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  • Members: 191
  • Category: Mathematics
  • Founded: May 21, 2001
  • Language: English
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graham's linear temperament page   Message List  
Reply Message #4235 of 20696 |
Re: graham's linear temperament page

In-Reply-To: <abmetp+mul3@eGroups.com>
jonszanto wrote:

> So great and so important you couldn't take the time to include a link?
> Sure, we can find it from our collection of links, or do a search, etc.
> - I thought you were the consummate cross-referenced poster.

Everybody does or doesn't include links according to their mood. This one
is <http://www.microtonal.co.uk/catalog.htm>.

I personally would like somebody to include the definitions of the
temperaments I'm supposed to be adding. It's been quite difficult to keep
up over the past year.

> > (by contrast, check out joe
> > monzo's definition of linear temperament if you want to turn red).

After following the links, I thought the "temperament" definition was
lacking, and decided to clarify it. Then scrolled down, and saw I already
had. Although I now disagree with my own definition -- temperaments can
approximate "ideal" tunings other than just intonation.

It looks like the problem with the "linear temperament" definition is that
there isn't one! You simply say it's "another term for unequal
temperaments" which isn't the case. Not all unequal temperaments are
linear.

A linear temperament is fully described by a generator and equivalence
interval. The mapping from generators to consonances is fixed. For
example, meantones are defined by the generator approximating 3:2 and four
generators approximating 5:4. The generator can have different sizes,
giving 1/3-, 1/4-, 1/6- comma meantone, but they're all the same
temperament class. 53-equal, however, isn't a meantone because the best
5:4 is 8 fourths rather than 4 fifths.

Planar temperaments are like linear temperaments, but with two generators
and an equivalence interval. The difference between a generator and an
equivalence interval is only a matter of formalism.


Graham




Mon May 13, 2002 9:57 am

x31eq
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Message #4235 of 20696 |
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this page is great and very important (by contrast, check out joe monzo's definition of linear temperament if you want to turn red). graham, it seems you...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 10, 2002
10:25 pm

hi Paul, ... how about a more constructive criticism? post something that i can use to replace or supplement my definition to make it better. (and also please...
monz
monz@... Send Email
May 12, 2002
6:20 pm

... So great and so important you couldn't take the time to include a link? Sure, we can find it from our collection of links, or do a search, etc. - I thought...
jonszanto Offline Send Email May 12, 2002
7:14 pm

In-Reply-To: <abmetp+mul3@eGroups.com> ... Everybody does or doesn't include links according to their mood. This one is...
graham@...
x31eq Online Now Send Email
May 13, 2002
9:57 am

... Sure, to be expected. But if someone says "hey, here is something to note" and then expects you to hunt it down yourself, it means they think their time is...
jonszanto Offline Send Email May 13, 2002
7:08 pm

... equivalence ... I disagree. I'd be a lot closer to agreeing if you had said "a generator and a periodicity interval" (which can be a fraction of the ...
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email May 14, 2002
2:38 am

... That's more or less my definition of a linear temperament, except I would add that the generators are mapped to from some subgroup of the positive...
genewardsmith Offline Send Email May 14, 2002
3:41 am

... still ... would add that the generators are mapped to from some subgroup of the positive rationals. Making an interval of equivalence part of the ...
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email May 15, 2002
12:05 am

... We could leave off the mapping, though that would make it murky in some respects. Another region of murk are degenerate cases--what if we start with...
genewardsmith Offline Send Email May 15, 2002
6:44 am

... I think it would be nice to include links to music in the various temperaments discussed. I have examples for Orwell and Wonder, and am working on...
genewardsmith Offline Send Email May 14, 2002
3:27 am

... the ... difficult to keep ... pajara -- 'decatonic swing' the piece 'glassic' is <2,3,5[,11]> porcupine in the first section, then goes to the 64:63...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 15, 2002
9:26 pm

many thanks, Graham! so the Tuning Dictionary now has a couple of new definitions: linear temeperament http://www.ixpres.com/interval/dict/lineartemp.htm ...
monz
monz@... Send Email
May 13, 2002
10:10 pm

... Unfortunately I have a slightly different take on this to Graham's recent statement. I'm wondering if Graham really meant to say the following. A linear...
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email May 13, 2002
10:56 pm

... One of them may or may not be an interval of peridoicity--there's no requirement to have one, it's simply always possible to express them in that way. The...
genewardsmith Offline Send Email May 14, 2002
3:32 am

... (or ... "interval ... requirement to have one, it's simply always possible to express them in that way. The key fact is that a linear temperament is rank ...
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email May 14, 2002
11:42 pm

... at ... is ... If ... i suspect you can go through the tuning list archives and find two or three or more musicians who thought otherwise; i.e., in...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 15, 2002
9:50 pm

Hi Graham, Interesting. This definition--"A linear temperament is fully described by a generator and equivalence interval. The mapping from generators to...
D.Stearns
daniel_antho... Offline Send Email
May 14, 2002
2:07 am

In-Reply-To: <abq076+gjf0@eGroups.com> ... I'd prefer to link to a "home page" for each temperament. I already have these in place for meantone, miracle,...
graham@...
x31eq Online Now Send Email
May 14, 2002
10:57 am

In-Reply-To: <abpt98+61vd@eGroups.com> ... I should have said period. It can be fully described by the period and generator, although it can also be...
graham@...
x31eq Online Now Send Email
May 14, 2002
10:57 am

... the ... equivalence ... monz, i hope you'll take note of this. hugs, paul...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 15, 2002
9:55 pm

... oops ... OK, it's been fixed. http://www.ixpres.com/interval/dict/lineartemp.htm and what's "contorsion"? that's a new one for me! -monz...
monz
monz@... Send Email
May 14, 2002
6:35 pm

... If you define 5-limit meantone using neutral thirds instead of fifths, you find a fifth is two generators and a major third is two generators. Because all...
graham@...
x31eq Online Now Send Email
May 14, 2002
9:47 pm

... fifths, you ... generators. ... way of ... i thought that, a few months ago, gene and i argued, and dave finally concurred, that contorsion is disallowed...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 15, 2002
9:40 pm

... closer to ... context is ... hi joe, sorry if i seemed mean before . . . hope you can forgive me! it's just that i've done a lot of work trying to help you...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 15, 2002
9:39 pm

... no sweat, paul -- i'm used to your style by now. :) consider it water under the bridge. the main thing is that i want the Dictionary to be as correct as...
monz
monz@... Send Email
May 16, 2002
6:06 am

... fix ... the line "The difference between a generator and an equivalence interval is only a matter of formalism." should read "The difference between a...
emotionaljourney22
emotionaljou... Offline Send Email
May 16, 2002
8:19 pm

In-Reply-To: <000f01c1fca0$7d449ca0$af48620c@...> ... Fancy that! ... Dave gave some, and I didn't notice anybody disagreeing. The only quibble I have...
graham@...
x31eq Online Now Send Email
May 16, 2002
11:04 am
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