On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 05:06:28 +0200, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...>
wrote:

> Charles Hope told me that there are currently 351 videos tagged
> "Vloggeron" on Blip TV.
> http://vloggercon.blip.tv/
> This is amazing to me, especially since we've all still working on
> editing video from the event.

And believe it or not: Not everyone uses blip.tv...

--
Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
<URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.

Hey, Christopher,

Congrats on executing your idea in full. Your subject was compelling, the
fellow cutting the tree charismatic and easy to watch. Liked the quality of
the video in all respects, color, compression, editing.

The thing is, once I figured out that your intention was string me along, I
waited for & skipped to the end. An overreaction to being manipulated as
with soap operas.

My attention span in this medium is limited. I prefer folks to get to the
point - even if there is no point or resolution.

A more realistic test would be whether regular subscribers would watch all
the vids through to the end.

What I would like to see is those 3 10-minute pieces edited down to 3
minutes, and how that would play.

Best,
Jan


--
"It isn't done alone. Pay more."
http://fauxpress.blogspot.com - movement
http://dagnyhemingway.blogspot.com - machinima
http://vlogpresskit.blogspot.com - media
http://blog.urbanartadventures.com - literature
http://the-hold.blogspot.com - art
http://homepage.mac.com/janmclaughlin/loveletter/iMovieTheater26.html -
filmmaker

----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Ivanyi
To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [videoblogging] Re: series experiment


Well, I completed the series.



On 6/24/06, Christopher Ivanyi < civanyi@...> wrote:
Thanks David,

Thanks for the feedback!

I hope you catch more of the episodes.

I am curious if the suspense thing sustains itself throughout the series.

Best,
Chris

On 6/24/06, davecircumnavigator < david@...> wrote:
> There was a typo in my message about typos.  Anyway, I liked the way
> you cut to the landscape going by outside the car as you drove.  It
> made for smooth transitions amid the narrated bits.  For me there was
> suspense in what direction the tree fell.  Your friend is so calm but
> he warns us twice about the tree falling in the wrong direction.  When
> if fell with no problems I let out some breath.  I felt a little bad
> for the tree.
>
> -David
> david@...
> www.captainhumphreys.com
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "davecircumnavigator"
> <david@...> wrote:
> >
> > The link doesn't work.  It's the correct one seems to be
> > http://cafesiena.blogspot.com.  Typos.  They creep in.
> >
> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com , "civanyi" <civanyi@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a short series posted online - ten 3 min shorts thus far.  I
> > am curious to get feedback
> > > from the group about whether or not the series is working.  It's a
> > very simple story about a
> > > young friend of mine, and a tree.  Check them out, but please start
> > with the first part and
> > > work your way through the series.  I welcome feedback.  Thanks!
> > >
> > > http//:cafesiena.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Chris Ivanyi

http://www.cafesiena.blogspot.com/




--
Chris Ivanyi

http://www.cafesiena.blogspot.com/

"It was four guys who stayed up late at night and (got) some random traffic," he said. "In 2006, they decided they wanted to do it right. They recreated the site, with 32 team blogs, and hired me as the managing editor."

Unlike the blogs favored by the hordes of traditional media, which use content from paid staffers, The World Cup Blog uses volunteers to cover each country before, during and after the event.

"These are all fans ... not journalists," he said. "They are just people who love the team. Some are in the country, some are scattered around the world."

It also offers written and photo essays on fans and the 12 host cities as well as biting commentary about everything from the bikinis worn by female spectators to the hairstyles sported by some players.

===========================================

The above is exciting, about how a "Distributed Architecture" of bloggers is revolutionzing the way the World Cup is being reported over the Web.

Ant-like ("Distributed Architecture") blogger/reporters are overcoming the Centralized Mainstream Media ("the Establishment")

A software-vendor (I use his product for mobile-blogging, photo& video) is doing a test at the World Cup, I did a mini-test with him a couple months ago.  It can give real-time blogging to a website.

Here is an obvious business-opportunity (just like Rocketboom), to get something going in "citizen Journalism".  My entire project the last year & half in Offroad Racing is live (& near-live) blogging..mobile-blogging & video-blogging, from remote-areas (Baja Mexico, rural Desert Southwest: California, Nevada, Arizona).  One idea is have Rocketboom have an arm, dedicated to niche-markets with dedicated mobile-bloggers & video-bloggers.  My project is about to get funded, lots of millionaires (1 of them is a billionaire, he took a company up to 100billion) floating around & funding my Proof of Concept & "opening doors" (giving me media-passes to do "media tests").  See http://www.jumplive.com/main.html

Another market is Technical Conferences (video-podcasting as a Research/Education tool), I was just at a big-name Physics conference (Supersymmetry & Fundamental Interactions).  http://www.jumplive.com/susy06/index.html  They gave me verbal acknowledgement (by name at the conference) & linked to my 2 blog sites (mobile-blog for LiveWebCast, video-blog for Video-Podcast):

http://susy06.textamerica.com

http://susy06.blogspot.com

 from their main site

Here's mine for the day! Sometimes things aren't as they seem :)

http://nealey.blogspot.com/2006/07/rerun-week-2006-day-6.html

Erin Nealey
Mom's Brag Vlog
nealey.blogspot.com

I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just discovered
that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not getting
picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are working on
figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list to see
if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened. Mike,
Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?

Erin Nealey
Mom's Brag Vlog
nealey.blogspot.com

I'm in Santa Barbara and working on a laptop running Windows 98, so
trying to do ANYTHING is a major hassle, but I THINK I was able to post
Saturday's rerunweek entry:

http://funnytheblog.blogspot.com/2006/07/creative-process-watch-video-
how-to.html

Jay--I will write to you when I get home on Tuesday and have a reliable
e-mail program under my fingers.

Looks like I'm having the same problem.. My latest video didn't show
in my feed..

-Chris

On 7/1/06, Erin Nealey <schmee@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just discovered
> that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not getting
> picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are working on
> figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list to see
> if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened. Mike,
> Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?
>
> Erin Nealey
> Mom's Brag Vlog
> nealey.blogspot.com
>
>



--
http://www.ChrisDanielVideos.com

Ditto.

I ended up resynching my feed through the Feedburner site. My latest video
finally showed
up in iTunes.

David
http://www.davidhowellstudios.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Daniel" <chcdaniel@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like I'm having the same problem.. My latest video didn't show
> in my feed..
>
> -Chris
>
> On 7/1/06, Erin Nealey <schmee@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just discovered
> > that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not getting
> > picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are working on
> > figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list to see
> > if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened. Mike,
> > Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?
> >
> > Erin Nealey
> > Mom's Brag Vlog
> > nealey.blogspot.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.ChrisDanielVideos.com
>

When I log into my feedburner account and check "Podmedic" under the
Troubleshootize tab, I get this message as the reason the media
enclosure wasn't created:

Media enclosure not created because: The content type returned from
your hosting server was incorrect for your SmartCast settings.

Is this what you are getting Chris? And sorry JARED, I spelled your
name wrong :)

Erin Nealey
Mom's Brag Vlog
nealey.blogspot.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Daniel" <chcdaniel@...>
wrote:
>
> Looks like I'm having the same problem.. My latest video didn't show
> in my feed..
>
> -Chris
>
> On 7/1/06, Erin Nealey <schmee@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just discovered
> > that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not getting
> > picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are working on
> > figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list to see
> > if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened. Mike,
> > Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?
> >
> > Erin Nealey
> > Mom's Brag Vlog
> > nealey.blogspot.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.ChrisDanielVideos.com
>

Thanks David, that totally fixed my problem! I'm happy now :)

Erin Nealey
Mom's Brag Vlog
nealey.blogspot.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Howell" <taoofdavid@...>
wrote:
>
> Ditto.
>
> I ended up resynching my feed through the Feedburner site. My latest
video finally showed
> up in iTunes.
>
> David
> http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Daniel" <chcdaniel@> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like I'm having the same problem.. My latest video didn't show
> > in my feed..
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> > On 7/1/06, Erin Nealey <schmee@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just discovered
> > > that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not
getting
> > > picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are working on
> > > figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list
to see
> > > if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened.
Mike,
> > > Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?
> > >
> > > Erin Nealey
> > > Mom's Brag Vlog
> > > nealey.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.ChrisDanielVideos.com
> >
>

Hi Erin,

It seems Blip.tv is now returning the correct response which is a
redirect to the media file with the correct content-type.  For a while
there, it was returning a content type of html to the file request
from our user agent.

Let us know if you see any further issues and we'd be glad to follow up.

Thanks,
Jessie Chavez
Feedburner Engineering Team

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Erin Nealey" <schmee@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks David, that totally fixed my problem! I'm happy now :)
>
> Erin Nealey
> Mom's Brag Vlog
> nealey.blogspot.com
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Howell" <taoofdavid@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ditto.
> >
> > I ended up resynching my feed through the Feedburner site. My latest
> video finally showed
> > up in iTunes.
> >
> > David
> > http://www.davidhowellstudios.com
> >
> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Daniel" <chcdaniel@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like I'm having the same problem.. My latest video didn't show
> > > in my feed..
> > >
> > > -Chris
> > >
> > > On 7/1/06, Erin Nealey <schmee@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I've been having a problem with my feed lately, and just
discovered
> > > > that it's only my videos that I've hosted on blip that are not
> getting
> > > > picked up. I contacted Feedburner, and they said they are
working on
> > > > figuring out why, but I thought I'd shoot this out to the list
> to see
> > > > if anyone has had this problem or might know how this happened.
> Mike,
> > > > Charles, Jarrett.. anyone?
> > > >
> > > > Erin Nealey
> > > > Mom's Brag Vlog
> > > > nealey.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.ChrisDanielVideos.com
> > >
> >
>

I just got an email that my photos were selected to be on the
Nationwide company's billboard in Times Square on July 3-7 at exactly
4:30:00pm!!!

http://desktop.lifecomesatyoufast.com/main.htm?i=2472F3CD-491B-4DA2-8A12-AD1E4C9\
F664E

I would be so, so thankful if a videoblogger or three in NYC could
somehow possibly happen down there and video blog my son in times
square?  I put three pictures up there, and said happy 6th birthday
Dylan... I can't remember all three, but I'm pretty sure these are two
of them...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitykity/131651657/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitykity/131651641/

Thank you so much in advance if you can do this!  Maybe I'll send you
something special from Texas.  :)

Susan
http://vlog.kitykity.com

That is SO awesome!! Congrats Susan. I hope someone can vlog it!

Erin Nealey
Mom's Brag Vlog
nealey.blogspot.com

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" <kitykity@...> wrote:
>
> I just got an email that my photos were selected to be on the
> Nationwide company's billboard in Times Square on July 3-7 at exactly
> 4:30:00pm!!!
>
>
http://desktop.lifecomesatyoufast.com/main.htm?i=2472F3CD-491B-4DA2-8A12-AD1E4C9\
F664E
>
> I would be so, so thankful if a videoblogger or three in NYC could
> somehow possibly happen down there and video blog my son in times
> square?  I put three pictures up there, and said happy 6th birthday
> Dylan... I can't remember all three, but I'm pretty sure these are two
> of them...
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitykity/131651657/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitykity/131651641/
>
> Thank you so much in advance if you can do this!  Maybe I'll send you
> something special from Texas.  :)
>
> Susan
> http://vlog.kitykity.com
>

Related --

http://campcamptahoe.pbwiki.com/FrontPage :

CampCamp Tahoe

When: July 14th - 16th
Where: South Lake Tahoe with specific address coming soon.
What's it look like:
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/vac/171494484.html

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Josh Wolf <inthecity@...> wrote:
>
> Node101 is about teaching people how to vlog; vlog camp would be about
> building community within  the meetspace amongst people who are already
> vlogging. Vlog camp would have no specific vlog-related agenda but
might
> have a few things set up as options such as hikes, mountain biking, you
> know camping stuff.
>
> It would also be interesting, to do this in an area secluded enough
that
> we *don't* have cell phone access. I know that's a strange thought
here,
> but the idea I'm envisioning is to focus on these real-world
connections
> without the virtual space distractions.
>
> Josh
>
>
> Jay dedman wrote:
> >
> > > For two days, it was like there was this little pocket of people who
> > > felt like it's own little village and that got me to thinking about
> > > other approaches to vlog-gatherings and about Wine and Bar Camp;
I don't
> > > know exactly what either Wine or Bar Camp is, I mean, I get the
beer &
> > > wine part; it seems like some sort of experiment in building
meet-space
> > > community instigated by connections and similar interests
online. I'm
> > > not sure if that's what it is or not.
> > > But how about vlog camp? We could send a few days just hanging out
> > > shooting the shit, and shooting shit. It might be fun.
> >
> > this is exactly what we thought Node101 should become.
> > instead of brick and motar spaces, Node101 is more like a vlog camp.
> > see our documentation:
> > http://node101.org/community <http://node101.org/community>
> >
> > we also raised 20,000$ at Vloggercon for seed money to help organize
> > these events.
> > so you wan to organize a big saturday event where people in your area
> > come to learn to videoblog or show off their work?
> > Node101 can through you 100$ to buy the pizza.
> >
> > check out how barcamp.org is doing it.
> > its all self-organizing off a shared format.
> >
> > jay
> >
> > --
> > Adventures in Videoblogging
> > <http://www.momentshowing.net <http://www.momentshowing.net>>
> > <http://FireAnt.tv <http://FireAnt.tv>>
> > <http://node101.org <http://node101.org>>
> > Cell: 917 371 6790
> >
> >
>

Hi David,

The issue earlier this week was that Blip.tv was returning a 200
text/html (not a 302) when our user agent (using the header Feedburner
1.0/http://www.feedburner.com) made a request for a media file hosted
there.

It's now working correctly in which they return 302's (content type
doesn't matter here but it's text/html) and eventually get to a 200
with the correct media mime type.  This is the 'standard' way it
usually works and we handle correctly, as most web clients.

The issue was simply the incorrect response to a non-browser user
agent at blip which now seems to be corrected. It was working fine in
a browser window (which uses a browser user agent) which is why it was
hard to find the issue.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Jessie Chavez
Feedburner Engineering Team



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "David Meade" <meade.dave@...>
wrote:
>
> On 7/1/06, jchavezb <jessiec@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Erin,
> >
> > It seems Blip.tv is now returning the correct response which is a
> > redirect to the media file with the correct content-type.  For a while
> > there, it was returning a content type of html to the file request
> > from our user agent.
> >
> > Let us know if you see any further issues and we'd be glad to
follow up.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jessie Chavez
> > Feedburner Engineering Team
>
>
>
> Jessie, I'm a bit confused by this.  As it turns out, I have a few
tickets
> open witht he IE7 beta 3 team in regards to a few bugs I found, and
one of
> them relates to (I believe) how it handles the content-type returned
from
> redirects, so I'm very interested in this.  If you'll forgive my
ignorance,
> I'd love to ask you a few questions ...
>
> I just did some header checks and:
>
> 1) It appears the blip redirect is (still) returning "text/html;
> charset=iso-8859-1"
> 2) 302 redirects are supposed to return the content type they point to!?
> 3) If so, should they return the content type they point to, or to the
> resource at the end of the redirect chain?
> 4) I have feedburners download tracking turned on and this redirect -
> although it does return video/quicktime .. does not point to my
movie but to
> ANOTHER feedburner redirect ... which returns "text/plain".
Shouldn't this
> final feedburner redirect then also return "video/quicktime"?
> 5) If the 302 content-type should return the content type it points
to ...
> what if it points to another redirect, which points to a video?
This seems
> to be the case for a feedburner download tracking url.  Oddly the
content
> types returned by feed burner seem backwards (video->text)
>
> It seems I'm in the following situation.  My enclosures go through
several
> redirects in this order:
>
> feedburner1 -->  feedburner2 --> blip1 --> MovieFile
>
> And the above path returnes the following content-types:
>
> video/quicktime  --> text/plain  -->  text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 -->
> video/quicktime
>
> It seems to me, that if there is a rule about the content-type given
by a
> redirect, both blip and feedburner are still breaking the rule.
>
> Doesnt it make more sense to discount the content type given in a "300"
> redirect and use the content type from fir first resulting "200"
successful
> http request?
>
> - Dave
>
> --
> http://www.DavidMeade.com
> feed:  http://www.DavidMeade.com/feed
>

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 17:36:20 +0200, David Meade <meade.dave@...>
wrote:

> 1) It appears the blip redirect is (still) returning "text/html;
> charset=iso-8859-1"

Shouldn't be a problem (it's a Feedburner problem if this is the cause).

> 2) 302 redirects are supposed to return the content type they point to!?

No. On GET requests servers are supposed to include a short hypertext link
to the redirect location on a 302. Makes sense since you can run into user
agents that don't understand the 302. Returning text/html along with a 302
is perfectly normal no matter what lies behind the redirect.

--
Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen
<URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ >
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.

Yeah, CampCamp looks pretty cool, and I actually just returned from
Stargaze which could be defined as another sort of camp... I'm actually
in the process of trying to draft up a proposal for vlogcamp and see if
enough people are interested and can commit to cover the costs
associated. It looks like it'll probably be in Tahoe, as Tahoe is just
really pretty and it's easy enough to get here...

Josh

Enric wrote:
>
> Related --
>
> http://campcamptahoe.pbwiki.com/FrontPage
> <http://campcamptahoe.pbwiki.com/FrontPage> :
>
> CampCamp Tahoe
>
> When: July 14th - 16th
> Where: South Lake Tahoe with specific address coming soon.
> What's it look like:
> http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/vac/171494484.html
> <http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/vac/171494484.html>
>
> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com>, Josh Wolf <inthecity@...> wrote:
> >
> > Node101 is about teaching people how to vlog; vlog camp would be about
> > building community within the meetspace amongst people who are already
> > vlogging. Vlog camp would have no specific vlog-related agenda but
> might
> > have a few things set up as options such as hikes, mountain biking, you
> > know camping stuff.
> >
> > It would also be interesting, to do this in an area secluded enough
> that
> > we *don't* have cell phone access. I know that's a strange thought
> here,
> > but the idea I'm envisioning is to focus on these real-world
> connections
> > without the virtual space distractions.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> > Jay dedman wrote:
> > >
> > > > For two days, it was like there was this little pocket of people who
> > > > felt like it's own little village and that got me to thinking about
> > > > other approaches to vlog-gatherings and about Wine and Bar Camp;
> I don't
> > > > know exactly what either Wine or Bar Camp is, I mean, I get the
> beer &
> > > > wine part; it seems like some sort of experiment in building
> meet-space
> > > > community instigated by connections and similar interests
> online. I'm
> > > > not sure if that's what it is or not.
> > > > But how about vlog camp? We could send a few days just hanging out
> > > > shooting the shit, and shooting shit. It might be fun.
> > >
> > > this is exactly what we thought Node101 should become.
> > > instead of brick and motar spaces, Node101 is more like a vlog camp.
> > > see our documentation:
> > > http://node101.org/community <http://node101.org/community>
> <http://node101.org/community <http://node101.org/community>>
> > >
> > > we also raised 20,000$ at Vloggercon for seed money to help organize
> > > these events.
> > > so you wan to organize a big saturday event where people in your area
> > > come to learn to videoblog or show off their work?
> > > Node101 can through you 100$ to buy the pizza.
> > >
> > > check out how barcamp.org is doing it.
> > > its all self-organizing off a shared format.
> > >
> > > jay
> > >
> > > --
> > > Adventures in Videoblogging
> > > <http://www.momentshowing.net <http://www.momentshowing.net>
> <http://www.momentshowing.net <http://www.momentshowing.net>>>
> > > <http://FireAnt.tv <http://FireAnt.tv> <http://FireAnt.tv
> <http://FireAnt.tv>>>
> > > <http://node101.org <http://node101.org> <http://node101.org
> <http://node101.org>>>
> > > Cell: 917 371 6790
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

So I guess a full week, it is.

Here is one of my videos I really like but dont have on my own site.  I keep it
"hidden" on my
blip.tv page:

http://schlomo.blip.tv/file/2068

It's just a simple character study on sex and death.  Goes down easy on a
Saturday!

Schlomo
http://schlomolog.blogspot.com
http://vloggercon.com

So, I went all silent after Vloggercon. That's because the day after I
got back, I came down sick with a chest cold that turned bronchitis.
And now, 3 weeks later, I'm stick congested. I HATE being sick!

So, let that be a warning to us all-- we should all videoblog safely
from our homes, isolated from one another's germs and weird diseases.

Meanwhile, I had a couple of public speaking things on Wednesday which
I'll be vlogging. One was my Toastmasters speech which required "vocal
variety." Have you ever tried to vary your voice when your nose is all
stuffed up? Yeah-- that was "fun," but at least it made an interesting
video for you all to see.

Best wishes,
Stephanie

--
Stephanie Bryant
mortaine@...
Blogs, vlogs, and audioblogs at:
http://www.mortaine.com/blogs

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Jan" <jannie.jan@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone scheduled? Doesn't seem so...
>
> http://www.voxmedia.org/wiki/Videoblogger_Videoconferences
>
> :(

Cheer up Jan, here is a video conference just for you:

http://flash.kmi.open.ac.uk:8080/fm/index.php?pwd=2635c7-4892

and any other vloggers.

John Leeke

Due to an interuption in the regularly scheculed conferences, I have
set up this conference for today, now in progress:

http://flash.kmi.open.ac.uk:8080/fm/index.php?pwd=2635c7-4892


John Leeke