Skip to search.
tuning-math

Group Information

  • Members: 191
  • Category: Mathematics
  • Founded: May 21, 2001
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Real people. Real stories. See how Yahoo! Groups impacts members worldwide.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
big "mean" math question   Message List  
Reply Message #169 of 20696 |
Re: big "mean" math question

--- In tuning-math@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> Well, my big "mean" math question has to do with the idea of
> the "root mean square" (RMS) method of finding averages that Graham
> Breed was talking about on the "fat" list...
>
> I'm actually intrigued by this, since I'm not understanding why
> squaring everything, adding it all together and then taking the
> SQUARE ROOT of the sum is going to lead to an accurate average...
>
> Why is this done this way again?? This is pretty interesting,
> actually...

You don't want to take the _straight_ average because it might be
zero just from positives and negative signs canceling out.

The two simplest alternatives are to take the _maximum_ error, or to
take the average of the absolute values of the errors (called MAD,
for Mean Absolute Deviation).

The RMS is known as the Standard Deviation in statistics. It's the
standard measure of error in science and engineering. There are
several reasons for this. Let me give you a rough idea of why it
makes some sense in this context.

Look at the dips in the harmonic entropy curve. Notice how they
are "rounded" at the bottom. Any curve with a round minimum like this
(not getting too technical) approximates a parabola more and more
closely the more you zoom in on the minimum. A parabola is just the
curve representing squared error. So if you sum the squared errors,
you're summing the dissonances, in a sense. And then you have to take
the square root at the end so that the result is comparable with the
units for a _single_ error. For example, in the 3-limit there's only
one interval to evaluate. Let's say it has a 2-cent error. So any
sort of _average_ over this one interval would have to be 2 cents. It
wouldn't make much sense to say the average was 4 cents when there's
only a single 2 cent error, would it? So that's why you have to take
the square root after summing. If you want to get more technical,
check out a statistics book.




Fri Jun 8, 2001 9:01 pm

paul@...
Send Email Send Email

Message #169 of 20696 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Well, my big "mean" math question has to do with the idea of the "root mean square" (RMS) method of finding averages that Graham Breed was talking about on the...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 8, 2001
5:42 pm

... Joseph - I think there's an easier explanation than using vectors. It's basically using the Pythagorean triangle; 2 2 2 a + b = c Try...
Orphon Soul, Inc.
tuning@... Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
7:27 pm

... You don't want to take the _straight_ average because it might be zero just from positives and negative signs canceling out. The two simplest alternatives...
Paul Erlich
paul@... Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
9:01 pm

... THAT'S what standard deviation IS? Ahh.. Thank you Paul. I don't think I ever knew that. Or if I did, I managed to not retain it......
Orphon Soul, Inc.
tuning@... Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
9:17 pm

... Sorry, I was wrong about that. The Standard Deviation is something different. It's actually the RMS deviation of a set of measurements from their...
Paul Erlich
paul@... Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
9:40 pm

... Right, I remember it had to do with the mean, just didn't know how it was calculated. Thanks for clearing that up. ... Actually I've worked with that...
Orphon Soul, Inc.
tuning@... Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
9:49 pm

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/169 Thanks, Paul... this gives me a good overview on this one! It's pretty interesting... ________...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 8, 2001
9:38 pm

[Joseph Pehrson wrote:] ... Is it my imagination, or has nobody already caught the error in this? Paul E, even you??? Before you take the square root, you...
John A. deLaubenfels
jdl@... Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
12:40 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/180 ... this? ... Actually, John... this is interesting because, if I'd known this, I probably wouldn't...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 9, 2001
4:08 am

[Joseph Pehrson wrote:] ... Right. That'd be the "Root Sum Square", which, as you've surmised, wouldn't be very "averagy". In fact, I'm not sure what it...
John A. deLaubenfels
jdl@... Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
10:57 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/186 ... I ... then. ... but all had a "brain fart" (which I know a lot about, 'cause I get them all the...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 9, 2001
12:54 pm

[I wrote:] ... Oops! Well, maybe it'd be slightly useful for such abstractions as the length of a hypotenuse of a right triangle. ;-> JdL...
John A. deLaubenfels
jdl@... Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
11:37 am
Advanced

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help