http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html



"Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two videobloggers

who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations evaded

detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time about

why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.



"Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented in

photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing tv

episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the link.  So interesting.  I'm glad they were able to

avoid detention.



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

>

> http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

>

> "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

> participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

> the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two videobloggers

> who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations evaded

> detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time about

> why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

>

> "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

> Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented in

> photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

> below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing tv

> episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

> country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

hey Jay and Ryanne

 

 I just watched your video bout Beijing in Boing ´n Tv

 

you look worried and scared...heheh you guys are really brave to do that...

 

but first of all thanks you are safe and back home...

 

I have lived in China for more than 8 years and I know the way it works and

believe me

 

I would never do what you did... and thanks that they were in the Olympics if

not other

 

things would have happened to those protesters...

 

 

I was under arrest a couple of times for using my videocameras in different

cities while

 

traveling and was filmming something that I was not supposed to...and got

free...thanks

 

that I probed I was not doing anything wrong against the policies and rules of

China and..

 

that I was not "American" (they tend to think that americans or foreigners are

spies),,,thanks I could probe I am SouthAmerican...

 

"We should respect our hosts ... I mean if I go to your house and start

criticizing the way

 

 you decorate your house ...what you eat...the way you behave in your  own

house...your

 

rules ....and worse...I try to change it ...I dont think you would welcome me

next time I

 

wanna drop by your place..."

 

 

anyway

 

welcome back

 

PD:  one question ??

 

would you dare to go back to China and do it again ??

 

;0)~

 

regards

 

JohnDkar - aka- Juan Cardenas

 

www.youtube.com/johndkar

 

www.cardren.com

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

---------------------------------

 

 





--- On Mon, 8/25/08, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:



From: Rupert <rupert@...>

Subject: [videoblogging] Jay and Ryanne interviewed in Beijing on BoingBoing TV

To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:20 PM













http://tv.boingboin g.net/2008/ 08/25/boing- boing-tv- proti.html



"Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two videobloggers

who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations evaded

detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time about

why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.



"Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry. com spoke to us over

Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented in

photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing tv

episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

me...but.....



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

>

> http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

>

> "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

> participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

> the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

videobloggers

> who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

evaded

> detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

about

> why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

>

> "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

> Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

in

> photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

> below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

tv

> episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

> country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

I thought it was funny - just made me laugh at the advertiser - but

yeah, i'm pretty amazed at the stupidity of advertisers, still making

one-size-fits-all adverts, even little 5 second pre-roll ones.

simplistic ideas of brand identity etc mean they can't get their

heads around supplying a variety of different tones to be used

depending on the content.  without realising that this kind of use of

your brand makes you seem like an idiot. they might as well have

inserted the title sequence from The Hills.



On 26-Aug-08, at 9:52 AM, Heath wrote:



I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

me...but.....



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

  >

  > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

  >

  > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

  > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

  > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

videobloggers

  > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

evaded

  > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

about

  > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

  >

  > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

  > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

in

  > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

  > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

tv

  > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

  > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

  >

  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  >













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hmm... I had assumed that Heath was talking about overlay ads DURING

the program.  I don't have a problem with pre-roll and post-roll ads

of whatever type.  They just have to be integrated properly with the

subject matter.  I say if pre-roll's going to be peppy and bouncy, get

it out of the way in the first 3 seconds of the show, before the

on-air talent sets up the piece.



Then again, unfortunately, some groups don't burn their ads in

directly.  I forget what the name is of the service, but when I did my

Indy Mogul episode, the plan was to provide two segments that made up

the entire show, and the commercial in between was added by that

program/service.  I'll assume that's so the ads can be dynamically

inserted.



Anyway, like I said in the other post, it's the difference between

doing art for the sake of art and doing art so that people will stop

by and click on it and give you some ad revenue.  hahaha It's only

going to get worse from here on out! :D





--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

>

> I thought it was funny - just made me laugh at the advertiser - but

> yeah, i'm pretty amazed at the stupidity of advertisers, still making

> one-size-fits-all adverts, even little 5 second pre-roll ones.

> simplistic ideas of brand identity etc mean they can't get their

> heads around supplying a variety of different tones to be used

> depending on the content.  without realising that this kind of use of

> your brand makes you seem like an idiot. they might as well have

> inserted the title sequence from The Hills.

>

> On 26-Aug-08, at 9:52 AM, Heath wrote:

>

> I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

> and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

> big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

> off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

> detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

> before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

> for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

> me...but.....

>

> Heath

> http://batmangeek.com

> http://heathparks.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

>  >

>  > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

>  >

>  > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

>  > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

>  > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> videobloggers

>  > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> evaded

>  > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> about

>  > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

>  >

>  > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

>  > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

> in

>  > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

>  > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

> tv

>  > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

>  > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

>  >

>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack" <billcammack@...>

wrote:

>

> hmm... I had assumed that Heath was talking about overlay ads DURING

> the program.  I don't have a problem with pre-roll and post-roll ads

> of whatever type.  They just have to be integrated properly with the

> subject matter.  I say if pre-roll's going to be peppy and bouncy, get

> it out of the way in the first 3 seconds of the show, before the

> on-air talent sets up the piece.

>

> Then again, unfortunately, some groups don't burn their ads in

> directly.  I forget what the name is of the service, but when I did my

> Indy Mogul episode, the plan was to provide two segments that made up

> the entire show, and the commercial in between was added by that

> program/service.  I'll assume that's so the ads can be dynamically

> inserted.

>

> Anyway, like I said in the other post, it's the difference between

> doing art for the sake of art and doing art so that people will stop

> by and click on it and give you some ad revenue.  hahaha It's only

> going to get worse from here on out! :D

>

>



And maybe it's going to get better.



BoingBoing is able to lure advertising because of the way the internet

has been hyped up.  But when the hype dies, and the advertisers move

on to more professional content, maybe there will be room for small

self-sustaining communities to emerge.



I just checked BoingBoing's classified rates.  Even the cheapest ad is

ten times beyond my budget.  But what if the "directory of wonderful

things" was being run by people who were happy being small?  What if

they were satisfied with shoe string budgets and labors of love?



I want a directory where I can pay $20 to promote my latest "art for

the sake of art" video.



But I don't think it's likely to happen until the bubble pops.

There's too much big money being bet on the internet.  I mean, how do

you get people excited about DIY social networks when myspace is so

easy and convenient?



So maybe things will get better.  Or worse.  The bubble could take net

neutrality with it.  Let me write the story:



Is anybody reading this old enough to remember YouTube?  It was one of

the biggest media sharing sites during "web 2.0", the great democracy

experiment that failed.  There was no market for consumer generated

content but those behind the technology believed in "the people".

Unfortunately, their ideals clashed with reality and all their social

networks went under during the time of the food riots.  But wait, this

story has a happy ending!  Nearly all of our modern day technology

depends on what was once called "The Internet".  Let's take a moment

to tip our ear pieces to those idealistic dreamers who made it all

possible.  If it wasn't for them, we would not have many of the

conveniences we now take for granted, such as television on our

telephones.  We chuckle at the revolutionary language they used but

there can be no doubt: they were pioneers who made the world a better

place.



-John Totalvom.

thinking about it, the main reason it was so obnoxious was because it

came after the intro soundbite from jay and after the boingboing tv

ident, so it wasn't just pre-roll, it was inserted after you've

already thought the episode was beginning.



it wouldn't have been *as* bad (though still pretty inappropriate) if

it had been the first thing you see before the real content began.



i know you guys in the US are used to this kind of advertising on TV

- credits, adverts, content, but it's pretty invasive and people in

the UK would never stand for it.  we even get to see the credits of

the show before the adverts roll.



ads are less hateful when they come before the show starts, and at

natural break points in the middle and at the very end.





On 26-Aug-08, at 10:00 AM, Rupert wrote:



I thought it was funny - just made me laugh at the advertiser - but

yeah, i'm pretty amazed at the stupidity of advertisers, still making

one-size-fits-all adverts, even little 5 second pre-roll ones.

simplistic ideas of brand identity etc mean they can't get their

heads around supplying a variety of different tones to be used

depending on the content. without realising that this kind of use of

your brand makes you seem like an idiot. they might as well have

inserted the title sequence from The Hills.



On 26-Aug-08, at 9:52 AM, Heath wrote:



I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

me...but.....



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

  >

  > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

  >

  > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

  > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

  > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

videobloggers

  > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

evaded

  > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

about

  > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

  >

  > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

  > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

in

  > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

  > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

tv

  > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

  > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

  >

  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  >



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't know

anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them specifically, but

that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click on your

video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay people's

salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.



It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for free if

you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an entire

sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to ditch

the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to make

free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free boingboing

videos with whatever ads you saw on them.



I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :) and I

agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me with

overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come up, so

as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE LOWER 3RD

OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's the

only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people are in

the dark the whole time.



Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion, but

like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art that is

poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the artist

(content creator) intended.



Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in the first

place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with boingboing)



Bill Cammack

http://billcammack.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@...> wrote:

>

> I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

> and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

> big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

> off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

> detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

> before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

> for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

> me...but.....

>

> Heath

> http://batmangeek.com

> http://heathparks.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> >

> > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

> >

> > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

> > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

> > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> videobloggers

> > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> evaded

> > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> about

> > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

> >

> > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

> > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

> in

> > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

> > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

> tv

> > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

> > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

Oh indeed I do know that is the nature of the "biz" but I can't help

but think, maybe an ad for not smoking or maybe a company that is

doing "green" or social things, etc...maybe that would have been a

better fit than the ad that was on there...again I know the realility

but for me this was the first time it really hit me...maybe it's

because I know Jay and Ryanne, I don't know...but...



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

<billcammack@...> wrote:

>

> I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't know

> anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them specifically,

but

> that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click on

your

> video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay people's

> salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

>

> It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for free

if

> you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an entire

> sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to ditch

> the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to make

> free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free boingboing

> videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

>

> I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :) and I

> agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me with

> overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come up, so

> as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE LOWER 3RD

> OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's the

> only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people are

in

> the dark the whole time.

>

> Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion, but

> like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art that

is

> poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the artist

> (content creator) intended.

>

> Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in the

first

> place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with boingboing)

>

> Bill Cammack

> http://billcammack.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> >

> > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing

boing

> > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's

a

> > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

> > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

> > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

> > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin

ad

> > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's

just

> > me...but.....

> >

> > Heath

> > http://batmangeek.com

> > http://heathparks.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > >

> > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

> > >

> > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing

for

> > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site

of

> > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > videobloggers

> > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> > evaded

> > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> > about

> > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

> > >

> > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us

over

> > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they

documented

> > in

> > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light

banner,

> > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing

Boing

> > tv

> > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left

the

> > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece

today."

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

Well, like I said, I agree with you entirely.  I was "shocked" enough

just reading the twitter or link here or whatever that informed me

that they had been over there AT ALL.  I thought they were in the

sticks somewhere making bread and not using plastic.  When I read the

link, I was like "THEY could have been caught up in it TOO? :O".



So, yeah, when I went to the video, it had extra import, gloom and

doom for me because at the time they recorded it, they still could

have gotten busted.  Ads, of course, are going to pull me out of that

feeling, so they're certainly unwanted... as far as the "art" of the

piece.



As far as what kind of ads they might have served on it, that's an

interesting point.  Unless boingboing does a consistently "gloom and

doom" category of videos, there's no reason for them to have

specifically targeted videos to specific videos.  Like, there's no

reason that their audience watching THIS video would have been

different from the audience that watches the rest of their videos,

whatever they're about.  So while I agree that the ads could have been

more in tune with the mood of the individual video, at this point, I

don't think it's feasible to tell an advertiser "We're going to do one

solemn video out of 100, maybe... so pay us to advertise your product

once in a blue moon".



Bill Cammack

http://billcammack.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@...> wrote:

>

> Oh indeed I do know that is the nature of the "biz" but I can't help

> but think, maybe an ad for not smoking or maybe a company that is

> doing "green" or social things, etc...maybe that would have been a

> better fit than the ad that was on there...again I know the realility

> but for me this was the first time it really hit me...maybe it's

> because I know Jay and Ryanne, I don't know...but...

>

> Heath

> http://batmangeek.com

> http://heathparks.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

> <billcammack@> wrote:

> >

> > I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't know

> > anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them specifically,

> but

> > that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click on

> your

> > video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay people's

> > salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

> >

> > It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for free

> if

> > you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an entire

> > sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to ditch

> > the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to make

> > free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free boingboing

> > videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

> >

> > I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :) and I

> > agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me with

> > overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come up, so

> > as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE LOWER 3RD

> > OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> > effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's the

> > only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people are

> in

> > the dark the whole time.

> >

> > Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion, but

> > like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art that

> is

> > poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the artist

> > (content creator) intended.

> >

> > Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in the

> first

> > place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with boingboing)

> >

> > Bill Cammack

> > http://billcammack.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing

> boing

> > > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's

> a

> > > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

> > > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

> > > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

> > > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin

> ad

> > > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's

> just

> > > me...but.....

> > >

> > > Heath

> > > http://batmangeek.com

> > > http://heathparks.com

> > >

> > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

> > > >

> > > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing

> for

> > > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site

> of

> > > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > > videobloggers

> > > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> > > evaded

> > > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> > > about

> > > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

> > > >

> > > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us

> over

> > > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they

> documented

> > > in

> > > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light

> banner,

> > > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing

> Boing

> > > tv

> > > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left

> the

> > > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece

> today."

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

I don't think they have to have different advertisers for different

moods.  Their advertiser just needs to provide maybe two or three

different styles of their advert.  And they don't even need to be

that different.



For instance, if the Crowdfire advert here had just been without that

ridiculous upbeat rock guitar riff, it would probably have been a lot

less jarring.  So for normal & fun BBtv pieces, they could use the

rock riff behind the voiceover, and for pieces like this - and there

are quite a few serious pieces, even just about China & Tibet, on

BBtv - they could use the advert without the music.



But my guess is that they'd think that this interfered with their

fun, upbeat brand, and that the integrity of this needed to be

maintained even if its juxtaposition with serious content made them

look like dicks.  As here.



Rupert

http://twittervlog.tv



On 26-Aug-08, at 10:20 AM, Bill Cammack wrote:



   So while I agree that the ads could have been

more in tune with the mood of the individual video, at this point, I

don't think it's feasible to tell an advertiser "We're going to do one

solemn video out of 100, maybe... so pay us to advertise your product

once in a blue moon".



Bill Cammack

http://billcammack.com









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's funny I didn't even notice the ad's DURING the interview just

the one's before and after....I was too distracked by the blonde to

notice the overlays..  ;)



Another thing that is funny for me, is that I have always been in

the "ad's arn't so bad" camp....I know it's still the model and for

the most part I don't mind them, I ingnore most of them actually...so

for me to say "ads are wrong here" is to me a bit funny in

itself....I really do think it's because I know Jay and Ryanne and

knowing what "could" have happened and to be honest what

could "still" happen....cause I am sure their names are on some list

now in China....



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

<billcammack@...> wrote:

>

> Well, like I said, I agree with you entirely.  I was "shocked"

enough

> just reading the twitter or link here or whatever that informed me

> that they had been over there AT ALL.  I thought they were in the

> sticks somewhere making bread and not using plastic.  When I read

the

> link, I was like "THEY could have been caught up in it TOO? :O".

>

> So, yeah, when I went to the video, it had extra import, gloom and

> doom for me because at the time they recorded it, they still could

> have gotten busted.  Ads, of course, are going to pull me out of

that

> feeling, so they're certainly unwanted... as far as the "art" of the

> piece.

>

> As far as what kind of ads they might have served on it, that's an

> interesting point.  Unless boingboing does a consistently "gloom and

> doom" category of videos, there's no reason for them to have

> specifically targeted videos to specific videos.  Like, there's no

> reason that their audience watching THIS video would have been

> different from the audience that watches the rest of their videos,

> whatever they're about.  So while I agree that the ads could have

been

> more in tune with the mood of the individual video, at this point, I

> don't think it's feasible to tell an advertiser "We're going to do

one

> solemn video out of 100, maybe... so pay us to advertise your

product

> once in a blue moon".

>

> Bill Cammack

> http://billcammack.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> >

> > Oh indeed I do know that is the nature of the "biz" but I can't

help

> > but think, maybe an ad for not smoking or maybe a company that is

> > doing "green" or social things, etc...maybe that would have been

a

> > better fit than the ad that was on there...again I know the

realility

> > but for me this was the first time it really hit me...maybe it's

> > because I know Jay and Ryanne, I don't know...but...

> >

> > Heath

> > http://batmangeek.com

> > http://heathparks.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

> > <billcammack@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't

know

> > > anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them

specifically,

> > but

> > > that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click

on

> > your

> > > video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay

people's

> > > salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

> > >

> > > It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for

free

> > if

> > > you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an

entire

> > > sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to

ditch

> > > the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to

make

> > > free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free

boingboing

> > > videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

> > >

> > > I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :)

and I

> > > agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me

with

> > > overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come

up, so

> > > as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE

LOWER 3RD

> > > OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> > > effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's

the

> > > only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people

are

> > in

> > > the dark the whole time.

> > >

> > > Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion,

but

> > > like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art

that

> > is

> > > poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the

artist

> > > (content creator) intended.

> > >

> > > Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in

the

> > first

> > > place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with

boingboing)

> > >

> > > Bill Cammack

> > > http://billcammack.com

> > >

> > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing

> > boing

> > > > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me

it's

> > a

> > > > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned

me

> > > > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people

being

> > > > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of

town

> > > > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat

rockin

> > ad

> > > > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > > > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe

it's

> > just

> > > > me...but.....

> > > >

> > > > Heath

> > > > http://batmangeek.com

> > > > http://heathparks.com

> > > >

> > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-

proti.html

> > > > >

> > > > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in

Beijing

> > for

> > > > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the

site

> > of

> > > > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > > > videobloggers

> > > > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art

installations

> > > > evaded

> > > > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing

time

> > > > about

> > > > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it

mattered.

> > > > >

> > > > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to

us

> > over

> > > > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they

> > documented

> > > > in

> > > > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light

> > banner,

> > > > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this

Boing

> > Boing

> > > > tv

> > > > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely

left

> > the

> > > > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece

> > today."

> > > > >

> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@...> wrote:

>

> It's funny I didn't even notice the ad's DURING the interview just

> the one's before and after....I was too distracked by the blonde to

> notice the overlays..  ;)



That was my fault for ASSUMING you meant mid-roll overlay ads.  I'm

not aware that boingboing even USES those.  I didn't mean to imply

that there were any overlay ads on the Jay/Ryanne video at all.



> Another thing that is funny for me, is that I have always been in

> the "ad's arn't so bad" camp....I know it's still the model and for

> the most part I don't mind them, I ingnore most of them actually...so

> for me to say "ads are wrong here" is to me a bit funny in

> itself....I really do think it's because I know Jay and Ryanne and

> knowing what "could" have happened and to be honest what

> could "still" happen....cause I am sure their names are on some list

> now in China....

>

> Heath

> http://batmangeek.com

> http://heathparks.com



That's the whole thing.  "Ads aren't so bad" because the content

people are watching has no depth to it.  This was a video done by

people that a lot of us have hung out with in person and understand

their mannerisms.  They were visibly "shook" in that video.  It was

compelling to watch and listen to them, ESPECIALLY since I didn't even

know they had gone over there, so I got to watch it in the context of

"They didn't know if they were going to get out of China clean, AND

they hadn't heard from Brian & Jeff for three days".  Just COMPELLING

is the word, and it amplifies the contrast against the advertisements.



As far as Rupert's suggestion of several versions of a commercial,

you're asking the company to deal with three different

music/dialogue/fx mixes (which is probably negligible for a couple of

seconds worth of commercial), and you're also asking for human

intervention when it comes to what version of the ad to run on which

video.  Most likely, they have an automated ad server and you're

talking about added expenses without related ROI.



I agree with the idea, as far as attempting to maintain the integrity

of the art, but like I said, it's not about the art.  It's about hits

and ad sales.  By the time you press play, they've already got you.



Bill Cammack

http://billcammack.com





> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

> <billcammack@> wrote:

> >

> > Well, like I said, I agree with you entirely.  I was "shocked"

> enough

> > just reading the twitter or link here or whatever that informed me

> > that they had been over there AT ALL.  I thought they were in the

> > sticks somewhere making bread and not using plastic.  When I read

> the

> > link, I was like "THEY could have been caught up in it TOO? :O".

> >

> > So, yeah, when I went to the video, it had extra import, gloom and

> > doom for me because at the time they recorded it, they still could

> > have gotten busted.  Ads, of course, are going to pull me out of

> that

> > feeling, so they're certainly unwanted... as far as the "art" of the

> > piece.

> >

> > As far as what kind of ads they might have served on it, that's an

> > interesting point.  Unless boingboing does a consistently "gloom and

> > doom" category of videos, there's no reason for them to have

> > specifically targeted videos to specific videos.  Like, there's no

> > reason that their audience watching THIS video would have been

> > different from the audience that watches the rest of their videos,

> > whatever they're about.  So while I agree that the ads could have

> been

> > more in tune with the mood of the individual video, at this point, I

> > don't think it's feasible to tell an advertiser "We're going to do

> one

> > solemn video out of 100, maybe... so pay us to advertise your

> product

> > once in a blue moon".

> >

> > Bill Cammack

> > http://billcammack.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Oh indeed I do know that is the nature of the "biz" but I can't

> help

> > > but think, maybe an ad for not smoking or maybe a company that is

> > > doing "green" or social things, etc...maybe that would have been

> a

> > > better fit than the ad that was on there...again I know the

> realility

> > > but for me this was the first time it really hit me...maybe it's

> > > because I know Jay and Ryanne, I don't know...but...

> > >

> > > Heath

> > > http://batmangeek.com

> > > http://heathparks.com

> > >

> > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack"

> > > <billcammack@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't

> know

> > > > anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them

> specifically,

> > > but

> > > > that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click

> on

> > > your

> > > > video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay

> people's

> > > > salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

> > > >

> > > > It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for

> free

> > > if

> > > > you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an

> entire

> > > > sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to

> ditch

> > > > the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to

> make

> > > > free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free

> boingboing

> > > > videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

> > > >

> > > > I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :)

> and I

> > > > agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me

> with

> > > > overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come

> up, so

> > > > as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE

> LOWER 3RD

> > > > OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> > > > effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's

> the

> > > > only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people

> are

> > > in

> > > > the dark the whole time.

> > > >

> > > > Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion,

> but

> > > > like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art

> that

> > > is

> > > > poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the

> artist

> > > > (content creator) intended.

> > > >

> > > > Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in

> the

> > > first

> > > > place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with

> boingboing)

> > > >

> > > > Bill Cammack

> > > > http://billcammack.com

> > > >

> > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@>

> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing

> > > boing

> > > > > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me

> it's

> > > a

> > > > > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned

> me

> > > > > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people

> being

> > > > > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of

> town

> > > > > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat

> rockin

> > > ad

> > > > > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > > > > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe

> it's

> > > just

> > > > > me...but.....

> > > > >

> > > > > Heath

> > > > > http://batmangeek.com

> > > > > http://heathparks.com

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-

> proti.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in

> Beijing

> > > for

> > > > > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the

> site

> > > of

> > > > > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > > > > videobloggers

> > > > > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art

> installations

> > > > > evaded

> > > > > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing

> time

> > > > > about

> > > > > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it

> mattered.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to

> us

> > > over

> > > > > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they

> > > documented

> > > > > in

> > > > > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light

> > > banner,

> > > > > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this

> Boing

> > > Boing

> > > > > tv

> > > > > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely

> left

> > > the

> > > > > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece

> > > today."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

I don't accept those excuses on their behalf. My point is not about

art, or they way the advert affects the way the viewer engages with

the interview.  I wouldn't expect them to give a damn about the

effect on the aesthetics of the video their ad is inserted into.



My point is about them not realising or caring how bad it makes them

look.  In this case, it's not an automatic ad server.   It's an

advert that's been edited in there by a human editor.  If they think

the human editor who's inserting their advert can't make a basic

judgement call about which of two versions they've supplied - low key

or upbeat - to insert into a low key or upbeat video, then they

assume the editor is an idiot, and why are they allowing their advert

to be included in that video at all?  That's not an argument that

stands up in this case.



And in this case, the inclusion of that version of the advert made

their product look cheap and shitty.  That's the point.  That's why

they're so stupid.  If they'd just given the editor a version without

the music - not a big deal, given the money spent - it would have

been fine.



But that's not the way they think - probably for all the reasons

you've given.  So they waste their money, instead of spending a tiny

amount more of their own time producing a slightly alternative

version.  Surely in the future, agencies will be smarter and wise up

to the control they have over the context in which their adverts are

displayed.  If it were me, I sure would.



Rupert

http://twittervlog.tv





On 26-Aug-08, at 1:57 PM, Bill Cammack wrote:



As far as Rupert's suggestion of several versions of a commercial,

you're asking the company to deal with three different

music/dialogue/fx mixes (which is probably negligible for a couple of

seconds worth of commercial), and you're also asking for human

intervention when it comes to what version of the ad to run on which

video. Most likely, they have an automated ad server and you're

talking about added expenses without related ROI.



I agree with the idea, as far as attempting to maintain the integrity

of the art, but like I said, it's not about the art. It's about hits

and ad sales. By the time you press play, they've already got you.



Bill Cammack

http://billcammack.com









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@...> wrote:

>

> I don't accept those excuses on their behalf. My point is not about

> art, or they way the advert affects the way the viewer engages with

> the interview.  I wouldn't expect them to give a damn about the

> effect on the aesthetics of the video their ad is inserted into.

>

> My point is about them not realising or caring how bad it makes them

> look.  In this case, it's not an automatic ad server.   It's an

> advert that's been edited in there by a human editor.  If they think

> the human editor who's inserting their advert can't make a basic

> judgement call about which of two versions they've supplied - low key

> or upbeat - to insert into a low key or upbeat video, then they

> assume the editor is an idiot, and why are they allowing their advert

> to be included in that video at all?  That's not an argument that

> stands up in this case.



I see what you're saying.  Agreed.  If they're using burned-in

advertisements, jacking up the flow of your show does make you look

like you don't know how to produce, or that there's no EP on the

project to veto poor decision-making.



> And in this case, the inclusion of that version of the advert made

> their product look cheap and shitty.  That's the point.  That's why

> they're so stupid.  If they'd just given the editor a version without

> the music - not a big deal, given the money spent - it would have

> been fine.

>

> But that's not the way they think - probably for all the reasons

> you've given.  So they waste their money, instead of spending a tiny

> amount more of their own time producing a slightly alternative

> version.  Surely in the future, agencies will be smarter and wise up

> to the control they have over the context in which their adverts are

> displayed.  If it were me, I sure would.

>

> Rupert

> http://twittervlog.tv



I would, too... for sure.  In the future, it will be different,

because there will be more options and outlets for the same material

so quality and immersion will make a difference in viewership and

revenue.  At this point, a lot of shows and now studios are "the only

game in town" so there's really no reason for them to devote any more

time, effort or resources into "the little things" that would make

people appreciate their productions more, rather than turn them off.



I still like your idea of versions of ads and applying the appropriate

mood to videos that are somber or comedic or whatever.... ESPECIALLY

if they're being burned in by human "editors".





> On 26-Aug-08, at 1:57 PM, Bill Cammack wrote:

>

> As far as Rupert's suggestion of several versions of a commercial,

> you're asking the company to deal with three different

> music/dialogue/fx mixes (which is probably negligible for a couple of

> seconds worth of commercial), and you're also asking for human

> intervention when it comes to what version of the ad to run on which

> video. Most likely, they have an automated ad server and you're

> talking about added expenses without related ROI.

>

> I agree with the idea, as far as attempting to maintain the integrity

> of the art, but like I said, it's not about the art. It's about hits

> and ad sales. By the time you press play, they've already got you.

>

> Bill Cammack

> http://billcammack.com

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

As a big news story, that video will be viewed by countless people.

Advertisers are wise to attach to it.



- Mary



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack" <billcammack@...>

wrote:

>

> I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't know

> anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them specifically, but

> that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click on your

> video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay people's

> salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

>

> It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for free if

> you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an entire

> sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to ditch

> the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to make

> free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free boingboing

> videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

>

> I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :) and I

> agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me with

> overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come up, so

> as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE LOWER 3RD

> OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's the

> only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people are in

> the dark the whole time.

>

> Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion, but

> like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art that is

> poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the artist

> (content creator) intended.

>

> Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in the first

> place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with boingboing)

>

> Bill Cammack

> http://billcammack.com

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> >

> > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing boing

> > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me it's a

> > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned me

> > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people being

> > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of town

> > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat rockin ad

> > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's just

> > me...but.....

> >

> > Heath

> > http://batmangeek.com

> > http://heathparks.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > >

> > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

> > >

> > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing for

> > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the site of

> > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > videobloggers

> > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> > evaded

> > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> > about

> > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

> > >

> > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us over

> > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they documented

> > in

> > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light banner,

> > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing Boing

> > tv

> > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left the

> > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece today."

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

>

It's not about them having ads, it was just the type of ad...for me

it broke the flow, it seemed intrusive....but I understand that ads

are what makes the world go round.....



Heath

http://batmangeek.com

http://heathparks.com



--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "mcmpress" <mcmpress@...> wrote:

>

> As a big news story, that video will be viewed by countless people.

> Advertisers are wise to attach to it.

>

> - Mary

>

> --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Cammack" <billcammack@>

> wrote:

> >

> > I hear what you're saying, but bills have to be paid.  I don't

know

> > anything about boingboing, so I can't speak for them

specifically, but

> > that's the game that's being played here.  Get people to click on

your

> > video, get people to click on your ads, get revenue to pay

people's

> > salaries.  There's nothing else going on here.

> >

> > It's like when you make a Ning community. You can make it for

free if

> > you leave the google ads on your site and lose the use of an

entire

> > sidebar... or you can pay Ning to make it worth their while to

ditch

> > the ads and let you use the sidebar.  Lots of people choose to

make

> > free Ning sites and lots of people choose to watch free boingboing

> > videos with whatever ads you saw on them.

> >

> > I know you know this already and were just stating facts, :) and I

> > agree with you for the most part.  The thing that SUCKS for me

with

> > overlay ads is that you don't know when they're going to come up,

so

> > as the content creator, when you go to font someone in THE LOWER

3RD

> > OF THE SCREEN, some bullshit ad comes up over your title and the

> > effect you were creating as art is completely lost.  If that's the

> > only time you mention someone's name/title in the piece, people

are in

> > the dark the whole time.

> >

> > Also, like you said, overlay ads of ANY kind destroy immersion,

but

> > like I said, it's about making your money back, not making art

that is

> > poignant and has the desired effect on the viewer that the artist

> > (content creator) intended.

> >

> > Removing ads would defeat the purpose of doing the videos in the

first

> > place. (Again, having nothing specifically to do with boingboing)

> >

> > Bill Cammack

> > http://billcammack.com

> >

> > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Heath" <heathparks@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I am glad jay and ryanne are back safe, I am glad that boing

boing

> > > and others are trying to report things....but....and for me

it's a

> > > big but....the ads on the video piece from boing boing turned

me

> > > off....I mean, here are jay and ryanne talking about people

being

> > > detained and how that they are basicly trying to get out of

town

> > > before they themselves are detained and I get some upbeat

rockin ad

> > > for, heck I don't even know but it just seemed sooo out of

> > > place....it detracted me from the overall message...maybe it's

just

> > > me...but.....

> > >

> > > Heath

> > > http://batmangeek.com

> > > http://heathparks.com

> > >

> > > --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Rupert <rupert@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > http://tv.boingboing.net/2008/08/25/boing-boing-tv-proti.html

> > > >

> > > > "Last week, eight American citizens were detained in Beijing

for

> > > > participating in pro-Tibetan sovereignty protests near the

site of

> > > > the 2008 Olympics, with Students for a Free Tibet. Two

> > > videobloggers

> > > > who documented those protest and guerrilla art installations

> > > evaded

> > > > detention, and spoke to Boing Boing TV on Friday Beijing time

> > > about

> > > > why they were there, what they witnessed, and why it mattered.

> > > >

> > > > "Jay Dedman and Ryanne Hodson of Ryanishungry.com spoke to us

over

> > > > Skype from a hostel in Beijing. One of the actions they

documented

> > > in

> > > > photo and video was the hanging of an "LED throwies" light

banner,

> > > > below, which read "FREE TIBET." We agreed to hold this Boing

Boing

> > > tv

> > > > episode until after we received word that they'd safely left

the

> > > > country. They have returned home, so I am posting the piece

today."

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > > >

> > >

> >

>