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  • Category: Mathematics
  • Founded: May 21, 2001
  • Language: English
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7/72 generator in blackjack   Message List  
Reply Message #258 of 20696 |
Re: 7/72 generator in blackjack

--- In tuning-math@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
Joseph,

As a complement to Monz's explanation, see what I just added to
http://uq.net.au/~zzdkeena/Music/MiraclePitchChart.gif

It shows the octave as a circle divided into 72 parts. Start at D> and
follow the (new) straight line segments clockwise. You'll see each one
jumps 7/72 of an octave. When you've done that 20 times and wound up
at D<, you've generated Blackjack.

> Dave Keenan found the MIRACLE generator (~116.7 cents) by use
> of the "brute force" approach: he had his computer perform
> thousands (millions?.. billions?) of calculations and analyze
> the resulting scales.
>
> The ~116.7-cent generator came out on top as implying the
> largest number of 11-limit consonances. ...

Er, no. That all came _after_ the discovery, and merely confirmed its
"miraculous" nature (as a 7-limit or 11-limit generator, but not necc.
9-limit). I was afraid there might have been some holes in my search
strategy, but since then Graham Breed has performed a search using a
completely different method to mine, and (I think?) further confirmed
it.

Strictly speaking, the MIRACLE generator was discovered by Paul
Erlich, who extracted it from a scale that I posted, the 31-noter that
we now call Canasta. Paul then recognised that there was a more
manageable (although improper) MOS with 21 notes using the same
generator. So historically it went: Canasta - MIRACLE generator -
Blackjack - Decimal scale (although, apart from "Blackjack" we didn't
call them that immediately). But logically it goes: MIRACLE generator
- Decimal scale - Blackjack - Canasta.

So Graham,

By what figure-of-demerit and at what odd-limits can we claim that the
MIRACLE generator is the best?

Does cardinality_of_smallest_MOS_containing_a_complete_otonality
divided by exp(-(minimax_error/17c)^2) do it at 7 and 11 limits?
What's the best 9-limit generator by this FoD?

I'm sure some folks would be interested in the 13-limit result too.

Regards,
-- Dave Keenan




Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:14 am

D.KEENAN@...
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Message #258 of 20696 |
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Well, this isn't very advanced... but, if not math, at least it's arithmetic... I still don't understand how 7 of the 72-tET scale is a generator of blackjack....
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 20, 2001
3:10 am

... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@... Send Email
Jun 20, 2001
4:52 am

... Joseph, As a complement to Monz's explanation, see what I just added to http://uq.net.au/~zzdkeena/Music/MiraclePitchChart.gif It shows the octave as a...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@... Send Email
Jun 20, 2001
6:14 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/258 ... and follow the (new) straight line segments clockwise. You'll see each one jumps 7/72 of an...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 21, 2001
2:09 am

... There is only one chain. It _starts_ at D>. It goes around the circle once, producing 9 more notes. Then D pops up. Then 9 more notes. Then D< is last....
Paul Erlich
paul@... Send Email
Jun 21, 2001
2:32 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/267 ... those ... is ... are ... circle ... Then ... Thanks, Paul... I just started on the wrong note......
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 21, 2001
2:46 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/256 ... Hello Monz! Thank you so much for this interesting response. Well, I read ahead, and I guess...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 21, 2001
2:04 am

... Yup . . . it's identical in form to the derivation Woolhouse did (in 1835?) of the optimal meantone temperament, which turned out to have a fifth (the...
Paul Erlich
paul@... Send Email
Jun 21, 2001
2:29 am

... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@... Send Email
Jun 21, 2001
6:22 am

31-EDO is "MIRACLE" in exactly the same way that 12-tET is meantone. i.e. Not really. At best borderline, with large deviations from JI. We have the following...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@... Send Email
Jun 22, 2001
12:40 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/280 ... meantone. ... Thanks, Dave! This is very interesting... ______ _____ ______ Joseph Pehrson...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 22, 2001
3:33 am

... I've also found it useful as a keyboard notation for Blackjack on a traditional keyboard -- it's easy to set up a 2-octave keyboard mapping with the...
Herman Miller
hmiller@... Send Email
Jun 22, 2001
1:52 am

... mapping ... black ... Herman, Could you describe this keyboard mapping in more detail? The main problem I'm having here is that there are 11 "unnaturals"...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@... Send Email
Jun 22, 2001
3:04 am

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:04:34 -0000, "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@...> ... 0^ 1^ 2^ 3^ 4^ 5^ 6^ 7^ 8^ 9^ 0 1 2 2 3 4 5 5 6 7 7 8...
Herman Miller
hmiller@... Send Email
Jun 23, 2001
12:46 am

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/271 ... Thank you Monz, for this. This is the first time I've started to understand it. After the first...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 22, 2001
3:26 am

... It's very simple. 72 divided by 7 is 10, with a remainder of 2. So after 10 generators in the cycle, you're 2 units short of where you started. Another...
Paul Erlich
paul@... Send Email
Jun 22, 2001
7:05 pm

... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/294 ... 72- ... cycle into a large (5-unit) step and a small (2-unit) step as you go around the second...
jpehrson@... Send Email Jun 22, 2001
9:04 pm

In-Reply-To: <9gpf0f+i66g@eGroups.com> ... 11-limit by most figures of demerit, although that is ignoring some obviously too complex scales. 7-limit it's...
graham@... Send Email Jun 21, 2001
6:19 pm

... Your page says "11 limit" where it should be "13 limit"....
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@... Send Email
Jun 22, 2001
1:26 am

In-Reply-To: <9gu46b+b1l3@eGroups.com> ... That could be continued Meantone MIRACLE ... 26-EDO 21-EDO 7-EDO 10-EDO 5-EDO 11-EDO although 7 and 5 may be...
graham@... Send Email Jun 22, 2001
9:08 am
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