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#24343 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:54 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm sure MS has and continues to reserve their rights to do the same with Windows.

Cin

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...> wrote:
 

Buy a PC with Windows.
Do all the above, and MS is still happy.



On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Vivec <gel214th@...> wrote:
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>


> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.





#24342 From: Adam Alkins <adam.alkins@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
adam.alkins@...
Send Email Send Email
 
That's a very poor analogy. When you buy an Xbox, you sign a terms of use agreement. A better analogy would be leasing a car and subsequently violating the terms of the lease. What recourse you have? Don't sign a contract you aren't willing to abide by the terms. People don't HAVE to buy Xbox's and aren't FORCED to modify and break legal agreements. They just to and, as such, suffer the consequences. The Xbox (nor any console) has a monopoly on playing games or being used as a media viewer; there is a very weak argument to be made that people have no alternative other than using an Xbox.

2009/11/12 Vivec <gel214th@...>
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>


> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




--
Adam Alkins
Mobile: 204-979-7491

#24341 From: Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:37 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
thehost22000
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Buy a PC with Windows.
Do all the above, and MS is still happy.



On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Vivec <gel214th@...> wrote:
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>


> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




#24340 From: "Brendon Ballantyne" <brother_bee@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:32 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
brudab
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I haven't seen anything from Microsoft that indicates that the console will be rendered useless. In any case, they were quite clear on the rules:
 
Don't modify or hack game content to create cheats.
 
If you violate the Code of Conduct or the Terms of Use that you agreed to, action may be taken against your account. Some offenses warrant an immediate account cancellation, including but not limited to hacking, modding, fraud, severe racial remarks, nudity on the Xbox LIVE Vision camera, continued creation of profane gamertags or profile content, and posting viruses or URLs to viruses.
 
----
 
It seems pretty straightforward to me. And to reuse the Toyota analogy, if I mod my Toyota in a way that violates their terms of service, I can still drive it on the road.. However, I can't go back to the dealership for my originally "free service @ 25000km".

From: Vivec
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 

No, getting banned basically Bricks your system.
You lose access to all your games, you'll have to start them all over.
You also cannot get system updates.

The Games you purchase will not be able to get any necessary updates
and patches either.
So, some games have Day 0 patches, as soon as you insert them you are
advised that there is a patch available, usually for osme game
breaking bug.

Any movies and music that you bought will also likely be lost forever.
Any money you spent on Microsoft Points and Subscriptions will also be
lost forever.

And again, this is money that Microsoft has already taken from you,
that they won't be refunding.

2009/11/12 V. Khanai <stingoftheblackscorpion@hotmail.com>
>
>  My apologies... I was replying to the reply before your post.If one gets banned their system still functions (at least for now). They are being banned from the Xbox Live network. I think that means they won't be able to participate in the worldwide multi-player environment.


#24339 From: "Jacqueline A. Morris" <jam@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
triniwebdiva
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Ok - I'm confused. You buy an xbox game and a console in a store. You load the game. You play. You can connect to xbox live play w/ other ppl. If you can't connect, do they come and take away the disc u bought? So how can u not have access to your games?

So, you cannot get system updates - like Toyota not servicing foreign used hiluxes. But it works as it did before the update came, doesn't it?

If you buy a game and put it in didn't know there was an update, you'd play it fine, or if it didn't work, you'd return it ent? So why can't that scenario work with the xbox?

I have a wii, and I've never had any of these issues - I buy my game, put it in and play. When I'm done I turn it off, and it remembers where I was. Why won't the xbox do that?

And yep, if I put $ into a system I'm not supposed to be on, or am on fraudulently, I run the risk of getting kicked out and losing my $. I don't see the problem there.

Is it that the games, music, movies etc are kept on the msft servers that ppl weren't supposed to access so having lost access u lose the stuff u put up there? If so, tough, but yet again, I don't see the issue, given that ppl weren't supposed to be there anyway. Seems as if ppl complaining because the rules against hacking the hardware are finally being enforced.

Or do I have it totally wrong? Cause if msft is blocking ppl who legally using the service in compliance w/ all the rules, there's def a legal case there.
Jacqueline

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.


From: Vivec <gel214th@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:35:39 -0400
To: <ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 

No, getting banned basically Bricks your system.
You lose access to all your games, you'll have to start them all over.
You also cannot get system updates.

The Games you purchase will not be able to get any necessary updates
and patches either.
So, some games have Day 0 patches, as soon as you insert them you are
advised that there is a patch available, usually for osme game
breaking bug.

Any movies and music that you bought will also likely be lost forever.
Any money you spent on Microsoft Points and Subscriptions will also be
lost forever.

And again, this is money that Microsoft has already taken from you,
that they won't be refunding.

2009/11/12 V. Khanai <stingoftheblackscorpion@hotmail.com>
>
>  My apologies... I was replying to the reply before your post.If one gets banned their system still functions (at least for now). They are being banned from the Xbox Live network. I think that means they won't be able to participate in the worldwide multi-player environment.


#24338 From: Vivec <gel214th@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:35 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
gel2.rm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
No, getting banned basically Bricks your system.
You lose access to all your games, you'll have to start them all over.
You also cannot get system updates.

The Games you purchase will not be able to get any necessary updates
and patches either.
So, some games have Day 0 patches, as soon as you insert them you are
advised that there is a patch available, usually for osme game
breaking bug.

Any movies and music that you bought will also likely be lost forever.
Any money you spent on Microsoft Points and Subscriptions will also be
lost forever.

And again, this is money that Microsoft has already taken from you,
that they won't be refunding.

2009/11/12 V. Khanai <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
>
>  My apologies... I was replying to the reply before your post.If one gets
banned their system still functions (at least for now). They are being banned
from the Xbox Live network. I think that means they won't be able to participate
in the worldwide multi-player environment.

#24337 From: "Richard Jobity" <RichardJ@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:36 pm
Subject: RE: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
RichardJ@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Local.  First gen.  :P

-----Original Message-----
From: ttcs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ttcs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Allan Samaroo
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:39 PM
To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated
discs

Did you buy it locally or get it online/abroad?





Richard Jobity wrote:
> I bought a Wii.  :P
>
> First and probably last console I will ever buy.
>


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

#24336 From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:13 pm
Subject: RE: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
rv15m
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
My apologies... I was replying to the reply before your post.

If one gets banned their system still functions (at least for now). They are being banned from the Xbox Live network. I think that means they won't be able to participate in the worldwide multi-player environment.



To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
From: jam@...
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:42:46 +0000
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
Of course one should not hack one's way onto their system! I don't see how my note could possibly have indicated that I support that act!
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.

From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:48:38 -0500
To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com<ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
So you are saying f they don't want you on their network, you should still be able to hack your way into their network?

What if there is a reason they only restrict access to certain areas because of legal issues or operational (that they can't guarantee a minimum delay, or just not that much traffic). Of course their reason right now is that they don't want people hacking/modifying their systems.




To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
From: jam@jacquelinemorris.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:04:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
Can you still use the console to play games you purchased e.g. In a store or online? If yes, then you still have the functionality that you paid for, ent? You can play games on the hardware u bought 2 play games on. What's the big problem? I don't see the Toyota analogy. It's more like u install the turbo and Toyota won't service it. You still drive the car.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.

From: Vivec <gel214th@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:34:30 -0400
To: <ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@gmail.com>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.




Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.

#24335 From: Allan Samaroo <samaroo@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
a_samaroo
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Did you buy it locally or get it online/abroad?





Richard Jobity wrote:
> I bought a Wii.  :P
>
> First and probably last console I will ever buy.
>

#24334 From: Stephen Sankarsingh <stephentnt@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
stephentnt
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I also haven't bought anything labeled "Sony" since the root-kit debacle. I expect their empire to crumble any minute now!

*watches as herd of sheep crosses his path wearing Playstations and spoiling his plans to bankrupt Sony*

meh... :-(

/Stephen

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Richard Jobity <RichardJ@...> wrote:
 

I bought a Wii.  :P
 
First and probably last console I will ever buy.


From: ttcs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ttcs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sankarsingh
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:19 AM

To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

Be like Stephen. Vote with your dollars and don't buy an X-Box.

/Stephen


On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Vivec <gel214th@...> wrote:
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




#24333 From: "Richard Jobity" <RichardJ@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:20 pm
Subject: RE: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
RichardJ@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I bought a Wii.  :P
 
First and probably last console I will ever buy.


From: ttcs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ttcs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sankarsingh
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:19 AM
To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

Be like Stephen. Vote with your dollars and don't buy an X-Box.

/Stephen

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Vivec <gel214th@...> wrote:
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.



#24332 From: "Jacqueline A. Morris" <jam@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
triniwebdiva
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Of course one should not hack one's way onto their system! I don't see how my note could possibly have indicated that I support that act!

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.


From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:48:38 -0500
To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com<ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 

So you are saying f they don't want you on their network, you should still be able to hack your way into their network?

What if there is a reason they only restrict access to certain areas because of legal issues or operational (that they can't guarantee a minimum delay, or just not that much traffic). Of course their reason right now is that they don't want people hacking/modifying their systems.



To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
From: jam@jacquelinemorris.com
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:04:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
Can you still use the console to play games you purchased e.g. In a store or online? If yes, then you still have the functionality that you paid for, ent? You can play games on the hardware u bought 2 play games on. What's the big problem? I don't see the Toyota analogy. It's more like u install the turbo and Toyota won't service it. You still drive the car.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.

From: Vivec <gel214th@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:34:30 -0400
To: <ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@gmail.com>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.


#24331 From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:48 pm
Subject: RE: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
rv15m
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
So you are saying f they don't want you on their network, you should still be able to hack your way into their network?

What if there is a reason they only restrict access to certain areas because of legal issues or operational (that they can't guarantee a minimum delay, or just not that much traffic). Of course their reason right now is that they don't want people hacking/modifying their systems.



To: ttcs@yahoogroups.com
From: jam@...
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:04:19 +0000
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
Can you still use the console to play games you purchased e.g. In a store or online? If yes, then you still have the functionality that you paid for, ent? You can play games on the hardware u bought 2 play games on. What's the big problem? I don't see the Toyota analogy. It's more like u install the turbo and Toyota won't service it. You still drive the car.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.

From: Vivec <gel214th@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:34:30 -0400
To: <ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 
mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@gmail.com>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.




Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.

#24330 From: Stephen Sankarsingh <stephentnt@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:18 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
stephentnt
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Be like Stephen. Vote with your dollars and don't buy an X-Box.

/Stephen

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Vivec <gel214th@...> wrote:
 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.



#24329 From: "Jacqueline A. Morris" <jam@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
triniwebdiva
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Can you still use the console to play games you purchased e.g. In a store or online? If yes, then you still have the functionality that you paid for, ent? You can play games on the hardware u bought 2 play games on. What's the big problem? I don't see the Toyota analogy. It's more like u install the turbo and Toyota won't service it. You still drive the car.

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device available from bmobile.


From: Vivec <gel214th@...>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 09:34:30 -0400
To: <ttcs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ttcs] Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs

 

mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@gmail.com>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
> Fair is fair.


#24328 From: Vivec <gel214th@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:34 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
gel2.rm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
mmm hmm.

what about the people that are modding their Xbox360s so they can use
it as a proper Media Extender, or to use a larger hard disk in it?
You know...home brew stuff like you would find on Linux.

Let's look at it from a different perspective:

600,000 people bought a car, installed turbos and Toyota remotely blew
up their engines.
But it didn't give them back the money they paid for the car.

What about the fact that most of Xbox Live's content is region locked,
if you don't live in one of the major developed countries of the
world, you aren't even welcome on Xbox Live. They don't want your
third world ass on their systems.
What about the fact that these people paid for their consoles, but
perhaps the only way to get games was by pirating? Microsoft doesn't
offer games for download worldwide, in many countries you can't get
these games readily. But Microsoft still made money from the initial
sale of the consoles.

Getting banned from Xbox Live doesn't just block access to Xbox Live,
it scrambles and invalidates all your saved games and all the content
on your hard disk.

Yup...Fair is Fair.

You paid 300US for a license to use a piece of hardware.
Fair is Fair.

Just like Fair is Fair when companies tell Linux users they cannot
watch Flash, DVD Movies and..oh wait no!! THAT wasn't Fair...
But for a long time people were modding and hacking and doing it
illegally on Linux.

uhh....Fair.Is.Fair.

2009/11/12 Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
> Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I
support that move.
> Fair is fair.

#24327 From: Roger Williams <rogerdottin@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:02 pm
Subject: Re: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
thehost22000
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Considering MS is only just starting to show profit from the XBox division I support that move.
Fair is fair.


On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, V. Khanai <stingoftheblackscorpion@...> wrote:
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8356621.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/technology/8354166.stm




Thousands of Xbox 360 owners who have been cut off from Microsoft's Xbox Live service will have to buy a new console if they want to play online again.

Microsoft told BBC News that banned machines will be permanently barred and "unable to connect to Xbox Live".
A message displayed on affected consoles said there was "no recourse for terms of use violations".
Microsoft has barred as many as 1m gamers from Xbox live for modifying their consoles to play pirated games.
"Users of banned Xbox consoles can recover their profile to another, unmodified Xbox 360 console to resume their Live service," the firm told BBC News.
"The banned console will be unable to connect to Xbox Live.

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.



--
http://WWW.TRINTRADE.COM
Get the first ever Trini Radio Bar,
and also toolbars from our latest imitators!

#24326 From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:37 pm
Subject: Xbox console ban is 'permanent' - Don't use pirated discs
rv15m
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8356621.stm


http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/technology/8354166.stm




Thousands of Xbox 360 owners who have been cut off from Microsoft's Xbox Live service will have to buy a new console if they want to play online again.

Microsoft told BBC News that banned machines will be permanently barred and "unable to connect to Xbox Live".
A message displayed on affected consoles said there was "no recourse for terms of use violations".
Microsoft has barred as many as 1m gamers from Xbox live for modifying their consoles to play pirated games.
"Users of banned Xbox consoles can recover their profile to another, unmodified Xbox 360 console to resume their Live service," the firm told BBC News.
"The banned console will be unable to connect to Xbox Live.

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

#24325 From: "V. Khanai" <stingoftheblackscorpion@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:28 pm
Subject: TSTT Vigilance System
rv15m
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I was unable to get to the TTCS meeting as I was in POS. What matters arose on it?

I see there is a fair amount of info on it at http://tsttsecurity.tstt.co.tt/tstt-vigilance/faqs/ , including a description of components you would be renting and optional components such as smoke detectors.

I emailed TSTT (using the feedback form) and asked if the "latch-key" features (amount of codes available) vary with the type of packages used, but haven't gotten an answer yet.

The system seems simple enough though. Has anyone had or know of any experience with it?

Here is hoping the calls that originate from the system aren't long enough that they experience dropping though.


Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.

#24324 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:43 am
Subject: The latest round in Commission -v- Microsoft
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 

The case is another example of the flexibility afforded to the Commission through its ability to accept "Article 9" commitments to end competition investigations.

The market test, due to end on 9 November 2009, relates to two proposed commitments (both of which would last for five years):

  • one commitment would require the introduction in MS's Windows PC operating system of a mechanism to turn its Internet Explorer browser on or off and would also allow PC manufacturers to install competing web browsers, set them as the default and disable Explorer;
  • the other commitment would require MS to distribute a "ballot screen" software update allowing users to choose which browser(s) they would like to install on their computer.

Please see http://www.ashurst.com/publication-item.aspx?id_Content=4820#page=1 for full article.

Cin

#24323 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:23 am
Subject: Facebook implements privacy changes following Canadian Privacy Commissioner review
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Facebook has agreed to implement a series of changes to its privacy practices to give effect to recommendations by the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. The recommendations follow a year-long review and discussions undertaken in response to a complaint by the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) at the University of Ottawa, which was originally filed in May 2008.
The Privacy Commissioner’s review resulted in several recommended changes which Facebook agreed to undertake:

-First, Facebook will now inform new users of the purpose for collecting a user’s date of birth.

-Facebook committed to introducing improvements to the existing low, medium or high privacy settings, allowing users the option of limiting the extent to which the public can view their personal information. It will also provide a per-object privacy tool to configure individual content items at the time of uploading or sharing.

-It will provide a more detailed description of its advertising practices in its Privacy Policy.

-It will provide users with more control over access to personal information by developers of third party applications, including a statement by the third party developer explaining how it will use the information.

-It will explain to users that the site retains profile information in the event that a user deactivates his or her account, but that they can request deletion.

-Facebook will include memorializing deceased users as one of the stated purposes in its Privacy Policy.

-The site will add appropriate language to its Statement of Rights and Responsibilities informing users of their obligations to obtain the consent of non-users before providing such users’ email addresses to Facebook. Facebook will also follow up on any complaints it receives from non-users and will not retain non-users’ email addresses.

-Finally, Facebook will include an explanation of its practices with respect to monitoring the site for anomalous activity. The Privacy Commissioner has indicated that she will monitor the implementation of the changes.

Facebook has stated that it views the changes as demonstrating its commitment to users’ privacy, and that the changes will provide users with even greater transparency and control. However, the Privacy Commissioner’s lengthy review is also perhaps the most prominent example to date of the rigour with which Canadian privacy laws can be applied to international organizations that conduct business in Canada.

#24322 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:47 am
Subject: UK and UK Internet users dislike behavioural profiling
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 


The internet has created an environment where more personal data than ever is available for collection analysis and processing. Businesses that rely on personal information know that many consumers will trade their personal information for a chance to win competitions, to get discounts on goods or indeed to get other rewards. Whilst users may not like the concept of profiling they still do not fully understand the extent which their personal data is processed, analysed and utilised in Web 2.0.

Recent studies and draft legislation show a heightened awareness amongst consumers and regulators of the intrusiveness of personality profiling in the Web 2.0 environment. Research conducted by the University of Pennsylvania and the Berkeley Centre for Law and Technology has found that 60% of adult US citizens do not want advertising to be tailored to what advertisers presume their interests are from profiling.    

The Chairman of the sub-committee on communications technology and the internet, Rick Boucher (D -Va.) has discussed introduction of measures which will extend privacy rights to internet users and limit online behavioural advertising activities in the US. Add to the pot the current draft recommendation from the EU Council of Ministers in relation to the protection of individuals as regards profiling and you have a recipe for serious debate on the pros and cons of online profiling and behavioural advertising.

Hot on the heels of this comes the All Party Parliamentary Communications Group (apComms) report entitled "Can we keep our hands off the net?"published in the UK in October 2009. The report is the result of months of consultation hearings with regulators, industry, academics and consumers on future internet regulations particularly as relates to privacy, online behavioural advertising and child abuse. Amongst other things the apComms report addresses the issue of online behavioural advertising and quotes statistics from the Internet Advertising Bureau (IAB), the UK trade body for digital advertising that UK behavioural advertising currently makes up between 10-15% of all online display advertising which is likely to grow to 30% by 2013; and also focuses on the Phorm phenomenon, commenting that ISPs are aware of the negative effect of too much profiling and also highlighting that despite requests for Google to be involved in the process they did not participate.

Some apComms report recommends are that good practice principles such as those published by IAB should be adopted as widely as possible, that is-

  • Clear and unambiguous notice must be given when data is collected for online behavioural advertising purposes;
  • An opt-out mechanism must be provided at the very least and in some circumstances informed consent must be obtained;
  • Users must be provided with clear and simple information about the use of their data for online behavioural advertising and how they can opt-out.

A specific focus in the apComms report relates to children's privacy online and marketing to children. A recommendation of the report is that e-Security should be part of the national curriculum and that the UK counsel for child internet safety should consider how behavioural advertising that is aimed at children and young people should be regulated.

Finally the apComms report recommends that the UK government review the existing legislation applying to behavioural advertising and bring forward new rules as needed to ensure that the systems are only operated on an explicit informed opt-in basis.



#24321 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:29 am
Subject: UK Court allows service of documents via Twitter
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 

United Kingdom
October 29 2009

In the January 2009, it was reported that during Court proceedings in Australia permission for legal documents to be served via the social networking site, Facebook.    

Recently, the English High Court gave permission for an injunction to be served via Twitter. In this case Donal Blaney, who ran a blog called "Blaney’s Blarney”, was being impersonated on Twitter by someone using the username “@BlaneysBlarney” together with a photograph of Mr Blaney and a link to his blog. Mr Blaney obtained an injunction against the unknown defendant requiring him/her to cease posting, preserve the account and passwords and to identify himself to Mr Blaney’s solicitors. There was no easy means of identifying the anonymous defendant and so the High Court agreed that the injunction could be served on him/her directly using Twitter.

This decision is interesting for two reasons. First, it demonstrates that the courts are willing to adapt traditional procedures to respond to new technologies. Second, this is a more convenient and cheaper way for claimants in a similar position to Mr Blaney to proceed. In cases to date, claimants have sought Norwich Pharmacal orders against the website and/or ISP to force them to disclose registration data relating to the anonymous defendant. This new approach is a quicker and cheaper route. Where the defendant does not comply with the order, a Norwich Pharmacal order against the website or ISP could still be used as a back up to obtain registration data allowing service by other means or, more usefully, to establish whether the defendant has in fact read the order and still failed to comply.

Applications for direct service of court orders via social networking mediums, such as Twitter and Facebook, are likely to become more common particularly in defamation, IP and confidentiality claims.

The case has not been reported.


#24320 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:18 am
Subject: Copyright in the Digital Age
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 


Dear All,

Following the one of the side-topics at yesterday's pizza lime, here's a neat document by the UK IPO on a strategy for copyright in the digital age.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/c-strategy-digitalage.pdf

Hope you Enjoy

Cin


#24319 From: "Jacqueline A. Morris" <jam@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:17 am
Subject: RE: AP IMPACT: Framed for Child Porn _ by a PC Virus - ABC News
triniwebdiva
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
>I have some difficulty with the idea that simply using anti-virus
>programs and having a firewall, is enough to keep your computer secure.

I would have the same difficulty, as it absolutely isn't enough by any
means, nor have I ever so maintained.

I do wish to reiterate that I have am not calling any person stupid. Very
smart people make really idiotic mistakes, though. I do maintain that there
are understandable, reasonable mistakes and stupid, idiotic ones. To see a
lot of stupid mistakes, just check out the Darwin awards.
http://www.darwinawards.com/

But a wiki page with tips, things to look out for and things to avoid is a
very good idea. Looking forward to seeing it.

Jacqueline


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

#24318 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:02 am
Subject: First UK decision on negligence liability for incorrect information on a website
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 

This case represents the first UK decision on negligence liability for incorrect information on a website, and the Court of Appeal’s decision raises some interesting issues. While it was held that SPATA did not owe a duty of care to the claimants, the majority reached this conclusion only because the website suggested that a user could apply for further information (which would have revealed the error) and the claimants had failed to do so. Meanwhile, the dissenting judge would have held that there was sufficient proximity between the parties in order to establish a duty of care even in spite of the availability of the further information pack.

The findings in this case may come as something of a surprise to those who operate websites which are broadly similar to that of SPATA, and who might not consider their websites to be providing “advice” which could form the basis of a negligence claim if it later transpires that information on the website is incorrect. This is perhaps particularly true where, as with the present case, there is no contact whatsoever between the user and the website operator beyond the user viewing the website itself.

The case underlines the importance of ensuring that information on a website is correct, comprehensive and is kept up-to-date. It also demonstrates that website operators should consider limiting or excluding their liability if there is any possibility that the website could be considered to be providing advice of a sort that might be relied upon by a website user.



http://www.twobirds.com/English/News/Articles/Pages/First_UK_decision_negligence_liability_incorrect_website_information.Aspx#page=1



#24317 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:01 am
Subject: The UK Government consults on revised proposals for legislation on illicit file-sharing
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Here's an article  from Herbert Smith IT and Outsourcing E-bulletin-


The UK Government consults on revised proposals for legislation on illicit file-sharing
October 2009

Recent proposals may lead to duties being imposed on Ofcom and on internet service providers (ISPs) to police illicit file-sharing, in order to enhance online copyright protection.

Issued on 16 June 2009 to coincide with the publication of the final Digital Britain report, the government's consultation paper proposed five measures which, if implemented, would lead to Ofcom requiring ISPs to notify account-holders in an agreed format that their accounts appear to have been used to infringe copyright, and to maintain and make available anonymised data to enable the minority of serious repeat infringers to be identified.  This would permit rights-owners to issue proceedings against persistent copyright offenders.  The government’s proposal introduced technical measures which Ofcom could require an ISP to impose on a persistent infringer’s account.

After receiving considerable stakeholder feedback that these technical measures were not strong enough to deter and penalize infringers, the government issued a further statement in September 2009 which indicated it was considering empowering Ofcom to require an ISP to disconnect a user’s account as a last resort.  However, the new proposal generated significant controversy and public debate which culminated in another statement on 25 September 2009 from the Featured Artists’ Coalition (a coalition which includes a number of prominent British recording artists), which supported measures other than total disconnection of user accounts.  The statement advocates a three-strike policy, under which alleged infringers would receive two warning letters before being subjected to significant service limitations on their account, such as slower speeds and blocked addresses.  These measures would inhibit downloading or uploading files while leaving basic email and web access functional, thereby providing a viable alternative sanction to total disconnection.

The UK's policy on file-sharing is due to be announced in November, at which point it will become clear whether internet cut-off is to be introduced as a sanction. Until recently, the European Parliament were reticent to countenance allowing ISPs to cut-off piracy offenders: it had been proposing an amendment to its upcoming telecoms legislation package which would have made it difficult to take such steps without court authority. This month, however, it dropped its proposed amendment to its forthcoming telecoms legislation requiring such safeguards, paving the way for member states to enact laws to allow disconnection as they see fit. The French government has just approved plans which could see offenders cut-off from the internet for up to a year, and the UK government may choose to adopt similar measures.



#24316 From: Vivec <gel214th@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:26 am
Subject: Regulators block BBC's DRM plans
gel2.rm
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It's wonderful to see that not every government arm is in the backpockets of big business and corporate interests.


""The BBC's plans to introduce DRM for over-the-air digital broadcasts were today dealt a setback when the regulator, Ofcom, asked them the same question that has been asked of many DRM systems: 'How does this benefit the consumer?' The letter to the BBC is quoted in the article as saying that 'Ofcom received a large number of responses to this consultation, in particular from consumers and consumer groups, who raised a number of potentially significant consumer "fair use" and competition issues that were not addressed in our original consultation.' This does not end the chance of the BBC being allowed to introduce DRM in the future, but it at least delays their opportunity to do so.""

of course we know from experience that Business interests will continue to attempt to circumvent all consumer rights and fair use through DRM, Trade treaties and other legislative maneuvers. Hopefully consumers and the people keep fighting back.

#24315 From: rhamel <Richardhamelsmith@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:58 pm
Subject: Re: AP IMPACT: Framed for Child Porn _ by a PC Virus - ABC News
handarn
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I have some difficulty with the idea that simply using anti-virus
programs and having a firewall, is enough to keep your computer secure.

In my opinion, it is not. I don't believe anti-virus programs do all
they say that they do.

And firewalls can be beaten. Really easily. All it takes is one program
to get to the net and run a proxy and the firewall is useless.

Security is difficult. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is not seeing the
whole thing.

And I submit, it is impossible for anyone, no matter how well informed,
to know everything on the subject.

That's why I spoke out against the use of the word "stupid". People get
fooled, people make mistakes. Happens all the time.

I think we need to accept that and move forward to a position of helping
people. Illuminating the subject - give a man a fish, ...,teach a man to
fish, ...

It would perhaps be useful to have somewhere where people could
contribute tips and tricks to help others? A page on the wiki perhaps?

Richard

#24314 From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:37 pm
Subject: Legal issues with cloud computing
cintra.sooknanan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
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