--- In tuning-math@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> In arithmetic and mathematics is the *numerator* of a fraction ever
> considered "more important" than the *denominator?*
No. I don't think so. It's all completely dual.
> Or is that a silly question...?
No. Its a good question.
> It seems to me in simple
arithmetic,
> the numerator seems more "impressive..." maybe because the numbers
> are larger??
In ordinary (non-musical) usage the numerator is just as likely to be
smaller than the denominator.
> Just as in "otonal??" Hasn't the "otonal" series, on the overall,
> been considered *significantly* more important than the *utonal*
over
> the years??
Yes. But this doesn't make the numerator or denominator special. It
makes _the_smallest_of_the_two_numbers_ special. Several frequencies
having their fundamentals ocurring as if they are the harmonics of a
lower virtual fundamental, gives more consonance than several
frequencies that each have one harmonic corresponding to a higher
"guide-tone".
In the case of octave-equivalent pitches we have a convention to put
them in a form that is between 1/1 and 2/1 so they have positive
logarithms. But for non octave-equivalent pitches we can have 2/3
different from 3/2.
For intervals, octave equivalence doesn't matter. 2:3 describes
exactly the same interval as 3:2. I have argued before for a
convention of putting the small number first, as we do for "extended
ratios" such as 4:5:6. But when we want to take its logarithm (to
convert to cents) we will still enter it as 3/2, i.e. big number as
numerator, so that we are dealing with positive logarithms.
But remember these are only conventions or conveniences. The musical
specialness is in "big number versus little number", not "numerator
versus denominator".
... Edward Borasky" <znmeb@a...> ... In musical _theories_ -- not in any of the musical _practice_ that he liked, as he understood it....
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 28, 2001 2:36 am
... No. I don't think so. It's all completely dual. ... No. Its a good question. ... arithmetic, ... In ordinary (non-musical) usage the numerator is just as...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 27, 2001 11:40 pm
... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/428 ... musical specialness is in "big number versus little number", not "numerator versus denominator". ...
jpehrson@...
Jun 28, 2001 3:52 am
In-Reply-To: <9h8hfa+ki4n@eGroups.com> ... The 43 notes become a 41 note schismic MOS, with duplicates exactly where you expect them. Wilson showed this. You...
graham@...
Jun 26, 2001 9:54 am
... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@...
Jun 26, 2001 2:54 pm
... Two or more notes (ratios) of the JI structure become a single note of the temperament. For example 9/8 and 10/9 are replaced by a single "D" in meantone...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 26, 2001 11:11 pm
... You're right . . . the angle stuff only makes sense if two or more unison vectors are not being tempered out. ... Correct. ... We all know the special...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 11:18 am
... I mean the ancient scales that are still in popular use today in various cultures. eg. "meantone" diatonic. Arabic scales. Various pentatonics. Gamelan...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 25, 2001 4:57 pm
... us a ... There are a lot of cultural accidents that lead to "popular use". And those Gamelan scales . . . you'd need some large unison vectors for those,...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 10:00 pm
... And ... Yeah. Dammit. :-) So neither PBs nor JI seem relevant there, except possibly in a Setharian sense. ... That's a JI minor third, so kleismic,...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 25, 2001 11:28 pm
... Hi Dan, :-) I hope the actual point of my message isn't lost because of my ill-advised use of the word "trash". My apologies. I believe I defined what I...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 23, 2001 8:06 am
... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@...
Jun 23, 2001 6:05 pm
... Oh, well, see if you can come up with a better word for "chromatic unison vector" for when I start explaining this. Graham "I toss therefore I am" --...
Graham Breed
graham@...
Jun 23, 2001 6:42 pm
... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/305 ... What is the history of that term again, Monz?? Joe P....
jpehrson@...
Jun 24, 2001 3:11 am
... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/300 ... learned ... It certainly would... because it would be a *lot* easier to "dismiss" your posts!...
jpehrson@...
Jun 24, 2001 3:09 am
... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@...
Jun 24, 2001 5:37 am
... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com...
monz
joemonz@...
Jun 24, 2001 4:09 pm
... type ... Actually, with the 10-note 369c MOS, I was looking for a MOS scale that Paul would have difficulty finding unison-vectors for, that are anything...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 25, 2001 9:15 am
... I think Dan just found unison vectors for your example, Dave!...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 11:39 am
... are ... and ... how ... If that's the case, then it makes my point quite well. Isn't it just a little ridiculous to refer to intervals of 351c and 114c as...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 25, 2001 5:10 pm
... scale ... that ... UVs, ... those ... just a ... as "unison" ... Only if you think of the scale as existing _initially_ in JI. Some of my favorite scales,...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 10:05 pm
In-Reply-To: <021301c0fd42$4989a440$77bcd33f@stearns> ... I did get hold of that book a while back, so it may be where I got the idea from. (I say "may be"...
graham@...
Jun 25, 2001 9:53 am
In-Reply-To: <9h68ft+386j@eGroups.com> ... Yes, it does matter, but the vectors aren't unique. Where you have more than one commatic vector you have a lot of...
graham@...
Jun 25, 2001 10:56 am
... Getting rid of the first column: [-2 2 0 -1] [-1 1 1 1] [ 5 0 0 -2] [ 2 2 -1 0] the resulting FPB is cents numerator denominator 38.906...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 9:47 pm
... Yes, they both give Miracle41, but a different Miracle41 each time/ ... No, it helps to define the temperament. If you invert and normalize the...
Graham Breed
graham@...
Jun 26, 2001 9:05 pm
... Can you explain what you mean by "different"? They're both centered around the 1/1, so it's not the mode that's different . . . ... Well that sounds like...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 28, 2001 1:23 am
... No one was proposing generalizing commatic unison vectors as "chromas". They were suggesting generalizing _chromatic_ unison vectors as "chromas". ... I...
Paul Erlich
paul@...
Jun 25, 2001 11:27 am
... /.../ ... Can somebody fill me in on what is meant by "interval of repetition" here? -C....
carl@...
Jun 25, 2001 4:40 pm
... It's just Paul inventing yet another term for what has been called (ill advisedly when relating to MOS) formal octave interval of equivalence and more...
Dave Keenan
D.KEENAN@...
Jun 25, 2001 5:39 pm
In-Reply-To: <9he0uv+d2ll@eGroups.com> ... One is 10+41n, the other 31+41n. The mapping by period and generator is the same both times. So they're both...