David Jones: "Yes, Youtube seems to fit my niche market very well."

Hi Dave:
...I wasn't aiming to convince you otherwise. If YT is working for you under
the model you've described, particular to your market, then perhaps it is
the best fit for the content you offer.

David Jones: "IMO Youtube is essential and not an option for any blogger
starting out."

Again, agreed. I do not espouse negating use of YouTube, only that its
limitations with respect to (contact) list management are less desirable
than other methods. For example; a YT subscriber base cannot be narrowly
defined to suit a particular campaign, or generate more focused interest
particular to a segment of users.

David Jones: "I, and I'm sure others be interested to hear exactly how
you've made your living on the web for the last 9 years. I could eventually
do the same thing I'm sure, even for my little niche market, all I need is
10 times my current audience and I could probably consider doing it full
time."

Ok, but can your market sustain "10 times" your current audience?

While marketing is an extremely broad subject, slightly outside the scope of
this topic... In short; I've never chosen an area without knowing the
demographics and market aspects/sentiments, like the back of my hand. I don't
select a target market without knowing (absolutely) what the realistic
potential market penetration is, irrespective competition.

For TailTrex.tv as a CONDENSED example: there are 50 million U.S. dog owners
(gross market); approximately 30 million (sub-market) of these engage
outdoor activities with their dog(s), at least once per year; 17 million
(narrow-market #1) engage outdoor activities with a dog(s), on multiple
occasions per year; 9 million of these (narrow-market #2) utilize public
lands (parks, recreation areas, forest lands, etc.) often; of the 9 million
about 1.5 million routinely buy products and/or services to enhance outdoor
activities with a dog(s); and, roughly 500,000 of the latter spend about
$475 (or more) per year to facilitate their outdoor dog interests. (There
are additional details, but hopefully you get the point.)

So while it would seem our target market are the 9 million dog owners who
use public lands, the reality is only a fraction of the 1.5 million are
motivated enough (based on other criteria) to find what TailTrex.tv offers
of CONSISTENT interest. So our sub-target market are roughly 350,000
hard-core dog owners who rigidly fit our model. However, REALISTICALLY, the
potential consistent market penetration is only about 200,000. Our TARGET
MARKET is then about 750k motivated dog owners, in order to achieve the
averaged 200k penetration goal.

Of course I'm generalizing things a great deal, but my point is without
knowing one's market extremely well products and services (and in the case
of a vlog, CONTENT) cannot be crafted to suit that market for revenue
generation.

Granted, it's my take that most folk on this list don't approach marketing
as sophisticated as others (although I could be wrong). And there is nothing
wrong with that, per se. Except when one desires to make a solid living
online, knowing one's market (intimately) is the foundation upon which
everything else SHOULD be built.

Hoping, guessing, shooting in the dark is not the path to making money
online. Intimately understanding one's market is. And the best way to become
more in-tune with a captive market (wants, desires, trends, etc.) is through
a CONTROLLED contact list.

...YouTube, cannot facilitate that deal. It's not built to do so, thus
trying to make YT fit a sustainable revenue stream is problematic. :D

Mark Villaseñor,
http://www.TailTrex.tv
Canine Adventures For Charity - sm
http://www.SOAR508.org

Glad this was helpful Dave. Be sure to let us know your schedule so some
tweetups can be arranged!

For well-paid professional speakers, travel time is often part of the
contract. No doubt this varies by industry.

I stand by the most important piece: be happy with whatever you negotiate.
:-)

(Hi Jim!)

Aloha,

Rox

On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 3:29 PM, David Jones <david.jones@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Roxanne Darling
<okekai@...<okekai%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > Can you stay a little extra time there and book any other work or
> vacation?
>
> That's the plan!
> Flights from Australia are expensive, so I'll make the most of it with
> an extended holiday. Doesn't cost them anything to book my flight two
> weeks earlier ;-)
>
>
> > That might influence things. I often try to get another client or two in
> > situations like this, and spread the travel costs among them.
>
> It certainly does. probably no chance of getting another paying client
> while there, but I might be able to get some blogging opportunities in
> at least.
> If I had done this sort of thing a hundred times before and it was
> real grind as a day-to-day job, there is no way I would travel 50
> hours for 25 hours paid work, that would be crazy. But I know I'm
> getting a) a free trip to the US that don't come that often, and b) an
> awesome opportunity to further my blogging/industry profile.
> And it's all fresh and exciting of course, so I'm doing the gig
> whatever it takes.
> It's no charity case though, they are getting my industry profile,
> blog audience, and talent in exchange, so they need to pay for that of
> course. And they want to discuss further ongoing blogging work too
> that I can do from home.
>
>
> > It is not unusual for people to charge a percentage of their normal day
> rate
> > for long distance travel. So you could also ask for that directly. Yes
> you
> > are not working directly for them but you are giving up other work time
> for
> > them, them being the client.
>
> Yes, that's the thing, I am giving up my full time work and other
> private stuff to do this gig.
> So I'll at least mention it to them that the travel time will be
> almost double the actual work hours and try and work it out. It was
> supposed to be a much longer gig, so they have changed the job
> requirements somewhat.
>
>
> > Can I assume you are getting all travel costs reimbursed as well?
>
> Yes, airfare, plush accommodation, meals, and I'll ask for a car too.
>
>
> > Then I consider the client - their size and budget, how much I want the
> job,
> > how much will it help me and my portfolio, what can I get done on the
> plane,
> > etc. It may be that you can book some "storyboarding" type time and
> actually
> > do that on the plane to get compensated for your work and your time,
> without
> > having to bill directly for "travel time."
>
> I think it's probably a bit rich that I book them for travel time
> directly, so I might ask for some extra prep/editing/production time,
> as that seems to be a bit tight in those 25hours they have suggested.
>
>
> > Hope this helps - as you can see there are a lot of options therefore no
> > wrong answers. Just do what will make you feel good about going and do a
> > superb job for the client! It's in their best interest for you to be
> fresh,
> > happy, and inspired.
>
> Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.
> I've gotten a few other responses from various people and it generally
> seems that travel time is just "part of doing business" and usually
> doesn't get charged for.
>
> Regards
> Dave.
>
>
>



--
Roxanne Darling
"o ke kai" means "of the sea" in hawaiian
808-384-5554
Video --> http://www.beachwalks.tv
Company -- > http://www.barefeetstudios.com
Twitter--> http://www.twitter.com/roxannedarling


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Mark Villaseñor
<videoblogyahoogroup@...> wrote:
>
> David Jones: "Yes, Youtube seems to fit my niche market very well."
>
> Hi Dave:
> ...I wasn't aiming to convince you otherwise. If YT is working for you under
> the model you've described, particular to your market, then perhaps it is
> the best fit for the content you offer.
>
> David Jones: "IMO Youtube is essential and not an option for any blogger
> starting out."
>
> Again, agreed. I do not espouse negating use of YouTube, only that its
> limitations with respect to (contact) list management are less desirable
> than other methods. For example; a YT subscriber base cannot be narrowly
> defined to suit a particular campaign, or generate more focused interest
> particular to a segment of users.
>
> David Jones: "I, and I'm sure others be interested to hear exactly how
>
> you've made your living on the web for the last 9 years. I could eventually
> do the same thing I'm sure, even for my little niche market, all I need is
> 10 times my current audience and I could probably consider doing it full
> time."
>
> Ok, but can your market sustain "10 times" your current audience?

No real idea.
I didn't think I'd get 5 viewers let alone the 5000 or so I have now.
Is 50,000 regular viewers possible?
With some hindsight of how it's grown in the first year, and the
markets I'm tapping into, yes, I think that's possible.
It may not happen, or happen for a very long time, but it's not impossible.
I'm growing by around 10-15 viewers a day consistently on Youtube
alone. Not a lot perhaps, but that adds up to at least say 5000 new
viewers a year total at current rates.
My Youtube total views are around 3000 per day on average, and it all
seems to be somewhat self perpetuating growth. The more varied content
I put up the more people find me through searching, the bigger my
reputation grows etc etc.

I seem to appeal to the Hacker & Maker crowd as well as the
traditional electronics hobbyists and engineers I originally aimed it
at.
Looking at Make magazine on Youtube as an example
(http://www.youtube.com/user/makemagazine), they have almost 50
million views and around 140,000 subscribers.
They also produce similar (but lesser quality) content to mine
occasionally as part of their appeal to electronics people.
I recon I can appeal to a good chunk of that audience alone.

How many electronics engineers, hobbyists, and people who tinker with
electronics are there in the word? I have no idea, but it's got to be
in the 10's of millions. And I'm pretty much the only video show in
town :->

But really, it doesn't matter, because I do it for fun, not profit. If
it tuns into something I can do full time to pay the bills then that
would be fantastic, but I have no illusions that will actually happen.
I like to think I'm ultimately working toward it with everything I do
though.


> While marketing is an extremely broad subject, slightly outside the scope of
> this topic... In short; I've never chosen an area without knowing the
> demographics and market aspects/sentiments, like the back of my hand. I don't
> select a target market without knowing (absolutely) what the realistic
> potential market penetration is, irrespective competition.

Perhaps naively, I thought that most video bloggers blogged about
something that interests them and they are passionate about first, and
then perhaps thought about marketing later...?

> For TailTrex.tv as a CONDENSED example: there are 50 million U.S. dog owners
> (gross market); approximately 30 million (sub-market) of these engage
> outdoor activities with their dog(s), at least once per year; 17 million
> (narrow-market #1) engage outdoor activities with a dog(s), on multiple
> occasions per year; 9 million of these (narrow-market #2) utilize public
> lands (parks, recreation areas, forest lands, etc.) often; of the 9 million
> about 1.5 million routinely buy products and/or services to enhance outdoor
> activities with a dog(s); and, roughly 500,000 of the latter spend about
> $475 (or more) per year to facilitate their outdoor dog interests. (There
> are additional details, but hopefully you get the point.)
>
> So while it would seem our target market are the 9 million dog owners who
> use public lands, the reality is only a fraction of the 1.5 million are
> motivated enough (based on other criteria) to find what TailTrex.tv offers
> of CONSISTENT interest. So our sub-target market are roughly 350,000
> hard-core dog owners who rigidly fit our model. However, REALISTICALLY, the
> potential consistent market penetration is only about 200,000. Our TARGET
> MARKET is then about 750k motivated dog owners, in order to achieve the
> averaged 200k penetration goal.
>
> Of course I'm generalizing things a great deal, but my point is without
> knowing one's market extremely well products and services (and in the case
> of a vlog, CONTENT) cannot be crafted to suit that market for revenue
> generation.

Sure. But many times you simply can't know what people want until you
actually put content out there and try.

What about those countless video bloggers with hundreds of thousands
or millions of regular viewers? I bet very few of them started with
any sort of plan!
And why someone who just rants on about say nothing in particular can
get so many subscribers seem to baffle the mind!, it's certainly not
because they understood what their audience wanted from day 1.

But I guess the differentiator is whether you go into it thinking like
a business from day one, or you just get into it for fun and get
lucky. I like the latter, the former has too much risk :->

> Granted, it's my take that most folk on this list don't approach marketing
> as sophisticated as others (although I could be wrong). And there is nothing
> wrong with that, per se. Except when one desires to make a solid living
> online, knowing one's market (intimately) is the foundation upon which
> everything else SHOULD be built.
>
> Hoping, guessing, shooting in the dark is not the path to making money
> online. Intimately understanding one's market is. And the best way to become
> more in-tune with a captive market (wants, desires, trends, etc.) is through
> a CONTROLLED contact list.

That's not my experience.
Content is king, and a contact list really has little to with that.
I don't need to contact my viewers to ask what they want, they
*contact me* and tell me daily!
But as always, YMMV.

> ...YouTube, cannot facilitate that deal. It's not built to do so, thus
> trying to make YT fit a sustainable revenue stream is problematic. :D

Tell that to the many bloggers who make full time livings from Youtube.
As far as I know, there are very few video bloggers who make money
outside of Youtube, at lest in comparison.
Anyone know of any who have started from scratch and built a large
audience without using Youtube? I'd be curious to see how.
I know it's possible, but it must be so much harder than when you ride
the Youtube train.

Regards
Dave.

All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
innovators at the time.

How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?

Schlomo Rabinowitz
http://schlomo.tv
http://hatfactory.net
AIM:schlomochat


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
> certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
> innovators at the time.
> How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?

Good question. I know we were switching the Vloggercon info from
peter's server awhile ago. All that info should be archived till time
inmemorial. Let me see what happened.

Jay

David Jones: "...it doesn't matter, because I do it for fun, not profit. If
it tuns into something I can do full time to pay the bills then that would
be fantastic, but I have no illusions that will actually happen. I like to
think I'm ultimately working toward it with everything I do though."

Hey Dave:
Foremost please know I'm not aiming to be adversarial when discussing this
topic, just informative as I can through frankness. That said; your
sentiment above is a common one and somewhat contradictory. No problem
believing so, mind you, only don't be surprised when you never make a living
online full time. I hope you do, but the reality is... Hope don't float.

You're fooling yourself by thinking; "I'm ultimately working toward it."
That's not the way REAL, sustainable, money is made online or off.

David Jones: "Perhaps naively, I thought that most video bloggers blogged
about something that interests them and they are passionate about first, and
then perhaps thought about marketing later...?"

That's not naive; passion is essential to any undertaking. Just because one
views their area of vlogging (or web) interest with profit motives in mind,
does not make the endeavor less worthwhile -- only potentially more
profitable.

I absolutely LOVE what we've done with dogs; I unquestionably feel
passionately about working them; talking about them, sharing my narrow area
of canid expertise; and, would do it all for free if a Web Fairy paid the
bills. Although until the latter flutters down from on-high and does its
thing? I'm doin what works (more times than not) to generate MONEY,
sustainable bucks, and I'll do it enthusiastically.

David Jones: "What about those countless video bloggers with hundreds of
thousands or millions of regular viewers? I bet very few of them started
with any sort of plan!"

And I'd bet you're right! But if a coherent plan isn't engaged at some
point, they simply aren't making diddly to the degree they could. Planning
doesn't assure success, its no guarantee of anything, but it sure makes the
ride a whole lot easier to deal with when bumps get in the way. And the
bumps ALWAYS get in the way. Question is; does one go over or under them?

David Jones: "...I guess the differentiator is whether you go into it
thinking like a business from day one, or you just get into it for fun..."

Hmm, yeah, well. Please point me to the Internets law that says thinking on
business terms from Jump Street, cannot equate to fun. I've looked
everywhere but just can't seem to find it. ;)

Seriously, Dave, take my word for it. I'm having an absolute blast
developing TailTrex-TV, and win lose or draw; I'll continue on that hoot
well after launch! I've not only met some great people (like this list for
example), but have seen better sides of human nature in the process. So
thinking on business terms needn't be dry and dull, less exciting or
unfulfilling, but may actually ADD to the fun. It all depends on where one's
head is at, perspective being key.

David Jones: "Content is king, and a contact list really has little to with
that."

I'll yield to you as the authority of your own experience. Good luck with
that.

David Jones: "As far as I know, there are very few video bloggers who make
money
outside of Youtube, at lest in comparison."

I can see why, especially if your notions about web marketing are widespread
as seems evident. But then, one has to decide if they follow the herd or
take a different path -- particularly ones proven time and again, albeit
less traveled.

David Jones: "Anyone know of any who have started from scratch and built a
large audience without using Youtube? I'd be curious to see how."

Ok, but your presupposing I'm espousing that YouTube SHOULDN'T be utilized.
That's not what I've stated, Dave, not by a long shot. The vast difference
is; one using YT as a crutch, rather than a tool among many.

It appears to me (and I could be mistaken) you're looking at YT as some kind
of surefire conduit to success, as though it's the only game in town worth
exploiting. And if that be the case, head-on, knock yourself out. Maybe
SOMEDAY you'll be one of those with multi-million YT views? (And I sincerely
wish you will be.) As for me, MAYBE never got results; but that just might
be me, a-lil tainted by reality.

At long last, Dave, I appreciate your sentiments. But I must say that it
APPEARS (seems like) your notions about web marketing are skewed by what you
THINK is happening, not by what actually is based on solid evidence. That's
not meant as a put-down, just an observation based on your remarks.

There are plenty of legitimate Web Marketing coaches ("Gurus" if that works
better) I could recommend (through private mail), if you're of a mind to
cast aside what you THINK you know; and, truly discover what is obvious you
don't. Only YOU control that choice, Dave; only YOU control the relative
outcomes.

...I'll give you the last word.

All The Best,
Mark Villaseñor,
http://www.TailTrex.tv
Canine Adventures For Charity - sm
http://www.SOAR508.org

Awesome

Marcus offered to host it, if needed.


Schlomo Rabinowitz
http://schlomo.tv
http://hatfactory.net
AIM:schlomochat


On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:

>
>
> > All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
> > certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
> > innovators at the time.
> > How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?
>
> Good question. I know we were switching the Vloggercon info from
> peter's server awhile ago. All that info should be archived till time
> inmemorial. Let me see what happened.
>
> Jay
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i have the site/database archived, just need to point the url to the right
place.

working on it.

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:31 PM, schlomo rabinowitz <schlomo@...>wrote:

>
>
> All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
> certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
> innovators at the time.
>
> How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?
>
> Schlomo Rabinowitz
> http://schlomo.tv
> http://hatfactory.net
> AIM:schlomochat
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

just in case and if needed.... i'll offer videobloggers.org server (where
Michael Verdi is hosting his drupal project for videobloggers) to archive
vloggercon.

sull

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:18 PM, ryanne hodson <ryanne.hodson@...>wrote:

> i have the site/database archived, just need to point the url to the right
> place.
>
> working on it.
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 1:31 PM, schlomo rabinowitz <schlomo@...
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
> > certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
> > innovators at the time.
> >
> > How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?
> >
> > Schlomo Rabinowitz
> > http://schlomo.tv
> > http://hatfactory.net
> > AIM:schlomochat
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> just in case and if needed.... i'll offer videobloggers.org server (where
> Michael Verdi is hosting his drupal project for videobloggers) to archive
> vloggercon.

Hosting etc isnt the problem. Peter just needed to clean off his
server and we just never completed the transfer. Should be done
tonight.

Jay

I see vloggercon here:

http://vloggercon.blogspot.com/

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, schlomo rabinowitz <schlomo@...> wrote:
>
> All that archived information is now gone... What a great snapshot into a
> certain time in online video, with vids of some of the best creators and
> innovators at the time.
>
> How come it now goes to Ryan Is Hungry?
>
> Schlomo Rabinowitz
> http://schlomo.tv
> http://hatfactory.net
> AIM:schlomochat
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Mark Villaseñor
<videoblogyahoogroup@...> wrote:
> Hey Dave:
> Foremost please know I'm not aiming to be adversarial when discussing this
> topic, just informative as I can through frankness. That said; your
> sentiment above is a common one and somewhat contradictory. No problem
> believing so, mind you, only don't be surprised when you never make a living
> online full time. I hope you do, but the reality is... Hope don't float.

I know, but considering that no plan, however well thought out and
backed with experience is guaranteed to work in a new venture much
more than one that's not, particularly when it comes to video blogging
I think. You are at the mercy of the viewers and what value they
perceive in your work and approach. So hope is pretty much all you've
got when you start out. You produce content and ultimately hope people
like it.

> You're fooling yourself by thinking; "I'm ultimately working toward it."

No, I'm not. I can see the results of all my efforts daily, and I can
see it growing daily.

> That's not the way REAL, sustainable, money is made online or off.

Ok, so please tell us how. You still haven't told us how you actually
make a full time living online. I'm willing to bet it's not just video
blogging...
Please tell us your story...

> That's not naive; passion is essential to any undertaking. Just because one
> views their area of vlogging (or web) interest with profit motives in mind,
> does not make the endeavor less worthwhile -- only potentially more
> profitable.

I agree.
But you still haven't told us how having that controlled contact list
helps with making that elusive profit....

> I absolutely LOVE what we've done with dogs; I unquestionably feel
> passionately about working them; talking about them, sharing my narrow area
> of canid expertise; and, would do it all for free if a Web Fairy paid the
> bills. Although until the latter flutters down from on-high and does its
> thing? I'm doin what works (more times than not) to generate MONEY,
> sustainable bucks, and I'll do it enthusiastically.

Am I reading into this correctly that you are already getting paid in
some way to produce and launch TailTrex? Or is it just something you
hope will make you money?
If it's something you are SURE will make you money based on past
experience, then, well, good luck with that!

> And I'd bet you're right! But if a coherent plan isn't engaged at some
> point, they simply aren't making diddly to the degree they could. Planning
> doesn't assure success, its no guarantee of anything, but it sure makes the
> ride a whole lot easier to deal with when bumps get in the way. And the
> bumps ALWAYS get in the way. Question is; does one go over or under them?

You just keep producing content...
There aren't too many bumps in video blogging, it's pretty much a one
way individual broadcast medium. So you just keep on video blogging,
listen to your audience, and keep giving them what they want. Maybe
try something new here and there and see how it goes.
A bit of planning does help in the initial concept and setup, channel
naming and branding etc though, as it can be harder to change when you
have an established audience.

> David Jones: "...I guess the differentiator is whether you go into it
> thinking like a business from day one, or you just get into it for fun..."
>
> Hmm, yeah, well. Please point me to the Internets law that says thinking on
> business terms from Jump Street, cannot equate to fun. I've looked
> everywhere but just can't seem to find it. ;)

There isn't of course, if that's what floats your boat, go for it. I
just hope no one mortgages the house in anticipation of a venture
paying off because they read some gurus guide to web marketing!

> Seriously, Dave, take my word for it. I'm having an absolute blast
> developing TailTrex-TV, and win lose or draw; I'll continue on that hoot
> well after launch! I've not only met some great people (like this list for
> example), but have seen better sides of human nature in the process. So
> thinking on business terms needn't be dry and dull, less exciting or
> unfulfilling, but may actually ADD to the fun. It all depends on where one's
> head is at, perspective being key.

Sure, and good luck with the venture.
I'm starting to think about my blog seriously too. I've got a paid
commercial gig coming up in October in the US, I've got half a dozen
of the worlds major equipment manufacturers on board sending me stuff
and taking me seriously. I got a personal call from the CEO of a 5
billion dollar corporation. I've a got reasonably large growing
audience, and I'm going to Australia's top drama school to hopefully
learn some tricks and have some fun. All within the first year without
putting any thought into it or really taking it seriously!

I'm also starting a new video blog venture that I'm taking a bit more
seriously from day one given my new found experience with what's
possible. But it's still of course done for fun because I can't see
any way I could possibly plan how or if it will take off, so I'll just
take my best shot, put some content out there and hope it works.

> David Jones: "Content is king, and a contact list really has little to with
> that."
>
> I'll yield to you as the authority of your own experience. Good luck with
> that.

Once again, please explain this whole contact list thing and why it is
so vitally important to making money online video blogging. I don't
want to miss out on any extra revenue!
But try as I might, I can't see any possible extra benefit of having a
controlled contact list of every one of my viewers. If I want to reach
them then I'll post a blog and they will all see it within days. I can
already mass contact subscribers via Youtube and my blog site and
Twitter if need be.

> David Jones: "As far as I know, there are very few video bloggers who make
> money
> outside of Youtube, at lest in comparison."
>
> I can see why, especially if your notions about web marketing are widespread
> as seems evident. But then, one has to decide if they follow the herd or
> take a different path -- particularly ones proven time and again, albeit
> less traveled.

Please tell us about these time and again proven paths...
Once again, I don't want to be missing something I should be trying!

> David Jones: "Anyone know of any who have started from scratch and built a
> large audience without using Youtube? I'd be curious to see how."
>
> Ok, but your presupposing I'm espousing that YouTube SHOULDN'T be utilized.
> That's not what I've stated, Dave, not by a long shot. The vast difference
> is; one using YT as a crutch, rather than a tool among many.

Indeed. That's why I have a Wordpress Blog, an RSS feed, an iTunes
Podcast, a BBS forum, and Twitter.
I'd suggest others do the same and not just rely upon Youtube.

But when around half of your audience comes from and watches via
Youtube, it's real hard to not take seriously!

> It appears to me (and I could be mistaken) you're looking at YT as some kind
> of surefire conduit to success, as though it's the only game in town worth
> exploiting.

Not at all. But you or anyone else has yet to show a video blogger who
has grown to success without making use of Youtube.
I'm sure there are, but they don't seem to reveal themselves all that often!
Remember, Youtube is now over TWO BILLION views a day!
It's not the only game in town, but it sure is the biggest, by orders
of magnitude.

In Australia alone, there are currently 19 Youtube Partners who have
over 100,000 views last month. (I'm at number 29 with a bullet :-D ).
Not bad for a country that's a drop in the bucket in terms of Youtube
views.

> And if that be the case, head-on, knock yourself out. Maybe
> SOMEDAY you'll be one of those with multi-million YT views? (And I sincerely
> wish you will be.) As for me, MAYBE never got results; but that just might
> be me, a-lil tainted by reality.

I will never get a million plus subscribers with the EEVblog, it's
just too niche a market, and it has little chance of going viral with
the general public. I know that and am under no illusions.
But millions of views, sure, that's guaranteed. I've already got
almost 600,000 views on Youtube alone, and consistently around 3000 a
day. So I'll hit a million views in around 133 days at the current
rate!
Considering that I thought I'd never reach four digits when I started,
I'm pretty stoked :-D

> At long last, Dave, I appreciate your sentiments. But I must say that it
> APPEARS (seems like) your notions about web marketing are skewed by what you
> THINK is happening, not by what actually is based on solid evidence. That's
> not meant as a put-down, just an observation based on your remarks.

Again, please enlighten us, show us this "solid evidence".
How do you successfully market a video blog?, I'd love to know the secrets!
You've so far provided no insight into anything apart from tell us
that a controlled contact list is essential to success, and that there
are are other avenues apart from Youtube.
How are you making your money? How are you making a full time living
from it? Really, that's why we are all here, to learn from those who
have been there and done it.

> There are plenty of legitimate Web Marketing coaches ("Gurus" if that works
> better) I could recommend (through private mail), if you're of a mind to
> cast aside what you THINK you know; and, truly discover what is obvious you
> don't. Only YOU control that choice, Dave; only YOU control the relative
> outcomes.

If you have book or other recommendations, then I'm all ears. I like
to think I'm open minded and intelligent enough to pick out what's
relevant and what's not for me and my my circumstances.
But if you want to recommend some marketing guru I have to pay good
money to to tell me how to market my blog they know nothing about,
using some generic guidelines that has worked for some people in an
entirely different industry, then no thanks, I won't waste my time or
money.
There are no surefire ways to success, ever. Nor are there any gurus
who can tell you how to do it right. Everyone's blog content is
different, everyone audience is different, there is no universal
solution.

But we are all here to share stories and advice, so come on everyone,
tell us how you have succeeded (or not) at video blogging and what
advice you can give.

I hope this promotes a lot of discussion!

Regards
Dave.

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:
>> just in case and if needed.... i'll offer videobloggers.org server (where
>> Michael Verdi is hosting his drupal project for videobloggers) to archive
>> vloggercon.
>
> Hosting etc isnt the problem. Peter just needed to clean off his
> server and we just never completed the transfer. Should be done
> tonight.

Looks like the site wont be up tonight just because of time crunch. Soon.

Jay

Website: http://vimeo.com/awards

FIRST-EVER VIMEO® FESTIVAL & AWARDS CELEBRATES CREATIVE ONLINE VIDEO AND OPENS
FOR AWARDS SUBMISSIONS

Leading Industry Luminaries and Award-Winning Creators to Judge Submissions;
Winner of `Best Online Video' Award to Receive $25,000 Grant to Produce New Work

NEW YORK, June 3, 2010 – Vimeo®, an operating business of IAC [NASDAQ: IACI],
opened the submissions window today for the Vimeo Awards, which honors creative
and original online videos and the people that create them.

Starting today, people around the world can submit their videos for
consideration across nine judged categories. The judges will choose the Best
Online Video from the top videos in each category, and that winner will receive
a $25,000 grant to produce new work. Videos must have debuted online within the
past two years to be considered. Vimeo will announce the winners during an
awards ceremony at the close of its two-day festival on October 8-9 in New York
City. Additionally, Vimeo will preview some of the finalists' work at a
screening event in Amsterdam in September.

--
Bill
http://billcammack.com/

> But we are all here to share stories and advice, so come on everyone,
> tell us how you have succeeded (or not) at video blogging and what
> advice you can give.
>
> I hope this promotes a lot of discussion!
>
> Regards
> Dave.
>

I have found that reading your correspondences has been enlightening.  Each of
us measures our own success - but I, like you, am always willing to learn new
tricks to bring me closer to what I define success as -  for myself and my video
efforts.

I was dragged into making video by a pal that I trust.  I was trying to use any
cheap/easy methods to promote my book.  All advice I saw was "make your vids
about something you are passionate about" and I followed that, not knowing where
it would lead.  At the time (18 months ago) I thought YouTube was for
skateboarding kids and garage bands.

Well, I was wrong :)

I can't say that I have had a goal other than just having fun, but lately I've
been invited to partner on 4 of my videos and, unbelievably (for me), I really,
really enjoy making the videos.

At this late stage, I am now starting over in my thinking, and trying to plan
ahead instead of just having an "aha" moment and throwing a video up on whatever
subject just crossed my mind.

I continue to learn more about technique, editing, scripting and tools and I
will continue to try an improve the quality of my videos, but I am very much
interested in learning more from others about how they are planning ahead for
whatever success they are seeking, by whatever definition they want to use.

Thanks very much to everyone who contributes here,

Marguerita
Marguerita McManus
Crazy Shortcut Quilts Book
http://www.crazyshortcutquilts.com/margueritas-blog/
My Quilting Videos - http://tinyurl.com/r6xxp4

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Jay dedman <jay.dedman@...> wrote:

> Looks like the site wont be up tonight just because of time crunch. Soon.
>

It's working now (thanks Ryanne!) - http://www.vloggercon.com

- Verdi

--
Training for a triathlon and raising money for The Leukemia & Lymphoma Society.
http://training.michaelverdi.com

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 6:42 AM, Marguerita <marguerita.mcmanus@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > But we are all here to share stories and advice, so come on everyone,
> > tell us how you have succeeded (or not) at video blogging and what
> > advice you can give.
> >
> > I hope this promotes a lot of discussion!
> >
> > Regards
> > Dave.
> >
>
> I have found that reading your correspondences has been enlightening. Each of
us measures our own success - but I, like you, am always willing to learn new
tricks to bring me closer to what I define success as - for myself and my video
efforts.
>
> I was dragged into making video by a pal that I trust. I was trying to use any
cheap/easy methods to promote my book. All advice I saw was "make your vids
about something you are passionate about" and I followed that, not knowing where
it would lead. At the time (18 months ago) I thought YouTube was for
skateboarding kids and garage bands.
>
> Well, I was wrong :)
>
> I can't say that I have had a goal other than just having fun, but lately I've
been invited to partner on 4 of my videos and, unbelievably (for me), I really,
really enjoy making the videos.
>
> At this late stage, I am now starting over in my thinking, and trying to plan
ahead instead of just having an "aha" moment and throwing a video up on whatever
subject just crossed my mind.
>
> I continue to learn more about technique, editing, scripting and tools and I
will continue to try an improve the quality of my videos, but I am very much
interested in learning more from others about how they are planning ahead for
whatever success they are seeking, by whatever definition they want to use.
>
> Thanks very much to everyone who contributes here,
>
> Marguerita
> Marguerita McManus
> Crazy Shortcut Quilts Book
> http://www.crazyshortcutquilts.com/margueritas-blog/
> My Quilting Videos - http://tinyurl.com/r6xxp4

Hi Marguerita
Your linked Youtube channel username does not work seem to work:
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyshortcutquilts/

Quilting seems to get a tons of hits on Youtube, so look like a nice
little niche market there!

Regards
Dave.

> It's working now (thanks Ryanne!) - http://www.vloggercon.com

I was just checking out what we were all talking about in 2006:
Schedule: http://www.vloggercon.com/?page_id=3
Video Archive: http://www.vloggercon.com/?page_id=208

And even farther back in 2005 when very few people even knew what
videoblogging was:
http://vloggercon.blogspot.com/2005/02/vloggercon-05-conference-sessions.html

Very cool to see how many of these people have evolved in their work.

Jay

Thank you Richard and Mark for your answers - you both had great approaches and
tips!  I also found this clip by Bill Myers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VkY6v3Ll4  that may help me.

I am going to give it a whirl this weekend!

Thank you, Marguerita

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Marguerita" <marguerita.mcmanus@...>
wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I bought a second camera (used, cheap on Craigslist) to help me make better
videos and I just tried editing two simultaneously filmed small clips.

I received this post via a network I'm part of and thought that this group
with our video online video interests would find it most interesting.

http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/steve_rosenbaum/95420849.html

Happy Friday

/julian

--
Julian Seery Gude
julian@...
{561} 584-9088 or {skype} exceler8
LOCALNa8ion.com, BrandTrampoline.com and exceler8.com
On the web: http://www.google.com/profiles/JulianSeeryGude


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julian Seery Gude: "...thought that this group with our video online video
interests would find it most interesting."

Hey Julian, yes very interesting stuff; thanks for the heads-up. Google's
purchase of Episodic (http://www.episodic.com) is especially intriguing to
me (and I'm sure others), although it is not accepting new content providers
at this time. However, I'm informed when Google gets closer to broadly
launching Google TV that will change.

...We are living in exciting (Video) times, methinks. :D

Mark Villaseñor,
http://www.TailTrex.tv
Canine Adventures For Charity - sm
http://www.SOAR508.org

My buddy Scott Rafer is involved (found thanks to his FB)

http://blog.handroll.tv/post/664049495/unveiling-a-new-project-handroll-tv

From the blog post:
Handroll.TV <http://www.handroll.tv/> is data management for utterly public
video. In the whole Jobs vs.
Flash<http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/>debate, the
back-end implications are largely being ignored. HTML5
video <http://blog.handroll.tv/html5> makes it very tough to hide anything —
media files, player code, usage, video description
metadata<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata>,
social gestures, editing layers, and a hundred other savory morsels. That
data feast will all be floating around and available to slice, dice, layer,
and roll. Bridging from data availability to great new applications will
require open services in which that data is gathered and laid out for use.
Handroll.TV is working to be one of those services.

So what do you guys think?

--
------------------------------------------------
Sean W. Bohan
Founder
collectivecontext
http://www.thecollectivecontext.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marguerita"


> Thank you Richard and Mark for your answers - you both had great
> approaches and tips!  I also found this clip by Bill Myers
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VkY6v3Ll4  that may help me.
>
> I am going to give it a whirl this weekend!


Good luck. I checked out that clip. I've never done it that way, but it
certainly would be better than actually cutting out portions of the upper
tracks because it is a *lot* easier to restore something if you decided that
you've made a mistake .. or you could have done it better.

However, that clip is only *after* you have synced the tracks (which he does
not show)

Now that I have Vegas Pro I can use it's multi-cam edit mode which is even
easier (not part of Vegas Movie Studio)

Richard Amirault
N1JDU
http://bostonfandom.org

When I first started on Vegas it took me ages to discover that 'S' for
split clip  allowed one to cut between separate tracks! I was stuck!

After that I've never looked back.

The latest Vegas Pros allow combining multiple video tracks into one
track that one can run through switching live.

Prior to that it was just a question of lining the clips up on separte
tracks using sound as described previously, and then using 'S' to
split the top clip and them dragging the edges to get the desired cut.

A cheat I remeber using to preview both clips at once was to open the
lower clip in the pan crop window

HTH

joly
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast
WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com
  http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com
   Secretary - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
---------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Julian!

I think it was Bill Gates who first envisioned the idea of web-connected TV,
writing about it in his book "The Road Ahead". He predicted that people will be
able to chat with TV show hosts through their connected TV's. Microsoft went
ahead and implemented WebTV back in 1998 or so. However, it was too early for an
average consumer to catch on, and plus high speed internet wasn't there yet. The
project flopped.

As time goes by, more and more I realize that coming up with the idea first
isn't as important as executing it when the time is right. Looks like Google
feels that pulse now deciding to give it a whirl with Google TV. This will be
great for independent show creators who make their episodic shows for the online
audience. Roku had a chance to make their platform universal like that, bringing
both the creators and the viewers. But I guess it would be harder for them to
compete in this arena now that Google TV is coming to town. Roku's approach to
creating an online show isn't user-friendly for the show creators, making them
hire programmers or tech gurus to get the show on the air.

Sincerely,

Renat Zarbailov of Innomind.org

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Julian Seery Gude <julian@...> wrote:
>
> I received this post via a network I'm part of and thought that this group
> with our video online video interests would find it most interesting.
>
> http://www.jackmyers.com/commentary/steve_rosenbaum/95420849.html
>
> Happy Friday
>
> /julian
>
> --
> Julian Seery Gude
> julian@...
> {561} 584-9088 or {skype} exceler8
> LOCALNa8ion.com, BrandTrampoline.com and exceler8.com
> On the web: http://www.google.com/profiles/JulianSeeryGude
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Could be a good opportunity for folks to meet up and connect in real time. All
we have to do is show up. http://www.vimeo.com/awards/about

Seems like it has all of the prerequisite activities such as screening, parties,
panels and how-to's.

There is a Vimeo contest with $25,000 grant to the winner. One of the judges is
David Lynch and another is DJ Spooky. Whatever floats your boat is probably
going to be accommodated.

The festival/awards is in October 2010 so that might be enough time to figure
out if you can afford the trip or hook-up lodging.

FYI,

Gena
http://createvideonotebook.blogspot.com

Hi,

Can someone tell me the meaning of: "Flattened" movie or video file?
I'm looking into different ways to compress for the web from iMovie
and occasionally I see this term.

Thanx
Tom Dolan
tomjdolan.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Tom Dolan <tomjdolan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can someone tell me the meaning of: "Flattened" movie or video file?
> I'm looking into different ways to compress for the web from iMovie
> and occasionally I see this term.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=flattened+video+file

Which links to stuff like this:
http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/qa/qtmtb/qtmtb47.html

Dave.

Flattening the movie interleaves data through the file structure. The aim
(from memory) is to have key data up front so the player gets it first and
doesn't have to wait for it to arrive. I don't know what data this is but
imagine it would be things like:
duration
frame rate
gamma
volume
metadata (who, when, etc)

Actually, that's what fast start does. I think flattening only interleaves
the data so that it is 'packed' into the file format in the most efficient
way for playback.

For fast start the object is to let the video be able to begin playing
before all the media has arrived (aka fast start). This was (and is) an
innovation as in the early days of video, unless you were using RTSP, the
entire media file would have to be delivered before it could play. With long
and large files this was a nuisance.

It might sound obvious, but it wasn't at the time. (Imagine being able to
start reading a very large Word doc in Word, that was online, before all the
pages had arrived, that's what flattening - and fast start - help to
achieve).


an appropriate closing
Adrian Miles
School of Media and Communication
Program Director B.Comm Honours
vogmae.net.au


On 7 June 2010 10:21, Tom Dolan <tomjdolan@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi,
>
> Can someone tell me the meaning of: "Flattened" movie or video file?
> I'm looking into different ways to compress for the web from iMovie
> and occasionally I see this term.
>
> Thanx
> Tom Dolan
> tomjdolan.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanx for taking the time to explain that Adrian, I guess I'll select
'quick start' when I convert. I use Quick Time Pro to convert from
iMovie to a QT movie which I then upload to YouTube, blip and a few
others. My files have been very large, even after following the advice
of a very popular vid-blogger. I don't like the resolution that he
apparently finds acceptable. But thru trial & error just the other
day, I discovered a combo of selections that reduced my file size to
about 1/3 size with ok acceptable rez.

Anyway, I was happy about that. Again, Thanx. Some folks on this site
seem to have an elevated opinion re: their opinion and so I don't
engage the group often. You've been considerate.

Thank you,
Tom Dolan


On Jun 6, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Adrian Miles wrote:

> Flattening the movie interleaves data through the file structure.
> The aim
> (from memory) is to have key data up front so the player gets it
> first and
> doesn't have to wait for it to arrive. I don't know what data this
> is but
> imagine it would be things like:
> duration
> frame rate
> gamma
> volume
> metadata (who, when, etc)
>
> Actually, that's what fast start does. I think flattening only
> interleaves
> the data so that it is 'packed' into the file format in the most
> efficient
> way for playback.
>
> For fast start the object is to let the video be able to begin playing
> before all the media has arrived (aka fast start). This was (and is)
> an
> innovation as in the early days of video, unless you were using
> RTSP, the
> entire media file would have to be delivered before it could play.
> With long
> and large files this was a nuisance.
>
> It might sound obvious, but it wasn't at the time. (Imagine being
> able to
> start reading a very large Word doc in Word, that was online, before
> all the
> pages had arrived, that's what flattening - and fast start - help to
> achieve).
>
>
> an appropriate closing
> Adrian Miles
> School of Media and Communication
> Program Director B.Comm Honours
> vogmae.net.au
>
>
> On 7 June 2010 10:21, Tom Dolan <tomjdolan@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can someone tell me the meaning of: "Flattened" movie or video file?
>> I'm looking into different ways to compress for the web from iMovie
>> and occasionally I see this term.
>>
>> Thanx
>> Tom Dolan
>> tomjdolan.com
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Tom Dolan
tomjdolan.com