > Magnepan, CAT and Audio Note just to name a few that I would have liked
to
> >> > see/hear.
> >> >
> >> > The best sound at the show IMHO was in the Classe/Gershman room.  The
> top of
> >> > the line Gershmans ($10k) played superbly and the high end Classe stuff
> >> > sounded much better than their 'mere mortal' line.  High marks also to
the
> >> > Coincident setup (another Canadian speaker) with Pass and Rogue
electronics
> >> > and both digital and analog front ends. This setup might have been #1
> if the
> >> > new top of the line Coincident Millenium was there.
> >> >
> >> > Another great sounding room was the OCM/Meadow Song Labs setup.  The
> >> > Canadian-made MSL's are very similar to Martin-Logans, in fact I've read
> >that
> >> > there are legal battles over copyrights.  The Blue Circle/Von Schweikert
> >setup
> >> > also seemed to have a lot of potential but they were playing things on it
> >that
> >> > I can barely classify as music (more like synthesized far eastern
> >experimental
> >> > sounds, very strange).  Why not play music we can reference?
> >> >
> >> > Overall I would give the show a 6/10 rating.  Good effort by those who
> >> > participated and nice to see so many Canadian products competing
> >favourably in
> >> > the high end.
> >> >
> >> > Noam
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >> Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
> >> at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
> >>
> >
> >______________________________________________________________________
> >
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> >at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
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I would prefer that we keep the video stuff away from the
list, however the dolby question is o.k.!  Personaly, I have
never had a "System with Dolby" that I cared for (Cassette
decks e.t.c.).  I have found that always, much was lost
in compression and decompression of signal.  I believe that
this month's Stereophile (oh oh , there is that magazine
again) has an extensive discussion of the future of audio,
and dolby.  I don't know how well it works in Video...
Denon is probably better then Yamaha, if I remember my
low(mid?)-fi days well enough :)

A.M.

I am a low (no? :-) budget audiophile, and as such, none of my current
                    componentry is worth even mentioning here.  I am curious to
know what the
                    general recommendation is for a decent A/V receiver.  I've
heard good things
                    about Denon's and Yamaha's offerings.  My current A/V
receiver is a Sony
                    mid-range from about 7 years ago.  Any particular
recommendation here?  I
                    really want to spend less than $1k, but could go over a
little.

                    (If this is off-topic for this list, just say so and I'll
shut up :-)

                    Thanks,

                    Mike.

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I am a low (no? :-) budget audiophile, and as such, none of my current
componentry is worth even mentioning here.  I am curious to know what the
general recommendation is for a decent A/V receiver.  I've heard good things
about Denon's and Yamaha's offerings.  My current A/V receiver is a Sony
mid-range from about 7 years ago.  Any particular recommendation here?  I
really want to spend less than $1k, but could go over a little.

(If this is off-topic for this list, just say so and I'll shut up :-)

Thanks,

Mike.

--

======================================================================
Mike Frisch
Software Engineer
Hummingbird Communications Ltd.            North York, Ontario, Canada

            Disclaimer: I speak for myself, not my employer
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> The chesky 96/24s I have (Daves True Story, Rebecca Pidgeon)
sound a bit
                   > dry.  I know what you mean by lifeless, well, not lifeless,
just a bit dry.
                   > Maybe its really the true hall ambience coming through..
dunno yet.  I have
                   > not picked up any MLP recordings.  Then again, I don't have
a true 24 bit
                   > dac so maybe I am missing something.

                   Without exception, I find all "audiophile" CDs to be shrill,
dry and
                   lacking in depth.  I think that perhaps most of the new
recordings are
                   done with too many microphones.  I don't know about you, but I
don't
                   listen to a saxaphone with my head inside the bell!

I think that Chesky uses minimalist miking techniques,
just like Mercury Living Presence.  They seem to record
everything in a church in New York somewhere...  Four Marys
album - Rebecca Pidgeon (Chesky) has realy good imaging,
and depth, however it is still somewhat dry...

A.M.
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>1) Tube users:  do you use EL34 s?  Which brand are you using and
                    >why do you like them or not like them?

                    Heh, I am another one of those SS guys.  I have never owned
any tube gear.
                    I think if I could find a Tube Headphone amp, I would buy one
just because I
                    like the look of tubes. :)

I saw a few of them advertised in the "listener" magazine,
however I don't think that they come cheap...
In general, I find it kind of difficult to justify buying
headphones, considering the expense and time I put into
organizing and setting up speakers.  Gosh I wonder if there
is a sweet spot somewhere in my head once I put on
headphones - hmm this is for another day...


                    >2) Speaker placement:  I am trying to figure out whether
Magnepans should
                    >be toed in at all.  I tried it and I did not have good
results.  What is
                    >your philosophy behind speaker placement?  What has worked
for you and what
                    has
                    >not...

                    Speaker placement for me is a balance between a sweet spot
and a wide
                    soundstage.  With Electrostatics or planar magnetics, the
horizontal
                    dispersion is fairly limited (it seems to me), so it really
depends on
                    whether you are listening by yourself or with others.  The
only thing my
                    fiance said about which speakers I buy is that we have to be
able to listen
                    together.  :)    So I have dynamic speakers.  I will probably
pick up some
                    electrostatics at some later date for my personal enjoyment. 
All of the
                    systems I have had follow the same basic rules.  Speakers out
from the rear
                    wall until I lose depth of soundstage, but with controlled
bass response.  I
                    place them apart in an equilateral triangle from my seating
area, I toe them
                    into to get the best balance.  Something you hardly ever hear
people talking
                    about is the height of their listening chair.  I have been to
peoples houses
                    to hear their systems and found that by slouching, or sitting
up more I
                    could get a more defined sweet spot.  Speakers come in all
different
                    heights, and vertical dispersion is in some ways more
imporant (and more
                    limited) than horizontal.  You never really hear people talk
about tweaking
                    their listening height, I guess people are just happy with
their favorite
                    chair. :)

It is interesting to note, the height with dynamic speakers,
however, what about the planar speakers?  Since, they are
planar, you would think that you would have the same
height throughout!  After all, the speakers are sending
sound ghroughout full height!

                    The Stereophile article was very good and I will use that as
a guideline in
                    the future.

                    >3) CD recorded music:  I have a whole lot of Mercury Living
Presence
                    >recordings,
                    >and a bunch of brand new recordings from Chesky (96/24
format - Rebecca
                    >Pidgeon e.t.c.),
                    >and I am not sure which one I like better.  Chesky is much
quieter, however

The Rebeca Pidgeon Chesky - Four Marys album is pretty
good....  The Raven is somewhat disappointing...
I liked the Dave's True Story, however, you are right,
it is somewhat on the dry side...

MLP are mostly classical, that were recorded in the late
50s and early to mid 60s.  The sound is AWESOME!  They are
kind of hard to get in LP now, however even the CD reissues
are amazing.  Let me know if you are interested, and I will
e-mail you a list of realy good MLP CDs.  Since they are
originaly analog, they are selling very cheaply at HMV -
$12.99 to $17.99!!!


                    >MLP seems
                    >to have more "life".  Different kind of music though - MLP
is classical,
                    >Chesky is
                    >mostly small groups performing (folk music e.t.c.)
                    >

                    The chesky 96/24s I have (Daves True Story, Rebecca Pidgeon)
sound a bit
                    dry.  I know what you mean by lifeless, well, not lifeless,
just a bit dry.
                    Maybe its really the true hall ambience coming through..
dunno yet.  I have
                    not picked up any MLP recordings.  Then again, I don't have a
true 24 bit
                    dac so maybe I am missing something.

                    >4) What are your speaker cable preferences - flat, round, or
"waterhose
                    >thick"?
                    >Anyone use Silver?
                    >

                    All of my cables are home built.  I am an electronics
engineer, or at least
                    I was, I am now one of those middle/upper management types
who only thinks
                    he remembers how to do things. :)

                    There are some excellent DIY cable projects out there on the
web. I have
                    dissected a few high end cables, usually what I find the the
scrap bins at
                    local audio stores and found that most of these cables are
built out of
                    readily available materials (pre-existing cable), and quite
overpriced for
                    what they are, even given normal 3-5x multipliers from cost
of goods.
                    Currently my speaker cables are built from Belden Coax,  I
have loaned them
                    out to several people and found them very hard to get back so
I have learned
                    to keep my experiments in house. :)    The next set will be a
real carpet
                    snake, at least 2" thick as the core will be constructed of
some very heavy
                    and thick Teflon tubing.  I doubt it will make any difference
in sound, but
                    it sure will look impressive.  My fiance oops, she says thats
Fiance with a
                    capital F, really likes the whole setup, she enjoys the music
and thinks all
                    the big cables look very high tech.  Thats why shes the
Fiance.  Guess I am

Fiance's and music hmm - you wouldn't be hiding anywhere
in her CD collection (which will soon be integrated
with your CD collection) any Celine Dione?  But now I am
being a sexist pig... :)

                    lucky that way.   The interconnects I am going to be building
next will be
                    made of pure silver wire cores and shields.  Teflon as the
insulator (inner
                    and outer).

There was a DIY session about that in the Listener magazine,
they even mentioned where to get the wire!!

p.s. I think that you will find at least one more ex
electronics engineer on this list :) (not me, a friend
of mine - co-moderator of this group).

                    Brick






                   
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Aleksandar Matijaca wrote:

> > Second, whoever mentioned that show on the 18th, can you
> > give me a little more info.
>
> Ditto about the show!  This could be interesting!

I'm just at the office and left the card at home.  I'll send the
information along later.  It's 4$ to get in and absolutely loaded with
LPs and CDs.  If you're not claustraphobic you'll be fine.  I've been
told it's the biggest show in Canada.

More to come....
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Brick Eksten wrote:

> Heh, I am another one of those SS guys.  I have never owned any tube gear.
> I think if I could find a Tube Headphone amp, I would buy one just because I
> like the look of tubes. :)

Yes, but you don't need a headphone amplifier with solid state gear! 8-)

> Speaker placement for me is a balance between a sweet spot and a wide
> soundstage.  With Electrostatics or planar magnetics, the horizontal
> dispersion is fairly limited (it seems to me), so it really depends on
> whether you are listening by yourself or with others.

I'll drink to that.  I like wide soundstage and 180 degree dispersion.
I get that with my dynamic speakers.  Also, I like to listen to very
dynamic music and the 'stats I've auditioned fall to pieces when you
goose the volume up to "real" listening levels.

> The chesky 96/24s I have (Daves True Story, Rebecca Pidgeon) sound a bit
> dry.  I know what you mean by lifeless, well, not lifeless, just a bit dry.
> Maybe its really the true hall ambience coming through.. dunno yet.  I have
> not picked up any MLP recordings.  Then again, I don't have a true 24 bit
> dac so maybe I am missing something.

Without exception, I find all "audiophile" CDs to be shrill, dry and
lacking in depth.  I think that perhaps most of the new recordings are
done with too many microphones.  I don't know about you, but I don't
listen to a saxaphone with my head inside the bell!

> There are some excellent DIY cable projects out there on the web. I have
> dissected a few high end cables, usually what I find the the scrap bins at
> local audio stores and found that most of these cables are built out of
> readily available materials (pre-existing cable), and quite overpriced for
> what they are, even given normal 3-5x multipliers from cost of goods.
> Currently my speaker cables are built from Belden Coax,  I have loaned them
> out to several people and found them very hard to get back so I have learned
> to keep my experiments in house. :)    The next set will be a real carpet
> snake, at least 2" thick as the core will be constructed of some very heavy
> and thick Teflon tubing.  I doubt it will make any difference in sound, but
> it sure will look impressive.  My fiance oops, she says thats Fiance with a
> capital F, really likes the whole setup, she enjoys the music and thinks all
> the big cables look very high tech.  Thats why shes the Fiance.  Guess I am
> lucky that way.   The interconnects I am going to be building next will be
> made of pure silver wire cores and shields.  Teflon as the insulator (inner
> and outer).

Have you considered using some Andrew Heliax?  8-)
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Noam,

I am also unhappily running Maggies (I's) with a Jolida. I am thinking about
upgrading my amp and can't decide to look at tubes or SS. I love the
"planar" sound and do not want to go back to a box speaker. So: How does the
Cary sound with your Maggies? Have you had any experience with the Maggies
and some good SS gear?

Regards,

Graham


>
>Which Maggies do you have Alex?  (I like mine also but am also looking at a
>pair of Coincidents, and will be getting them on loan soon.  I have a Cary
>tube amp).
>
>p.s. another guy I like to deal with is Ian at Audio Excellence (Richmond
Hill).
>
>NB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...> wrote:
>>
>> Cool to see so many Canadain companies doing this stuff - unfortunately,
>> some of them like to charge in U.S. dollars (as in Sonic Frontiers).  I am
>currently
>> using a pair of Magneplanar speakers, and I think that it would be
interesting
>> to go to a good efficient speaker (like the coincident), so that I can
>eventualy
>> migrate to single ended triode amp - I currently have a Jadis Orchestra
>which is quite good.
>>
>> Cheers, Alex.
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
>> > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 6:35 PM
>> > To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
>> > Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: kicking off things..
>> >
>> >
>> > X-No-Archive: yes
>> >
>> > I was at the show on the Sunday for a few hours.  Generally I hate the
>> > atmosphere at these things but I had a free pass and it is a good way to
>see a
>> > lot of stuff in one place.  However, the show conflicted with a
European CES
>> > in London, and many of the big high end brands were not represented.  Some
>of
>> > those who did NOT show up were Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Cello
>> > (Levinson), Cary Audio, Jadis, Manley Labs, Martin-Logan, Apogee, Linn,
>> > Magnepan, CAT and Audio Note just to name a few that I would have liked to
>> > see/hear.
>> >
>> > The best sound at the show IMHO was in the Classe/Gershman room.  The
top of
>> > the line Gershmans ($10k) played superbly and the high end Classe stuff
>> > sounded much better than their 'mere mortal' line.  High marks also to the
>> > Coincident setup (another Canadian speaker) with Pass and Rogue electronics
>> > and both digital and analog front ends. This setup might have been #1
if the
>> > new top of the line Coincident Millenium was there.
>> >
>> > Another great sounding room was the OCM/Meadow Song Labs setup.  The
>> > Canadian-made MSL's are very similar to Martin-Logans, in fact I've read
>that
>> > there are legal battles over copyrights.  The Blue Circle/Von Schweikert
>setup
>> > also seemed to have a lot of potential but they were playing things on it
>that
>> > I can barely classify as music (more like synthesized far eastern
>experimental
>> > sounds, very strange).  Why not play music we can reference?
>> >
>> > Overall I would give the show a 6/10 rating.  Good effort by those who
>> > participated and nice to see so many Canadian products competing
>favourably in
>> > the high end.
>> >
>> > Noam
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
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>> at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
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>
>

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Don't know about mathematical models - I try to divide the
room into 3s and 5s and take it from there... My room is
kind of "funky" space wise, so speaker placement, and non
reflective material placement is a key issue!  I keep
threatening the Vife that I will use empty egg cartons
filled with recycled paper for sound insulation -
that causes quite a commotion :)

>
> As NB has noted, I am in the process of changing listening > tastes.  I used
to spend my listening time 90% CDs and 10% > records... I now stand at 50/50 and
pushing further into
> the vinyl.  In my opinion, if you have a good
> recording, a good pressing , and quality equipment, vinyl > does sound better
than CD.

I have been trying to come up with a rule of thumb as to
what sounds better in this case -

the word Tuntable here includes cartridge and arm.

$500 CD Player vs $500 Turntable - CD wins
$1000 CD Player vs $1000 Turntable - about even
$1500 CD Player vs $1500 Turntable - Turntable wins
Price > $1500 - Turntable superiour

By the way, does anyone know where the expression
  "rule of thumb" comes from ?


>
> A couple of things: speaker cable and interconnects.  What > is everybody
using, what is it's cost and give me a
> constructive detail of their performance.

I am using Nordost Blue Heaven for interconnects, and
Transparent 200 Wave for speaker cables.  I realy would
like to get Nordost Blue Heaven or Red Dawn speaker
cables...  Kinda difficult to get in Toronto....


>
> Second, whoever mentioned that show on the 18th, can you
> give me a little more info.

Ditto about the show!  This could be interesting!

A.M.


>
> Thanks,
> GB

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> I don't know too many 'quiet' audiophiles.  I've been swamped lately, here
catching up on e-mail at 1 am..
>
>- I have Tesla EL34's in my Cary.  No complaints but >haven't really compared
them to any other brands.

I had some kind of no-name brand chinese el34's in my
Jolida, and as soon as I replaced them with Tesla's,
it made a HUGE amount of difference.  The Jadis uses
the Ei from Yugo, and they seem pretty good so far.

>- Speaker placement, my Maggies are positioned roughly as >per the manual
suggests, the centers equidistant from each >other and the listener.  I have
them way out in the room at >least 3.5 feet from the back wall. (no Vife to
Vorry about)

What about the toe-in?  Does it make sense with planar
speakers?

>- Music, I'm in the process of migrating from CD to vinyl, >of all things. Will
let you know how it goes.

I would like to get there eventualy....  I have to wait
until my son grows up a bit, and loses interest in things
that "turn and spin" (i.e. CD Player with a glass opening
that shows the CD spinning, OR a spinning turntable - he
is 18 months old).

>- spkr cables, I have the original Music Hose, MH750 from >MIT (double run). No
Vife on the planet Vould allow these >things in her home.. :)  I've heard that
the Wireworld >Eclipse 3 is out of this world.. but it's definitely out of
>my budget.

I was reading the Stereophile recommended components (
I know groan groan...) and they had a cable listed that
had WATER!! in insulating material - outrageously expensive,
I will check on the brand name tonight...

>My chuckle of the day:  you can put on Bob Marley's >"Exodus" and check the
bass response of your tweeters!

Chuckle of the day: A friend of mine came over to have
a listen to Maggies - after being suitably impressed,
and having expressed some interest in getting a high-end
system, he asked me if the Maggies can be GLUED TO THE
WALL somehow so as not to take up so much space.  I just
sat there and blinked for a while...

A.M.


>
>                  NB
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>1) Tube users:  do you use EL34 s?  Which brand are you using and
>why do you like them or not like them?

Heh, I am another one of those SS guys.  I have never owned any tube gear.
I think if I could find a Tube Headphone amp, I would buy one just because I
like the look of tubes. :)

>2) Speaker placement:  I am trying to figure out whether Magnepans should
>be toed in at all.  I tried it and I did not have good results.  What is
>your philosophy behind speaker placement?  What has worked for you and what
has
>not...

Speaker placement for me is a balance between a sweet spot and a wide
soundstage.  With Electrostatics or planar magnetics, the horizontal
dispersion is fairly limited (it seems to me), so it really depends on
whether you are listening by yourself or with others.  The only thing my
fiance said about which speakers I buy is that we have to be able to listen
together.  :)    So I have dynamic speakers.  I will probably pick up some
electrostatics at some later date for my personal enjoyment.  All of the
systems I have had follow the same basic rules.  Speakers out from the rear
wall until I lose depth of soundstage, but with controlled bass response.  I
place them apart in an equilateral triangle from my seating area, I toe them
into to get the best balance.  Something you hardly ever hear people talking
about is the height of their listening chair.  I have been to peoples houses
to hear their systems and found that by slouching, or sitting up more I
could get a more defined sweet spot.  Speakers come in all different
heights, and vertical dispersion is in some ways more imporant (and more
limited) than horizontal.  You never really hear people talk about tweaking
their listening height, I guess people are just happy with their favorite
chair. :)

The Stereophile article was very good and I will use that as a guideline in
the future.

>3) CD recorded music:  I have a whole lot of Mercury Living Presence
>recordings,
>and a bunch of brand new recordings from Chesky (96/24 format - Rebecca
>Pidgeon e.t.c.),
>and I am not sure which one I like better.  Chesky is much quieter, however
>MLP seems
>to have more "life".  Different kind of music though - MLP is classical,
>Chesky is
>mostly small groups performing (folk music e.t.c.)
>

The chesky 96/24s I have (Daves True Story, Rebecca Pidgeon) sound a bit
dry.  I know what you mean by lifeless, well, not lifeless, just a bit dry.
Maybe its really the true hall ambience coming through.. dunno yet.  I have
not picked up any MLP recordings.  Then again, I don't have a true 24 bit
dac so maybe I am missing something.

>4) What are your speaker cable preferences - flat, round, or "waterhose
>thick"?
>Anyone use Silver?
>

All of my cables are home built.  I am an electronics engineer, or at least
I was, I am now one of those middle/upper management types who only thinks
he remembers how to do things. :)

There are some excellent DIY cable projects out there on the web. I have
dissected a few high end cables, usually what I find the the scrap bins at
local audio stores and found that most of these cables are built out of
readily available materials (pre-existing cable), and quite overpriced for
what they are, even given normal 3-5x multipliers from cost of goods.
Currently my speaker cables are built from Belden Coax,  I have loaned them
out to several people and found them very hard to get back so I have learned
to keep my experiments in house. :)    The next set will be a real carpet
snake, at least 2" thick as the core will be constructed of some very heavy
and thick Teflon tubing.  I doubt it will make any difference in sound, but
it sure will look impressive.  My fiance oops, she says thats Fiance with a
capital F, really likes the whole setup, she enjoys the music and thinks all
the big cables look very high tech.  Thats why shes the Fiance.  Guess I am
lucky that way.   The interconnects I am going to be building next will be
made of pure silver wire cores and shields.  Teflon as the insulator (inner
and outer).

Brick






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I don't know anything about Maggies but if anyones interested, there is an
excellent article in August 98's Stereophile.  I assume that most of you
have read it but, it is excellent.  It provides a mathematical approach to
optimizing your speaker placement in your listening room.

As NB has noted, I am in the process of changing listening tastes.  I used
to spend my listening time 90% CDs and 10% records... I now stand at 50/50
and pushing further into the vinyl.  In my opinion, if you have a good
recording, a good pressing , and quality equipment, vinyl does sound better
than CD.

A couple of things: speaker cable and interconnects.  What is everybody
using, what is it's cost and give me a constructive detail of their
performance.

Second, whoever mentioned that show on the 18th, can you give me a little
more info.

Thanks,

GB
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>
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> From: Andy in the Bigsmoke <enzo@...>
> Subject: Re: [toronto-audiophiles] gosh you are a quiet lot!
> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:07:43 -0700
>
> Hi Aleksandar,
>
> > 1)      Tube users:  do you use EL34 s?  Which brand are you using and
> > why do you like them or not like them?
>
> I use EL34 tubes in most of my amplifiers.  My brand preferences are
> actually Siemens and Philips, Holland.

My Jadis uses the EL34 tubes from Yugoslavia Ei brand - seems pretty good,
however I think that I would also like to try the Golden Dragons.  I ordered
4 golden dragons at Sonic Frontiers a couple of months ago, and they still
haven't arrived :(

>
> > 2)      Speaker placement:  I am trying to figure out whether
> Magnepans should
> > be toed in at all.  I tried it and I did not have good results.  What is
> > your
> > philosophy behind speaker placement?  What has worked for you
> and what has
> > not...
>
> Can't comment on Maggies.  I'm one of these strange people that likes
> dynamic drivers.

Which dynamic drivers? Are you toeing them in? How far away from the rear
wall?

>
> > 3)      CD recorded music:  I have a whole lot of Mercury
> Living Presence
> > recordings,
> > and a bunch of brand new recordings from Chesky (96/24 format - Rebecca
> > Pidgeon e.t.c.),
> > and I am not sure which one I like better.  Chesky is much
> quieter, however
> > MLP seems
> > to have more "life".  Different kind of music though - MLP is classical,
> > Chesky is
> > mostly small groups performing (folk music e.t.c.)
>
> My collection is primarily RCA Living Stereo LPs.

LPs cool - wish I had a turntable - perhaps my next purchase... (kinda hard
to hide a new piece of gear from the Vife - an upgraded piece of equipment
isn't
as hard to explain..)

>
> > 4)      What are your speaker cable preferences - flat, round,
> or "waterhose
> > thick"?
> > Anyone use Silver?
>
> In my opinion, and others, flat cables have the advantage over other
> profiles.  I would highly recommend the Flemming wires.

Flemming - do they have a web site?  I am currently using Nordost Blue
Heaven
interconnects and realy like them...

>
> Anyone going to the Musical Collectables Show & Sale on October 18 ?

Can you please give a little more info about this event?

Alex.


> --
> Trailing Edge Technologies........We're serious about fidelity!
>         .------..                          _------__--___.__.
>      /            \_                     /            `  `    \
>    /                \                   |.                     \
>   /                   \                 \                       |
>  /    .--._    .---.   |                 \                      |
>  |  /      -__-     \   |                  ~-/--`-`-`-\         |
>  | |                 |  |                   |          \        |
>   ||                  ||                   |            |       |
>   ||     ,_   _.      ||                   |            |       |
>   ||      e   e       ||  Hey Beavis,       |   _--    |       |
>    ||     _  |_      ||   pull my finger!   _| =-.    |.-.    |
>   @|     (o\_/o)     |@   Heh,Heh!!!        o|/o/       _.   |
>     |     _____     |                       /  ~          \ |
>      \ ( /uuuuu\ ) /             No way!  (/___@)  ___~    |
>       \  `====='  /              Ass wipe!!  |_===~~~.`    |
>        \  -___-  /                        _______.--~     |
>         |       |            //           \________       |
>         /-_____-\       .  _//_                    \      |
>       /           \     \\/////                  __/-___-- -__
>     /               \    \   /                  /            __\
>    /__|  AC / DC  |__\   / /                    -| Metallica|| |
>    | ||           |\ \  / /                     ||          || |
>    | ||           | \ \/ /                      ||          || |
>    | ||           |  \__/                      / |          / /
>

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Hi Aleksandar,

> 1)      Tube users:  do you use EL34 s?  Which brand are you using and
> why do you like them or not like them?

I use EL34 tubes in most of my amplifiers.  My brand preferences are
actually Siemens and Philips, Holland.

> 2)      Speaker placement:  I am trying to figure out whether Magnepans should
> be toed in at all.  I tried it and I did not have good results.  What is
> your
> philosophy behind speaker placement?  What has worked for you and what has
> not...

Can't comment on Maggies.  I'm one of these strange people that likes
dynamic drivers.

> 3)      CD recorded music:  I have a whole lot of Mercury Living Presence
> recordings,
> and a bunch of brand new recordings from Chesky (96/24 format - Rebecca
> Pidgeon e.t.c.),
> and I am not sure which one I like better.  Chesky is much quieter, however
> MLP seems
> to have more "life".  Different kind of music though - MLP is classical,
> Chesky is
> mostly small groups performing (folk music e.t.c.)

My collection is primarily RCA Living Stereo LPs.

> 4)      What are your speaker cable preferences - flat, round, or "waterhose
> thick"?
> Anyone use Silver?

In my opinion, and others, flat cables have the advantage over other
profiles.  I would highly recommend the Flemming wires.

Anyone going to the Musical Collectables Show & Sale on October 18 ?
--
Trailing Edge Technologies........We're serious about fidelity!
         .------..                          _------__--___.__.
      /            \_                     /            `  `    \
    /                \                   |.                     \
   /                   \                 \                       |
  /    .--._    .---.   |                 \                      |
  |  /      -__-     \   |                  ~-/--`-`-`-\         |
  | |                 |  |                   |          \        |
   ||                  ||                   |            |       |
   ||     ,_   _.      ||                   |            |       |
   ||      e   e       ||  Hey Beavis,       |   _--    |       |
    ||     _  |_      ||   pull my finger!   _| =-.    |.-.    |
   @|     (o\_/o)     |@   Heh,Heh!!!        o|/o/       _.   |
     |     _____     |                       /  ~          \ |
      \ ( /uuuuu\ ) /             No way!  (/___@)  ___~    |
       \  `====='  /              Ass wipe!!  |_===~~~.`    |
        \  -___-  /                        _______.--~     |
         |       |            //           \________       |
         /-_____-\       .  _//_                    \      |
       /           \     \\/////                  __/-___-- -__
     /               \    \   /                  /            __\
    /__|  AC / DC  |__\   / /                    -| Metallica|| |
    | ||           |\ \  / /                     ||          || |
    | ||           | \ \/ /                      ||          || |
    | ||           |  \__/                      / |          / /

______________________________________________________________________

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So does anyone have any audiophile issues they would like to discuss?
Topics of interest that come to my mind are:

1) Tube users:  do you use EL34 s?  Which brand are you using and
why do you like them or not like them?

2) Speaker placement:  I am trying to figure out whether Magnepans should
be toed in at all.  I tried it and I did not have good results.  What is
your
philosophy behind speaker placement?  What has worked for you and what has
not...

3) CD recorded music:  I have a whole lot of Mercury Living Presence
recordings,
and a bunch of brand new recordings from Chesky (96/24 format - Rebecca
Pidgeon e.t.c.),
and I am not sure which one I like better.  Chesky is much quieter, however
MLP seems
to have more "life".  Different kind of music though - MLP is classical,
Chesky is
mostly small groups performing (folk music e.t.c.)

4) What are your speaker cable preferences - flat, round, or "waterhose
thick"?
Anyone use Silver?

These are just some of the things that come to mind right now..  By all
means
let's contribute!

Aleksandar.

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Speaking of things carved in stone, I believe that The Absolute Sound
used to have a list- Editor's Choice of gear (or some such thing).  I have not
seen any
references to that kind of gear, since TAS was "reborn" a couple of
issues ago...  I guess that I am lucky that they are finaly including
the "Super Disc List" on the web site, after I hounded HP with e-mail about
it...

Aleksandar.


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----------------------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 12:09 AM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: audiophile chuckle of the day..
>
>
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Ah yes, the recommended components list.. audio's version of Moses coming down
> from the mountain with the Ten Commandments.
>
> Let's see, maybe if I use all my strength, I can resolve not to buy any more
> issues of Stereophile... help me, friends, HELP ME!!
>
> :)
>
>
>
> ---Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Stereophile October 98 - recommended components
> >
> > Cables:
> >
> > RadioShack 18-Gauge solid-core hookup wire : $3.99/60 ft spool
> >
> > right below it
> >
> > Synergistic Research Designer's Reference speaker wire:
> >
> > $4000/10ft pair
> >
> > nuff said.
> >
> > ------------ Toronto Audiophiles List --------------------------
> >
> > Post to:  mailto:toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> > Moderator: mailto:toronto-audiophiles-owner@egroups.com
> > www: http://www.egroups.com/list/toronto-audiophiles
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
> > at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
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>
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Yes, though shall only read TAS and Glass Audio.

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----------------------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 12:09 AM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: audiophile chuckle of the day..
>
>
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Ah yes, the recommended components list.. audio's version of Moses coming down
> from the mountain with the Ten Commandments.
>
> Let's see, maybe if I use all my strength, I can resolve not to buy any more
> issues of Stereophile... help me, friends, HELP ME!!
>
> :)
>
>
>
> ---Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Stereophile October 98 - recommended components
> >
> > Cables:
> >
> > RadioShack 18-Gauge solid-core hookup wire : $3.99/60 ft spool
> >
> > right below it
> >
> > Synergistic Research Designer's Reference speaker wire:
> >
> > $4000/10ft pair
> >
> > nuff said.
> >
> > ------------ Toronto Audiophiles List --------------------------
> >
> > Post to:  mailto:toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> > Moderator: mailto:toronto-audiophiles-owner@egroups.com
> > www: http://www.egroups.com/list/toronto-audiophiles
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
> > at http://www.eGroups.com -- Free Web-based e-mail groups.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
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>
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Sounds pretty good!  I think that I will definitely check out that place.
I went there once with a friend of mine, however by the time we got there
the place was closed.  I was astounded to find out that a relatively small
place like Dundas would have a high-end shop!  I guess they are in the
middle between Oakville, Toronto and Hamilton, and the rents are cheaper,
and typicaly, people interested in that kind of gear, do not mind going
out of their way...

Aleksandar.


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----------------------------------------------------------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 11:52 PM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: Fwd: RE: kicking off things..
>
>
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> forwarding.
>
> --> Brick, you need to use "Reply All" to post to the group.
>    Noam
>
>
> ---Brick Eksten <brick@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I second that.. I met Mike (alternative audio) for the first time last week.
> > I don't think I have met a more laid back salesman. I had to drive two hours
> > to get to his shop through killer traffic (Friday afternoon).  I was in no
> > mood for salesman when I got there.  Mike showed me the way to the listening
> > room, let me hook my equipment up, and disappeared  I asked him to change
> > out the CD player we were using for the Meridian, he quickly changed it out
> > and disappeared again.  Wonderful.  I have only had that experience once
> > before with a high end audio dealer (in Berkeley, California, Music Lovers
> > Audio).
> >
> >  Brick
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Noam B <lojoe@...>
> > To: <toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com>
> > Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 8:27 PM
> > Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: RE: kicking off things..
> >
> >
> > >X-No-Archive: yes
> > >
> > >
> > >No knock on Alternative Audio, just the music at the time I was passing
> > thru
> > >was a bit unlistenable.  I didn't spend much time there but they had a
> > great
> > >looking setup and I would have liked to spend more time hearing the systems
> > >they featured.  In fact, to answer your other question Alex, this is one of
> > >the dealers I've had good experiences with.  Mike is a nice guy - I
> > recently
> > >bought a pair of Maggie SMGc's (used) from him as well as a Jolida amp,
> > which
> > >he allowed me to return after I wasn't thrilled with its' performance (and
> > >that after he had held it for me for 2 weeks on a small deposit).
> > >
> > >To add more irony, the Classe/Gershman I liked so much was in the Toronto
> > Home
> > >Of Audiophile room - and that is a shop I would not recommend at all.
> > >
> > >Which Maggies do you have Alex?  (I like mine also but am also looking at a
> > >pair of Coincidents, and will be getting them on loan soon.  I have a Cary
> > >tube amp).
> > >
> > >p.s. another guy I like to deal with is Ian at Audio Excellence (Richmond
> > Hill).
> > >
> > >NB
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
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>
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Stereophile October 98 - recommended components

Cables:

RadioShack 18-Gauge solid-core hookup wire : $3.99/60 ft spool

right below it

Synergistic Research Designer's Reference speaker wire:

$4000/10ft pair

nuff said.

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----------------------------------------------------------------



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-----Original Message-----
From: Brick Eksten [mailto:brick@...]
Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:12 PM
To: Aleksandar Matijaca
Subject: Re: [toronto-audiophiles] Recordings



SS here, Krell.


-----Original Message-----
From: Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...>
To: To <toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 8:27 PM
Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Recordings


>
>Just out of curiousity - how many people on the list have tube equipment,
>and how many people have solid state?  I am running tubes right now (Jadis
Orchestra).
>
>Aleksandar.
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>
>Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
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>



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-----Original Message-----
From: RU9 [mailto:nscbruix@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 9:00 PM
To: Aleksandar Matijaca
Subject: Re: [toronto-audiophiles] Recordings


At 08:24 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Just out of curiousity - how many people on the list have tube equipment,
>and how many people have solid state?  I am running tubes right now (Jadis
Orchestra).
>
>Aleksandar.
>
solid state, considering the price.

Louie



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 8:13 PM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: RE: kicking off things..
>
>
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>
> No knock on Alternative Audio, just the music at the time I was passing thru
> was a bit unlistenable.  I didn't spend much time there but they had a great
> looking setup and I would have liked to spend more time hearing the systems
> they featured.  In fact, to answer your other question Alex, this is one of
> the dealers I've had good experiences with.  Mike is a nice guy - I recently

Is this the place in Dundas Ontario?

> bought a pair of Maggie SMGc's (used) from him as well as a Jolida amp, which

Which Jolida? I had a 202a, and I bought myself a used Jadis Orchestra instead -
you can't even compare the two products - I found the Jolida veiled, although
warm and somewhat wooly in the bass.  However, it does give one a taste for
tubes,
if you've never experienced it before...

> he allowed me to return after I wasn't thrilled with its' performance (and
> that after he had held it for me for 2 weeks on a small deposit).
>
> To add more irony, the Classe/Gershman I liked so much was in the Toronto Home
> Of Audiophile room - and that is a shop I would not recommend at all.
>
> Which Maggies do you have Alex?  (I like mine also but am also looking at a
> pair of Coincidents, and will be getting them on loan soon.  I have a Cary
> tube amp).

The Maggies are the 1.5 (I think) I lent my friend my Vandersteen 1c and he lent
me his Maggies - now we are both happy for a while.  The 1c s were not a good
match with the Jolida it would seem.  Which Cary do you have?  I believe that
American Sound of Canada (Richmond Hill) sells them...

>
> p.s. another guy I like to deal with is Ian at Audio Excellence (Richmond
Hill).

I also dealt with Peter at Audio Excellence (Yorkville), and he seemed pretty
cool..


>
> NB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---Aleksandar Matijaca <aleksm@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cool to see so many Canadain companies doing this stuff - unfortunately,
> > some of them like to charge in U.S. dollars (as in Sonic Frontiers).  I am
> currently
> > using a pair of Magneplanar speakers, and I think that it would be
interesting
> > to go to a good efficient speaker (like the coincident), so that I can
> eventualy
> > migrate to single ended triode amp - I currently have a Jadis Orchestra
> which is quite good.
> >
> > Cheers, Alex.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 6:35 PM
> > > To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: kicking off things..
> > >
> > >
> > > X-No-Archive: yes
> > >
> > > I was at the show on the Sunday for a few hours.  Generally I hate the
> > > atmosphere at these things but I had a free pass and it is a good way to
> see a
> > > lot of stuff in one place.  However, the show conflicted with a European
CES
> > > in London, and many of the big high end brands were not represented.  Some
> of
> > > those who did NOT show up were Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Cello
> > > (Levinson), Cary Audio, Jadis, Manley Labs, Martin-Logan, Apogee, Linn,
> > > Magnepan, CAT and Audio Note just to name a few that I would have liked to
> > > see/hear.
> > >
> > > The best sound at the show IMHO was in the Classe/Gershman room.  The top
of
> > > the line Gershmans ($10k) played superbly and the high end Classe stuff
> > > sounded much better than their 'mere mortal' line.  High marks also to the
> > > Coincident setup (another Canadian speaker) with Pass and Rogue
electronics
> > > and both digital and analog front ends. This setup might have been #1 if
the
> > > new top of the line Coincident Millenium was there.
> > >
> > > Another great sounding room was the OCM/Meadow Song Labs setup.  The
> > > Canadian-made MSL's are very similar to Martin-Logans, in fact I've read
> that
> > > there are legal battles over copyrights.  The Blue Circle/Von Schweikert
> setup
> > > also seemed to have a lot of potential but they were playing things on it
> that
> > > I can barely classify as music (more like synthesized far eastern
> experimental
> > > sounds, very strange).  Why not play music we can reference?
> > >
> > > Overall I would give the show a 6/10 rating.  Good effort by those who
> > > participated and nice to see so many Canadian products competing
> favourably in
> > > the high end.
> > >
> > > Noam
> > >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> >
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> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
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Just out of curiousity - how many people on the list have tube equipment,
and how many people have solid state?  I am running tubes right now (Jadis
Orchestra).

Aleksandar.



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Cool to see so many Canadain companies doing this stuff - unfortunately,
some of them like to charge in U.S. dollars (as in Sonic Frontiers).  I am
currently
using a pair of Magneplanar speakers, and I think that it would be interesting
to go to a good efficient speaker (like the coincident), so that I can eventualy
migrate to single ended triode amp - I currently have a Jadis Orchestra which is
quite good.

Cheers, Alex.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noam B [mailto:lojoe@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 6:35 PM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Re: kicking off things..
>
>
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> I was at the show on the Sunday for a few hours.  Generally I hate the
> atmosphere at these things but I had a free pass and it is a good way to see a
> lot of stuff in one place.  However, the show conflicted with a European CES
> in London, and many of the big high end brands were not represented.  Some of
> those who did NOT show up were Audio Research, conrad-johnson, Cello
> (Levinson), Cary Audio, Jadis, Manley Labs, Martin-Logan, Apogee, Linn,
> Magnepan, CAT and Audio Note just to name a few that I would have liked to
> see/hear.
>
> The best sound at the show IMHO was in the Classe/Gershman room.  The top of
> the line Gershmans ($10k) played superbly and the high end Classe stuff
> sounded much better than their 'mere mortal' line.  High marks also to the
> Coincident setup (another Canadian speaker) with Pass and Rogue electronics
> and both digital and analog front ends. This setup might have been #1 if the
> new top of the line Coincident Millenium was there.
>
> Another great sounding room was the OCM/Meadow Song Labs setup.  The
> Canadian-made MSL's are very similar to Martin-Logans, in fact I've read that
> there are legal battles over copyrights.  The Blue Circle/Von Schweikert setup
> also seemed to have a lot of potential but they were playing things on it that
> I can barely classify as music (more like synthesized far eastern experimental
> sounds, very strange).  Why not play music we can reference?
>
> Overall I would give the show a 6/10 rating.  Good effort by those who
> participated and nice to see so many Canadian products competing favourably in
> the high end.
>
> Noam
>


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It seems that there was a High-End audio show held in
Toronto just about a week ago, and of course I missed it..

I was wondering if anyone actualy went to it...  For a
couple of days, it seems that the show was open to the
public!!

Also, I would like to know what kind of experiences
people have had in "high-end" audio stores around
southern ontario?  Which are your favorites and why??

Aleksandar.


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Hi Brick,

my name is Aleksandar Matijaca, and I am the moderator of the
toronto-audiophiles
e-mail list!  Welcome to the list, which at this point is very small, but I hope
that it will grow significantly!  I believe that there is a "critical mass" of
audiophiles
in Toronto, and I plan to "advertise" the existence of the list on several
web-sites.

Welcome to the List!!

Cheers, Aleksandar.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brick Eksten [mailto:brick@...]
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 9:01 PM
> To: toronto-audiophiles@egroups.com
> Subject: [toronto-audiophiles] Test
>
>
> Hello, is anyone out there?
>
>
>
> -----
> Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/
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>

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Hello, is anyone out there?



-----
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no moderation?


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let's see if this high tech stuff realy works...


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