I wrote:
> I  had to "downloaded" the sites using WebWacker....which doesn't seem to
be
> able to pull down background images.  Worst case, I'll just have to
> recreate...but I'm hoping someone has a better way to capture these files?

I feel stupid....forget recreating...I just called up the background images
directly by including them in the URL, clicked the image, did a "save as,"
and voila!  Amazing how something so simple managed to elude me.... =(

~joy muehlenbein
http://www.joyspun.com

I'd be very interested in a geocaching trip.

I've had a GPS since 1995 but it's an older and less sensitive aviation
based mapping model. Ironically, however, I was just at WalMart tonight
(before I read this post, strange synchronicity there) looking at the Garmin
GPS 12 which was recommended on one set of geocaching posts I'd read several
months back. For $150 you can buy this unit which is *way* more accurate
than my old $900 model from 6 years back. Gotta love electronics, things
have come a long way in a really short amount of time.

Please let me know if a trip gets planned, I'm always up for a reason to go
on a good hike/treasure hunt.

Enjoy!

Robin

On 7/31/01 7:06 PM, "Kari Embree" <kari@...> wrote:

> Hi, all --
>
> Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> since it's our first time?)
>
> Curious about this new thing,
> Kari Embree
> kari @ catchworld.com
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     THE list for San Diego Web Folk -> http://WebSanDiego.org
>  information on subscribing, unsubscribing: http://WebSanDiego.org
> Snipping replies is fun!: http://WebSanDiego.org/administrativa.shtml
> (if you see this twice in one post, the person posting did not snip)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

The main reason I recommended a web-savvy IP attorney was that law is so
open to interpretation, especially in emerging areas like the internet.
Rightly or wrongly, there are lots of quirks about the mere fact that
something is digital and since the legal system is so old, the concepts do
not always scale to the new medium. One only need to look at the amount of
conflicting information that's available on this newsgroup alone (as well as
across the web) about the topic to see how easy it is to get confused.

If you are comfortable using a book about copyrights as they relate to
professional photography and to use a contract from that book to cover
yourself in web development, that's great. For others, it still is not a bad
idea and not terribly expensive to seek professional counsel from an IP
attorney. I'm not an attorney, don't claim to fully understand the space but
I do know that there is very little about the law that is cut and dried.

And it's better to spend a few $$ up front and fully protect one's self than
it is to find out about a quirk later and then have to retain counsel to fix
something that's gone awry. The old oil filter commercial "You can pay me
now or you can pay me later" comes to mind, only having a lawyer fix
anything is a heck of a lot more expensive than any visit to your mechanic
;-).

Enjoy!

Robin

On 7/31/01 11:48 AM, "Jean-Pierre D'Zahr" <dzahr@...> wrote:

> July 31, 2001
> 11:39:32 AM
>
> Hi Robin,
>
> I was a commercial photographer back in the 1980's old
> timer.....Anyway a cheaper way of understanding Intellectual property
> rights can ba found in a book from the ASMP American Society of Media
> Photographers Professional Business Practices in Photography.  It
> also has standard contracts protecting your rights and ownership of
> your Intellectual property.  $24.95
>
> George's Camera & Video Exchange in San Diego has it.
>
> BTW I use a contract from this book to protect myself from my
> clients.  They always want to own stuff even if they didn't pay for
> it.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> Jean-Pierre D'Zahr
> http://www.FortuneBiz.com
> We build Business Web sites and Store Front Shopping carts
> 858-546-8283 office/fax
>
>
>
>

I'd like to take a shot at helping you out but I am not too clear on
your question.

When I went to your site I noticed the problem that if I mousover
say "Our Hotels" the layer appears fine but when I move the mouse
over to get one of the links the layer goes away.

This won't happen unless you told it too do that, a mouseover to show
a layer will leave the layer visible until an event such as a
mouseout makes it again hidden.

From the code it looks like you are using Dreamweaver, and the
show/hide layers behavior. Once you involve more than two layers you
could run into a problem of not knowing which layer to hide before
making the desired layer visible, in other words, which was the last
layer shown?

Fortunately, you can set multiple layers to hidden from within the
show/hide dialog box. So on each link, set the desired layer to show,
all others to hidden, onMouseOver, do nothing on mouseOut.

I hope that help you in some way,

Steve D.
http://sjdes.com



--- In websandiego@y..., "Charles Wilson \(h\)" <me@c...> wrote:
> http://charles.loveofcolor.org/cots-layers/
>
> Try it out?
>
> Mouseover "Mission" or "Our Hotels" .
>
> I am having trouble bringing a layer to the front after I show
another layer.
>
> The reason is that I am using Visibility as a property to make them
appear.  Should I be using
> Z-Index?  From my findings, I thought z-index was just in reference
to other layers.
>
> What code could I use to adjust the z-index, or is there another
way I should use?
>
> -charles wilson

Patrick Smith wrote:
>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
	 I can help with the sailing and scuba diving. Haven't tried geocaching.
:-)

	 Cheers,
	 Dave

"P. Elias" wrote:
> i have a few quick questions for the mac folk out there...
> Setup:
> Dual G4 500
> ATI Radeon 32meg AGP (2x i think)
>
> Question:
> what are my options for a second video card? can i move my existing
> AGP card and get something better? or is my only other option a PCI
> video card?

I dunno - one way is to look at what you have inside - there used to be
a piece of software called the GURU to help here - but now it's online:
http://www.gurulounge.net/

> last but not least, what kick ass video cards do you guys recommend?

I have 2 older ATI cards (please don't laugh) - a Rage Orion and an
xclaim 3d Plus - the ATI cards have been good for me.

> i am thinking about using my older 19incher as my second monitor and
> will pick up another 19+ inch monitor to run as my main monitor (for
> those curious in what the new card will need to handle).
>
> i have heard of the Nvidia card but it seems to be AGP 4x or
> something like that and i am not sure if my machine supports that :-\

I don't know man -- is http://www.macintouch.com/ a good place to look
for this kind of information? I personally am not up on Mac hardware or
video stuff. Wish I could help more.

	 - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

Hello Joy --

jjoyous1@... wrote:
> Thanks, Joe.  I was starting to feel unwelcomed here,
> ironically, on the day that I received my first check in
> the mail for services.

Now *that's* a good feeling.

> I may be new to the business but I have created four
> websites for a client that is very happy with my efforts,
> I have done a lot of edits to sites, and the work I am
> most proud of, was getting a client's site to rank on the
> first page in aol and yahoo, and other search engines,
> where they previously were not even in the top 30.
> Everybody has to start somewhere.

It's always satisfying to make something which a client likes, but that
seems to do its job well. Search engine ranking is one metric there.

> I don't pretend I can do things I cannot do and I charge
> an hourly rate that is appropriately low.  My target
> market is small businesses that just want a professional
> internet presence...an online brochure.  I turn edits
> around in 24 hours, give stellar customer service and can
> produce gramatically correct text that is sans
> typographical errors in a design that is easy to read and
> easy to navigate...which is a lot more than I can say for
> a lot of "web designers,"  based on what I see out there
> on the internet.

The niche you are in is competitive - but it sounds like you're
providing a personal touch, and doing the radical thing of providing
stellar customer service. Those of us with grand theories about how
things should be done /technically/ can certainly about customer
services from those who make their living providing "service with a
smile." :-)

Hope that made sense.

> In any event, I'm not giving up my dreams because
> somebody thinks this is an appropriate forum to criticize
> wanabes.  (Apologies to Todd, but you did actually use
> that language.)
>
> I might also mention that I have a webmaster mentor who
> has taken me under his wing and is subcontracting work
> out to me.  If I can't figure out how to do something, I
> have lots of people (you all included) that have been
> more than willing to help.  My clients do not have the
> most skilled, educated and talented web designer but they
> could not find someone more committed to them having what
> they want.

Mentors are /so/ important. You have to find people who challenge you
and make you think about what you do.

> The encouragement I have received from
> seasoned internet professionals has been overwhelming.  I
> would not have set out on this path if I had not received
> the outpouring of "you can do it" that I received from
> other "self-taught" web designers who love what they do
> and were very supportive of my business goals.
>
> Anyway, that's my 4 cents.  Once again, thanks for the
> opportunity to let my little voice be heard.

And thanks for sharing your experiences Joy.

	 - joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

Dan wrote:
> iXL has an office up in Carlsbad...
> --------------
> NEWS
> Scient and iXL Ink Merger Deal
>  by Brian Morrissey
>
> In a sign that the long-awaited consolidation of the moribund
> Internet consulting industry has begun in earnest, Scient (Nasdaq:
> SCNT) and iXL (Nasdaq: IIXL) inked a definitive agreement to merge.

Yes, but will it help?

Other links on this deal:
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5094958,00.html
http://news.excite.com/news/ap/010731/18/scient-ixl-enterprises
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1007-200-6728018.html

Their sites + the press release:
http://www.ixl.com/
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=IIXL&script=410&layout=-6\
&item_id=196144

http://www.scient.com/
http://www.scient.com/pc/about/press_room/index.jsp (hm, why no press
release here?)

The ixl office Dan referred to:
http://www.ixl.com/company/locations/index.asp

The phrase I've heard (and used) about these big web agencies (and they
were *huge* at one time) and all big consultancies is this: consulting
doesn't scale. The theory being that beyond a certain size a consulting
agency is simply to dispersed to be an effective team. Now, I think the
creation of "Tiger Teams" - teams of small groups who are tasked to
provide service as a discrete unit apart from the main corporate body -
are an interesting approach to making this work. This is all conjecture
on my part - I've read about these agencies but haven't worked in them.

	 - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

>I don't know man -- is http://www.macintouch.com/ a good place to look
>for this kind of information? I personally am not up on Mac hardware or
>video stuff. Wish I could help more.

i'm in the same boat... i used to be on top of these things :-\

thanks for the links though i'll check them out. i also remembered
this site <http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/>
--
_____________________

paulo elias | http://eliassolutions.com
web solutions specialist    paulo@...
eliasSolutions | 858 274 7450
			 _____________________

"Charles Wilson (h)" wrote:
> http://charles.loveofcolor.org/cots-layers/
>
> Try it out?
> Mouseover "Mission" or "Our Hotels" .
>
> I am having trouble bringing a layer to the front after I show another layer.
>
> The reason is that I am using Visibility as a property to make them appear. 
Should I be using
> Z-Index?  From my findings, I thought z-index was just in reference to other
layers.

z-index is something you should be thinking about anytime you have 2
layers or divs or blocks which will be overlapping. One technique I have
used to "bring to front" whatever the latest "bring to front" layer is
to define a global variable -- I call it UpUp - and each time the DHTML
script is invoked that number is incremented:

So maybe something like this - this is basically the same script 3 times
to account for Netscape 4, Netscape 6, Mozilla 0.9x, IE4+. Now, Steve
mentioned you were using Dreamweaver - I'm not sure how one would
integrate this with an existing DW page. I prefer to program these
(awful) things myself. You might also look at the links from
http://www.scottandrew.com/ - some great articles and links there.

/* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ */
var UpUp=0; // define a global variable
/* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ */
function showAndBringToFront(object)
{
  if (document.all && document.all[object]) {
    document.all[object].style.zIndex = UpUp;
    UpUp++;
    document.all[object].style.visibility='visible';
    }
  else if (document.layers && document.layers[object]!=null) {
    document.layers[object].zIndex = UpUp;
    UpUp++;
    document.layers[object].visibility = 'visible';
    }
  else if (document.getElementById &&
(document.getElementById(object)!=null)) {
    document.getElementById(object).style.zIndex = UpUp;
    UpUp++;
    document.getElementById(object).style.visibility = 'visible';
    }
}
/* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ */

> What code could I use to adjust the z-index, or is there another way I should
use?


Look at the lines above which reference zIndex in them. And remember
that that number is an integer, negative or positive, which is a
relative to everything else on the page. As a style attribute it looks
like this in a stylesheet:

<style type="text/css"><!--
#thingWithAZIndex { z-index: 0; }
//--></style>

For a good DOM browser you can alter the zindex of an object like this:
document.getElementById('aNamedObject').style.zIndex = 10

<div id="thingWithAZIndex">
that thing.
</div>

Now this last bit is untested code - YMMV. Remember that you have to
have overlapping content for it to be meaningful. A z-index defined for
an object with no other layers under or over it is sort of a "tree falls
in the forest" type concept. Sure it's "higher" or "lower" - but you
can't see it in relationship to anything else.

HTH!
	 Joe
p.s.: I like the colors of that design very much! Layout is nice too -
if still rough.
p.p.s.: Also Charles - when you post new stuff to the list may I suggest
that you *not* reply to an existing message? I was filing notes and
because your note was lumped with a previous thread my mail client filed
yours as well. I had remembered you had posted an interesting DHTML
message but I had to go to my filed messages to get to it. Just make a
new alias for websandiego and have the address be
websandiego@yahoogroups.com. This is not as important as snipping ( ^_^
) -- but it is a small issue for those of us on threading mail clients. Thanks!
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

I'm experiencing about a 20 minute delay for list mail, and about a 12
minute delay for other mail today. Is this the net slowdown due to the
various Worms, SirCam, etc?

Just an FYI. :-)

	 - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

This is a gigantic issue. DMCA, Dmitry, the new nominee for FBI
Director, the increase in budget for copyright police - lots of news in
this area.

(aside: Patrick - are there any particularly good news sources for DMCA
and Copyright issues?)

	 - Joe
And Patrick mentioned blogs the other day - I've put up a mongo-list of
the stuff I read and reference online - complete hodgepodge -
http://www.artlung.com/blog/ - and on my old archive pages . Still
trying to annotate them all with title tags so I can tell people what
they are  - though Christina-Aguilera.to and dictionaru.com are pretty
clear about what they are. ;-)
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

Howdy Joy (another "Joy" on the list - hopefully won't lead to confusion!)...

Joy Muehlenbein wrote:
> Just wondering how others have handled showing sites
> they've done when their contributions have ended, but the
> site continues to evolve.

It's all about screenshots and descriptions of what they did, and what
your part in them was.

> I'm working on a portfolio
> site http://www.joyspun.com and have links to sites I
> created.  But...in the short time since I left my last
> job, changes have been made that are very
> uncharacteristic of my work.  I've looked at hosting the
> pages myself but, because I wasn't able to get copies of
> my work from my employer, I  had to "downloaded" the
> sites using WebWacker....which doesn't seem to be able to
> pull down background images.  Worst case, I'll just have
> to recreate...but I'm hoping someone has a better way to
> capture these files?

Then she wrote:
> I wrote:
> > I  had to "downloaded" the sites using WebWacker....
> > which doesn't seem tobe
> > able to pull down background images.  Worst case,
> > I'll just have to recreate...but I'm hoping someone
> > has a better way to capture these files?
>
> I feel stupid....forget recreating...I just called up the
> background images directly by including them in the URL,
> clicked the image, did a "save as," and voila!  Amazing
> how something so simple managed to elude me.... =(

Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest ones!

> Also, any feedback on the site...good, bad or ugly...is
> appreciated.


I *really* dig it Joy. Never having seen your work - and having heard
you say on various occasions that you're not a programmer and not a
designer, but more of a project manager - I was not expecting much [[
maybe you were just lowering expectations? ;-) ]] -- but I like it alot.
Disciplined palette. Simple typography. You know where the accents go on
"resume" - what could be better? I might like to see a picture of you or
something a bit personal - something of /yourself/ - if not on the home
page on the contact page?

I really like the concept behind the %'s on this page:
http://www.joyspun.com/webs.cfm indicating what percentage of what you
did. That's a brilliant idea. I may have to steal that one someday. :-)

Overall, very very nice work.

> ~joy "send this girl to work" muehlenbein

Amen!

Best,

	 - Joe
--
...........  Joe Crawford : thinking and design about the web
.... enigmatic narcissism and miscellany : http://artlung.com
.... community instigator : http://WebSanDiego.org
.... San Diego, California, USA .....................AAAFNRAA

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

Joe Crawford wrote:
> The phrase I've heard (and used) about these big web agencies (and they
> were *huge* at one time) and all big consultancies is this: consulting
> doesn't scale.

I'm not so sure about that:  IBM, SAIC, McKinsey, Anderson, Accenture ...
The list goes on.

Scient, Viant, iXL, Agency.com, Aquent, Interliant, Lante, Luminant,
Organic, Proxicom, Razorfish, RareMedium: these are very different cases.

They had pretentions of being "real" consulting firms, but with one
difference: their expertise (such as it was) and their marketing positions
were all predicated on the "new economy" along with the hubris and
particular arrogance of the "bannana republicans".

Another very important element of this hubris: many times, their work
sucked. As one who has had to clean up projects behind some of these guys,
I'd consider many of them to have been almost criminally negligent at times.

In addition to hubris, some of this was caused by these companies expanding
so rapidly that quality necessarily suffered greatly.  So perhaps we could
say this:  there's a maximum rate of expansion that consulting firms can
sustain.  What's that rate?  Any ideas?

Patrick

:felt too bad to continue this in WSD. Moved it to NWRWebSD .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
> Kari Embree wrote:
> >
> > Anyone here familiar with geocaching (http://www.geocaching.com)?
> > Anyone here have a GPS that would be willing to go exploring some
> > weekend and let John and I tag along? (Maybe start with an easy one
> > since it's our first time?)
>
>
> Let's see, sailing + scuba diving + geocaching:  anyone up for a little
> underwater fun?!?
>
> Patrick
>

Joe Crawford wrote:
>
> This is a gigantic issue. DMCA, Dmitry, the new nominee for FBI
> Director, the increase in budget for copyright police - lots of news in
> this area.

Yep, it's hard to overestimate the importance of recent events in regards to
freedom of speech and privacy.

I've heard it said that efficient law enforcement leads to totalitarianism.
Sounds reactionary to say we're moving in that direction, but the
combination of corporate interest in copyright protections and law
enforcement interest in monitoring of communications creates lots of really
disturbing possibilities that are increasingly becoming real.

On the other side of this equation is often the anarchist hacker and most
recently a horrific child molester.  They don't make sympathetic victims to
the public at large.


> (aside: Patrick - are there any particularly good news sources for DMCA
> and Copyright issues?)

I doubt, Joe, that I have better knowledge of resources than you on this
subject.

But I'll take a stab, only if you contribute your list, too Joe :-)

Anyone interested in this topic should join Declan McCullagh's Politech
list: http://www.politechbot.com/

The EFF has a huge archive on Digital Rights Management
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/, including archives of information on specific
cases http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/DMCA/Felten_v_RIAA/ .

Wish I had more to offer right now, but I'm running out the door...

Patrick

SAN DIEGO LINUX USERS GROUP MEETING
"Hollywood Linux"

DreamWorks' summer hit movie Shek is just the first of many motion pictures
being produced primarily using Linux, a story you may have noticed on the
cover of the August issue of Linux Journal. As a contributing editor for
Linux Journal, Robin Rowe regularly reports on the progress of Linux as a
multimedia platform. In talking with leading studios in the United States
and England, Robin has discovered that they are all moving to Linux in a big
way -- both desktops and servers. He will talk about how this exciting trend
came about and what it means to the motion picture industry and Linux users
in general.

SDLUG Meeting Time and Location:

Today, 8/1/01, 6:30pm

Delphi Research, Inc.
3954 Murphy Canyon Road Suite D-201
San Diego, CA 92123
Tel.: 858 - 694 - 1314
Fax : 858 - 694 - 1356

Map: http://www.sdlug.org/test1SDL.nsf/meeting_location?OpenPage
(It's not far from Fry's.)

Speaker Bio:

Robin Rowe is a partner and founder of MovieEditor.com, a company building
software video players and editors. As the chief technologist and enterprise
manager of video R&D for a Fortune 500 defense contractor he developed
advanced video systems for DARPA and the Pentagon. He has taught C++
computer programming at two universities. He was a technical director of
broadcast news at an NBC-TV station and helped build the robotic television
studios at NBC Chicago. Software he designed is in use at Time Warner New
York and other television stations.

>They had pretentions of being "real" consulting firms, but with one
>difference: their expertise (such as it was) and their marketing positions
>were all predicated on the "new economy" along with the hubris and
>particular arrogance of the "bannana republicans".

That "predication of the new economy" seems to be the fatal flaw of many of
the F!@#ked Company's we're seeing at this point.  An expextation that all
things internet would turn to gold now seems hilarious.

Funny thing is when non-tech people say "the internet changed the world".
Do you agree?

Matthew Lee

<<--------------------------------->>
[professional]http://www.orbigen.com
               mlee@...
<<--------------------------------->>
[personal]http://www.celeryclub.com
           mlee@...
<<--------------------------------->>
[personal]http://www.vistaseeker.com
           matt@...
<<--------------------------------->>
NEW TO WEBSANDIEGO? READ THE FAQ!
http://websandiego.org/administrativa.shtml
  <<--------------------------------->>

Charles' mail is having some problem. He is now being moderated till he
or I figure out the problem.

Apologies for the many many multiples of this message.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/websandiego/messages

Ugh.

And Charles- please STRANGLE TO DEATH your mail client, or whatever is
responsible.


	 - joe "Texas Ranger" crawford

There was a post last week I think about the beta test of Majestic.

It intrigued me, and had resolved to look into it further.

Just came across an article that's a great intro to it for all of us not yet
in the know.  Sounds Very Cool.

"The game uses unconventional communications like cell phone calls, faxes,
voice mails, emails, AOL instant messages, Web site searches, and fake news
stories that blur the boundaries between game and real life -- all to keep
the player enthralled in the unraveling of a vast Orwellian conspiracy. It
is the brainchild of Neil Young, a thirty-something who loved video games
but found that he no longer had much time to devote to them as he started a
family. Getting a cell phone call from a character in the game won't
distract you from your workday, but it's enough to keep Majestic in the back
of your mind until you return to your desktop computer to check for
updates."

http://www.herring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=10000001&doc_id=680019
868&rh_special_report_id=

Patrick

Matthew Lew wrote:
>Funny thing is when non-tech people say "the internet changed the
world".
>Do you agree?

<snip>

The Internet is changing the world but the normal course of events is
occurring. Anybody who is a student of business (or other history) has
seen this over and over:

1) People tend to over estimate the short-term impact of major
technologies.

2) People tend to under estimate the longer term impact of major
technologies.

Linux is a perfect example: Many of it's loudest supporters thought it
would rule the world by now (based on their predictions a couple years
ago). It is gathering strong support but it's taking much longer than
many of the early adopters expected. Over a longer time frame it's
making a larger impact than most people expected. It covers both ends of
the spectrum quite nicely.

That's just one example. Airplanes, electricity, cars and TV are all
similar in nature... they started slow but ultimately changed the world
and the way we live and work. You could extend this thread for days
talking about historic examples and ways in which the Internet allows
people to live/work differently today.

Don Baarns
CEO and President
Baarns Consulting Group, Inc.
818.362.9235 (v)
mailto:DonBaarns@...
http://www.baarns.com

My 19-year-old son started playing it a week or two ago and says it is
really cool.  He won't tell me the "plot" because he wants me to join
in, too.  He receives clues via AIM and occasional phone calls, is
made to wait "real time" while another character "travels to Utah" or
whatever.  Other players in the game are real people, some are NPC.
Friends and foes help or hinder each other in their quests.

Sounds neat.
                                                 ~~~~Cheri Harder~~~~~
charder@... ~AdvantageWebSolution~ www.awsolution.com
charder@... ~DoveEnterprise~ www.doveenterprise.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Smith" <joehumanist@...>
To: "Websandiego@Yahoogroups. Com" <websandiego@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:12 AM
Subject: [websandiego] majestic, take 2...


> There was a post last week I think about the beta test of Majestic.
>
> It intrigued me, and had resolved to look into it further.
>
> Just came across an article that's a great intro to it for all of us
not yet
> in the know.  Sounds Very Cool.
>
> "The game uses unconventional communications like cell phone calls,
faxes,
> voice mails, emails, AOL instant messages, Web site searches, and
fake news
> stories that blur the boundaries between game and real life -- all
to keep
> the player enthralled in the unraveling of a vast Orwellian
conspiracy. It
> is the brainchild of Neil Young, a thirty-something who loved video
games
> but found that he no longer had much time to devote to them as he
started a
> family. Getting a cell phone call from a character in the game won't
> distract you from your workday, but it's enough to keep Majestic in
the back
> of your mind until you return to your desktop computer to check for
> updates."
>
>
http://www.herring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=10000001&doc_id=
680019
> 868&rh_special_report_id=
>
> Patrick
>
>
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