I see your point very clear... And you are right... sadly our society as a
whole, don't see this...

Just an idea... I was reading in Yahoo!, about the Bosnian-Serb War... And I
shock myself to the 7,500 Muslins genocide... I realize that from that
view... I could imagine a man (father and husband) seeing all his family
dying... been conviced that US/NATO are the "REAL" responsibles, and taking
the "sacred vote" to avenge those hited by these "devil"...

just wondering... but the REAL fact is that we (Occident), and those who
societies that follows the US, are not seeing the whole picture of the
WORLD...

R. J. C.

"Trust not thy eyes but your soul whisper"



From: Carl Landsness <landsnes@...>
To: Roberto Cerrud <etereal@...>, whirlpower@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [whirlpower] [Fwd: CANADA ON AMERICA]
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:14:06 -0700
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Roberto,

I'd like to expand on what I wrote you earlier. This event this week hit me
deeper than perhaps
any other single event in my lifetime. Yet, more than the event itself is
the reaction I see to
the event, especially here in the U.S. While the reactions appear very
diverse, the apparently
prevalent attitudes (e.g. innocent victim, unappreciated savior, "nuke-em")
bothers me most.
While understandable, I'd like to believe that our supposedly civilized and
highly educated
society could rise above that, and "walk the talk" that our predominantly
Christian culture
espouses. Understanding might be a first step, and forgiveness a second, but
that often implies
"We're right; you're wrong; but I will forgive you because I am so
righteous". I see very few
people (fortunately I do see some) who ask "How did I or we contribute to
this... actively or
passively? Could this horrendous act be a desparate plea to be heard and
acknowledged... after
many less violent and unsuccessful attempts to do so?" While I prefer to
see some form of
bilateral reconciliation, that can be a very difficult goal... and likely
impossible via
society's norm of blaming and punishing (usually termed "justice").

I hope this week's event can be a wake-up call or catalyst to transformation
of old patterns,
raising awareness of human issues and needs, and of our impact (individually
and collectively)
on others, and to take more responsibility for our choices and the choices
we delegate (or
defer) to others. While I do not condemn our past actions (which may have
been the best we were
capable of, and possibly well-intentioned), I'd like to believe that a
critical mass of humans
are now ready to rise to a new level of being and relating... versus
continuing the righteous,
blaming, victim, avoidance behaviors so typical of our past (in all
cultures).

Perhaps we will look back in 100 years to see this event as the painful but
invaluable turning
point.

Hopefully,

Carl L.


Carl Landsness wrote:

> Thank you for your very elegantly expressed thoughts and feelings.
> As an American born citizen, I am very uncomfortable with and sometimes
ashamed of the
> savior/hero attitudes you described, usually unwilling to call myself
"American".
>
> I appreciate and resonate with what you shared.
> Thank you for doing so.
>
> Carl Landsness
>
> Roberto Cerrud wrote:
>
> > As a citizen of a invaded by the US country... I'm do not feel that
United
> > States of America (America is the CONTINENT that goes from ALASKA to
> > ARGENTINA...) can stand neither as hero, nor as villian, let's be clear
> > people, I have friend in the US, family in the US, my country lives and
> > follows the US, and what had happened to NY and DC is of the worst
things a
> > human can become... But, that "I'm the saver of the world" attitude is
the
> > one that had helped those with the decisions and money to use the US
people
> > good will to other not so good porpouses...
> >
> > You live like the romans... ignorants of WHAT you create in other
places,
> > and you are not the evil, just are humans, the same as the rest of
us... The
> > US society has it's good things and it's bad things, you are very
> > responsible and diligent people, at the same time that "confort" race
make
> > you too much times a little "show me the money"...
> >
> > Technology and Science is good... but NOT shared, economically
manipulated
> > AND not always helping human kind... (lots of weapons tech and weapons
> > factories..).
> >
> > So, I donīt blame the US for Humankind problems, but neither consider
them
> > as the "we always help other, and nobody sees that"... You should
reconsider
> > the lasting hatred left in places like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Panama,
Saigon,
> > Vietnam...
> >
> > You don't see it, but lots of not so good thins are made in YOUR name,
with
> > YOUR TAXES...
> >
> > but, what had happened to you, is neither GOOD, its BAD, as what
happened in
> > Yugoslavia, Palestine, and so on...
> >
> > R. J. C.
> >
> > "Trust not thy eyes but your soul whisper"
> >
> > From: Brownlee <m9justice9@...>
> > Reply-To: whirlpower@yahoogroups.com
> > To: "Skywatch_Discussion (E-mail)" <skywatch_discussion@egroups.com>,
> > "Abress2m64@..." <Abress2m64@...>,
"algol@..."
> > <pantheon@...>, "alobarfrol@..."
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> > "astro-forum@egroups.com" <astro-forum@egroups.com>, Ben
Smith
> > <sandman654@...>, "Benjamin, Bill" <ben7718@...>,
> > "BigActress@..." <BigActress@...>,
"blackvault@..."
> > <blackvault@...>, Bobbie Felder <jilain@...>,
"Burdett,
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<tamarack@...>,
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<numnutz95@...>,
> > "Conway, Gerry" <g_conway@...>, "Cook, Paul"
<n6rpf@...>,
> > corey rodahl <coreyray1999@...>, Cosmic Conspiracies
> > <littlegreys@...>, Cosmic Rose <cosmicrose@...>,
Cousin Bill
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> > <jamilee@...>, janet smith <jmhs56@...>, Jason
Eisenhart
> > <rainman467@...>, Jason Kiesling <soulfree73@...>,
Jason
> > Pohlman <pohlman@...>, Jilain UFO Research Email list
> > <ufo.jilain-owner@...>, Joe Held
<alienanomalies@...>, "John
> > Greenewald," <greeney@...>, Jori X Mckie
> > <jori_x_mckie@...>, "jrgrif - J.R. Griffin (DQ)"
> > <jgriffin@...>, "justinh6@..."
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> > "Kevin M. Terrill" <k.m.terrill@...>, Ki Cat
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> > <PartnerOffers@...>, peter farley <peter6264@...>,
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> > Sarah Zak <babybutterbean@...>, SCOTT
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> > <swashoppin@...>, "Tgieseking1803@..."
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> > BEST DEAL FOR A CREDIT CARD <visanextcard@...>,
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> > Timothy Craig <chaserman@...>, Two Arrows
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> > Vanessa Kipp <wildalaskanrose@...>,
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> > <whirlpower@yahoogroups.com>, Who really cares
> > <monkeywrench147@...>, "whoru@..." <whoru@...>,
X X
> > <govermentcoverups@...>, your pal <hps1@...>, "Zajda,
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> > <petefaster@...>
> > Subject: [whirlpower] [Fwd: CANADA ON AMERICA]
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