>     Yes, Virginia, it is possible to create a software development
>     environment which is so difficult to use that no human
> being can do it.
>     ATL and COM+ are my two favorite examples (the latter is
> so complicated
>     that only one man on Earth, Don Box, actually understands
> everything
>     that's going on).

Joel has obviously never met Tim Ewald. :)

Well, it is quite funny, isn't it? Not because he's wrong, but because
there is (some) truth in it.

IMO, ATL is excessively complicated and filled with things that are
simply just bad style (~ ActiveX Macro Language). In that sense, it
follows the line from MFC.

I am not sure though if it really requires a brain the size of Colorado,
although I do remember gaining some extra weight while reading "ATL
Internals". :-)

Best regards,

Sofus Mortensen
http://www.lambdasoft.dk

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Wilson [mailto:dotnetguy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:55 AM
To: Off Topic Windows
Subject: [OT] (Humor) Joel Spolsky on...


...COM, ATL and C++ (well, not primarily, but his ranting is amusing):

     I chose to use Microsoft's ATL library to create the custom control,
     because it makes the smallest files. ATL is the most complicated
     programming environment in the world, requiring a brain the size of
     Colorado and 10 years of solid experience to understand what's going
on.
     I have studied ATL in depth three, maybe four times in my career and
I
     can never remember all the bizarre template crap that's going on in
     there. Nobody can.

     Yes, Virginia, it is possible to create a software development
     environment which is so difficult to use that no human being can do
it.
     ATL and COM+ are my two favorite examples (the latter is so
complicated
     that only one man on Earth, Don Box, actually understands everything
     that's going on). C++ itself comes pretty darn close. But most
     programmers are too macho to admit this.

     [...]

     (Somewhere, I had to change a hardcoded number to 131473, because I
     wanted my controls to be visible at runtime. A classic example of
why
     COM programming is not for humans.)

     - Excerpts from "Working on CityDesk, part Four"
       at http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$412

You gonna take this from a punk New Yorker, Chris? I bet you and Don can
take him, no problem. ;)

Brad


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Craig Andera wrote:

> Joel has obviously never met Tim Ewald. :)

Humor aside, I mean, he's got a really really good point. C++ is
complicated, COM is complicated, ATL is complicated. Things shouldn't be
this tough, and .NET helps a lot. When we were pursuing C++ using ATL, we
had a hard enough time just finding competent C++ programmers; we had to
teach COM and ATL to everyone, and still, they didn't do it very well.

Had we been using something like VB, they might've had better success...

Brad

----- Original Message -----

From: Brad Wilson

To: Off Topic Windows

Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:45 PM

Subject: Re: [OT] C++ on Mainframes

Prakash wrote:

> This is really OT hope people dont mind.

OT on an OT list!? How dare you!!! ;)

Kidding. :) I have no relevant mainframe experience, just a jovial sense of
humor. Good luck. :)

Brad



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----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Sedor

To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:52 PM

Subject: Re: [OT] C++ on Mainframes

Parkash,

I have done some C++ on the IBM mainframe at MassMutual in Springfield.

 

It is all batch, although, the IBM development environment is pretty good.

 

The only hang up is the use of a lot of ampersands &.  And you'll go crazy with the

epsidic to ascii issues if you are creating and transfering files at all.

 

Other than that, the environment is remarkably similar to VC++.  Just don't plan on

an integrated debugger.  The code, however, won't run any faster than Fortran.  You

might have an easier time getting some of those mainframers to buy into doing that

instead of C++.

 

Rob

 

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> Humor aside, I mean, he's got a really really good point. C++ is
> complicated, COM is complicated, ATL is complicated. Things
> shouldn't be
> this tough, and .NET helps a lot. When we were pursuing C++
> using ATL, we
> had a hard enough time just finding competent C++
> programmers; we had to
> teach COM and ATL to everyone, and still, they didn't do it very well.

I totally agree. When I teach classes on .NET, I often get some C++ guy
complaining that "sure, the garbage collector thing will work, but it gets
in my way of doing X" (ahem, Chris). It's interesting that what always works
is for me is to say, "Sure, *you* know what you're doing, but how many other
people do?" So basically, C++ programmers as a group admit that we get
caught up on this stuff. As for COM, as for ATL.

>
> Had we been using something like VB, they might've had better
> success...
>

Well, that's an interesting point, too. Yes, we'll be more productive 95% of
the time with high-level environments like VB or .NET. But VB that's acting
weird is waaaay harder to debug than C++ that's acting weird. With .NET,
we've got an even bigger runtime, and we're yet further removed from the
hardware.

So my guess is that we've made almost everyone more productive most of the
time, and far less productive some of the time. How does this balance out? I
would guess that overall we come out ahead. But it also seems like the
importance of having a Really Smart Hacker somewhere in your company has
gone up yet again.

Brad -


>I have a Minidisc deck and a bunch of Minidiscs that I'd like to rip to
WMA
>files. I normally use Musicmatch for my ripping pleasure, but obviously
>ripping from (an essentially) analog source is far different than
ripping
>the direct bits from an audio CD.

Errr... Minidisc's are digital... Your minidisc has some sort of digital
out right? (coax, optical if it's good)  Connect it to the digital in on
your soundcard ...  Obviously both your minidisc player and your
computers sound card have to support the same type of digital
connection...

You should be able to make perfect digital copies so long as you monitor
and record the correct source... (use SoundForge)


>Does anybody have any recommendation for a tool that can, say, record
the
>entire disc of audio into a single large WAVE file that can then be
later
>split apart into the appropriate tracks and then encoded into WMA? If
it's
>not a batch process, I'll go crazy sitting around clicking buttons
every 3->7 minutes as each track ends. :p

If you're ultimately stuck going the analogue route...

When I first started ripping mp3s from turntables 5 years ago (and as
far as I know I was the first one to do this - hoardes of people do it
know, but I was an innovator ;) - too bad I didn't somehow profit off of
this)  I would use SoundForge... Bring the connection in via analog (if
you only have a line-in on your sound card), make sure to turn off
output to everything else, and monitor just the line-in for
recording.... Now, play/monitor the source, and adjust the recording
levels so that you peak somewhere around 0... now set it up to record
and go... you're better off breaking up the tracks manually, because
creating a humungous wav file can be memory and disk intensive... If you
really want to record just one file, there are tools that will look for
the breaks, and split it up - I've never used them myself, but I know
they exist....  If you really need, I'll find whatever is currently the
best for you...


There's a handful of tools out there that'll do the whole thing for you
too, if you don't want to use SoundForge (which I recommend)... For
instance, you can just let AudioGrabber sit there and do it all for
you... I have never used it for this purpose myself, but Audiograbber is
a pretty sweet product, so chances are it works pretty good.... I just
never trust anything like that that I don't do by hand...


Anyhow..
Hope that helps...


Ethan J. Brown
East Point Systems, LLC

Ethan J. Brown wrote:

> Errr... Minidisc's are digital... Your minidisc has some sort of digital
> out right? (coax, optical if it's good)  Connect it to the digital in on
> your soundcard ...  Obviously both your minidisc player and your
> computers sound card have to support the same type of digital
> connection...

Right, I didn't mean to make that assertion. My bad. :) I am using digital
out to digital in, but my point was more along the lines of: when you rip
from a CD, the computer can directly read the bits and knows the start and
end of tracks, etc. The recording process right now is a manual one of stop
& start, pause & title.

I was hoping there was a way I could set the recording to just do the whole
Minidisc, and then take a couple minutes (after the 40-60 minutes of
recording are done) to cut it apart. The way I'm doing it now, I have to
give it attention every 3-5 minutes as each track ends, and if I miss it,
then I have to start over and re-record the track. Not exactly efficient or
fun. :-/

I'll go look up Soundforge and see if that'd help me. I'm not worried about
file size. I have 768MB of memory, and about 200 gigs of drive space. :)

Thanks,
Brad

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_cart-factory

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx


-----Original Message-----
From: rmacfadyen [mailto:rmacfadyen@...]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 11:33 PM
To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [OT] Shopping cart

Chris,

I surfed the paypal site but couldn't locate any tech docs on how to
utilize
their shopping cart stuff. Do you have a link?

Regards

Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Sells [mailto:csells@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 7:50 PM
> To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [OT] Shopping cart
>
>
> >> I use PayPal.
> >
> >They have a full cart system, or just payment processing? I'll admit
I've
> >only ever used them to send money to someone... I'll go check their
site and
> >see if I can find anything about a cart service.
>
> They have a cart, too. --Chris
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> win_tech_off_topic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Say, Craig, wasn't it you who leaked handles so badly with your .NET
picture app that Keith had to take it off of his machine? Wasn't that
caused by forgetting to manually Close your bitmap objects? And wouldn't
that have been fixed by DF?

Luckily, most folks are smarter than you (a DevelopMentor instructor and
MIT grad), so I'm sure they won't have any trouble remembering what you
forgot... : )

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Andera [mailto:candera@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:52 AM
To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [OT] (Humor) Joel Spolsky on...

> Humor aside, I mean, he's got a really really good point. C++ is
> complicated, COM is complicated, ATL is complicated. Things
> shouldn't be
> this tough, and .NET helps a lot. When we were pursuing C++
> using ATL, we
> had a hard enough time just finding competent C++
> programmers; we had to
> teach COM and ATL to everyone, and still, they didn't do it very well.

I totally agree. When I teach classes on .NET, I often get some C++ guy
complaining that "sure, the garbage collector thing will work, but it
gets
in my way of doing X" (ahem, Chris). It's interesting that what always
works
is for me is to say, "Sure, *you* know what you're doing, but how many
other
people do?" So basically, C++ programmers as a group admit that we get
caught up on this stuff. As for COM, as for ATL.

>
> Had we been using something like VB, they might've had better
> success...
>

Well, that's an interesting point, too. Yes, we'll be more productive
95% of
the time with high-level environments like VB or .NET. But VB that's
acting
weird is waaaay harder to debug than C++ that's acting weird. With .NET,
we've got an even bigger runtime, and we're yet further removed from the
hardware.

So my guess is that we've made almost everyone more productive most of
the
time, and far less productive some of the time. How does this balance
out? I
would guess that overall we come out ahead. But it also seems like the
importance of having a Really Smart Hacker somewhere in your company has
gone up yet again.

----- Original Message -----

From: Brad Wilson

To: Off Topic Windows

Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:45 PM

Subject: Re: [OT] C++ on Mainframes

Prakash wrote:

> This is really OT hope people dont mind.

OT on an OT list!? How dare you!!! ;)

Kidding. :) I have no relevant mainframe experience, just a jovial sense of
humor. Good luck. :)

Brad



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>
> Say, Craig, wasn't it you who leaked handles so badly with your .NET
> picture app that Keith had to take it off of his machine? Wasn't that
> caused by forgetting to manually Close your bitmap objects?
> And wouldn't
> that have been fixed by DF?

You must be thinking of someone else named Craig Andera. Oh wait, there
aren't any. :p

Yes, this did bite me on the keister. Fortunately, the same thing happened
to Fritz, so I don't feel so bad. As to whether DF would have "fixed", that
depends on whether or not I had the source code for the smart pointer so I
could spend half an hour figuring out what it does. :)

>
> Luckily, most folks are smarter than you (a DevelopMentor
> instructor and
> MIT grad), so I'm sure they won't have any trouble
> remembering what you
> forgot... : )
>

Back-and-forth aside, I agree with you on this one, too, Chris. NDF/GC is
full of issues. Every platform is. On the new platform, people will do
somewhat better most of the time, and lots worse some of the time. Overall,
we probably come out ahead, but we're going to *really* hate life when we
hit problems. Therefore I hang out with people like Mike Woodring and you,
Chris, so I can suck your brains dry, hike my rates, and solve problems for
a living. ;)

Was wondering if someone knows off-hand how to change a dialogs
(CAxDialogImpl) controls properties before showing it...


i.e. I have a dialog with a cancel button
I want to be able to set a property that turns the button on/off
This has to be applied any time the dialog is shown (for example, when
it's displayed modally)

If I can't modify the properties of the control before showing it...
then is there a way that I can override some part of the dialog
creation... so as to send a WM_HIDE message to the control - after the
dialog has been created, but before the dialog has entered it's modal
message loop?

Or is there some other easy method of doing this that I've overlooked...





-e

Hahahaha...

>If I can't modify the properties of the control before showing it...
>then is there a way that I can override some part of the dialog
>creation... so as to send a WM_HIDE message to the control - after the
>dialog has been created, but before the dialog has entered it's modal
>message loop?
>
>Or is there some other easy method of doing this that I've
overlooked...

Uhhh yeah... what about OnInitDialog...

This was a really really really dumb question....

Maybe that Novocain I took when I had my teeth drilled yesterday still
hasn't worn off... ;)


-e

I'm trying to create a shortcut to dialup networking
connecotid. For that I'm trying to get list of item
identifiers but "ParseDisplayName" returns with
0x80070057 (The parameter is incorrect.). As far as i
know I'm passing correct parameter. If any one know
the reason of that please help.

here is the code:

LPITEMIDLIST GetDialUpNetworkingPidl(LPSHELLFOLDER
pDesktop)
{
	 HRESULT        hr;
	 LPITEMIDLIST   pidl = NULL;

	 if(!pDesktop)
	    return NULL;

//get the pidl for MyComputer\\ControlPanel\\
// Dial-Up Networking

hr = pDesktop->ParseDisplayName( NULL,NULL,
OLESTR("::{20D04FE0-3AEA-1069-A2D8-08002B30309D}\\::{21EC2020-3AEA-1069-A2DD-080\
02B30309D}\\::{992CFFA0-F557-101A-88EC-00DD010CCC48}"),
NULL,&pidl,NULL);

// return hr is 0x80070057 (The parameter is
// incorrect. )


thanks,
Satyendra


__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Brad -

>Right, I didn't mean to make that assertion. My bad. :) I am using
digital
>out to digital in, but my point was more along the lines of: when you
rip
>from a CD, the computer can directly read the bits and knows the start
and
>end of tracks, etc. The recording process right now is a manual one of
stop
>& start, pause & title.

I remember my friend got the 'computer' portable Sony minidisc player
(and eventually returned it)... But one of it's features was that you
could connect it to your computer, and it had special software that
would accommodate copying the exact digital files over the wire, in
addition to managing the copying, etc...

Now, the problem as I remember it - with the particular model he had...
Was that it used a serial connector to hook up to his machine... This
was particularly cumbersome, and slow (as we all know serial ports can
be like that)... If I remember correctly, it just annoyed the crap out
of him...

Now I'm just speculating here... but I would think that there are other
3rd party packages for doing the same thing... Ideally, rather than
serial, I would think there would be some sort of USB/Firewire interface
used to control your minidisc device... and software to monitor the
digital in or whatever, and record... (or like my friends, send the
audio over the same connection used to control the device - but that
would require a special device - and at least USB 2.0 or Firewire to be
efficient)

In the very least, so long as your minidisc supports a remote... you
could probably hook up some X10 product to control the minidisc, then
automate the process on your computer...

i.e. start recording -> issue play for programmed playlist on minidisc
(1 track @ a time) -> stop recording

repeat x number of tracks...

>I was hoping there was a way I could set the recording to just do the
whole
>Minidisc, and then take a couple minutes (after the 40-60 minutes of
>recording are done) to cut it apart. The way I'm doing it now, I have
to
>give it attention every 3-5 minutes as each track ends, and if I miss
it,
>then I have to start over and re-record the track. Not exactly
efficient or
>fun. :-/


Well for sure audiograbber [1] can do this much... (and its pretty cheap
for what you get)...


>I'll go look up Soundforge and see if that'd help me. I'm not worried
about
>file size. I have 768MB of memory, and about 200 gigs of drive space.
:)

Soundforge is a bit more expensive, but you get a whole ton of audio
editing power... I guess it all depends on your needs...





Ethan J. Brown
East Point Systems, LLC


[1] http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/

Hi,

Ok, so whilst we're on the subject of mini-disc, my Sony MZ-R50 died
this morning [after 4 years of faithful daily service]. So, i've been
looking at new ones, and am think of the Sony MZ-G750DPC or
MZ-R900DPC, any comments or other recommendations ?

Cheers,
Simon
www.pocketsoap.com

Tuesday, October 30, 2001, 12:16:10 PM, you wrote:

> Brad -

>>Right, I didn't mean to make that assertion. My bad. :) I am using
> digital
>>out to digital in, but my point was more along the lines of: when you
> rip
>>from a CD, the computer can directly read the bits and knows the start
> and
>>end of tracks, etc. The recording process right now is a manual one of
> stop
>>& start, pause & title.

> I remember my friend got the 'computer' portable Sony minidisc player
> (and eventually returned it)... But one of it's features was that you
> could connect it to your computer, and it had special software that
> would accommodate copying the exact digital files over the wire, in
> addition to managing the copying, etc...

> Now, the problem as I remember it - with the particular model he had...
> Was that it used a serial connector to hook up to his machine... This
> was particularly cumbersome, and slow (as we all know serial ports can
> be like that)... If I remember correctly, it just annoyed the crap out
> of him...

> Now I'm just speculating here... but I would think that there are other
> 3rd party packages for doing the same thing... Ideally, rather than
> serial, I would think there would be some sort of USB/Firewire interface
> used to control your minidisc device... and software to monitor the
> digital in or whatever, and record... (or like my friends, send the
> audio over the same connection used to control the device - but that
> would require a special device - and at least USB 2.0 or Firewire to be
> efficient)

> In the very least, so long as your minidisc supports a remote... you
> could probably hook up some X10 product to control the minidisc, then
> automate the process on your computer...

> i.e. start recording -> issue play for programmed playlist on minidisc
> (1 track @ a time) -> stop recording

> repeat x number of tracks...

>>I was hoping there was a way I could set the recording to just do the
> whole
>>Minidisc, and then take a couple minutes (after the 40-60 minutes of
>>recording are done) to cut it apart. The way I'm doing it now, I have
> to
>>give it attention every 3-5 minutes as each track ends, and if I miss
> it,
>>then I have to start over and re-record the track. Not exactly
> efficient or
>>fun. :-/


> Well for sure audiograbber [1] can do this much... (and its pretty cheap
> for what you get)...


>>I'll go look up Soundforge and see if that'd help me. I'm not worried
> about
>>file size. I have 768MB of memory, and about 200 gigs of drive space.
> :)

> Soundforge is a bit more expensive, but you get a whole ton of audio
> editing power... I guess it all depends on your needs...

fwiw: I get the PIDL for dial-up networking using SHGetSpecialFolderLocation(0,CSIDL_CONNECTIONS,&pidl);

Clay.

-----Original Message-----
From: ssada sadas [mailto:satyendragurjar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:40 AM
To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [OT] IShellFolder::ParseDisplayName problem.

I'm trying to create a shortcut to dialup networking
connecotid. For that I'm trying to get list of item
identifiers but "ParseDisplayName" returns with
0x80070057 (The parameter is incorrect.). As far as i
know I'm passing correct parameter. If any one know
the reason of that please help.

here is the code:

LPITEMIDLIST GetDialUpNetworkingPidl(LPSHELLFOLDER
pDesktop)
{
        HRESULT        hr;
        LPITEMIDLIST   pidl = NULL;

        if(!pDesktop)
           return NULL;

//get the pidl for MyComputer\\ControlPanel\\
// Dial-Up Networking

hr = pDesktop->ParseDisplayName( NULL,NULL,
OLESTR("::{20D04FE0-3AEA-1069-A2D8-08002B30309D}\\::{21EC2020-3AEA-1069-A2DD-08002B30309D}\\::{992CFFA0-F557-101A-88EC-00DD010CCC48}"),

NULL,&pidl,NULL);

// return hr is 0x80070057 (The parameter is
// incorrect. )

thanks,
Satyendra

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Simon Fell wrote:

> Ok, so whilst we're on the subject of mini-disc, my Sony MZ-R50 died
> this morning [after 4 years of faithful daily service]. So, i've been
> looking at new ones, and am think of the Sony MZ-G750DPC or
> MZ-R900DPC, any comments or other recommendations ?

I was just at the Sony outlet store (where they sell refurb devices) for
precisely this whole reason (finding one that's PC compatible). Bottom line
was they had the 500-series, which didn't have remote on the headphone
wires, for $139, and the 700-series, which did, for $179 (they also have a
larger display). Both have PC-kits which connect to the USB port.

I'll report my findings on using this device (I got the 500-series) for my
purposes later, as I just walked in the door. FWIW, I've never had a
portable, so this was as good an excuse as any to get one. :)

Brad

I wrote:

> Both have PC-kits which connect to the USB port.

Okay, so what this kit is is an analog input/output system that mimics a
sound card. This is a real PITA to work with, as using it disables your
sound card, so you can't hear anything! I can't imagine anything more lame
than this. Oh well, at least this thing has digital outs that I can run into
my digital inputs on my Live!Drive.

Brad

Hi,

Its probably been 2 years since i've looked at writing MMC snap-ins,
are there any decent tools/libraries for this now, or is still just
the ATL stuff ?

Tx
Simon

You've just kicked over a hornets' nest. The content management space is
rife with free and commercial products. Probably the most popular
commercial product is Vignette, which is a heavy-duty CM system used for
sites like the New York Times. My guess is that you're not willing to
invest millions in keeping track of bits of code, however, so you'll
probably want to know about cheap CM systems. Probably the most popular
of those is called Manila and is available from User Land software. UL
provides hosting for Manila content at [1]. Robert Scoble aka The
Talking Moose uses this software [2].

These free/cheap CM systems are mostly geared towards keeping a daily
web log (called a "blog"). One other popular CM system -- Blogger -- is
available from [3]. Jason Whittington uses this [4].

Another blog by the inventor of blogs (arguably) is managed by Dave
Winer, owner of User Land software [4].

One blog dedicated to blogging in general is called WriteTheWeb [6].
Think of it as a "meta-blog." : )

A new CM system on the horizon is built by the guy -- Joel Spolsky --
who runs one of my favorite blogs [7]. His CM system is called CityDesk
and is currently in beta [8].

I told you that you kicked over a hornets' nest. : )

BTW, I don't use any of these systems. I built my web site long before
any of this was popular and never wanted to move to it. Instead, my
friend Jon Flanders and I designed and built a navigation framework to
wrap my existing HTML content. My framework lets me program my site in
ASP.NET, but write the content in FrontPage (WinWord for the web). Jon
thinks I'm crazy, but it works for me. : )

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx

[1] http://www.manilasites.com/
[2] http://talkingmoose.manilasites.com/
[3] http://www.blogger.com
[4] http://staff.develop.com/jasonw/
[5] http://scriptingnews.com/
[6] http://writetheweb.com/
[7] http://joel.editthispage.com/
[8] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/stories/storyReader$389

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Lynch [mailto:Matt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:52 PM
To: 'Chris Sells'
Subject: RE: [OT] ANN: New web site is up

Hey, quick question on the topic of content management.  I'd like to
build a
site where I can record all the little bits of cool code I've learned.
I
tend to jump from technology to technology, like 3d for a month or 2,
then
networking stuff, and may not return to the subject for maybe a year.
So I
want to write 5 minute guides, not to learn from, merely to refresh my
memory on the subject.  Potentially it could be a big site, so I'd like
to
use some content management system to organise everything.  I haven't
looked
into this too mcuh, and I thought I might ask you if you know of a cool
product.  Do you know what I mean?

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sells [mailto:csells@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2001 3:15 PM
To: 'Matt Lynch'
Subject: RE: [OT] ANN: New web site is up


: )

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Lynch [mailto:Matt@...]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 7:32 PM
To: 'csells@...'
Subject: RE: [OT] ANN: New web site is up

So you want feedback on the content too?  Geez, that's a big ask. ;p

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sells [mailto:csells@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2001 2:09 PM
To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [OT] ANN: New web site is up


You'll have to tangle with my designer about that stuff. : )

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Lynch [mailto:Matt@...]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 4:54 PM
To: 'win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [OT] ANN: New web site is up

Chris - Great web site.  I've got a few suggestions - that is if you
don't
mind.

That graphic at the top is a little distorted, just where the green
lettering starts overlapping.
The colours are cool, and I'd suggest changing one of the words in green
to
the blue or orange that you have displayed on the page.  Remembering to
keep
no more than 5 colours on the page.  Also, the paragraph text would
stand
out a more from the disclaimer if it were a little darker.  A final
suggestion would be to keep the header of the page the same height
throughout the site.  The header on the first page is shorter than the
other
pages.

You've done well!

Matt Lynch

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sells [mailto:csells@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2001 7:37 AM
To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com; Sells Brothers Mailing List
Subject: [OT] ANN: New web site is up


http://www.sellsbrothers.com. Feedback is appreciated.

Chris Sells
http://www.sellsbrothers.com
http://www.develop.com/genx

Hi,

I've been recently looking into this, starting from the samples
in the Platform SDK. Well, it appears that ATL is abstracting away in
template-based classes what the samples in the PDSK advise you to write.

I think that's all there is to it for us. I'm not aware of any other
solutions.

Cheers.
Maxime.


--
if (!good()) break;

Maxime Labelle
mailto:mlabelle@...


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Simon Fell [mailto:sf@...]
> Envoye : mercredi 31 octobre 2001 06:08
> A : win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
> Objet : [OT] MMC Dev
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Its probably been 2 years since i've looked at writing MMC snap-ins,
> are there any decent tools/libraries for this now, or is still just
> the ATL stuff ?
>
> Tx
> Simon
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> win_tech_off_topic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Chris Sells wrote:

> A new CM system on the horizon is built by the guy -- Joel Spolsky --
> who runs one of my favorite blogs [7]. His CM system is called CityDesk
> and is currently in beta [8].

I like CityDesk. A lot. It's like "Gen<X> for web pages". :) (In fact, I
e-mailed him to tell him this, and he was already aware of Gen<X>, but
hasn't used it yet.)

Brad

The ATL stuff from Visual Studio 6.0 has been disavowed and doesn't appear
to have made it into .NET.  Apparently folks have had more luck starting
with the Platform SDK samples Samples\WinMgmt\MMC.

I hear the FCL team couldn't do the MMC 2.0 classes justice in the time
allowed and figured that helping people write 1.1/1.2 vintage snapins
wouldn't be good either.  Several links on Google groups [1]

I have been toying with the prospect of building an MMC framework in C#.
Mostly as an interop exercise.  I've had a bit of a time figuring out where
things should live.

1.  Build a COM object that is the snapin and delegates things to .NET code
2.  Generate assemblies with metadata for MMC interfaces (IComponent(Data),
IConsole, etc.)  and build the snapin "natively" in C#.

I prefer #2 since it seems cleaner but generating my own metadata for the
interfaces has run me down a rat hole trying to generate a tlb from idl.

I'd love to hear how you would approach this (in .NET) :)
Jim

[1]
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=microsoft.public.management.mmc



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Fell [mailto:sf@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 12:08 AM
> To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [OT] MMC Dev
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Its probably been 2 years since i've looked at writing MMC snap-ins,
> are there any decent tools/libraries for this now, or is still just
> the ATL stuff ?
>
> Tx
> Simon
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> win_tech_off_topic-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Wouldn't "Gen<X> for web pages" be ASP? : )  --Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Wilson" <dotnetguy@...>
To: "Off Topic Windows" <win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [OT] ANN: New web site is up


> Chris Sells wrote:
>
> > A new CM system on the horizon is built by the guy -- Joel Spolsky --
> > who runs one of my favorite blogs [7]. His CM system is called CityDesk
> > and is currently in beta [8].
>
> I like CityDesk. A lot. It's like "Gen<X> for web pages". :) (In fact, I
> e-mailed him to tell him this, and he was already aware of Gen<X>, but
> hasn't used it yet.)
>
> Brad

Chris Sells wrote:

> Wouldn't "Gen<X> for web pages" be ASP? : )  --Chris

Let's not confuse ourselves with the facts, okay? ;)

No, seriously, CityDesk is usable by mere mortals, which ASP is not
("mortals" are, of course, people without significant technical skills).

Brad

> The ATL stuff from Visual Studio 6.0 has been disavowed and doesn't appear
> to have made it into .NET.  Apparently folks have had more luck starting
> with the Platform SDK samples Samples\WinMgmt\MMC.

Why not? I still see the atlsnap.h and msdn help has the classes described
in vs.net beta2. It may not be updated, but it's there.

Here are the links to the messages I was referring to:

[1] Comment from MeanGene form MS Support

[2] MSDN Article - MMC: Designing TView, a System Information Viewer MMC
Snap-in: "(Note that the ATL Snap-in Wizard is an obsolete product and is
not supported by Microsoft. If you use it to generate a snap-in, you're on
your own!)

[3] Comparison of Platform SDK based classes and ATL Snapin Wizard.

There are others but you get the drift.  I'm not sure how you interpret "Not
supported" in this context.  It may not matter.

Jim

[1]
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ATL+wizard+supported&hl=en&group=microsoft
.public.management.mmc&rnum=1&selm=cWw1UrRFBHA.286%40cppssbbsa01.microsoft.c
om

[2]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnmag00/htm
l/tview.asp

[3]
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=eeTq6.5712%24sO2.41314%40news1
1-gui.server.ntli.net&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DATL%2Bwizard%2Bsupported%26h
l%3Den%26group%3Dmicrosoft.public.management.mmc%26rnum%3D3%26selm%3DeeTq6.5
712%2524sO2.41314%2540news11-gui.server.ntli.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leon Finker [mailto:leonid.finker@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:07 PM
> To: win_tech_off_topic@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [OT] MMC Dev
>
>
> > The ATL stuff from Visual Studio 6.0 has been disavowed and
> doesn't appear
> > to have made it into .NET.  Apparently folks have had more
> luck starting
> > with the Platform SDK samples Samples\WinMgmt\MMC.
>
> Why not? I still see the atlsnap.h and msdn help has the
> classes described
> in vs.net beta2. It may not be updated, but it's there.
>
>
>
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>

Here's the situation... We're shipping a product that uses an Access
database... The product is currently with approximately 10 beta
testers...

We've overhauled a poor database design, and have replaced it with a new
clean design...

- Existing users with the old database need to be converted to the new
database... This will be performed via some jscript during the install
process...
- New users won't have a previous database to upgrade, they just need a
blank copy of the new database...


So I have a couple of options:


1) Ship the new database with the new table structure in it - copy the
data from the old database over to the new database via SQL SELECT and
INSERT statements...

2) Open the old database, create the new tables on the fly in the old
database, then copy the old data over to the new tables via SQL SELECT
and INSERT statements...

3) Create a new database, and create new tables on the fly... Open the
old database, if there is one, and copy the old data over to the new
database...


To create the tables on the fly (from options 2 & 3), I have two
sub-options:

A) Store CREATE table statements in an external XML document
B) Programatically import an XSD file that has been exported from access
(I actually don't know if you ~can~ do this)


Even though it seems counterintuitive and more work, for some reason, I
like the concept of shipping just a couple of XSD files, a XML config
file, and a generic jscript that creates the database and tables, and
performs the other SQL queries on the fly...

It seems like maintaining a generic script to read a few variables from
a XML config file (DatabaseFileName, XSDFiles, SQLCommands) and execute
SQL commands based on that would be more useful down the road, rather
than shipping just a new access database and writing a custom script per
application... Modify an XSD file, and boom, new table... Modify a SQL
command and boom, different data, etc, etc....


Anyone have any thoughts?


Ethan J. Brown
East Point Systems, LLC