Out of the gate.
This is a long entry. I hope you take the time to read it respond to
it and to understand that my posting it here is in no way reflective
of praising or trying to sway opinion to any other market or device.
I simply want to exercise this discussion group's full reason for
existing. Feedback, discussion and opinion.  Thank you.

Poll Time.
I am interested in what those who have purchased the item or are
pondering on the idea of purchasing the Treo 180 think about the cost
of this device. I posted a poll please check it out.

Comments.
I have this device and I must say that although it is a very nifty
device I would state that the reasons for buying this device were
merely to eliminate the number of devices that I carry. That is the
MAIN reason that I purchased it. The fact that it is a Palm device is
a major bonus. I would be very interested to know from all of you who
purchased or will purchase this device if when the Treo 270 comes out
in (mid 2002) what the response will be to the cost. At looking over
the past introductory prices of color devices vs monochrome offered
from Handspring. The 270 would retail at $200 more that the 170. Are
people really ready to spend that much on a device such as this? Just
for color? I can only assume that there will be no other added
functionality such as a SM or MMC card slot and if there is I will be
the first to feel a bit shafted. I hardly doubt that the 270 will
have such a feature but…

Since the first release of the Handspring models I have been a
devoted follower until I got my hands on a Palm M505. A slim color
device that had a MMC slot for backups, apps, etc. Lets face it the
Handspring Edge was a bit bulky and unattractive with a Springboard
attachment. That's what I want to get away from. Anyone what has
purchased a slimtop Notebook computer understands this all to well.

The bottom line has now become a scale of sorts. A give and take of
gadget like options and real world useable technology. Lets face it
most of us want our cake and eat it to. The only problem is that
everyone serving the cake can't seem to get the right ingredients
together. There is a device on the market in Europe that is on the
right track. It's the closest device to gadget utopia that I have
seen yet. It is called simply POGO. http://www.pogo-tech.com/  It is
a device that finally takes a BIG step forward in appeasing us gadget
heads and real world device heads. It offers all the features the
Treo does and a few that the Treo does not. Including. Standard Color
screen, Built in MP3 player, Expandable MMC slot, Micro Browser that
supports Flash and 3G ready. It's a bold move and a unique design.

Now I want to point out that the POGO is a proprietary device and its
only available service is in the UK. BUT the device sells for $329
Euro which is roughly $289 America dollars. It's a jam-packed device
for a reasonable cost. Now that seems a bit interesting doesn't it?
Very well featured and at a low price… hmmmmm

Its also interesting to note that every American Company always
points out about expandable features as well as Built in standard
features. (just as Handspring does in their F.A.Q. section for the
Treo about SM,MMC,CF,Memory sticks,Springboard Expansion features) –

Q. Will Handspring use other expansion technology like SD, Compact
Flash or Memory Stick?
  A. Springboard expansion is really a superset of other expansion
technologies and we will continue to see innovation on our platform.
While it has not been shown that these other expansion technologies
can incorporate wireless modems, GPS devices or MP3 players, they can
be useful for general content expansion due to their small size.
Handspring is committed to building products that meet customer needs
and we will continue to consider incorporating other expansion
technologies if warranted by consumer demand.

Well guess what. Who the hell has not demanded these features? I mean
isn't that the goal in the Phone/PDA/Pager/Gadget device category?
MORE features MORE expandability. MORE MORE.  Isn't that why
handspring made the Springboard expansion slot for in the first
place? To expand the device beyond it's built in capabilities. To
offer an open and endless platform for neat usable applications and
features for a very cool device?

Don't get me wrong I know this sounds like a rant on Handspring BUT
IT'S NOT! I applaud Handspring for its innovative devices and for
taking the steps forward that it has. Unlike Motorola's Nightmare
accompli 009 Handspring's Treo is definitely the hands down choice in
the Palm device marketplace today. But without expandability and
built in features that are up to par with overall market
PDA/PocketPC/Phone devices what's the Point? Where's the benefit?
Where's the gratification of knowing I just bought a device that will
actually hold value? Not diminish in half once off the showroom
floor.

With Microsoft  developing its so called (Stinger phone) hot on the
trail of imprinting their foot in every market and making a BIG print
at that (ie. The X-Box) Along with Nokia and Europe vendors such as
POGO-Tech developing devices that will one day become useable on a
world wide system of technology when does my $549 dollar non
expandable device become a $200 antique device on e-bay so I can buy
the next $700 dollar device falling just short of what should be… a
true ALL IN ONE DEVICE.

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
treo group:

Do you think that the Treo 180 is worth
$549.00?

   o absolutely
   o No
   o It's worth not having to carry 3 devices


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/treo/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Size is great, not too bad going from a Nokia
8290, any smaller and the keyboard would
be too small.

Keyboard, wish the keys were rubber, miss the
Blackberry keyobard, it had a more positive feel,
but never the less very useful.

No Grafitti, kind of weird, miss the speedy shortcut
loop for stuff and definately miss being to copy/paste
ANYWHERE, anyone figured out how to do this?
It seems if there is not an edit menu you cant copy/paste
like all other OS 3.5 machines, where did the / upstroke
menu go? the one with the little icons at the bottom, I
had this on the Prism.
Now I can't paste in the serial numbers for all
of my registered apps from my memo list.

Screen, contrast seems much worse than my PalmVx, but the
backlight rocks, doesn't wash out the screen in low light like the
PalmVx, plenty bright in most lighting conditions.
note:added glow hack to make the backlight come on
more often, it already comes on with an incoming call.

App launching, kind of weird to get used to hitting
2 keys to get to the main apps, tried using APPHack, wich just
complicated things, and made some apps come uo that were
not even associated to the keys.
I am sure that there will be plenty of 3rd party treo specific apps
available soon.
I am using PAL for the APP menu, I prefer it better, hopefully he
will add signal and battery status like the built in launcher.

Ringer, very LOUD, the built in tones are ok, but you might want
to check out Ringo, cool app that lets you copy tones from the
built in Palm midi database.

Vibrate is very good also.


One note, my brand new Treo 180 had a bad speaker, and I was
forced to use the HF for a couple days till a replacement arrived,
Handspring was happy to next day another, which was
supposed to arrive on a Saturday, but they messed up the
shipping, thankfully they refunded all of my original shipping
charges. The customer service manager was very nice.

I also found out that most Nokia 8290 compatible headsets work
fine, but the 8290 car kit does not, bummer.

I have also got PQA's working if anyone is interested I will post
info on how to enable their operation.


My dialup operation was painless, just like the Prism/VP combo,
just choose a local ISP and setup the network properties.

Voicestream is my carrier and I have had no problems.

I will post other findings as I get more time to use the Treo.

also, I can't wait for the color version to come out.

P.S Handspring, Take Note, you should have added an SD/MMC
slot, it would have been nice to have some extra storage
capibility.

Chris

I am running PQA's on my treo, they work fine once the Palm VII
libraries are installed and the proxy is changed.

They are fast with a dialup connection


--- In treo@y..., "jeffg44" <jeffg44@y...> wrote:
> Can you download and run Web Clipping Applications or PQAs
on the
> Treo?...Also, any first impressions of the speed of the internet
> connection.

the default software doesn't have a "reminder beep" if you miss a
call, or if you don't read a new sms message. it does leave a
reminder on the screen for you. i imagine, there is 3rd party
software that does what you are looking for, but off hand i do not
know of one.

the vibrate feature actually performs quite well. its pretty strong!
i can hear it rattling on my desk if the ringer was off.

treo does have a combination ring+vibrate feature, but they operate
together (meaning while its ringing it vibrates) - it does not have
the ring+vibrate process you describe.

overall i'm quite happy with it. i now have one device instead of
carrying my cell phone and palm.



--- In treo@y..., db <barrond@c...> wrote:
> i'm looking forward to being able to consolidate my phone, pager
and
> palm functions. could i ask a couple of questions of those of you
who
> are already using the treo?
> --
> my current phone (LG tm510) works as a phone fine, with plenty of
> ways to customize the ringing, volume, vibrate, etc. for text
message
> alerts however, it's barely functional, giving only 2 soft beeps,
> even at the loudest selection. the saving grace is that i can get
it
> to beep (once) every 2 minutes until i finally hear it. can anyone
> who uses the treo as a pager tell me how well it functions in that
> capacity?
>
> i also depend on the vibrate function when i'm in public. how does
> the treo vibrate feature perform?
>
> if my current phone is set to ring+vibrate for phone calls, it
> vibrates 3 times, with a short ring on the last, then kicks over to
> voicemail. how well does the ring+vibrate option (assuming it
exists)
> function on the treo?
>
> unfortunately, i'm going to have to wait until voicestream improves
> it coverage area to be able to use this device, but i'm looking
> forward to reading the experiences of all of you lucky enough to
get
> on from the start.
>
> thanks,
> diana

yah, but i want my opening screen to be the "main" screen, and i
guess since thats not an application, i can't program it as a
shortcut into my button settings. :(

-pd

--- In treo@y..., "Joseph S. Barrera III" <joe@b...> wrote:
> > My biggest gripe with the treo is that the start up screen always
> > defaults to the phone application. As of yet, i can't figure out
if
> > there is a way to change it.
>
> I agree -- but I just discovered that if you turn it on with the on
button
> first, instead of just by opening the top, then it returns to the
app it was
> running before shutting it off.
>
> I suppose that's in the manual. I really should read the manual,
but it
> seems more fun to play with the treo itself.
>
> - Joe

i'm looking forward to being able to consolidate my phone, pager and
palm functions. could i ask a couple of questions of those of you who
are already using the treo?
--
my current phone (LG tm510) works as a phone fine, with plenty of
ways to customize the ringing, volume, vibrate, etc. for text message
alerts however, it's barely functional, giving only 2 soft beeps,
even at the loudest selection. the saving grace is that i can get it
to beep (once) every 2 minutes until i finally hear it. can anyone
who uses the treo as a pager tell me how well it functions in that
capacity?

i also depend on the vibrate function when i'm in public. how does
the treo vibrate feature perform?

if my current phone is set to ring+vibrate for phone calls, it
vibrates 3 times, with a short ring on the last, then kicks over to
voicemail. how well does the ring+vibrate option (assuming it exists)
function on the treo?

unfortunately, i'm going to have to wait until voicestream improves
it coverage area to be able to use this device, but i'm looking
forward to reading the experiences of all of you lucky enough to get
on from the start.

thanks,
diana

Can you download and run Web Clipping Applications or PQAs on the
Treo?...Also, any first impressions of the speed of the internet
connection.

> My biggest gripe with the treo is that the start up screen always
> defaults to the phone application. As of yet, i can't figure out if
> there is a way to change it.

I agree -- but I just discovered that if you turn it on with the on button
first, instead of just by opening the top, then it returns to the app it was
running before shutting it off.

I suppose that's in the manual. I really should read the manual, but it
seems more fun to play with the treo itself.

- Joe

Whoo hoo!!, just got my new treo. I'm using voicestream as my GSM
provider...a few years ago they were crap in nyc. But now, i get
decent reception even in my house, where previously i hadn't.

Anyway.

My biggest gripe with the treo is that the start up screen always
defaults to the phone application. As of yet, i can't figure out if
there is a way to change it.

Also, to get to the application launch screen its a 2 step process.

You must first press the option key THEN the applications launcher
key. Sounds petty, but after doing this 20 times within 5 mins, it
gets really annoying. Again, i havn't found out a way to bypass
this "2" step process to get to the app launcher screen.

Other then that it does exactly what i expected, an overall really
really happy with it!

-pd

--- In treo@y..., "ratcliffe1963" <crhode@a...> wrote:
> [...]
> see that turning into a 5-10 minute data session.  That would get
> expensive really fast. I'd also worry about forgetting to shut the
> connection down someday and racking up a huge bill. Anybody have
any
> helpful words?  -Chris

No, but it's a big concern for me as well.

I'm wondering if it would indeed be cheaper to use
the dialup ISP that I've just paid for... but now
I have to figure out how to configure the treo to
do it.

- Joe

--- In treo@y..., "Aaron Rosenbaum" <arosenbaum@a...> wrote:
> FYI: I got the notice saying my Treo shipped.  No tracking #.  I
ordered
> @ 45 minutes after they started taking orders last week.

I received mine this morning! I called up cingular to activate
my account and they didn't have my options on file, so the
service rep and I were guessing whether I wanted data connection
or wireless internet... we decided on the former, and although
my phone service started working right away, the web/email access
setup kept telling me I needed a dialup account... so of course,
just as soon as I sent my credit card info to a dialup ISP,
the web/email access started working.

I'm a bit nervous about the $0.15/minute charge... hopefully
it's not like phone calls where a connection of 15 seconds
is rounded up to a minute...

- Joe

My concern is that in the perusing I did of the wireless service plan
(I have to use Cingular in my area), it appears that the cost for
data is 15c a minute.  I assume the Treo data connection basically
turns on and then stays on until you shut it down.  So if one was to
check email, read the nessages and then respond to one or two, I can
see that turning into a 5-10 minute data session.  That would get
expensive really fast. I'd also worry about forgetting to shut the
connection down someday and racking up a huge bill. Anybody have any
helpful words?  -Chris

--- In treo@y..., "hudakcj" <hudakcj@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
> I was excited to see that the Treo was coming out and
> can't wait to get mine(placed order, patiently waiting in line
> for shipment)
>

On 2/17/02 8:46 PM, "hudakcj" <hudakcj@...> wrote:

> I would also like to note that I am bummed that there is
> no plan for a discount on the Treo 270 for VP owners.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris

I'm kind of in the same boat (Visor Prism and VP) and I think I will wait
for the color Treo, discount or no.


-- Mike.

Hello,

My name is Chris.

I am currently a VP owner using a Prism for a host :)

I was excited to see that the Treo was coming out and
can't wait to get mine(placed order, patiently waiting in line
for shipment)

I like most others are tired of carring, pager, cell. pda, etc
so the Treo will be a welcome change.

Has anyone else migrated from the VP combo to the Treo?
How do you like the change? is the size differce in the
screen a problem?

Anyone fund a way to mute the mic while in a call?
Didn't see this anywhere in the docs, I think this
would be a huge omission on Handsprings part.

I would also like to note that I am bummed that there is
no plan for a discount on the Treo 270 for VP owners.

Comments?

Thanks,
Chris

Palmsource, Inc. to Unveil New OS

PalmSource, Inc. will lift the curtain Tuesday on its next-
generation operating system for handheld computers, a more powerful
platform designed to be faster and more secure.

Developers attending the PalmSource Conference and Expo in San Jose
will get beta test versions of the new Palm OS 5. A final release of
the software will be available by early summer, the company said,
and handheld devices featuring the new OS shouldn't be far behind.

Read more @
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=439&postid=2095

Palm OS Subsidiary to Preview Palm OS 5 Beta

In a move to dramatically broaden the market for handhelds and smart
phones, PalmSource, Inc., the Palm OS(R) subsidiary of Palm, Inc.,
today previewed the Palm OS 5 beta and announced that final delivery
of the new operating system to Palm OS licensees is scheduled for
early summer. Palm OS 5 will be the foundation to build a new class
of devices that will help make mobile computing ubiquitous.

Read more @
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=438&postid=2093

Palm OS 5 to Provide Compatibility for Current Software

PalmSource, Inc., the Palm OS(R) subsidiary of Palm, Inc., today
announced it is providing its vast development community with
compatibility tools to ensure that existing software programs run
smoothly on Palm OS(R) 5. The Palm OS 5 beta will be previewed today
at the PalmSource(R) Conference and is the next major Palm OS
release that supports ARM-compliant processors from industry leaders
Intel, Motorola and Texas Instruments.

Read more @
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=437&postid=2092

Palm OS Subsidiary CEO Outlines Vision for Future of Mobile Computing

A new strategy for driving rapid innovation into the mobile
computing industry will be outlined today by David Nagel, president
and chief executive officer of the Palm OS subsidiary of Palm, Inc.
In his keynote address at the PalmSource(R) conference, Nagel also
will preview the Palm OS(R) 5 operating system beta and highlight
the latest licensee and developer innovations.

Read more @
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=436&postid=2091

Handspring Inc., the world's number two handheld computer maker, is
hoping a new model with a built-in mobile phone will win over
consumers wary of expensive upgrades and spoilt for choice as it
tries to return to profit.

The Treo, a palm-sized personal organizer that made its global debut
in Asia at the end of January, has an antennae sticking out of its
top for e-mail and Internet browsing.

Read more at
http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=434&postid=2072

This news update is brought to you by PDA LIVE.com
- Join in the discussion at the PDA LIVE Community Forum Today!
http://forums.pdalive.com

On 1/31/02 8:08 PM, "Matthew Stevens" <matthew@...> wrote:

> If you're worried about he cost think of it this way. If you're like me
> you'd want a good color device, that being the case you're looking at
> spending at least $400.

Well, my Visor Prism was less than $300 and I consider it a good color
device. Don't get me wrong, I want the color Treo when it comes out -- just
wish it costs less.

What's the cradle for these things like? I assume it uses the regular
HotSync software and charges in the cradle?

-- Mike.

30th January 2002

Handspring Treo to be available in 15 languages

Paragon Software (SHDD) and MDS Holdings, the sole
official distributor of Handspring in Central and
Eastern Europe, have recently continued their mutual
localization project, started in 1999.
As agreed for the year 2002, Paragon Software (SHDD) and
MDS Holdings will localize Handspring Treo
product line into 15 European languages:
Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Estonian, Hungarian, Latvian,
Lithuanian, Polish, Romanian,
Russian, Serbian, Slovak, Slovenian, Turkish and Ukrainian.

Handspring Treo localization will be based on PiLoc
technology,
developed and deployed by Paragon Software (SHDD) for a
number of Palm OS based devices
in more than 30 countries around the world.
PiLoc technology enables all features that are necessary
for national language support
in original English Palm OS. PiLoc also provides optional
feature of complete Palm OS
interface translation to national languages and makes Palm
OS devices completely
understandable for every potential customer (even for
those, who don't speak English at all).

Having in mind the fact that Treo will be available with
user interface in national languages,
MDS Holdings expects rapidly growing sales in the region.
Localization software
will be bundled by MDS Holdings with all Treo units sold
free of charge for end users and resellers.

Beside this agreement, Paragon Software (SHDD) will
develop on its own and with its
local partners Portuguese, Dutch, Finnish, Swedish,
Norwegian, Greek and Hebrew localizations of Treo.

The localization software, PiLoc for Handspring Treo,
will be available to end users at $19.95 per copy through
on-line channels.

More detail information about PiLoc localization
technology is available at
Paragon's company web site:
http://www.penreader.com/PalmOS/PiLoc.html

Paragon Software (Smart Handheld Devices Division)
WWW: www.penreader.com
E-mail: info@...

Having actually played with this device and also having had a RIM device
for a while as well, I can tell you that a small compact keyboard is
going to be a lot faster and easier than graffiti. Granted graffiti
isn't hard but it's not 100% even for the best of us. I wouldn't choose
to type out a multi-page email on a RIM or Treo either, but it wouldn't
kill me. Try writing a multi-page email using graffiti, your hand will
be very tired rather quickly. Those of you, like me, that have tried
know its chore, to say the least.

Also for instant messaging a RIM/Treo keyboard would be ideal. I've
gotten pretty good at t-9 on my Nokia 8290, but my messages are usually
quite short also. IF I had a Treo my messages would be longer and I
would likely use it even more, and I'm a heavy user as it is now with my
Nokia.

I personally can't wait for the Treo 270. I'd like to go with an all in
one unit, and after having had played with the 180 I know it's going to
be great for me.

If you're worried about he cost think of it this way. If you're like me
you'd want a good color device, that being the case you're looking at
spending at least $400. When I got my Nokia 8290 I spent another $130
(almost a year ago). That's not counting accessories, like cases, for
both, cigarette lighter adapters, for both. Never mind trying to keep
them both in sync with each other. Sure I've added an IR port on my pc
so I could add logos, ring tones and such to my phone, but also so I
could sync it to outlook, which of course adds even more software to my
pc that I have to run. That entire thing means I have to sync them
separately and sometimes looking up a number in my Palm to dial on my
phone. Let me tell you it's a total pain!

Matthew Stevens

Kozy Kingdom http://kozykingdom.com
DFWPUG http://dfwpug.org
ICQ: 279754 AIM: KrazyKritterKK
My DVDs http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=KrazyKritter

Another question I have is about the keyboard. I currently use a Visor Prism
with a VisorPhone module. I sometimes try to send short messages using
graffiti which is hard to do while walking down the street. But if I use it
as an organizer and take notes or to do items, I wonder if graffiti might be
faster. Any thoughts?

-- Mike.

On 1/31/02 4:20 PM, "brothereli777" <brothereli777@...> wrote:

> Questions:
> When will we see a color version?
> Are there other converged options?  (Any in color yet?)
> What are drawbacks to the Treo?
>
> adTHANKSvance,
> Eli->

I'm owned a Kyocera 6035 for a long time now.  I was one of the first
to jump on the convergence bandwagon and I've never looked back.  As
I look ahead, I have to wonder if the Treo is my next device.  It's
converged, small, and full-featured.  But it's not color nor is it
expandable.
Questions:
When will we see a color version?
Are there other converged options?  (Any in color yet?)
What are drawbacks to the Treo?

adTHANKSvance,
Eli->

I am a happy user of a new Treo. I would like to share some of the
experiences I got with other users. Anyone already owing this device?

Check out the first Treo review

http://dfwpug.org/treo/prelim.htm

Matthew Stevens

Dallas/FT Worth PDA User Group
http://dfwpug.org
ICQ: 279754 AIM: KrazyKritterKK
http://signature.coola.com/?matthew@dfwpug.org

Initially this will be offered with GSM. The FAQ says CDMA will come.
The sooner the better, as I have SprintPCS service now.

-Bill

I just hope that the color version comes out sooner... or else I'm
afraid, some other company like Sony/Ericsson will come out
with another fantastic phone model...


--- In treo@y..., "Mike Nowak" <mike@d...> wrote:
> Hi, I'm a new member of the group. I have a Handspring Visor
> Prism and a VisorPhone. I'm looking forward to getting a color
> Treo next summer. Just not sure if I want a keyboard or not. I
can
> tell from using my current setup that using graffiti while
walking,
> let alone driving, is pretty hard!
>
> -- Mike.

Hi, I'm a new member of the group. I have a Handspring Visor
Prism and a VisorPhone. I'm looking forward to getting a color
Treo next summer. Just not sure if I want a keyboard or not. I can
tell from using my current setup that using graffiti while walking,
let alone driving, is pretty hard!

-- Mike.