Water Energy and the Environment



It is rare to pick up a newspaper where the related issues of energy and
the global environment are not on the front page.  It is likely that
historians will see 2008 – 2009 as point of exploding interest in
environmental and energy issues.
Energy, Water and Environmental Issues
We need water to generate energy and energy to deliver water and both
have ramifications related to the big environmental issue of the day
– climate change.  Both water and energy are limited but we focus on
energy without thinking through the implications of the various sources
of energy on water demand.  We focus on the effects of energy on global
warming; but, for example, ignore the water required to produce the
different types of energy.

Without energy, we cannot power the industrial plants, operate the
computers, grow the crops, and transport the goods or many other things
required by modern civilization.  However, without water people die.

We consume massive quantities of water to create energy and use massive
amounts of energy to supply water.  The two greatest users of water in
the U.S. are agriculture and power plants.  The California Aqueduct that
transports water across two mountain ranges to California's coastal
cities is the largest consumer of electrical power in the state.

As the world becomes more affluent, demands for energy and water are
increasing faster than ever.  We cannot build more power plants without
needing more water and we need more power to supply water to our growing
cities.  We need new water storage and transmission infrastructure to
accommodate the demands for new sources of power.  If I may paraphrase
an old song, "Water and energy go together like horseless carriage.
You can't have one without the other."
Peak Water vs. Peak Energy
Water and energy are the two most fundamental ingredients of modern
civilization and both may be reaching their peak.  We read of how we are
running out of cheap oil, however, few voice concerns about peak water.
Peak oil has some serious consequences, but peak water will cause much
more human suffering.  After air, there is no element more important
than water.  We cannot live more than five days without it.

By the year 2050, half of the world's population is expected to
suffer from severe water shortages. Nearly a billion people currently
lack access to safe water, and 2.5 billion people lack a way to dispose
of their human wastes safely.  More than two dozen diseases, including
cholera, typhoid, hookworm, and schistosomiasis, are triggered by the
lack of pure water thereby creating some of the world's most serious
public health problem.  Diarrheal dehydration caused by these diseases
kills more children than AIDS, malaria and TB combined.
Water is also one of the world's most pressing problems, even more
pressing than global warming.  According to the World health
Organization, 2.4 billion people live in highly water stressed areas.
Primary solutions are to: ·        Transport over great distances or
·        Clean or desalinize nearby dirty or salty water Both of
which solutions require large amounts of energy.   Developing countries
with the necessary resources, such as China and the Middle East
petroleum producers, are taking major steps to address these problems.
China is building pipelines to move water from wet south to dry north.
Saudi Arabia and other Mideast oil producers diverting oil from world
market in order to provide the energy necessary for desalination
projects to provide water for an expanding population.  However, many
nations lack the financial resources to address the problems.  One of
the most disturbing factors is that Women and children across the
developing world withstand the worst of the crisis. The problem is not
limited to the developing world.  Rapid growth of cities such as San
Diego, Phoenix, and Las Vegas, which are dependent on finite resources
of the Colorado River, face major water problems.  Most major California
cities depend on water transported great distances.  Water rationing
occurs even in normally wet areas such as last year in Atlanta.  Austin,
Texas surrounded by lakes has seen water rationing.   We are rapidly
reaching the point where many will not have the water to support our
current life style.  The world is headed towards water bankruptcy by
2050 warns a report from the Davos World Economic Forum.  We need to
stop thinking of water as an entitlement.  Water falls free out of the
sky so why should we pay for it.  We do not consider what it costs to
gather, store, and distribute.  We do not consider the cost of
proceeding and disposing of the residual waste and we do not recognize
that it is a limited commodity like fossil fuels. The Interrelationship
of Energy and Water We must recognize that the problems of increasing
demand for both energy and water are interrelated.  Water restrictions
are limiting our ability to meet our energy needs while Increasing
electricity prices are curtaining efforts to supply more clean water. A
good illustration of this paradox is Lake Mead.  It is now routinely 100
feet below historic levels.  If it falls another 50 feet, it would
curtain power production at Hoover dam.  Gregory McCabe of the
Geological Survey thinks a rise in temperature of 1.5 degrees from
global warming will compromise the ability of the Colorado River to
supply water needs of Las Vegas and six other cities, as well as
shutting down Hoover's turbines.  The Scripps Institute even thinks
Lake Mead could become dry by 2021. We do not seem to realize that the
increasing demands for one of these commodities will cripple our use of
the other.   Ramifications of Energy Policy on Water The U.S. faces
tough challenges from the adoption of the Energy Independence and
Security Act of 2007.  While we all believe, our security could be
improved with less dependence on imported crude oil and that carbon
emissions could be improved using alternative fuels, most of the
proposed solutions do not take into consideration the water requirements
of those solutions. Diverting capital from development of oil and gas
reserves in the U.S. to alternative energy sources may not be a good
economic decision as the ramifications of that policy rarely take into
consideration of the water cost.  Any decision to switch from gasoline
engines to bio-fuels or electric cars is a decision to increase
dramatically the demands on domestic water.  Increasing demands for
clean energy and bio-fuels can have crippling effects on water. Thermal
power plants are hogs, however, the water requirements of combined
gas/steam plants pale in comparison to coal and nuclear plants. Amounts
of water in gallons for one Megawatt of power ·        Gas/Steam
– 7,400-20,000 ·        Coal and Oil – 21,000-50,000 ·
Nuclear – 25,000-60,000   Even solar power is a huge water consumer
because of the amount of water consumed in the process to produce the
silicon panels used to produce solar power.  The two most popular
scenarios for replacing gasoline appear to be the electric plug-in
vehicles and bio-fuels.  Both have merit, but both are more water
intensive than the gasoline vehicle.  Whether the proponents realize it
or not, the decision to switch from gasoline to bio-fuels or electric
vehicles is a strategic decision to use dramatically larger amounts of
water.  Before doing so, we need to be certain we have the water.
According to studies done at the University of Texas in Austin, an
electric or electric hybrid consumes up to three times as much water per
mile as a gasoline engine, and Bio-fuels are worse. Recent analyses
indicate that the entire production cycle, from the growing of irrigated
crops to the pumping of biofuel into your car can consume up to 4000
times as much water to go 100 miles as the gasoline car.  Citizens in
the Illinois towns of Champlain and Urbana recently opposed a local
ethanol plant's request to with draw two million gallons a day, or
730 million gallons a year, from the local aquifer to produce 100
million gallons of ethanol a year. Developing a Coherent Plan for
Energy, Water and the Environment The rising tension between energy and
water is troubling, because our energy plans seem to disregard the water
issue.  The public has become more sensitive to the problems and risk of
peak oil, and some of the ramifications of energy policy on potential
climate change.  Public policy levers and market forces have been
deployed to find answers for peak oil and the need to minimize the
impact of energy policy on potential climate change.  At the same time,
we are approaching an era of peak water- the end to cheap water- either
without the public and the Washington policy makers grasping that fact,
or without the fact grasping their imagination.  Water is ultimately
more important than political correctness because it is critical to
life. Water, energy and the environment are three interrelated issue
that need a coordinated long range planning effort.  It is difficult to
get political figures to focus on long-range plans, as Long range
planning for them is the next election.  Rising oil prices, security
issues and environmental concerns have been the drivers to develop an
energy policy.  The main reason for our nonchalance is indifference to
water the fact that water remains absurdly cheap relative to value.
While we are a long way from understanding the impact of
industrialization on global warming, it is clear that it will complicate
an already dire water situation.  Development experts point out that
inadequate water and sanitation undermine development efforts in much of
the world.


Wayne Patterson

CEO Atreides Capital



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Water Industry Colleagues

As fellow practitioners interested in non-revenue water and leakage I thought
you would be interested to hear news of another upcoming conference - the Global
Leakage Summit - being held on 27-28 January 2010 at The Grand Connaught Rooms,
in London.  I am again helping London Business Conferences with the programme
topics and speakers.  As always, the programme is structured to reflect what
delegates want to hear - based on a thorough analysis of delegate research
carried out by London Business Conferences.

The programme always reflects the current mood of the industry,and this year
there is a big emphasis on needing to know about innovation and new
technologies.  So the theme for 2010 is:



'Comparing Results On The Application Of Evolving Methodologies & Emerging
Technologies For Water Leakage Reduction'.



The January 2010 Summit is the fourth Summit since 2006 - and the Summits have
become more and more popular with delegates, attracting a wide audience of
utility managers, consultants, contractors and equipment suppliers. They have
set a benchmark for:



_ High quality presentations on leakage management

_ Knowledgeable and experienced high-level speakers

_ Dissemination of the current 'hot topics' and innovative methodologies

_ Reaching a worldwide audience of water utility practitioners



This year the theme of the pre-conference workshop on 26th January is 'Advanced
Pressure Management - Principles an Practice'.  For the first time there will
also be a post-conference workshop, on 29 January: Modelling Techniques for
Detecting Leakage Hotspots and Reducing Carbon Footprint'.



More information on the sponsors, exhibitors, conference and workshop programmes
and speakers can be downloaded at: www.global-leakage-summit-2010.com, where you
can also download the Summit brochure pdf and registration form.



There are generous discounts for practitioners from low income countries,
students and academics! I look forward to welcoming some of you to the 2010
Global Leakage Summit!



Best regards



Malcolm



Malcolm Farley

Conference Director - Global Leakage Summit

London Business Conferences


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Emily

   Using sewage effluent in cooling towers was not defensible in any project i
reviewed, all proposals were based on false premises and/or mistruths..

Many questions need to be answered in your situation.
   A few of these:

1 - Have your officials explained why it would be appropriate to use sewage
effluent instead of clean water, from aquifers or stored rainfall runoff?
   I'd like to see their rationale for this because none that I've seen withstood
close scrutiny.

2 - If they cited high cost as a factor have they explained why rainwater would
be too expensive?

3 - If they cited disposal of sewage as a benefit then have they shown that the
ton or more of complex chemical compounds carried in each day will be extracted
before it is used, and that this will be disposed of safely and inexpensively?

4 - Have they explained why, beside "tradition", they require centralized sewage
collection/treatment instead of requiring that each homesite treat its
wastewater with a septic tank/leachfield system?

5 -  Has any official or concerned citizen publicly illustrated why what will be
a win-win situation for the cooling tower proponents may be a lose-lose sitation
for the public?

In summary:
   Have these officials presented you and your neighbors with a
complete, clearly illustrated picture of how your rainwater is
managed so that you are aware of the comparative costs of providing
it instead of sewage effluent to the cooling towers?

   If your annual rainfall is 24 inches then each acre will produce
enough water for a day's use in the cooling towers.  Your planners
need only guide the runoff from 365 acres, 1/2 square mile, to
storage.  If this is not being done then you'd best find out why
because competent officials eliminate flooding and provide ample
cheap clean water for all uses by guiding most rainfall to surface or
aquifer storage.

   Whenever proposed facilities will be expensive or potentially hazardous a
close examination of the entire water management system of the affected
community is in order.  In most communities I've visited these had basic flaws
in need of correction so that the water supply  would be plentiful, clean and
cheap.

   It may be that you and other concerned citizens should explore alternatives to
the project rather than debating its features.  Too often public servants and
private consultants succeed in distracting attention from this first and most
important step in evaluating the need for and value of a new service - process -
facility.

Jim Marple


- - - - - Original Message - - - - -

Date: 11/06/2009 03:09 PM
From: "Emily Monosson" <emonosson@...>;
Subject: [WaterForum] using treated sewage for cooling power

plants?
To: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
Hi. Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage
tmt water for cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass
plant here that plans to use 600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt
water a day (not sure of the amounts) for cooling.
There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
(pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam
that will be released via the cooling process. The plant will be in a
residential area.

Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water when
released as steam?
Any cases where this has been considered a problem?

Thanks,

Emily

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14 DAYS TO GO ONLY for INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE cum EXHIBITION on WATER !!!

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Time Series and Forecasting -- New Course from Practical Stats
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mr Unnikrishnan,
 
I have never done this calculation.
 
Can you tell me how it is done
 
regards
 
K.Vaidyanathan

--- On Wed, 18/11/09, Unni Krishnan <ukp1087@...> wrote:


From: Unni Krishnan <ukp1087@...>
Subject: [WaterForum] Diesel Range Organics computation
To: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 18 November, 2009, 10:11 PM


 



Hai Friends,

I am facing a problem in computation of Diesel Range Organics from Hazardous
Waste. We have a standard of about 30 compunds each about 10 ppm, My doubt
is during calculation can we take this standard as 10 ppm or as 300 ppm (30
X 10), or we have to calculate the quantity of individual compunds
seperately and then find the sum.

Help from the experts in this matter is Highly Appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

Regards

Unnikrishnan. P

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









       The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
http://in.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi!

I have recently come across a book "WATER AND THE LAWS IN INDIA" by Ramaswamy R
Iyer  which is complete resource book on Water Mangement and the Laws pertaining
to it.The in-depth chapters in this compendium, written by luminaries from
various fields, pertain to issues on water and proceed to a discussion of the
legal questions that arise. This volume thus straddles two domains, viz., (i)
water-resource policy, management, conservation, conflict-resolution, etc., and
(ii) water law. The book also briefly raises and explores the case for a
constitutional declaration on water and an overarching national water law.

Incase you are interested in ordering the copies of the same, please revert back
to me on this email id.

Hope this helps!

Regards





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hai Friends,

I am facing a problem in computation of Diesel Range Organics from Hazardous
Waste. We have a standard of about 30 compunds each about 10 ppm, My doubt
is during calculation can we take this standard as 10 ppm or as 300 ppm (30
X 10), or we have to calculate the quantity of individual compunds
seperately and then find the sum.

Help from the experts in this matter is Highly Appreciated.

Thanks in Advance

Regards

Unnikrishnan.P


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am interested in analyzing national legislations relating to water management.

Doeas anyone have information or references of existing databases or
publications on laws and regulations pertaining to water management?(Either
general or specific)

Come to paradise - we need a level 3 operator in Saipan, MP in tropical pacific.
1 - 3 MGD and 1 - 4.3 MGD activated sludge plants. Surface aeration and fine
bubble diffusion - Both plants slated for re-hab.

Check it out on Google earth - Agingan Point plant is on Southwest corner of
Island - do a web search on Sadog Tasi WWTP - It is often referenced in
diffusion zone work for NPDES permitting

send resume to: BRM5985@... - Bruce Megarr

Kitchen and Laundry — simple practices that save a lot of water:

a) Keep drinking water in the refrigerator instead of letting the faucet run
until the water is cool. b) Wash fruits and vegetables in a basin. Use a
vegetable brush. c) Do not use water to defrost frozen foods; thaw in the
refrigerator overnight. d) Scrape, rather than rinse, dishes before loading into
the dishwasher; wash only full loads. e) Add food waste to your compost pile
instead of using the garbage disposal. f) Wash only full loads of laundry. Use
the appropriate water level and load size selection on the washing machine.

Landscape Irrigation:

a) Detect and repair any leaks in the irrigation system. b) Use properly treated
wastewater for irrigation where available. c) Water the lawn or garden during
the coolest part of the day (early morning is best). Do not water on windy days.
d) Water trees and shrubs, which have deep root systems, longer and less
frequently than shallow-rooted plants that require smaller amounts of water more
often. e) Set sprinklers to water the lawn or garden only – not the street or
sidewalk. f) Use soaker hoses or trickle irrigation systems for trees and
shrubs. g) Install moisture sensors on sprinkler systems. h) Use mulch around
shrubs and garden plants to reduce evaporation from the soil surface and cut
down on weed growth. i) Remove thatch and aerate turf to encourage movement of
water to the root zone. j) Raise your lawn mower cutting height – longer grass
blades help shade each other, reduce evaporation, and inhibit weed growth. k)
Minimize or eliminate
  fertilizing, which promotes new growth needing additional watering. l) When
outdoor use of city or well water is restricted, use the water from the air
conditioning condenser, dehumidifier, bath, or sink on plants or the garden.
Don’t use water that contains bleach, automatic-dishwashing detergent or
fabric softener.

Other Outdoor Suggestions:

a) Sweep driveways, sidewalks and steps rather than hosing off. b) Wash the car
with water from a bucket, or consider using a commercial car wash that recycles
water. c) When using a hose, control the flow with an automatic shut-off nozzle.
e) Avoid purchasing recreational water toys which require a constant stream of
water.
 Thanks & Regards
Pravesh Jain
9993788969
Milan Realties
Indore - India


       Yahoo! India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in.yahoo.com/trynew

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The amount of virus and bacterial loading will depend on the method of
treatment.  Bacterial or viral contamination of cooling water even from
potable water supplies is a potential problems.  In Washington State, we
have specific standards for reuse water, which is dependent on the use
it is being put to, the most common being as an alternative source of
water for landscaping, sportsfields and golf courses.
In the case of use for cooling, unless the water is used in a closed
loop, cooling towers would tend to distribute bacteria and viruses
present into the air, as anyone who has seen a cooling tower operate has
seen the large plumes of steam going up into the air.
The only way that I see that this wouldn't be a concern at all is if the
treated wastewater is either used in a closed loop, or the process it is
used in would heat and maintain the heat of the cooling water long
enough to kill bacteria and viruses of concern (human pathogens), prior
to the evaporation cycle.

Regards,

Greg

Posted by: "Boris Araujo" aqalabs@...

<mailto:aqalabs@...?Subject=%20Re%3Ausing%20treated%20sewage%20for%20cooli\
ng%20power%20plants%3F>

             aqalabs <http://profiles.yahoo.com/aqalabs>


             Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:37 pm (PST)





     I don't handle a personal real case to refer now; but be seriously
     aware that cooling water in power plants always involve the
     cooling tower.
     the drops of water and evaporation at high rate, take the cooling
     water to the environmet sorrounding the power plant.
     Bacteria is a sensitive concern. If the water is domestic sewage
     after biological digestion, any hazardous chemical will be
     involved; but high concentration of microorganisms is for sure be
     present.
     Too many bacteria will be flying around.
     The treatment that the suppier is proposing you MUST assure the
     complete safe biological hazard.

     BORIS ARAUJO

     ________________________________
     De: Emily Monosson <emonosson@...
     <mailto:emonosson%40verizon.net>>
     Para: waterforum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:waterforum%40yahoogroups.com>
     Enviado: vie, noviembre 6, 2009 4:04:45 PM
     Asunto: [WaterForum] using treated sewage for cooling power plants?

          Hi. Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage
     tmt water for cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass
     plant here that plans to use 600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt
     water a day (not sure of the amounts) for cooling.

     There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
     (pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam
     that will be released via the cooling process. The plant will be
     in a residential area.

     Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
     Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water
     when released as steam?
     Any cases where this has been considered a problem?

     Thanks,

     Emily

     Emily Monosson, PhD
     Environmental Research and Writing
     Montague MA
     413-367-0052
     www.theneighborhood toxicologist. blogspot. com
     www.sciencemoms. wordpress. com
     www.eoearth. org

Check out the web site for the West Basin Water Reclaimation District
in Los Angles. http://www.westbasin.org/

They are doing multiple different kinds of reclaimed water from
secondarily treated sewage.

For cooling tower blowdown, they are taking secondarily (biologically)
treated sewage effluent and running it through media filters followed
by a Nitrification/Denitrification step to remove ammonia. Finally it
is chlorinated prior to use in refinery cooling towers.

Pat
Patrick Stanford
Coviana, Inc.
(310) 322-4205
(310) 994-8970 mobile
(310) 919-2954 fax
pat@...



On Nov 8, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Boris Araujo wrote:

> I don't handle a personal real case to refer now; but be seriously
> aware that cooling water in power plants always involve the cooling
> tower.
> the drops of water and evaporation at high rate, take the cooling
> water to the environmet sorrounding the power plant.
> Bacteria is a sensitive concern. If the water is domestic sewage
> after biological digestion, any hazardous chemical will be involved;
> but high concentration of microorganisms is for sure be present.
> Too many bacteria will be flying around.
> The treatment that the suppier is proposing you MUST assure the
> complete safe biological hazard.
>
> BORIS ARAUJO
>
> ________________________________
> De: Emily Monosson <emonosson@...>
> Para: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
> Enviado: vie, noviembre 6, 2009 4:04:45 PM
> Asunto: [WaterForum] using treated sewage for cooling power plants?
>
> Â
> Hi. Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage
> tmt water for cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass
> plant here that plans to use 600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt
> water a day (not sure of the amounts) for cooling.
>
> There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
> (pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam
> that will be released via the cooling process. The plant will be in
> a residential area.
>
> Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
> Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water when
> released as steam?
> Any cases where this has been considered a problem?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Emily
>
> Emily Monosson, PhD
> Environmental Research and Writing
> Montague MA
> 413-367-0052
> www.theneighborhood toxicologist. blogspot. com
> www.sciencemoms. wordpress. com
> www.eoearth. org
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> __________________________________________________________
> ¡Obtén la mejor experiencia en la web!
> Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8.
> http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=e1
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't handle a personal real case to refer now; but be seriously aware that
cooling water in power plants always involve the cooling tower.
the drops of water and evaporation at high rate, take the cooling water to the
environmet sorrounding the power plant.
Bacteria is a sensitive concern. If the water is domestic sewage after
biological digestion, any hazardous chemical will be involved; but high
concentration of microorganisms is for sure be present.
Too many bacteria will be flying around.
The treatment that the suppier is proposing you MUST assure the complete safe
biological hazard.

BORIS ARAUJO




________________________________
De: Emily Monosson <emonosson@...>
Para: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: vie, noviembre 6, 2009 4:04:45 PM
Asunto: [WaterForum] using treated sewage for cooling power plants?

 
Hi. Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage tmt water for
cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass plant here that plans to use
600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt water a day (not sure of the amounts) for
cooling.

There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
(pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam that will be
released via the cooling process. The plant will be in a residential area.

Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water when released as
steam?
Any cases where this has been considered a problem?

Thanks,

Emily

Emily Monosson, PhD
Environmental Research and Writing
Montague MA
413-367-0052
www.theneighborhood toxicologist. blogspot. com
www.sciencemoms. wordpress. com
www.eoearth. org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________

¡Obtén la mejor experiencia en la web!
Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=e1


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
¡Obtén la mejor experiencia en la web!
Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8.
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=e1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul

I'm in a learning process with every matter I discuss here, expect to still be
when angels swing low in a sweet chariot to take me home or I'm assigned a
specific flame to keep fed in the alternative destination.

Pat has frequently "focused on the person" in past comments without commenting
to the water management modes under discussion. using negative personal comments
that did not relate to water or related matters I discussed. You see only
attempts by Stewart and I to illuminate the impropriety of invoking endangered
species laws rather than flaws in the concept or planning of a proposed
facility.

In my narrow view centralized collection and treatment of sewage is no longer an
appropriate planning mode, it represents an outdated approach to managing human
wastes.  When geology or climate does not permit cost-effective onsite treatment
of wastes removed from homes by water then a wide variety of alternatives such
as incineration, irradiation and composting should be examined, not just
expanding a centralized system that adds to the tax burden of existing homesites
while also adding to contamination of river waters that often supply drinking
water to downstream residents..

The construction of a municipal treatment plant is generally contrary to the
public's best interests and should be opposed on this basis by presenting
complete and accurate information about the costs/benefits of alternatives to
it.  Misuse of endangered species laws to oppose such construction is a
short-sighted approach that will ultimately do damage to these laws by
antagonizing the public that sees them improperly applied.

   I occasionally provide gratuitous opinion re the apparent level of knowledge
and/or motivation of those who object to elements of the watershed-based
comprehensive planning I advocate, but only if they do not even attempt to
address the issue, to rebut my facts and figures, or to point out flaws in my
reasoning.

   My primary aim is to present data and conclusions provided by public servants
and private professionals who prefer to avoid retribution for speaking out. 
When I finally have "all the answers" I suspect I'll need a really special
Internet server to post them here, one that can only be imagined at this point
in time.

Jim Marple

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Kay" [ursa@...]
Date: 11/06/2009 11:40 AM
To: "Waterforum" <waterforum@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WaterForum] Texas amphibian / sewer plant

   What's with the focus on the person? What qualifies the author to
distinguish those who are in "life-learning mode" and not? And the
"nots," do they have no need to learn because they have all the answers?

~Paul °
°
Paul Kay °<:))))))><
Oregon


jesl@... . wrote:

> Stewart
>
>  Best we stick to dealing with concepts-facts-figures without undue
> focus upon individuals.
>  My circle advised me to comment at length upon the
> competence/motivation of PK as demonstrated in this forum and the
> Waterforum but I declined, due to my certainty that Forum members will
> read what they choose into her posts, are not in need of guidance,
> and Pat is still in life-learning mode.
>
>  Our interest is in presenting ways to manage rainwater intelligently,
> "harvesting" it from rooftops, yards and overland flows plus
> preventing its
> loss by avoidable evaporation, transpiration and flow to the ocean.
> Any
> discussion of this is useful, whether it suits our particular bents
> or nol.
>  A Professional Engineer in PK's school announced intent to contact
> the Profs who will be called upon to grant her certification as one of
> their elite. I discouraged this notion by pointing out that at least she
> has been
> exposed to alternative views of how rainwater can be managed, a
> potentially useful experience as she learns the realities of private
> manipulation of public information.
>
>  Others in her class who do not participate in forums such as these
> will be
> even less capable of perceiving the entire picture, so she may one day
> provide an antidote to false/misleading advice they provide to clients.
>  I prefer to look at the up side of this: Pat has many times given me
> justification for expanding my presentations on various aspects of
> managing rainwater. Despite the incivility she has done useful civil
> engineeting iwork by promoting consideration of alternatives.
>  I strongly object to misusing laws relating to the management of
> natural resources, injecting trivialities in ways that obstruct good
> planning.
>The "discovery" of an endangered species that is just a mutant strain is
> commonly used by phony "Environmentalists" to achieve devious ends of
> the private sector that sponsors their efforts through generous grants,
> covert news media presentations, fattened contracts and outright bribes.
> Seems to me that bad planning should be defeated by good information
> and shining a light on the planning process, not by persuading public
> servants to abuse regulations.
>
>  The construction of additional wastewater treatment facilities is
> contrary
> to common sense and State laws that require spending public wealth
> wisely. Sensible opponents of a new treatment plant would focus upon
> presenting, directly to politicians rather than public works
> managers, the
> alternative of requiring onsite tertiary treatment or individual
> septic tanks
> with neighborhood effluent leach fields rather than attachment to a
> centralized system.
>  If these presentations are properly done and the politicians are not
> dimwitted or corrupt this will lead to a revision of local
> regulations that
> brings lower taxes, utilities and mortgage payments in addition to a
> cleaner environment with less water supply problems.
>  Lets focus on facts and figures, not personalities. We are just
> minor parts
> of the planning mix but we can do good things by finding and
> presenting accurate and complete information.
> Jim Marple
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Date: 10/26/2009 02:49 PM
> From: "flwaterwars" <flwaterwars@...>;
> Subject: [WaterForum] rare amphibian(Texan Salamander) endangered by
> new sewer plant
> To: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
>  the gaps of info in this previous post by Pat are now completed below
> the underlining and the addition of the waco newspaper article
> you can't fool all the people (and not me very often) all the time
> maybe the government but....who knows the outcome?
> what do you think?
> a question of ethics?
> poor judgement or?
> Stewart Loeblich
>
>         -----Original Message-----
> From: "flwaterwars" [flwaterwars@...]
> Date: 10/26/2009 02:49 PM
> To: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WaterForum] rare amphibian(Texan Salamander) endangered
> by new sewer plant
> Dear waterbugs
>  My dissertation topic is a case study involving a city's efforts to
> construct
> a waste water treatment plant in a rural area outside its limits. I am
> particularly interested in the conflicts, and resolution of, the
> perceived
> and objectives risks associated with their use While doing research on
> fauna in the watershed, I came across a piece of information I
> believe is
> relevant, but has not been brought forward A well respected biologist
> collected a specimen of an extremely *rare amphibian on the creek that
> will serve as the discharge waterway.
>  This information is not mentioned in the permit application nor has a
> study been done confirming or denying the presence of the species on
> the creek. Although it is documented as being incredibly rare (a
> literature
> search found two mentions of its presence in Texas and no mention of
> it elsewhere), it is not listed on the endangered species list What, if any,
> issues does this raise? As a side note, the majority of the funding for the
> project is from federal funds and the site is in Texas
> Thank you Pat Kultgen

I don't handle a personal real case to refer now; but be seriously aware that
cooling water in power plants always involve the cooling tower.
the drops of water and evaporation at high rate, take the cooling water to the
environmet sorrounding the power plant.
Bacteria is a sensitive concern. If the water is domestic sewage after
biological digestion, any hazardous chemical will be involved; but high
concentration of microorganisms is for sure be present.
Too many bacteria will be flying around.
The treatment that the suppier is proposing you MUST assure the complete safe
biological hazard.

BORIS ARAUJO




________________________________
De: Emily Monosson <emonosson@...>
Para: waterforum@yahoogroups.com
Enviado: vie, noviembre 6, 2009 4:04:45 PM
Asunto: [WaterForum] using treated sewage for cooling power plants?

 
Hi. Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage tmt water for
cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass plant here that plans to use
600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt water a day (not sure of the amounts) for
cooling.

There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
(pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam that will be
released via the cooling process. The plant will be in a residential area.

Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water when released as
steam?
Any cases where this has been considered a problem?

Thanks,

Emily

Emily Monosson, PhD
Environmental Research and Writing
Montague MA
413-367-0052
www.theneighborhood toxicologist. blogspot. com
www.sciencemoms. wordpress. com
www.eoearth. org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
¡Obtén la mejor experiencia en la web!
Descarga gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8.
http://downloads.yahoo.com/ieak8/?l=e1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Plumbing

When it comes to plumbing, saving water is the name of the game. With water
shortages already affecting many areas of the country and predicted to increase
in the future, the way we use and conserve water resources is a huge priority.
Thousands of gallons of water can be saved every year by making a few small
changes in our daily habits and by purchasing and installing the latest
water-saving appliances and fixtures.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency’s WaterSense the average
household spends as much as $500 per year on water and sewer bills. Making a few
simple changes could save homeowners up to $170 per year. If all U.S. households
installed water-efficient appliances, the country would save more than 3
trillion gallons of water and more than $18 billion per year. A tremendous
amount of energy is required to treat water supplies. According to the EPA,
letting your faucet run for five minutes uses about as much energy as letting a
60-watt light bulb run for 14 hours. By using water more efficiently, we reduce
the need for costly new wastewater treatment facilities and save energy as well.
The EPA offers suggestions for simple things everyone can do to help conserve
water:
 Thanks & Regards



       The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
http://in.yahoo.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Emily !

It's more likely that any contaminants would be retained and concentrated in the
lagoon than in the steam. 

So, IMO emptying of the lagoon is more likely to cause problems - this isn't to
say that NO contaminants would be drawn up through the towers.

Best Wishes from WirlyBird.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi.  Anyone out there know anything about the use of treated sewage tmt water
for cooling power plants? We've got a proposed biomass plant here that plans to
use 600,000 gallons of treated sewage tmt water a day (not sure of the amounts)
for cooling.

There are concerns about releasing chemicals in the treated water
(pharmaceuticals, household chemicals etc.) into the air via steam that will be
released via the cooling process. The plant will be in a residential area.

Does anyone know of other plants that do this?
Any studies reporting on the fate of chemicals in treated water when released as
steam?
Any cases where this has been considered a problem?

Thanks,

Emily






Emily Monosson, PhD
Environmental Research and Writing
Montague MA
413-367-0052
www.theneighborhoodtoxicologist.blogspot.com
www.sciencemoms.wordpress.com
www.eoearth.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]