---Herewith my "Orchid of the week"

It is Odontioda Keighleyensis - a primary hybrid between Odontoglossum
cirrhosum and Cochlioda noezliana. First rgistered by Charlesworths in 1908
. This particular plant was in a poor state with no live roots a year ago ,
and has been grown in perlite, by a technique I think I have already
described to the group . To see it flowering like this after a year is very
pleasing, In view of the parentage I cannot imagine that I am ever going to
see a lot more flowers on a spike , but it is very free with new growths ,
so I hope to see multiple spikes in the future.

Regards Geoff

Hello Geoffrey Hands, on 02-Jan-99 11:55:03, you said,
>From: "Geoffrey Hands" <geofhans@...>


>Time for me to add my best wishes for 1999.

Thank you. :)

>On the subject of images (pictures) perhaps we should have a show of hands ?
>Or is there anyone who does not want to receive them?

Hello Geoff.
I will be quite happy to receive them.

>There are two ways of going about sending them . One is to attach a jpeg
>file which may be rather more compressed (?) and certainly has to be
>separately opened. Alternatively the image can be included in the message.

I would prefer the first option, wich I believe is the most commonly used.

>I have been using a digital camera recently - I first uded it to take snaps
>( capture images in the jargon) of the class winners at the British paph Soc
>meeting last month , and have since taken a lot more with the object of
>starting my own web page. I have found it very easy indeed , and I
>particularlky like the possibility of shrpening and of colour correcting ,
>both also easily done in PhotoLite.

Good; we're expecting first class results.

>I have not yet advanced as far as painting oiut backgrounds , for which i
>think some more sophisticated software may be needful ; I have installed
>Olympus software which comes with their scanner ( for use in processing
>existing colour slides) , and I have both mgi PhotoSuite- which the Times
>newspaper says is good but very cumbersome- it came free withthe scanner -
>and also Microsoft  Picture-It 99 which the Times says is maybe the best for
>non-pro use , but have not installed either of these two yet.

I can't comment on this, as I have no such equipment or software.

>However , lets here comments about sending images - maybe we should all send
>an orchid of the week to the group ?

I pass on this, for the time being. :)

>Regards  Geoff.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Grier <Orchidman@...>
To: uk-orchids@... <uk-orchids@...>
Date: 03 January 1999 12:49
Subject: Fw: Photos and Spellchecker



-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Grier <Orchidman@...>
To: Geoffrey Hands <geofhans@...>
Date: 03 January 1999 12:43
Subject: Photos and Spellchecker


Mornin' Geoff,

Just a quickie.  Do you have a spell-checker with your server. I ask this
question because at school and I guess even now, I was very bad at spelling, and
so I have to pay particular attention to my spelling.  That's why I have a
"Spellchecker" come in automatically when I have completed my letters.  When I
tried various 'Servers', I think I am correct when I say that CompuServe did not
have a spellchecker.  Do you agree?  I should have thought that ALL servers
would have this handy toll in their package.

Now on to the photo business.  Yes Geoff I agree with you that we should all
have a try at 'transporting' our orchid pictures.

Perhaps someone will write and give basic instructions [if needed] on how to go
about it.  I realise that we may all have different scanners etc. etc. but I
guess that the instructions and especially any handy tips will be very useful.

Lets hear from everyone with your individual approach to the sending of our
orchid pictures.

There is no doubt that this could be a vital part in our continuing 'Club',
especially as we could all ACTUALLY SEE the orchid in question and possibly
answer questions concerning ailments, problems, etc.

"Early Purple"

Time for me to add my best wishes for 1999.
On the subject of images (pictures) perhaps we should have a show of hands ?
Or is there anyone who does not want to receive them?

There are two ways of going about sending them . One is to attach a jpeg
file which may be rather more compressed (?) and certainly has to be
separately opened. Alternatively the image can be included in the message.

I have been using a digital camera recently - I first uded it to take snaps
( capture images in the jargon) of the class winners at the British paph Soc
meeting last month , and have since taken a lot more with the object of
starting my own web page. I have found it very easy indeed , and I
particularlky like the possibility of shrpening and of colour correcting ,
both also easily done in PhotoLite.
I have not yet advanced as far as painting oiut backgrounds , for which i
think some more sophisticated software may be needful ; I have installed
Olympus software which comes with their scanner ( for use in processing
existing colour slides) , and I have both mgi PhotoSuite- which the Times
newspaper says is good but very cumbersome- it came free withthe scanner -
and also Microsoft  Picture-It 99 which the Times says is maybe the best for
non-pro use , but have not installed either of these two yet.

However , lets here comments about sending images - maybe we should all send
an orchid of the week to the group ?

Regards  Geoff.

Hello Roger Grier, on 01-Jan-99 19:11:52, you said,
>From: "Roger Grier" <Orchidman@...>

>Dear Sylvain,

>Thanks for the kind wishes for 1999.  I hope that you have a happy and
>healthy 1999.

Hello Roger.
Thank you very much for the greetings.

>For this year I hope to soon have a shot at photographing some of my orchids
>with print film, scanning the prints and sending the pictures to our group.

A very good idea; something interesting, to get the group moving forward.

>I will probably send them to you first to see if I press all of the correct
>buttons.

I will do my very best to be of assistance.

>Regards, Roger.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

Dear Sylvain,

Thanks for the kind wishes for 1999.  I hope that you have a happy and
healthy 1999.

For this year I hope to soon have a shot at photographing some of my orchids
with print film, scanning the prints and sending the pictures to our group.

I will probably send them to you first to see if I press all of the correct
buttons.

Regards, Roger.

Hello all.

I would like to wish you all (but Geoff and Roger, in particular) a very
happy and prosperous New Year.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-It had never occurred to me that the size of bulb had much to do with
climate .In Thailand I recall finding Phal manniiwhich of course is entirely
without bulkbs growing in the same forest as various coelogynes all of which had
quite substantial bulbs. I've seen Cattleya mossiae and also percivaliana in
south america , in what is described as "rain forest" but have no details of how
much rain that actually means. I was told that it had not rained for 6 months
when I was there , and El Nino was blamed. But we also had a "shower" - i.e.
about 2 inches of rain in half an hour , or that's what it felt like , but they
did not seem to count that as rain for some reason.
     Geoff.

-But... in the old days - before about 1970 (AFAIR- acronym for asfar as I
recall) when osmunda fibre and sphagnum moss was the universal and standard
orchid compost we all used clay pots. When we had to change over to other
composts because osmunda became too expensive , we all thought that the ability
to usae plastic pots was a great plus. Anyone growing a cymbidium in a ten inch
pot needs a stroing back if its clay ! I should add that we used to scorn
"machine made" clay pots as too thin and weak, and not porous enough , and go
for the old hand made ones which were three times as heavy.

     Anyone who wants a supply might think of asking Mansell & Hatcher at Rawdon
, near Leeds. The last time I was there they had thousands , mostly in smaller
sizes , stacked outside , simply because it was too much trouble to throw them
away.
     Geoff.

Hello Roger Grier, on 21-Dec-98 06:14:53, you said,

>Hello Sylvain,
>
>In reply to your request about orchid pots, you most probably know that I
>grow all of my orchids in CLAY pots.

Hello Roger.
No, I didn't know. :)

>I do this because they are very strong
>and rigid.  This I feel sure puts the orchids mind at ease as its roots can
>then hold onto something firm which does not bend and wobble as maybe a
>plastic pot will do.

Just some comments as a newcomer to the hobby, and owner of just a few plants
which are kept in a room indoors:
Plastic pots are light, smaller in size, hold moisture longer and are easier
to re-pot because the roots do not *cling* to the sides of the pot; and of
course they are cheaper and can be obtained as "see-through". On the negative
side, they can't breathe and can easily topple over with larger plants.

>Most of my clay pots have three slots in them which I
>cut with the aid of an electric drill and a cutting disc.  This is similar to
>the clay pots that you will find in the U.S.A. and in Asia.  Although this is
>not necessary, I find that the extra 'circulation' of air and moisture helps
                 *************************************************************
>greatly.
  *******

I'm sure that it does, but it's a *lot* of work. :)

>If you are looking for the smaller pots in either clay or plastic,
>then I would always first go to my nearest Garden Centre.

I'm looking for *orchid* pots, if they are available; I've only seen the
"ordinary" ones in my nearest large garden centre.

>If you are looking
>for smaller pots that are transparent, then I do not think they are yet
>available, however I feel sure that someone here in the U.K. has used the
>transparent 'pots' that hold yoghurt or similar food items.  Some of them
>look rather attractive when washed.

That's a good suggestion; I'll be on the lookout for them.
>
>I have clay pots from just one inch in diameter upwards ..... I guess it's a
>case of buying when you see them for use sometime in the future.
>
>Hope this helps you in your search.

Yes; thanks a lot, Roger.
>
>Roger.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Grier <Orchidman@...>
To: UK-Orchids <uk-orchids@...>
Date: 20 December 1998 21:02
Subject: Fw: Cattleyas



-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Grier <Orchidman@...>
To: Geoffrey Hands <geofhans@...>
Date: 18 December 1998 07:44
Subject: Cattleyas


Hi Geoff,

Here is a question for the Group.  Even though I and several of my friends grow
Cattleyas very well, we all appear to have some degree of difficulty and also
failure with what we term the "Pencil-bulbed" Cattleyas.  The types are Cattleya
Forbessii, Harrisoniana, etc.  Looking at 'Mother Nature' and trying to work out
why everything was created to work in its own special environment is what it is
all about.  So, as these type of Cattleyas do not have the large swollen bulbs
with much storage capacity as their brothers do, are we to assume that perhaps
they grow in an area where there is no dry period and that they need to be kept
more constantly damp, hence this may stop any disastrous shrivelling of the
bulbs.  Perhaps there are other growers of these types of Cattleyas that can
give their thoughts on this issue.

Regards, Roger.

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Grier <Orchidman@...>
To: UK-Orchids <uk-orchids@...>
Date: 20 December 1998 21:16
Subject: Pots for Orchids


Hello Sylvain,

In reply to your request about orchid pots, you most probably know that I grow
all of my orchids in CLAY pots.  I do this because they are very strong and
rigid.  This I feel sure puts the orchids mind at ease as its roots can then
hold onto something firm which does not bend and wobble as maybe a plastic pot
will do.  Most of my clay pots have three slots in them which I cut with the aid
of an electric drill and a cutting disc.  This is similar to the clay pots that
you will find in the U.S.A. and in Asia.  Although this is not necessary, I find
that the extra 'circulation' of air and moisture helps greatly.  If you are
looking for the smaller pots in either clay or plastic, then I would always
first go to my nearest Garden Centre. If you are looking for smaller pots that
are transparent, then I do not think they are yet available, however I feel sure
that someone here in the U.K. has used the transparent 'pots' that hold yoghurt
or similar food items.  Some of them look rather attractive when washed.

I have clay pots from just one inch in diameter upwards ..... I guess it's a
case of buying when you see them for use sometime in the future.

Hope this helps you in your search.

Roger.

Hello all.

I have some 12 Cms (4.75") see-through pots, but I would like very much to get
some smaller ones; also I would like to obtain some small (less than the
above-mentioned) orchid pots. The only nursery that I have delt with (so far)
supplied some young paphs in *ordinary* pots. Can anyone please comment and/or
help?
Thanks in advance.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-----Original Message-----
From: Gideon Singer <gsinger@...>
To: uk-orchids@onelist.com <uk-orchids@onelist.com>
Date: 17 December 1998 22:00
Subject: [uk-orchids] Re: Fw: Notification of subscription to uk-orchids


Glad to have you join Gideon.

  I did think of going to Vancouver , and in fact started to plan a west
coast tour ending at Vancouver. But it would be rather tantalisng to see all
the things I would want to buy and have very great difficulty getting them
home. UK takes CITES very seriously - in fact go OTT , and insist on having
an export licence identifying the plants before they will issue an import
licence. So for any foreign trip where I hope to buy orchids I have to write
to the nurseries I plan to visit , and get them to send export permits .
Even then it takes several weeks , and the import permit has a limited life
. Further they charge £7 ( $Can 14) for each genus . I also have to produce
a phyto cert from each dealer . So I have to forget impulse buys . Added to
that is that my impression of previous WOCs , like the smaller equivalent
British O,Cs is that they are something of a rip off , with everything
charged at about twice its normal price.So I decided to stay away ,and maybe
go on a trip to some of the Dutch nurseries which is likely to be run by one
of our O,Societies at about the same time . From Europe , it is much easier
because that is not counted as "International" trade.

Will you be in UK at the time of Chelsea Flower Show ? About 18-21 May
although the first days are members only. Thats worth seeing if your
interest extends to other plants,
Regards, GEoff.

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:03:39 -0000, Geoffrey Hands wrote:

>Anyone going to Vancouver in May ?

Hi let me introduce myself, I live in Vancouver, BC and have been
growing orchids for approx three years. Currently I have mixed collection
growing in an intermediate greenhouse. This greenhouse can be seen
on my webpage, url below, as well as pictures of the orcids I have
managed to flower rather than kill:)  Might seem strange that a Vancouver
grower join a UK list, but I go wherever there is information to get. BTW I
hope that those of you that are comming to the WOC at the end of April
plan to spend some time being a tourist as it is a long way to fly. After the
show probably at the end of May my wife and I are comming to the UK
for four weeks.  Have a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year and may all
your orchids bloom.
---
Gideon Singer
"It's A Magical World, Hobbes, Ol' Buddy... ...Let's Go Exploring !" Calvin's
Last Words 12/31/95
Where do you want to Warp today?
Home page-> http://members.home.net:80/gsinger

To all who have joined.
We have had nearly 20 members in the first week - which seems to me to be
good going.
Now lets hear from you.
How long have you been growing; what do you grow? Have you any problems or
questions ? Or have you any tips which may not be generally known ?

Who is going to Llandudno next september ?
Anyone going to Vancouver in May ?

Looking forward to hearing from you all...

Geoff
--

-----Original Message-----
From: Sylvain Van der Walde <swalde@...>
To: Geoffrey Hands <uk-orchids@onelist.com>
Date: 17 December 1998 02:42
Subject: [uk-orchids] Re: Fw:


>From: "Sylvain Van der Walde" <swalde@...>
>
>Re : orchids rotting in rockwool mixes.

The paphs which did this rotted at the point where the roots and leaves meet
, so the fan of leaves became disconnected . I suppose all the roots to be
rotted away. This seems to me to be distinguished from crown rot when it is
the centre of the plant which is rotted. But I always use Physan
disinfectant in all water , so crown rot is fairly rare in my greenhouse.
Rreghards,
GeoffI think thi

Hello Geoffrey Hands, on 16-Dec-98 19:18:47, you said,

>Sylvaine asked where I buy the mix.  I bought the rockwool as "Grodan
>greenmix" after they advertised in "Orchid Review" some months ago. But it
>may be very little different from the ordinary Grodan rockwool for orchids
>which is available from some orchid suppliers in UK and also I believe from
>at least one general horticultural supplier somewhere very near to Bob
>Dadd's Orchid nursery near Weston-super-Mare in Somerset . When I ask
>friends how to get there they also say "go on past Bob Dadd for half a
>mile... etc." but never ask where I am starting from. One of these days I
>will make an effort and find it ( when I run out of my present supply , i.e.
>half way through next Spring's repotting activity) . The foam was more
>difficult - I finally found it at Sylvan orchids ( Allan and Sylvia Grahame
>in Sussex) who sold me a whole bale which filled my boot - in a very
>compressed state. I take it out a bucketfull at a time , and let it expand.
>The baleful will last me until about the year 2098 at a guess, but they will
>happily supply you with smaller quantities I think.

Thanks for that info, Geoff.

>I did try experimenting with different proportions - not too
>scientifically - but those in 50-50 seemed to do very well , and I stopped
>there. So far I have used it for about a year or perhaps 18 months on some
>odonts . and am very pleased. I tried it on some papohs , mostly in 2inch
>and 3inch pots, last Spring, and most have grown very well , but a few
                                                               *********
>rotted off - too wet - but maybe they would have done better if they did not
  ********************

When you say that "they rotted off", do you mean that they died of crown rot?
Or did you *investigate* when the plants started to look poorly?

>live on the same bench as plants in bark mixes. My paphs are grouped with
>all 2inch pots together , all 3 inch together and so on , and all these
>smaller sizes are watered with a pump , hose and rose at appropriate  and
>different intervals according to pot size , whereas the larger pots - 5inch
>and above are hand dipped every 3-4 weeks in the winter and more frequently
>in the summer.

>Note to Sylvaine - I am also experimenting on my computer , trying to find a
>way to compose messages to the group or to individuals when off-line. But
      ****************************************************************
>most times I seem to end up either sending the message prematurely , before
>I have finished it or edited it , or losing the original message so that I
>find I am answering the first question only and have lost the others.

I can do these things, but cannot help you as my computer is neither PC or
Mac.

> Bear
>with me , and practice just possibly may make better , if not perfect!  You
                                                                          ***
>will also gather that I thought others may be interested in the reply to
  *************************************************************************
>your question(s)
  ***************

But of course, that's what a mailing list is all about. :)

>Regards Geoff

>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-----Original Message-----
From: Sylvain Van der Walde <swalde@...>
To: Geoffrey Hands <uk-orchids@onelist.com>
Date: 14 December 1998 23:17
Subject:rockwool/foam mixes.

Sylvaine asked where I buy the mix.  I bought the rockwool as "Grodan
greenmix" after they advertised in "Orchid Review" some months ago. But it
may be very little different from the ordinary Grodan rockwool for orchids
which is available from some orchid suppliers in UK and also I believe from
at least one general horticultural supplier somewhere very near to Bob
Dadd's Orchid nursery near Weston-super-Mare in Somerset . When I ask
friends how to get there they also say "go on past Bob Dadd for half a
mile... etc." but never ask where I am starting from. One of these days I
will make an effort and find it ( when I run out of my present supply , i.e.
half way through next Spring's repotting activity) . The foam was more
difficult - I finally found it at Sylvan orchids ( Allan and Sylvia Grahame
in Sussex) who sold me a whole bale which filled my boot - in a very
compressed state. I take it out a bucketfull at a time , and let it expand.
The baleful will last me until about the year 2098 at a guess, but they will
happily supply you with smaller quantities I think.
I did try experimenting with different proportions - not too
scientifically - but those in 50-50 seemed to do very well , and I stopped
there. So far I have used it for about a year or perhaps 18 months on some
odonts . and am very pleased. I tried it on some papohs , mostly in 2inch
and 3inch pots, last Spring, and most have grown very well , but a few
rotted off - too wet - but maybe they would have done better if they did not
live on the same bench as plants in bark mixes. My paphs are grouped with
all 2inch pots together , all 3 inch together and so on , and all these
smaller sizes are watered with a pump , hose and rose at appropriate  and
different intervals according to pot size , whereas the larger pots - 5inch
and above are hand dipped every 3-4 weeks in the winter and more frequently
in the summer.

Note to Sylvaine - I am also experimenting on my computer , trying to find a
way to compose messages to the group or to individuals when off-line. But
most times I seem to end up either sending the message prematurely , before
I have finished it or edited it , or losing the original message so that I
find I am answering the first question only and have lost the others. Bear
with me , and practice just possibly may make better , if not perfect!  You
will also gather that I thought others may be interested in the reply to
your question(s)
Regards Geoff

Hello Geoffrey Hands, on 14-Dec-98 19:12:36, you said,

Hello Geoff.
I'm replying to this (slightly different) introduction for the second time as
I know you've had teething troubles with this list.

>This is to introduce myself to all who have subscribed to our new onelist -
>uk-orchids. I have been growing for about 36 years, and currently have a lot
>of paphs - in fact a National Collection in NCCPG. Also favourites are odonts
>, or more strictly oncidiniae generally , since I include oncidiums ,
>wilsonara , miltoniopsis etc in this category. I may have as many as I do
>paphs (thousands).I have smaller numbers of cymbidiums , dendrobes, phals,
>vandas and pleiones. Species are always represented as the wide range of
>flower types is part of the interest for me, and many do not fit into the
>categories mentioned .   At one time I sold vandas commercially on a very
>small scale , when I found that the choice available in UK was so poor ;
>whilst I was importing plants from Thailand for myself , I might as well
>double the number and sell the surplus. But I gave that up probably 7 (?)
>years ago . However I am still asked to give talks on Vandas to Orchid
>Societies , as well as on Paphs, and occasionally other subjects.  Most of my
>plants are grown in bark composts , but I am using rockwool/foam (50-50)
                                      ************************************
>increasingly for finer rooted plants which means  the odonts in particular.

>My main greenhouse is triple glazed ( polycarbonate) and mostly underground
>because of Planning regulations ; that gives wonderful humidity which many
>plants love, but actually too much for phals, and since I realised this I
>have advanced from Plan A to deal with it , up as far as Plan D which starts
>soon. I have only been at this address  for 2 years and had this greenhouse
>up and running for 15 months , so it has been learning curve all the way.  I
>have recently put up a smaller Alton house , for cymbidiums and to over-
>winter resting plants , including Yamamoto dendrobes which - experimentally
>are getting 6 hours guaranteed sunshine every day there , from a sun-lamp.The
>aim is to get them to flower all along the cane they way they do in Hawaii. I
>think this is enough about me . What about you ? Geoff.

Hello Geoff.
Do you buy the rockwool/foam mix commercially? Who from?
Did you (the list) receive the two articles I sent you on that subject?
(not my own, of course).
BTW, I'm a newcomer to this hobby (hobby?).

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Hands <geofhans@...>
To: group <uk-orchids@onelist.com>
Date: 14 December 1998 20:11


This is to introduce myself to all who have subscribed to our new onelist -
uk-orchids.
I have been growing for about 36 years, and currently have a lot of paphs - in
fact a National Collection in NCCPG. Also favourites are odonts , or more
strictly oncidiniae generally , since I include oncidiums , wilsonara ,
miltoniopsis etc in this category. I may have as many as I do paphs
(thousands).I have smaller numbers of cymbidiums , dendrobes, phals, vandas and
pleiones. Species are always represented as the wide range of flower types is
part of the interest for me, and many do not fit into the categories mentioned .
At one time I sold vandas commercially on a very small scale , when I found that
the choice available in UK was so poor ; whilst I was importing plants from
Thailand for myself , I might as well double the number and sell the surplus.
But I gave that up probably 7 (?) years ago . However I am still asked to give
talks on Vandas to Orchid Societies , as well as on Paphs, and occasionally
other subjects.
Most of my plants are grown in bark composts , but I am using rockwool/foam
(50-50) increasingly for finer rooted plants which means  the odonts in
particular.
My main greenhouse is triple glazed ( polycarbonate) and mostly underground
because of Planning regulations ; that gives wonderful humidity which many
plants love, but actually too much for phals, and since I realised this I have
advanced from Plan A to deal with it , up as far as Plan D which starts soon. I
have only been at this address  for 2 years and had this greenhouse up and
running for 15 months , so it has been learning curve all the way.  I have
recently put up a smaller Alton house , for cymbidiums and to over- winter
resting plants , including Yamamoto dendrobes which - experimentally are getting
6 hours guaranteed sunshine every day there , from a sun-lamp.The aim is to get
them to flower all along the cane they way they do in Hawaii.
I think this is enough about me . What about you ?
Geoff.

This is to introduce myself to all who have subscribed to our new onelist -
uk-orchids.
I have been growing for about 36 years, and currently have a lot of paphs - in
fact a National Collection in NCCPG. Also favourites are odonts , or more
strictly oncidiniae generally , since I include oncidiums , wilsonara ,
miltoniopsis etc in this category. I may have as many as I do paphs
(thousands).I have smaller numbers of cymbidiums , dendrobes, phals, vandas and
pleiones. Species are always represented as the wide range of flower types is
part of the interest for me, and many do not fit into the categories mentioned .
At one time I sold vandas commercially on a very small scale , when I found that
the choice available in UK was so poor ; whilst I was importing plants from
Thailand for myself , I might as well double the number and sell the surplus.
But I gave that up probably 7 (?) years ago . However I am still asked to give
talks on Vandas to Orchid Societies , as well as on Paphs, and occasionally
other subjects.
Most of my plants are grown in bark composts , but I am using rockwool/foam
(50-50) increasingly for finer rooted plants which means  the odonts in
particular.
My main greenhouse is triple glazed ( polycarbonate) and mostly underground
because of Planning regulations ; that gives wonderful humidity which many
plants love, but actually too much for phals, and since I realised this I have
advanced from Plan A to deal with it , up as far as Plan D which starts soon. I
have only been at this address  for 2 years and had this greenhouse up and
running for 15 months , so it has been learning curve all the way.  I have
recently put up a smaller Alton house , for cymbidiums and to over- winter
resting plants , including Yamamoto dendrobes which - experimentally are getting
6 hours guaranteed sunshine every day there , from a sun-lamp.The aim is to get
them to flower all along the cane they way they do in Hawaii.
I think this is enough about me . What about you ?
Geoff.

Hello Geoffrey Hands, on 13-Dec-98 18:51:55, you said,

>test (I'm having problems)

Hello Geoffrey.
Not for long, I hope. :)

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

Hello Geoffrey Hands, on 13-Dec-98 10:20:11, you said,

>uk-orchids.......
>Welcome to our new Discussion group.

<< snipped >>

>2. Joe Kunisch (Bloomfield Orchids) who is the man mentioned, was asked about
>composts. For paph seedlings he uses 3 parts seedling bark , 2 parts coarse
>perlite and one part of similar size charcoal , plus 2 parts rockwool. This
>is the first time I can recall any professional advocating a mix of bark and
                                 *********************************************
>rockwool , although lots of amateurs have told me that use it , and when I
  ********
>have asked what advantage, have not had convincing replies. But Joe is
>convinced that it gives the best of both worlds. Incidentally for larger
>plants , out of compots he uses medium bark instead of seedling bark , and
>for large plants in 7"or over , he adds some large bark. His plants are
>certainly beautifully grown.

<< snipped>>

>Lets hear some comments , and some new subjects;
>Geoff..

Hello Geoff.
Thanks for this mailing list and your first message.
I include two relevant articles on one of the subjects discussed:_


From ddixon@... Mon Jun 10 14:09:07 1996
To: ahicks@...
Subject: A new potting mix for orchids

Aaron,

You may have seen my posting to the rec.gardens.orchids news group last month
about ground up polyurethane foam as a medium for potting orchids. I am
including below a little more information and the reports that I have
received to date from the growers that I have testing it. Feel free to post
any/all of it to the FAQ. I am offering free samples of the foam and/or the
mix to people through July 1996. Let me know if you need more information.

Thanks

Darrell (ddixon@...)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1993 I started experimenting with ground up polyurethane foam, (not the same
thing as Styrofoam), as an additive to peat based orchid potting mixes. By
fluffing up the mix with this 'fluffing agent', I was attempting to avoid some
of the problems that many people experience with peat-based mixes.

A word of caution here: Urethane comes in a number different formulas. The
only one that I can vouch for is the one that I have been testing. I have
talked to the manufacturer of the foam and they tell me that they believe it
is safe for a horticulture use. It is listed as bio-stable and is not expected
to break down chemically with time and exposure. It is listed as safe for
landfill disposal.

The mix that I settled on is composed of by volume, 50% fluffing agent, 25%
peat and 25% a commercially available general purpose potting soil (not
intended for orchids). The general purpose potting soil contains fine
particles of various types of bark, peat, sand and other things. (The fluffing
agent keeps these fine particles separated so that they do not clump.)

This formula gives a mix with the following characteristics:

   . Is very light, soft and fluffy
   . Does not compress when wet
   . Does not cake when dry
   . Easy to rewet when dry
   . Holds water and air well
   . Seems to respond well to the same systematic watering schedule that is
     usually follow with plants in bark

I pot with the straight mix or combine it with bark or lava rock. So far, I
have had good success with all methods on both seedlings and mature plants.

About 9 months ago, I starting sending some of the potting mix and some of the
fluffing agent out to selected commercial growers around the country for
testing. These tests have had mostly positive results to this point. I would
now like to promote the testing of this material by others by doing the
following:

   . I am making the reports from five current testers available.

   . Through July 1996, I am making free sample of both the peat-based mix and
     the fluffing agent available.

I can be contact at ddixon@...

*******************************************************************************

                          Reports from 5 testers:
                         ************************

Tester #1:

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995

   The mix arrived yesterday.  Weird looking stuff isn't it - I will be
   using it over the next couple weeks and will then monitor the results.

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996

   Sorry I haven't gotten back to you with any results, but I really
   wanted to give it a little more time.  With so many mixes here in the
   humidity, (like NZ spag) everything will look great for a few months,
   and then boom, the roots are gone!  I have tried a lot of different
   peat based mixes also and have had the same experience.  If one doesn't
   fungicide weekly (and I don't), then caution is the word.  Just for
   your information, I have compots, paphs, and phals planted in the
   stuff.  I should know a lot more about 1/2 way through our soggy
   summer!

*******************************************************************************

Tester #2:

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995

   The new material looks very interesting through the bag (haven't opened
   it yet), and I got a "OH no!  rock wool" initial reaction.  I am not
   thrilled by rock wool - stays too wet, but will let you know more when I
   experiment.  More "feeling-up" the bag really did show the silkiness...
   very interesting.

Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996

   Well, let's see: am trying a couple of paphs in the pre-mixed blend, and
   have concocted a phal mix with 33% each (your fluff)/spongerock/charcoal.
   So far, so good.  Doesn't stay soppy like rock wool...

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996

   I really like the "pure" stuff when added to my spongerock/charcoal mix
   for seedlings.  The mix you made up with the soil is probably fine, but
   I prefer the other, as it doesn't seem to compact as much.

Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996

   Have you considered a fluffer/rock wool mix?  I have a 50/50 mix I've
   been playing with in a large baggie, and - although a bear to mix - it
   might work out well as a medium.

   Also...    is the material degradable in any way?  (bio- or "geo-" like
   rockwool or perlite)   I'm curious as to disposal...

Note added by Darrell: The material is considered bio-stable. It is not
                        expected to break down chemically with time and
                        exposure. With prolonged exposure, it may break
                        down to smaller size particles. It is listed as
                        safe for landfill disposal.

Date: Tue, 21 May 1996

   I have had great success with Phals using Cottonwood Mix-ULD to which
   I've added about 30% fine perlite/charcoal.  I have similar results
   when taking my coarse sponge-rock/charcoal mix, and blending in about
   50% fluffer.  The capillarity caused by the adjacent surfaces of the
   flakes seems to help retain moisture over the plain, coarse mix.

   The only negative I have seen is with phals in straight Cottonwood
   Mix-ULD in small plastic pots...it remained too soppy.  Larger pots
   (hence surface area) seem to avoid that problem.  I haven't tried it
   myself, but maybe a bit more fluffer for small plastic pots???

Note added by Darrell: Sufficient drainage material in the bottom of the pot
                        seems to be necessary even in small pots. The material
                        seems to drain well if given the opportunity to do so.

*******************************************************************************

Tester #3:

Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995

   Started using your mix last night.  As a (sort of) controlled experiment,
   I took seedlings (Phals) out of compots and split them evenly between your
   stuff and Pro-Mix (HP).  I've only done half a flat of each so far, I'll
   finish off even flats and put them in similar locations in my plantroom.

   Observations so far.  Your mix has a different feel than most mixes, very
   'soft', almost oily, like potting in cloth almost.  It is nice texture, and
   I like that it doesn't stick to my hands like Pro-Mix.  Very clean potting.
   It does indeed wet down much more easily than Pro-Mix.  It is a bit more
   difficult to pot with, as it doesn't flow into the pot like the fine peat
   mix, and it is very difficult to keep from packing it in.  I assume that it
   isn't supposed to be packed into the pot, so I left it loose. On watering I
   am afraid that it will compact more, but time will tell.  So far so good.
   It looks good in the pots - if aesthetics has any value.

Note added by Darrell: The mix does not compact in the pot when watering.

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995

   Everything seems to be growing fine in your mix.  It is certainly easier to
   water than Pro-mix.

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995

   So far they seem to be doing just fine.  Positives:  Easy to water, doesn't
   compress or wash out of the pot.  Negatives: can't really think of any.  The
   plants in the foam seem to be just as happy or happier than the ones that I
   have in seedling bark.  Pretty similar to the ones in Pro-mix.  We shall see
   how they make it through the winter.  Actually they don't dry out as fast as
   the Pro-mix, which is drying out a bit too fast for me to keep up with, that
   would be another benefit.

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996

   The seedlings I have in your mix are doing much better than the ones in
   straight promix, and somewhat better than the ones in bark.  As soon as I
   get around to it I am going to switch all the pro-mix ones over to your mix.

Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996

   That mix of yours is nice for shipping, it stays nice and tight in the pot.

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996

   Repoted all of the pro-mix seedlings a couple of days ago, they were running
   at about 50% with good roots, and the remainder with few or no roots.  That
   is no good.  Top growth is good in your mix, although over the winter the
   plants in seedling bark seem to have given me the most top growth. Some of
   the multiflorals are in spike, actually.  I strive to grow the best roots
   though (grow roots, rest follows), I have yet to see the difference between
   bark roots and roots in your mix.  I am going to try to finish that bench up
   tonight, if all goes well, so I will let you know.

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996

   Here is my report.  Just (finally) repotted all my Phal seedlings.
   Unfortunately for me, none of them lived up to expectation.  After 6 months
   in 2" pots, only about 8 needed potting up.  Half really wanted to be potted
   down due to root loss, so I did that.  Some of them were just tossed.

   So, with that in mind, I had half a flat of seedlings in your mix, half a
   flat in pro-mix, and a full flat in bark.  The Pro-mix was particularly
   unpleasant, with high mortality and no plants performing well enough to be
   moved to larger pots.  So there.  Your fluff mix did out perform the pro-mix,
   however I was still not entirely satisfied.  The roots certainly looked
   better, but they were sparse.  Under my conditions, the plants in your mix
   that had done the best were the ones that had gotten an extra helping of
   styrofoam peanuts for some reason.  The ones with half peanuts, and your
   mix on the top, were the best, not only of the plants in your mix, but
   perhaps of all the plants.  They certainly had the nicest roots.

Note added by Darrell: Sufficient drainage material in the bottom of the pot
                        seems to be necessary even in small pots. The material
                        seems to drain well if given the opportunity to do so.

   Plants potted in seedling bark were disappointing.  When I went to repot,
   I realized that most of them had been there for over a year.  That would
   explain why they had better top growth, they had been there longer.  Why
   I hadn't repotted them earlier I do not know.  As a consequence of not
   repotting, most of these had substandard roots, as the mix was mostly or
   completely broken down in most pots.

   So, what did I learn?  1) Your mix performs better with at least half the
   pot filled with styrofoam peanuts (I am not particularly surprised).
   2) Pro-mix sucks for seedlings under my conditions.

   I would use your mix again for seedlings, now that I have figured out the
   tricks to it.  I would certainly use your mix before Pro-mix, and seedling
   bark.

   I am tinkering a bit with different formulations.  I think that a 50-50 mix
   of your fluff with pro-mix might be superior to standard pro-mix. Come to
   think of it, some of the fluff in the chunky peat mix might be a good idea
   too, as it isn't terribly wettable.  I have only a couple of plants in the
   promix/fluff, I'll let you know how that turns out.

*******************************************************************************

Tester #4:

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996

   We like the way the mix takes in water. No clumping like most mud mixes.
   Promix is a good example. It seems to dry well though we'll see how it
   goes. We have some phal seedlings going. Some paph compots. Some catt
   seedlings. Some catt compots. Probably a few others, but we need a wider
   range to work on and need to see what will constitute abuse and what the
   plants will tolerate. The mix is sometimes added to other material. Fine
   fir mix for catts and such ensures, hopefully, that the mix won't clump
   around the roots. We made a few batches with Promix. Didn't wet as evenly
   with 75% Promix and 25% fluff.

   I've been testing the fluff. Less than satisfactory, or maybe I'm
   just impatient, but I have a hellofa time getting it broken up. Wet is
   easier than dry but I still wind up with clumps of it.

Note added by Darrell: The fluffing agent can be a little tricky to get
                        mixed into another material. The process that I
                        use is to put the fluff on top, in a layer 1-2
                        inches thick. Make sure that large chunks have
                        been broken into about quarter size and rub with
                        the open hand. I actually do this twice, rubbing
                        in half of the fluff, mixing up the resulting mix,
                        rubbing in the second half of the fluff and then
                        mixing it all up again.

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996

   Phrags are the next victims, plus I want to see just how small various
   genera can be potted out and still survive. Our normal initial potting
   out mixes aren't too good in this regard, forcing us to keep stuff in
   compot longer than we'd like. Catasetums are on the list, as are
   Sophronitis and Cadetia.

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996

   Only two negatives that I can see, and they aren't serious. One, if you
   allow the stuff to dry in pot, it may "Blow Away" when hit with a forceful
   mist..(So turn it down right?) The other is that it needs to be on the top
   shelf, or at least not be below other plants. Drainage from above will dig
   pretty good sized holes into it..other than that, it's great, especially
   for potting out the real youngsters that bitch if they dry out..:)

Note added by Darrell: To avoid this "blow away" and "wash out", it is
                        probably a good idea to use a top dressing of bark
                        or something similar.

Date: Tue, 21 May 1996

   Nothing significant to report. As with my last message to you, the only
   problem that I can see is that top dressing the mix is probably a good
   idea or your run the risk of digging holes in the media when watering.
   Plants that we're growing in it are doing well.

*******************************************************************************

Tester #5:

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995

   Received your mix today.  I have potted up 10 Phrag longifolium seedlings in
   your peat mix , and will compare their growth over time to 20 others potted
   in our standard Phrag mix (10) and our standard Paph seedling mix (10).  At
   first blush, I note that the peat mix lacks "body", and  the seedlings are
   not well "anchored" in the mix upon potting- they wobble. . I think your
   remaining peat mix will be combined with seedling grade fir bark @ 75% bark +
   25% peat mix, as well as other combinations.

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996

   So far, your mix works at least as well as our current `favorite'. I think it
   will take another 3-4 months to be definitive.

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996

   Phrag besseae definitely does not like the new mix !

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996

   Phrag besseae is more sensitive to mix pH than other Phrags. I haven't done
   a mix pH yet, but I would bet it's higher than 7.5. For some reason, a more
   alkaline pH increases susceptibility of P. besseae to erwinia infection,
   especially at the leaf axil, and this is what we are seeing. The other
   Phrags appear to be OK so far.

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996

   The stuff is deadly to Phrag besseae and it's hybrids. The Phrag
   longifoliums will grow in it, but no better than our current bark
   based mix.

*******************************************************************************

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 00:44:46 -0400
From: Pine Ridge Orchids <pinerdge@...>
Subject: [8841] Rockwool culture

      I have been using rock wool for over 12 years. Our primary commercial
crop is Phalaenopsis, with a secondary crop of Paphiopedilums and
Phragmipediums. I have also used the various rock wool mixes on Catts, Dens,
Orchids, Phaius, Angraecoids, etc.
      I first started investigating rock wool as a media component when it
became clear that there would be problems in the future in obtaining both
quantities and quality of the natural medias such as tree fern, fir bark,
and good sphagnum. I tried looking into inorganics as a substitute. I had to
find a product that was uniform in quality year to year and would be
available - I really didn't want to start to produce 100,000 Phals and Paphs
a year in one media just to find out that the next time I needed to order a
truck load of material that it was not available because the was guerilla
warfare in the hills of Guatemala or the New Zealand sphagnum bogs were
being depleted. Cost factors and our own experiences of battling bush snail
populations in sphagnum from Chile also factored into looking into inorganic
medias. This is well before Grodania started to export to the US. At the
time, the only rockwook products available were water absorbent material
based on iron slag - yes it actually started to rust over time and released
vast quantities of iron oxides.
      Eventually, Grodan was available in the US with exports of water
absorbant from Denmark and water repellant from Holland. I have always
utilized the largest grade of rockwool - the European formulations had long
(upwards of 3"-4") fibers. As time went on and I became more and more
comfortable with the mixes, Grodan, of course, had to change things. The
North American manufacturing plant was built in Canada and the fiber size
was drastically reduced - the coarsest today is actually slightly smaller
than the European medium grade - and we use a rockwool blower that actually
seperates each fiber from the compacted bale thus giving us an almost 25%
increase in volume over hand enpanded media. The water repellant
manufacturing process was improved at the same time - the European media was
made repellant by applying a binder to the ouside of the absorbant material
- this would actually over a period of 6 - 8 months dissolve off and I would
be left with a pot of water absorbant media - not what I wanted in the long
run. The repellant from Canada is, from my understanding, totally it's own
material and is repellant throughout. I have repotted multi-floral Paphs
after 2 - 3 years in this media and the repellant is still repellant.
      Every grower has his/her own way of growing and watering and
environments vary drastically all over the world. I have found rockwool, in
our conditions, to be very forgiving. I basically have two media mixes - one
for potted Phals and Paphs that holds a bit more water by having a higher
percentage of absorbant, and one mix for seedling trays that holds less
water because, as is well known in Bonsai, the shallower the container, the
more water it holds - this would be the media I have used on Catts. The
rockwool is broken up with the addition of sponge rock (very large sized
perlite), aerolite (bean bag pellets of styrofoam), and some organic
material. This material the last three years has progressed from Servo
(baygas - composted sugar cane) to various peat-lite mixes and now to coir
(composted coconut husk fiber). The Servo decomposed too quickly on a
commercial basis; the peat-lite mixes grew a tremendous crop of fern
seedlings constantly (these I believe were in the peat mixes because it was
just too uniform to be air distributed spores); and now the coir seems to be
doing an interestingly good job. It's an interesting product - lignin
instead of peat's cellulose - I have talked to Florida rose growers who have
dug up 7 - 8 year old beds and they have said the coir is still like new. I
figure if that is true, the material may last 2 years in pots - which is
what I need.
      I look at speed of production (everything costs), quality of foliage,
and quality/quantity of roots to determine how the plants are doing overall.
It will take at least a full year, even under South Florida conditions where
we get Phals to bloom in less than 6 months out of flask, to determine how a
new media change is affecting the plants. I am constantly running media
experiments because I don't believe there will ever be a 100% ideal potting
media - this seems to be working pretty well for us right now. Hope this has
been of some help to you all --  Terry A. Glancy

From GERRARD@... Sat Mar 23 09:59:40 1996
To: ahicks@...
Subject: rockwool

I asked from some input on rockwool on OLD some months ago and got little
reply.  However since then I do have some experience using it and offer
the following comments for what they are worth.  Most of my serious
collection is composed of Pleurothallids grown in a homemade Wardian
case under HID lights in an airconditioned basement.  Other more robust
plants are windowsilled throughout the house and I even have some terete
leaved things at my lab window at work.  My interest in rockwool was
promted by the fact that most pleurs require repotting every year
(the practice of the successful growers that I know).  The reasoning
was that since RW is inert there would be no breakdown stuff and the
annual repotting would be eliminated, provided one avoided salt build
up.  I tried a few plants in RW plus some perlite and crocked the pots
with styrofoam peanuts for drainage and aerations.  Since the case has
high humidity (another pleur. requiremnet) I used clay pots.  Water has
been rainwater or condensate from the central AC when that is in oper-
ation.  The initial trial looked good and I subsequently repotted
everything in RW.  To date all seems well.  The negative feature is the
growth of green or black slime crud on the top of the media.  Some pots
are now getting a moss growth which is aesthetically acceptable.  One
can justremove the offending layer and add more.  I also repotted my
windowsill stuff in RW, using plastic pots since the air is much dryer
in the house.  These seem satisfactory too.  The lab plants have an
even drier and warmer envirom=nment but are doing well, especially
since there is deionized water on tap.  All in all I think it has merit.
Despite some comment I read on OLD, there are no insects living in this
stuff, including fungus gnats in my experience.  I have had them all!
Hope that this is helpful.  Bernard C. Gerrard, Frederick, MD.

Sylvain Van der Walde
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).

test (I'm having problems)

-----

>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Geoffrey Hands <geofhans@...>uk-orchids
>@onelist.com>>
>Date: 13 December 1998 19:31
>Subject: >
>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Geoff <
>>Date: 13 December 1998 19:29
>>Subject: orchids...
>>
>>>
>>>-----
>>>Date: 13 December 1998
>>>I'm 66 and have been growing for about 36 years. I have a lot of paphs -
>in
>>>fact a National Collection - see NCCPG . I also have odonts, using the
>term
>>>very broadly, and smaller quantities of Vandas , Phals,& Cymbids. Oh ,
and
>>a
>>>lot of Pleiones . I like species , so I have quite a few which do'nt fit
>>>into those broad categories , from Aerangis to Zygopetalum.
>>>My collection suffered quite a bit when we moved house in 96, and the
>>plants
>>>were in care ; and the planners were rather difficult about allowing my
>new
>>>greenhouse to be built. I got there in the end , although had to put it
>>>mostly underground , and I've been learning how to adjust conditions ,
and
>>>nursing plants back to good healthy for the last year. But they are
coming
>>>right now , and with one further change expected next week -I'm waiting
>for
>>>the builders men to come - I'm hopeful of providing very good cultural
>>>conditions. But as you know, its easy to provide perfect conditions for
>one
>>>day , but very difficult to keep it up non-stop for year after year ,
>which
>>>is what is needed to get a plant up to CCC/RHS standard , which is  what
>we
>>>all aim for?
>>>On further thoughts will copy this to the list as it may be of interest
to
>>>others who have joined the list.
>>>Regards,
>>>Geoff.
>>>
>>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: ONElist Notification <notify@onelist.com>
To: uk-orchids-owner@onelist.com <uk-orchids-owner@onelist.com>
Date: 13 December 1998 04:01
Subject: Notification of subscription to uk-orchids


>Hello,
>
>This is an automatic notification message sent to tell you that
>
>   kimirene@...
>
>has subscribed to your list uk-orchids.
>
>
>ONElist
>http://www.onelist.com
>
>

uk-orchids.......
Welcome to our new Discussion group.
To start the ball rolling , I went to the Paph Society week-end at the beginning
of the month where we had the usual two speakers , one of whom is a New York
paph nurseryman , and he described his set-up and cultural techniques. I picked
up on three points for comment :-
1. For water/fertiliser strength determination he preferred to use a ppm meter
rathet than a conductivity meter which is what most of us in uk use. I am not
aware of one on sale her , but it mabe that some other growers , or for that
matter industrial chemists use them . I am not too happy about the blue
conductivity meters , and have had some trouble with them in the past. Does
anyone know anything about ppm meters , availability, cost , advantages etc ?

2. Joe Kunisch (Bloomfield Orchids) who is the man mentioned, was asked about
composts. For paph seedlings he uses 3 parts seedling bark , 2 parts coarse
perlite and one part of similar size charcoal , plus 2 parts rockwool. This is
the first time I can recall any professional advocating a mix of bark and
rockwool , although lots of amateurs have told me that use it , and when I have
asked what advantage, have not had convincing replies. But Joe is convinced that
it gives the best of both worlds. Incidentally for larger plants , out of
compots he uses medium bark instead of seedling bark , and for large plants in
7"or over , he adds some large bark. His plants are certainly beautifully grown.

3.In the slides of his growing house  - rather like a large polytunnel but
walled with twin-wall polycarbonate and a layer of polythene sheet on the
outside ( used - so he says - to preserve the poluycarbonate from uv and hence
keep it lasting "forever" although the polyshene sheet which gets all the uv is
replaced every couple of years) we saw that he grows in two tiers. The upper
staging is about three feet above the lower one. He grows cattleyas and lots of
other orchids on the top layrer , and most of the paphs on the lower layer . It
is of course transparent right down to ground level , and he uses fairly narrow
benches so that there must be a lot of light getting to the lower level. The
only time I tied double decker staging I found that the lower level plants stood
stil, and assumed not enough light , but I did not use a light meter to check it
out. Now that we know a good deal more about needed light levels it may be a
possibility - although not in my main orchid house which is mostly underground
with a low roof  needful for planning permission reasons. But an interesting
subject for debate.

Lets hear some comments , and some new subjects;
Geoff..

Hi there,it's 9:45 am Sunday here in California!I signed up to your UK
orchids list when you posted the address on the orchid newsgroup.Bye for
now,Kim
On 13 Dec 1998 10:26:53 -0000 uk-orchids@onelist.com writes:
>
>At last! The perfect gifts for baseball fans...or anyone. Merchandise
>from
>the Sonoma County Crushers, champions of the Western Baseball League
>(USA).
>Go to http://www.icatmall.com/crushers
>
>There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
>      1. Test and greetings
>           From: "Sylvain Van der Walde" <swalde@...>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
>   Date: 13 Dec 98 00:50:29 -0100
>   From: "Sylvain Van der Walde" <swalde@...>
>Subject: Test and greetings
>
>Hello all.
>If someone is still up, will they please reply to this message.
>
>Regards.
>Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
>swalde@...
>(London, England, UK).
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>

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Hello all.
If someone is still up, will they please reply to this message.

Regards.
Sylvain Van der Walde (Mr).
swalde@...
(London, England, UK).