I am new to WCS 6 - since Friday afternoon... and I have some
questions.

What is the best place to Get SDTS DEM's - I have notice that the
USGS sites have ASCII dems and I have successfully downloaded and
importing them into WCS.

Also I was wonder if there was a way to import satelite images on to
maps directly in a realistic 3d map on the terrain.

Here is an example.. I saw a good tv show on the Gleenwood canyon
highway in colorado and I would like to get an acurate map in WCS
6.0.

I used Microsoft Streets and Trips to find the Longitude and
Latitude.. what I believe it is Longitute ~83.9 and Latitude ~34.3

Given 83.9 and 34.3 values where would best map be and if possible a
satelite image of area.  What would be nice is plugin to WCS that
with imput of Longitude and Latitude it would give the approvate Dem
and satelite image.  What I did find was GrandJunction east and west
dems on USGS site.

Also as a developer, I was wondering like Lightwave, does WCS
provide a SDK for plugin's.  WCS and Ligtwave are hobbies for me.

> I am new to WCS 6

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome! :)

> What is the best place to Get SDTS DEM's - I have notice that the
> USGS sites have ASCII dems and I have successfully downloaded and
> importing them into WCS.

You could take a look at GIS Data Depot
http://www.gisdatadepot.com

> Also I was wonder if there was a way to import satelite images on to
> maps directly in a realistic 3d map on the terrain.

Yes - read the section in your online help on Color Maps, and do the
tutorials that come on the CDs supplied.
Scott covers Color map application and image draping in one of those
tutorials.
If they doesn't answer your questions, feel free to post specifics on the
list.

> Here is an example.. I saw a good tv show on the Gleenwood canyon
> highway in colorado and I would like to get an acurate map in WCS
> 6.0.

Sounds like a viable use of the software.

> I used Microsoft Streets and Trips to find the Longitude and
> Latitude.. what I believe it is Longitute ~83.9 and Latitude ~34.3

> Given 83.9 and 34.3 values where would best map be and if possible a
> satelite image of area.

The best quality data of that area that you can obtain for free is, I
believe, 30m cell size.
Frank would be able to confirm/deny this for you on Tuesday when he is back
in the office.
There is 10m data available for most of Washington state.
It is likely that any of the data you have already obtained (The Grand
Junction quads you mentioned later, for example) are as good quality as you
will be able to obtain for free.

As for free satellite data, it is more scarce, but you may be able to get
hold of the correct area.
The USGS has available data and you may have some luck by creating mosaics
from screengrabs of aerial photos gleaned from http://www.mapquest.com
WCS does not allow the automatic georeferencing of images though. You will
have to set boundaries manually in a view or in value entry boxes, or use
the Snap to DEM function.
Many aerial images are GeoTIFFs and can be automatically placed if the
software supports them. WCS does not, but VNS does.

> What would be nice is plugin to WCS that with imput of Longitude and
> Latitude it would give the approvate Dem and satelite image.

You can use the GNIS search engine to do that for DEM data in the US:
http://mapping.usgs.gov/www/gnis
As for Aerial imagery, there are places where orthophoto data and other
aerial/satellite imagery is available, but it tends to be quite
area-specific. For example:

http://ortho.edc.uri.edu

> Also as a developer, I was wondering like Lightwave, does WCS
> provide a SDK for plugin's.  WCS and Lightwave are hobbies for me.

There is no SDK, as such.
There is a SE version of WCS which allows APIs for external integration with
other software tools.
There is no Plugin API, as such AFAIK - again, Chris could more accurately
confirm specifics when he gets back after the holidays.

You could, however, spend some time maybe looking at writing a plugin for
Lightwave that would allow it to communicate with SuperConductor ;)
The superconductor source is open, and we are always looking for
enthusiastic develeopers to "take up the reins" so to speak :)

Looking forward to seeing what you can produce with the software,

Best regards

Adam

Adam Hauldren,

Thanks for the info.. I have already saw that
site...and also just downloaded a blackridge 10 Meter
fire DEM... to tryout..

So far I was able to move Lightwave object into WCS.
Some of the movement of cameras get quite hard. Anyway
one of first pictures I planned to upload is picture
with Dinosaur from Dinorom cd for Lightwave.. I think
it would be cool.

I download superconductor source and maybe later will
try to run. I do have a internel network of 4 or so
computers..

I am also interest in tutorials on any near same
levation photo realistic shots.. Close to what
"Michael Mundy" or similar has done in 3dnature's
gallery.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Is it possible to run the tutorials outside of WCS 6
I would like to have the HTML tutorial running on
one machine while I did it on another
TIA
Don Vinson
3D Artist at Large
Or large 3D artist
Or something

Don Vinson,

I did that already - I have Sony 505 notebook and
place it on the notebook..

I also combine the QT movies with QuickTime Pro and
created a VCR Tape to watch it on TV.  A DVD Option
would be really nice..

Having it on the notebook works nice when reviewing
HTML version, TV is good for reviewing the tutorial
with audio going also.

The Tutorials are very nice to new comer.. I think I
would be significantly lost without them.. I do wish
that the manual would be a little more in detail. For
such a complex product.. I would expect a bigger
manual..


Hopefully some writer writes a book on the product
some time.. there are tons of lightwave books and it
would be good to see a book on this product.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Check the 3DNature.com web site for links to DEMs data, including SDTS DEMs.

Most SDTS DEMs are found through GISDataDepot.com.

As far as getting a satellite image, or a 'plugin' to go get one for you, alas
at this time it's not that easy. There are numerous vendors for such imagery,
but it's not something you can just click to buy on a web site. Usually such
data needs to be specially prepared for you. Nonetheless, there are some links
on our web site for imagery sources, some of which offer downloads.

Chris - Xenon

Sure. They're just Quicktime movies, accessed from HTML pages. THe HTML pages
are found in the Help/Tutorials/ directory, and the Quicktime MOV files they
lauch are found in the MOV directories on the Tutorial disks 1, 2 and 3.

Chris - Xenon

Have you tried perusing the nearly 800 pages of additional documentation
supplied as part of the online reference manual? In the past we've provided
massive tomes, and were told that users preferred the video tutorials, so for
V6, we decided to stop killing so many trees. Our forestry customers, I'm sure
are disappointed. ;)

Chris - Xenon

I uploaded a render of my first picture done with WCS 6.0 This is
image of Dinosaur in a field near a lake.  The Dinosaur came from
DinoRom that I purchase for Lightwave.  The scene was generated
using new Project.  I attempted to move a moon on the picture but
every time I click on the area it was pulling up the position for
camera.

Great start!

Add a vector bounded shadow map, so that the foreground tgree and dino are
casting shadows and it should add a huge amount of realism to the scene.
You may also want to look at putting some bump mapping on the dino...

FYI - the probable reason why your moon wasn't moving where you want is that
by default, celestial objects are linked to a light source.
If you disable this linkage, you should be able to move the celestial object
independently.

Regards

Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hstewarth [mailto:hstewarth@...]
> Sent: 02 September 2002 16:48
> To: wcsml@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WCS] Update Dino Render with WCS 6
>
>
> I uploaded a render of my first picture done with WCS 6.0 This is
> image of Dinosaur in a field near a lake.  The Dinosaur came from
> DinoRom that I purchase for Lightwave.  The scene was generated
> using new Project.  I attempted to move a moon on the picture but
> every time I click on the area it was pulling up the position for
> camera.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

Try making sure your Manipulate VIew's Camera button is off. THen make sure the
celestial object (Moon) is selcted as the active object. You can even turn on
the Active Object Lock button next to the ACtive Object display at the
bottom. THen, Control-click where you want the moon. Bam!

The dinosaur looks pretty cool. He needs a shadow to help him look like
he's standing on the ground.

What was the source of the DEM data?

Chris - Xenon

Question about exporting geotifs in projected.
Trying to get a UTM geotif output for import into Freehand/mappublisher and
or other mapping software.

Try as I might, cannot seem to export geotif's in anything expect
geographic.

I have made sure import as: UTM, settings as UTM, exporting from planimetric
view, but can only seem to get geo ouptut.

Any ideas on what I am missing here? (besides a few million braincells)
Thanks
		 Rick


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"What was the source of the DEM data?"


The source of DEM data was a New Project wizard...
I pick some options and then added a new camera and
position it close to the ground.

  The dinosaur was from Dinsaurs ROM - Gruppo Iride CD
collection - I can not find it on the web anywhere.
There are 10 objects on the cd.  I try to shadow it..
but email from Adam Hauldren mention something of
Vector Bounded shadow map...

I will attempt to make one with another this time with
shadow map and moon...maybe a different landscape for
fun and different dinosaurs.. T-Rex and Raptor's would
be cool.


I also want to re-inact some scene from 20Million BC -
I know people did not exist when Dinosuars around, but
it would be cool with modern graphics..

I believe two things would really help this program:

    1.  Support for Multiple threads during rendering.
Also full SSE2 support ( IE Lightwave ).

    2.  Support for collision between 3d objects and
the real world objects - like the grass... it would be
cool to see grass weighted down with press of dino's
foot.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

I work on another Dino picture entirely in WCS 6.0 with another
DinoRom Lightwave Object.

This one I was able to get moon to work correctly.. I am attempted
to shadows on the T-Rex but it did not appear to effect the
picture.. This is a early night picture primary because darker
pictures make better Windows Backgrounds..

I used the New projects with the following settings...

     MesaCanyons - made ocean filled to top of mountains...
     Western Desert terrain - reduce tree density..
     Midnight Blue sky with Moon and stars
     Sunset clouds..
     28MM Lens close to eye level.

I attempt to to do haze and cloud hazed in the blackground... I am
not sure there is much effect.. I try to start it out near start of
rear lake.. there is a small lake near the Dino.


I am also curious about pictures here, when do they get removed and
what are some of limits.. What sizes should they be...

> I work on another Dino picture entirely in WCS 6.0 with another
> DinoRom Lightwave Object.

Excellent!

> This one I was able to get moon to work correctly.

I think I prefer this image to the last one, even though it has less complex
foliage.

> I am attempted to shadows on the T-Rex but it did not appear
> to effect the picture..

Enabling shadows for the TRex object will not produce shadows in the final
render unless you have created a shadow map to receive the shadows.
Digitize a vector around your TRex and attach it to a new shadow map (call
it "Rex Shadow" or similar)
Check the video tutorial on shadow map generation and it should give you
some leads.

> This is a early night picture primary because darker
> pictures make better Windows Backgrounds..

;)

> I used the New projects with the following settings...
>
>     MesaCanyons - made ocean filled to top of mountains...
>     Western Desert terrain - reduce tree density..
>     Midnight Blue sky with Moon and stars
>     Sunset clouds..
>     28MM Lens close to eye level.

Glad that someone is experimenting with the New Projects wizard - a new
feature for v6.

> I attempt to to do haze and cloud hazed in the blackground... I am
> not sure there is much effect. I try to start it out near start of
> rear lake. there is a small lake near the Dino.

Did you use diagnostics to find out the approximate distance to various
features in your scene?
When you have finished a test render, a diagnostic window appears and you
can click in various points in your rendered image and get feedback on
distance, slope etc.
Click where you want the haze to be the most dense, and enter this into the
Haze Maximum distance in your atmosphere component.
Set up the Minimum Distancre similarly.
You should see the effect in OpenGL, so you shouldn't have too much trouble
setting it interactively.

> I am also curious about pictures here, when do they get removed and
> what are some of limits..

AFAIK, the group has 20Mb of space on the Yahoo server for files and 30Mb
for Photos
We have rarely used the photos section of the site before, and we've just
cleared out the files section.
There should be plenty of room for example renders right now.

Size is always an issue - not just because of storage space, but also
becvause not everyone wants to have to download 1.5Mb of data to see your
latest creation.
Try and use JPEG and compress as much as you can without inordinate loss of
quality.

Also - should you produce work of which you are particularly proud, send
them privately in higher res format to Mindy or myself and we can see about
adding a Gallery page to the website for you ;)

> What sizes should they be...

For the group posting, the size you have been using is good - usually no
more than 640 by 480 is recommended, altho' there is no "official" limit.
For your Gallery page if and when you require one, I would suggest no bigger
than 1024 by 768.

We are always looking for artwork for the showreel and promotional material,
so do keep showing us what you create!

Regards

Adam

"Glad that someone is experimenting with the New
Projects wizard - a new
feature for v6."

I found it to be the easilest way to get started with
a good map to start playing around with.  As new user
since recieving WCS 6 last Friday... it appears to be
a fast way to get started with it.  I initial did
download some demos but they seam to complex and
features were not coming out right.  I wonder if there
will be any more components for the new project
wizard..

I did try to experient with underwater last night (
there is a shark on DinoRom ), but it does not look
right.. needs to more inclosed... Half the moon was
underwater.  I played with a little water settings and
got it little better.

Well I am going to attempt some more, maybe not
tonight ( I have normal programming job today )
because of work today and the fact that Blade II comes
out DVD.  One thing that might be cool is surealistic
view from one of moons of saturn..



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Life is tough, especially on tropical beaches, far from the maddening
crowd, etc etc etc.

Gary Passow
GIS Coordinator
Swiftwater Field Office
Bureau of Land Management
777 NW Garden Valley Blvd
Roseburg, OR

Web Page http:\\www.or.blm.gov\roseburg
Phone:  541-464-3294
FAX:      541-440-4948



                     "Chris
                     'Xenon'              To:     wcsml@yahoogroups.com
                     Hanson"              cc:
                     <xenon@3dnatu        Subject:     Re: [WCS] Attention WCS6
owners!
                     re.com>

                     08/30/2002
                     08:39 AM
                     Please
                     respond to
                     wcsml





Mindy Bieging wrote:
> As with past WCS upgrades, when you first run WCS6 you will need to call
or e-mail our office for an authorization code.
> I wanted to bring this to your attention as we are going to be closed on
Monday for the holiday (and closing a bit early today) so if you want to be
able to use your new version before Tuesday I would strongly suggest that
you install now and start the program so that you can get your
authorization code.
> We can not wait to see what you create with the new version.

    We may attempt to check e-mail over the holiday, assuming we can get a
satellite
connection from the tropical beach where we intend to be relaxing and
tanning, so
e-mail to the authorization e-mail box (authorize@...) _might_ get
answered,
but then again it might not. Darn tropical storms, y'know. And spilling
your little
umbrella-topped drink into the laptop can just take you offline for a whole
weekend... ;)

> Happy rendering!
> Mindy

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." -
Xen


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Dans un courrier daté du 02/09/2002 01:19:13 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
donv@... a écrit :

<< Is it possible to run the tutorials outside of WCS 6
  I would like to have the HTML tutorial running on
  one machine while I did it on another
  TIA
  Don Vinson
  3D Artist at Large
  Or large 3D artist
  Or something
   >>
You can play the *.mov directely in the QuickTimePlayer on one computer and
work on the other at the same time. Do the same with the html pages directely
in your browser (you'll get a  larger screen without the 3DNature banier
under ie5).

Cheers, Jean-Paul Alandry.

Perhaps Chris could confirm, but as I understand it, the output from WCS/VNS
is always geographic, whatever the input coordsys.
Rendering in other coordinate systems is on the wishlist ;)

Regards

Adam

-----Original Message-----
> From: SpatialTek [mailto:RC@...]
> Sent: 02 September 2002 18:53
> To: wcsml@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [WCS] VNS geotif export
>
>
>
> Question about exporting geotifs in projected.
> Trying to get a UTM geotif output for import into
> Freehand/mappublisher and
> or other mapping software.
>
> Try as I might, cannot seem to export geotif's in anything expect
> geographic.
>
> I have made sure import as: UTM, settings as UTM, exporting from
> planimetric
> view, but can only seem to get geo ouptut.
>
> Any ideas on what I am missing here? (besides a few million braincells)
> Thanks
> 	 Rick
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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>
>

donv8fiero wrote:
> I have posted some renders that are mostly about 2 years old to the
> photos section in response to Chris's request for WCS 5 Renders
> The Duplex is more recent.
> Don Vinson


    Cool stuff. Care to describe them to us?

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen

I'm certainly no expert on U.S. data, but the last time I needed U.S.
elevation data, http://gisdata.usgs.net/NED/ was just the ticket.  I
believe it's the same data you're looking for, but in a seamless
(non-tiled) format.  When I used this data, it was free up to a certain
size (I think 10 Mb, and repeat as necessary);  I don't remember the
details but if you're just looking for a few quads' worth, you should be
ok.  I needed a few states worth, so ended up paying for it, but it was
still much less expensive in the end than manually downloading quads.
  There is also NLCD data available in a similar fashion, but I haven't
used it.

Regards,
Mel

hstewarth wrote:

>What is the best place to Get SDTS DEM's - I have notice that the
>USGS sites have ASCII dems and I have successfully downloaded and
>importing them into WCS.
>

SpatialTek wrote:
> Question about exporting geotifs in projected.
> Trying to get a UTM geotif output for import into Freehand/mappublisher and
> or other mapping software.
> Try as I might, cannot seem to export geotif's in anything expect
> geographic.

    VNS is not a raster data reprojector. Any planimetric output from VNS is
in platte-carre/geographic coordinates.

> I have made sure import as: UTM, settings as UTM,

    This tells VNS that the data your _importing_ is in geographic.

> exporting from planimetric
> view, but can only seem to get geo ouptut.
> Any ideas on what I am missing here? (besides a few million braincells)
> Thanks

    What projection system is your input data in?

> 	 Rick

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen

Gary_Passow@... wrote:
> Life is tough, especially on tropical beaches, far from the maddening
> crowd, etc etc etc.

    Yes, but somehow we kept the little umbrella-topped drinks out of the
laptop long enough to issue a bunch of authorization codes this weekend.
Our work is never done...

    Actually, I was out working in my yard, but the tropical beach story
sounded better... ;)

> Gary Passow
> GIS Coordinator
> Swiftwater Field Office
> Bureau of Land Management
> 777 NW Garden Valley Blvd
> Roseburg, OR

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen

Stewart Hyde wrote:
> I believe two things would really help this program:
>    1.  Support for Multiple threads during rendering.

    We have stated several times before that our method of rendering is
not compatible with multithreading, and we do not expect this to change.

> Also full SSE2 support ( IE Lightwave ).

    We are looking into this and other processor optimizations.

>    2.  Support for collision between 3d objects and
> the real world objects - like the grass... it would be
> cool to see grass weighted down with press of dino's
> foot.

    I don't believe this will ever be practical, due to the vast number
of things we would have to compare for collision detection. Try creating
a scene of similar complexity in LW, and add some collision detection to
it and see what I'm talking about. ;)

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen

The Duplex was a texturing experiment, and I beileve the others used Ayers
Rock for the DEM
The Ayers Rock stuff was just to get to  know WCS 5 a little better.
Should have some WCS 6 stuff within the next 2 weeks.
Thanks
Don Vinson
3D Artist at Large
Or large 3D artist
Or something
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris 'Xenon' Hanson" <xenon@...>
To: <wcsml@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WCS] Renders


> donv8fiero wrote:
> > I have posted some renders that are mostly about 2 years old to the
> > photos section in response to Chris's request for WCS 5 Renders
> > The Duplex is more recent.
> > Don Vinson
>
>
>    Cool stuff. Care to describe them to us?
>
> Chris - Xenon
> --
>   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
>         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
>   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to
Exist." - Xen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Subscribe/UnSubscribe, Online Archives:
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>
>

hstewarth wrote:
>
> I used Microsoft Streets and Trips to find the Longitude and
> Latitude.. what I believe it is Longitute ~83.9 and Latitude ~34.3
>
> Given 83.9 and 34.3 values where would best map be and if possible a
> satelite image of area.  What would be nice is plugin to WCS that
> with imput of Longitude and Latitude it would give the approvate Dem
> and satelite image.  What I did find was GrandJunction east and west
> dems on USGS site.

    Those DEMs are 90m resolution.

    This is a good site to find out what 7.5' quadrangle you'll need to
cover a site:

http://www.topozone.com/

    That Lat/Lon isn't in the state of Colorado.  Maybe those were from
something else you were looking up?

    This is the GNIS or Geographical Name Information System site.  You
can type in a feature name and it'll look up the quad names for you
(although it's offline right now):

http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnis/web_query.gnis_web_query_form

--
Frank P. Weed II  -  Frank2@...
If you don't like your world, build a better one!
World Construction Set Web Page  -  http://www.3DNature.com
******* A driver a day keeps the hardware in play *******

Thanks Chris and Adam, getting ahead of myself as to its capabilities
(wishful thinking list I guess) ;)

Chris, this particular data is UTM 11N nad27.
I had wrongly assumed that by "importing as" and "setting projection as"
that my geotif would be also be able to be same. I will just experiment
projecting the geographic output in IDRISI or IMAGINE and see how that works
out instead.
Thanks for clarifying my mystery :0
							 Rick

-----Original Message-----




    What projection system is your input data in?


Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." -
Xen


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Is it possible to add text to a rendering in VNS? Further - is it possible
to add the text to follow a vector?

Thanks


Jeff Thurston, MSc.
Integral GIS
Berlin, Germany
tel. 49(030)24.04.98.88
www.integralgis.com

I think you could always make a 3D Object in Lightwave
and add the custom object to your project.. One of the
other guys would probably have a better answer.


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Jeff Thurston wrote:
> Is it possible to add text to a rendering in VNS?

    No. WCS 6 has a new Text Overlay PostProcess for doing things like this. It
operates much like a 2D text overlay (a la Photoshop) but has certain variables
you can insert that will be filled in at render-time with interesting things
like lat/lon/elev/heading/CameraName/ProjectName etc.

> Further - is it possible
> to add the text to follow a vector?

    Hmm. No. Even WCS6's Text Overlay is just overlaying text onto the screen, it
doesn't try to conform to anything.

    You could perhaps rasterize the text you want into a small image using
Photoshop
and then use it as a colormap or texture overlay (with alpha channel).

> Thanks
> Jeff Thurston, MSc.
> Integral GIS
> Berlin, Germany
> tel. 49(030)24.04.98.88
> www.integralgis.com

Chris - Xenon
--
   Chris Hanson | Xenon@... | I've got friends in low latitudes!
         New World Construction Set 6!: http://www.3DNature.com/
   "There is no Truth. There is only Perception. To Perceive is to Exist." - Xen