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Opinion poll: does every variety have an initial object   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #448 of 654 |
Re: [univalg] Opinion poll: does every variety have an initial object

> What is the prevailing sentiment today among readers of this list
> concerning this question? Do you feel that every variety should be
> allowed its initial algebra, or is your position that the varieties
> without constants in the signature should not be allowed an initial
> algebra? And if the latter, why? Because there is something
> technically or morally wrong with empty algebras, or because it is far
> too late now to change the well-established definition of variety, or
> some other reason?

The situation above is similar to the question whether the zero and the
units are irreducibles (or primes) in Z by definition or not.

The mankind has for candidates for the "right" definition, according to
the cases whether the zero or the units are accepted as irreducibles.

So what makes the decision?

Widening the question: introducing a new notion (i.e. an abbreviation),
what makes the possible conservative extension of the theory in question,
a popular and widely used?

The underlying language is also extended by the conservative extension,
and usually the extended language yields a better compression of the
knowledge encoded using the extended language in question.

Not necessarily the compression ratio makes the final decision, since the
handiness of the abbreviation does matter as well.

The better compressions (i.e. better notions) provide better winning
position in the evolution of the knowledge, since easier to generate new
results, to understand the connections, to get a better overview.

In artificial intelligence experiments one can observe the phenomenon,
that whenever the overall size of the current knowledge is just collapsed,
a new essential idea, lemma, notion can be found in the knowledge
collected or generated by the system.

It is a matter of fact, that a book on the introduction to the number
theory is shorter and easyer to understand, if the zero and the units are
not considered irreducible. And that's all!

There are four questions concerning the "opinion poll":

What does all of the above mean for the question of

1: initial objects in category theory?

2: initial objects in universal algebra?

3: empty algebras in category theory?

4: empty algebras in universal algebra?

First, the two obvious cases:

1: initial object can occur in category theory, say in category created on
the base of a universal algebraic variety. Initial object a successful
notion, if you have a category theoretical question.

4: empty algebras never occur in universal algebra, simply because the
compression appeared to be better, if the empty algebras are forbidden.
Empty algebra is not too useful notion, if you have a universal algebraic
question.

Note: the famous and very important AXIOM OF CHOICE is nothing else, but a
specific VERY COMMON algebra construction DOES NEVER OUTPUT AN EMPTY
ALGEBRA!

Second, the two less obvious cases:

2+3: these problems are similar, namely: what to do with the foreign
notions imported from other areas of mathematics?

Chaos can be established, if the MEANING of the notions are altered along
their import from other areas.

What is the real reason for the imports in question?

Probably a result of the other area is needed.

Say, in the case "2:", the sound procedure is, considering a universal
algebraic variety, first to create the corresponding category, second to
extend that category by an initial object, then to apply the category
theoretical theorem for that extended category, and finally to derive the
meaning for the original variety, while the case and influence of the
initial object must be translated back correctly.

Peter.



Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:32 am

prohlep@...
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Message #448 of 654 |
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It is a theorem of category theory, but not of universal algebra, that every variety has an initial algebra. In category theory the initial algebra can be...
Vaughan Pratt
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Sep 23, 2007
12:53 am

... The constants here of course referring to the constants (zeroary operations) of the clone, not just the constants of some basis, e.g. Z as the initial...
Vaughan Pratt
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Sep 23, 2007
2:26 am

Hi, Vaughan, The universal algebra I learned came out of Slominski's little tract on infinitary operations. For him what was of interest were "equationally...
Fred E.J. Linton
flinton@...
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Sep 23, 2007
3:32 am

Hi Vaughan, I am for the empty algebras. However I may note that even the deduction rules of classical logic are affected by that. For example "ForAll x (x=x)...
mhebert
mhebert@...
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Sep 23, 2007
7:01 am

... The situation above is similar to the question whether the zero and the units are irreducibles (or primes) in Z by definition or not. The mankind has for...
Prohle Peter
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Sep 23, 2007
11:33 am

Dear Vaughan, [Executive summary: Yes.] The banning of empty carriers is historically a part not only of algebra, but also more generally of model theory in...
Steve Vickers
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Sep 23, 2007
7:43 pm

Hi, my previous email is a bit more serious, read the new email below a bit more relaxed, take it easy. ... What was the question, your answer to what is...
Prohle Peter
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Sep 23, 2007
10:34 pm

I think Alice said it the best: Words mean what I choose them to mean. GG...
George Gratzer
gratzer
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Sep 23, 2007
11:34 pm

... Dear Peter, Sorry, I was too terse. I meant to answer the question in the subject line, "Does every variety have an initial object?" Steve. (By the way,...
Steve Vickers
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Sep 24, 2007
9:23 am

In the process of the design of the Common Algebraic Specification Language CASL (see www.cofi.info), we have had the very same discussion. CASL has a...
Till Mossakowski
till@...
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Sep 24, 2007
10:24 am
A. Mani
minusiared
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Sep 24, 2007
3:14 pm

I have been deleting most of the E-mails on this subject because I think they miss the need to be clear. Most mathematicians need to think about what an author...
Melvin Henriksen
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Sep 24, 2007
4:28 pm

... This is a key observation (including the subject of the email)! I find the whole discussion too technical ===> we lost ourselves in the thechnical details....
Prohle Peter
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Sep 24, 2007
7:51 pm

Melvin Henriksen <henriksen@...> wrote: Deductions involving the empty set usually require thought, and adding a few...
Mani A.
minusiared
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Sep 24, 2007
11:23 pm

As a semigrouper and from a purely practical standpoint, not allowing an empty semigroup would mean that there are semigroups whose set of subsemigroups does...
Katherine Thom
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Sep 24, 2007
5:49 pm

Dr. Kathy Thom ... In that vein there are also all the various forms in which homogeneous coordinates manifest themselves, such as affine spaces, simplicial...
Vaughan Pratt
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Sep 26, 2007
7:43 am

... Dear Vaughan, I've heard of a mathematician who is interested in doing algebra without using carriers of cardinality 13. On philosophical grounds he...
Steve Vickers
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Sep 26, 2007
11:24 am

Dear Steve, You make some compelling points. However this "mathematician you've heard of" is a terrorist creating mayhem by killing innocent numbers. Whatever...
Vaughan Pratt
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Sep 26, 2007
6:15 pm

Here's a quote from JDH Smith's monograph "Mal'cev Varieties": "If there are no nullary operations, [an algebra] A may be empty. This possibility is usually...
p_ouwehand
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Oct 4, 2007
5:39 pm

... But not in MY book on "The analysis of fundamental notions of linear algebra" (in Hungarian language, 1998, ISBN 963 420 585 2). In contrary to most of the...
Prohle Peter
prohlep@...
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Sep 26, 2007
9:36 pm

... Just in the same way, as in Nuber Theory the word irreducible/prime has two different usage according to it's grammatical position, I see no problem to...
Prohle Peter
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Sep 26, 2007
9:49 pm
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