Hi Terry,

I have finished the wireless power transmitter and am ready to try it. Now
I just need a day of decent weather. A neighbor is coming over tomorrow
afternoon to see if we can set it up. I can't carry the thing due to a bad
leg and arm, although it really isn't all that big.

The whole unit is built modular. If my fancy, new tech magnetically
controlled spark gap doesn't perform, it won't be too difficult to replace
it with a static spark gap section.

Everything on this coil is sealed in oil or epoxy, except the spark gap, of
course.

What is the latest prize offering for a working Wardencliffe style wireless
power transmitter? Do I understand there is another prize if it can also
exceed the inverse square law for power transmission?

I'll let you know the results, even if there aren't any.

Dave"

Dave:

      Best of luck and keep us informed.  I'm not aware of a prize stated
in terms of "inverse square law".  The general term is too ambiguous
(not obeyed in the "near field" for example) so in order to be
meaningful it would have to be very explicit in how the results would be
judged.

     Here is my original offer:

  > These authors are vindicating Nikola Tesla's work. The idiots on
  > pupman will soon be eating crow. Once Soljacic succeeds, it will
  > occur to him that he, too, can excite the Earth's electrostatic
  > field and transmit power around the planet with practically zero
  > loss."

As one of those"idiots", I'd like to challenge any true believers to
a bet, namely that those crazy cats will demonstrate their ability to
transmit 10 watts 10 feet at an efficiency of 10% in the next year with
equipment whose dimensions are less than 2 feet at either end of the
link. Any takers? I'll start with a hundred bucks saying they don't.
We can let Terry [pupman] hold the stakes.

Ed

Who has now read their paper more carefully and becoming more set in his
ways."

Terry's:

Go Here:  http://hot-streamer.com/temp/TeslaPrize.pdf

Gary's:

"$100 Wireless Energy Transmission Prize to the first person to
achieve 1% efficiency!

PURPOSE:
To demonstrate the efficiency of Tesla's system,a prize has been
setup up of $100 to be given to the first person to emonstrate a 1%
or greater efficiency in an actual modern working model of Tesla's
Wireless Energy Transmission system.

RULES:
1.No cheating.

2.Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as
being able to fit inside a spherical volume of radius r which is
known and is limited to 0.1 <r <2.0 meters.

3.The transmission distance between the surfaces of the spherical
volumes of the transmitter and receiver must be at least 10 x r .

4.The minimum received power shall be at least 1 watt sustained for
60 seconds.

5.The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10MHz.

6.Ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is allowed but it
must be center grounded to Earth and power ground.The transmitter and
receiver must also be grounded to the Earth and power ground within
the spherical volume.

The above prize is being offered for demonstration of a non-radiative
resonance-based electromagnetic energy transfer system consisting of
a resonant source and resonant receiving device when energy is being
drained from the device to perform operational work.

Another prize should be offered to the first person to acheive non-
radiative energy transfer with an electromagnetic energy transfer
system consisting of a resonant source and resonant receiving device
when energy is not being drained from the receiving device into a
load.

Gary Peterson"

     Again, good luck!  We'd all like your project to be a success but
await numerical results.

Ed

Hi Terry,

I have finished the wireless power transmitter and am ready to try it.  Now
I just need a day of decent weather.  A neighbor is coming over tomorrow
afternoon to see if we can set it up.  I can't carry the thing due to a bad
leg and arm, although it really isn't all that big.

The whole unit is built modular.  If my fancy, new tech magnetically
controlled spark gap doesn't perform, it won't be too difficult to replace
it with a static spark gap section.

Everything on this coil is sealed in oil or epoxy, except the spark gap, of
course.

What is the latest prize offering for a working Wardencliffe style wireless
power transmitter?  Do I understand there is another prize if it can also
exceed the inverse square law for power transmission?

I'll let you know the results, even if there aren't any.


Dave

Hi,

Gary Peterson as another challenge for Wireless transmission using
non-radiative energy transfer.  The rules for his challenge are in the
files section too.

Cheers,

    Terry

Of course,

Electrostatic motors have been around since well before Franklin.
Modern versions are mastered by Oleg Jefimenko along with this key
article in SciAm:

http://www.meridian-int-res.com/Energy/ESMotors.pdf

http://www.as.wvu.edu/coll03/phys/www/OJ/JEFIMENK.HTM

They don't need a transmitter, but they are not going to put out 1
watt either unless the neighborhood is just right:

http://tf.nist.gov/images/radiostations/wwvb-large/ant2.jpg

http://tf.nist.gov/images/radiostations/wwvb-large/ant1.jpg

Of course, the USPTO will patent "anything" now days :o)))

Cheers,

    Terry



--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "David Thomson"
<dwt@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't believe how relevant this patent
> <http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITO
> FF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AN
> D&d=PG01&s1=Correa.IN.&s2=Energy.TTL.&OS=IN/Correa+AND+TTL/Energy
> &RS=IN/Correa+AND+TTL/Energy>  is for this new group.  I'm still
> reading it, but already there is a lot of relevance just in what
> I have read.
>
>
>
> Dave
>

Hi Gary,

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "Gary L.
Peterson" <pete@...> wrote:
>
> --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899"
> <vardan1899@> wrote:
>
> > . . . There are two separate prizes so you can still
> > participate in the other.
>
> I want to be sure that by "the other" you mean the telecommunications
> challenge and not the power transmission challenge.

Oh I see.  I guess you can since it is your challenge and your money
so far.  If anyone else wants to contribute money to that challenge,
they need to be made aware that you are a participant too.

>Actually--in their
> present form--I think it's possible the power transmission challenge
> rules are so restrictive as to make them impossible to fulfill.

Oh!  I thought you might be a top contender.  But maybe you know too
much ;-))

>
> > When you can get a firm set of rules, we could add your
> > prize here if you want.  It might get a little tricky
> > trying to keep track of both, but we'll figure it out ;-))
>
> Thanks.  Another change that has occurred to me is to bring the allowed
> operating frequency range down to 9kHz-190kHz.  I'll create a .pdf of
> the "Telecommunications Challenge" rules and get it to you.

Cool!  I can rework the front page here in the group to show both Prizes.

Cheers,

   Terry

>
> Gary
>

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899"
<vardan1899@...> wrote:

> . . . There are two separate prizes so you can still
> participate in the other.

I want to be sure that by "the other" you mean the telecommunications
challenge and not the power transmission challenge.  Actually--in their
present form--I think it's possible the power transmission challenge
rules are so restrictive as to make them impossible to fulfill.

> When you can get a firm set of rules, we could add your
> prize here if you want.  It might get a little tricky
> trying to keep track of both, but we'll figure it out ;-))

Thanks.  Another change that has occured to me is to bring the allowed
operating frequency range down to 9kHz-190kHz.  I'll create a .pdf of
the "Telecommunications Challenge" rules and get it to you.

Gary

Hi,

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "Gary L.
Peterson" <pete@...> wrote:
>
> --- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, Ed Phillips
> <evp2@> wrote:
> >
> >     Are you offering the prize?
>
> Yes, I'll put up $100 provided I'm not excluded from participation in
> Challenge #2.  I don't want to be a judge.

That's fine.  There are two separate prizes so you can still
participate in the other.

>
> > . . . you need to restate the conditions as there's no
> > specification of the amount of power to be communicated. . . .
>
> There is no minimum power transfer requirement . . . , just whatever is
> required to activate a detector, sensitive device, or other receiving
> instrument.  Amplification, regeneration, heterodyning, and/or any
> other receiving technique that might be developed is allowed.

Collins R-390 receiver with the Tesla coil receiver as an "antenna" is
my idea ;-)  Probably have to shield the radio and all so one the
Tesla coil part can pickup signals.

>
> > . . . and [give] a definition of "non-radiative energy transfer".
>
> By non-radiative energy transfer I mean energy transfer that does not
> involve transverse electromagnetic waves or "radio waves" as defined in
> the narrowest sense of the terms, i.e., far-field electromagnetic waves
> that have completely closed back upon themselves with their E- and H-
> field components in phase, and are no longer associated with the
> launching structure.  It must be demonstrated that "radio waves" are
> not involved with the transmission of energy between the transmitting
> and receiving stations by using a radio antenna and receiver capable of
> detecting only radio waves.  The radio-wave receiving antenna must be
> configured in such a way so that it interacts only with radio waves and
> not with the non-radiative component of the Tesla coil transmitter's
> emanations.  The radio-wave antenna cannot be grounded.  The low height
> counterpoise antenna is disallowed because of its susceptiblity to
> grounding due to capacitive coupling.  Vertical 1/2-wave dipole with or
> without loading coils, air loop, and tuned ferrite loop-stick antennas
> suspended high above the ground are acceptable.
>
> > . . . the "commissioner of the prize" can set any
> > rules he wants!
>
> I've decided to adjust the minimum transmission distance to up 100 x
> lambda and adjust it back down should that prove to be too difficult.

When you can get a firm set of rules, we could add your prize here if
you want.  It might get a little tricky trying to keep track of both,
but we'll figure it out ;-))

Sounds fun!!

Cheers,

    Terry


>
> Gary
>

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, Ed Phillips
<evp2@...> wrote:
>
>     Are you offering the prize?

Yes, I'll put up $100 provided I'm not excluded from participation in
Challenge #2.  I don't want to be a judge.

> . . . you need to restate the conditions as there's no
> specification of the amount of power to be communicated. . . .

There is no minimum power transfer requirement . . . , just whatever is
required to activate a detector, sensitive device, or other receiving
instrument.  Amplification, regeneration, heterodyning, and/or any
other receiving technique that might be developed is allowed.

> . . . and [give] a definition of "non-radiative energy transfer".

By non-radiative energy transfer I mean energy transfer that does not
involve transverse electromagnetic waves or "radio waves" as defined in
the narrowest sense of the terms, i.e., far-field electromagnetic waves
that have completely closed back upon themselves with their E- and H-
field components in phase, and are no longer associated with the
launching structure.  It must be demonstrated that "radio waves" are
not involved with the transmission of energy between the transmitting
and receiving stations by using a radio antenna and receiver capable of
detecting only radio waves.  The radio-wave receiving antenna must be
configured in such a way so that it interacts only with radio waves and
not with the non-radiative component of the Tesla coil transmitter's
emanations.  The radio-wave antenna cannot be grounded.  The low height
counterpoise antenna is disallowed because of its susceptiblity to
grounding due to capacitive coupling.  Vertical 1/2-wave dipole with or
without loading coils, air loop, and tuned ferrite loop-stick antennas
suspended high above the ground are acceptable.

> . . . the "commissioner of the prize" can set any
> rules he wants!

I've decided to adjust the minimum transmission distance to up 100 x
lambda and adjust it back down should that prove to be too difficult.

Gary

It doesn't seem reasonable to limit this competition to just those
who are interested in wireless power transmission; Tesla was working
in the area of wireless telecommunications too.

I propose that a prize be offered to the first qualifying person to
acheive non-radiative EM energy transfer with a system consisting of
a resonant source and resonant receiving device when energy is not
being drained from the receiving device into a load.

$____.___ Wireless Energy Transmission Prize to the first person to
achieve non-radiative EM energy transmission to a distance of 10 or
more wavelengths!

PURPOSE:
To demonstrate the efficacy of Tesla's system a prize of $____.___
has been setup up, to be given to the first person to demonstrate the
non-radiative transmission of electromagnetic energy to a distance of
10 or more times the free space wavelength (lambda) of the operating
frequency using a working model of Tesla's Wireless Energy
Transmission system.

The prize is being offered under the following Rules to the first
person acheiving non-radiative energy transfer with an
electromagnetic energy transfer system consisting of a resonant
source and resonant receiving device when energy is not being drained
from the receiving device into a load.

RULES:
1. The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10 MHz.

2. Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as
being able to fit inside a vertical cylindrical volume the height and
diameter of which are limited to .02 x lambda.

3. The transmission distance will be measured between the vertical
center line of the transmitter and that of the receiver, and must be
at least 10 x lambda.

4. The detected energy shall be observed for a period of at 60
seconds or more, with 50% duty cycle and be demonstrated to originate
from the source by 20 or more interruptions of the transmitted signal.

5. A ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is not allowed.

6. The transmitter and receiver must grounded to the Earth within the
cylindrical volume.

7. Neither the transmitting element nor the receiving element may be
connected to any common power utility ground network"

Gary:

     Are you offering the prize?  If so you need to restate the
conditions as there's no specification of the amount of power to be
communicated or a definition of "non-radiative energy transfer".  The
latter, as discussed in the MIT paper that started this, is simply
inductive (or capacitive) coupling between two tuned circuits and if the
desired result would be detection of signals produced by modest
transmitter powers  it would be easy to demonstrate under your stated
conditions.  Of course, the "commissioner of the prize" can set any
rules he wants!


Ed

Hi Gary,

>
> I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about.  Would you
> care to try again?
>
> Gary
>

I thought you were wondering about "odd" efficiency situations.

You just made a new post though, so let me read it...

I see now, you mean have a prize for "radio" (Tesla's style of
"radio") too.  So not a power transfer, but a communications thing...

That would have to be a "different" thing all together.  It would be
too messy to add to this present prize.  Although, the winner of this
prize should be all set for what you are talking about too.

If you want, you can make a set of rules and put up some prize money
for that too.

Cheers,

    Terry

It doesn't seem reasonable to limit this competition to just those
who are interested in wireless power transmission; Tesla was working
in the area of wireless telecommunications too.

I propose that a prize be offered to the first qualifying person to
acheive non-radiative EM energy transfer with a system consisting of
a resonant source and resonant receiving device when energy is not
being drained from the receiving device into a load.

$____.___ Wireless Energy Transmission Prize to the first person to
achieve non-radiative EM energy transmission to a distance of 10 or
more wavelengths!

PURPOSE:
To demonstrate the efficacy of Tesla's system a prize of $____.___
has been setup up, to be given to the first person to demonstrate the
non-radiative transmission of electromagnetic energy to a distance of
10 or more times the free space wavelength (lambda) of the operating
frequency using a working model of Tesla's Wireless Energy
Transmission system.

The prize is being offered under the following Rules to the first
person acheiving non-radiative energy transfer with an
electromagnetic energy transfer system consisting of a resonant
source and resonant receiving device when energy is not being drained
from the receiving device into a load.

RULES:
1. The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10 MHz.

2. Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as
being able to fit inside a vertical cylindrical volume the height and
diameter of which are limited to .02 x lambda.

3. The transmission distance will be measured between the vertical
center line of the transmitter and that of the receiver, and must be
at least 10 x lambda.

4. The detected energy shall be observed for a period of at 60
seconds or more, with 50% duty cycle and be demonstrated to originate
from the source by 20 or more interruptions of the transmitted signal.

5. A ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is not allowed.

6. The transmitter and receiver must grounded to the Earth within the
cylindrical volume.

7. Neither the transmitting element nor the receiving element may be
connected to any common power utility ground network.

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899"
<vardan1899@...> wrote:
>
> The "minimum" efficiency needed is 1%.  If one gets 10%, 50%, 101%,
> 10,000%...  that is fine too!
>
> Tesla's system uses a transmitter and receiver.  The efficiency is
> power out / power in.  If your transmitter uses 10 watts and the
> receiver gets 100W, then e = 100 / 10 or 1000% and you win!!  Your
> receiver does not need to load down the transmitter.
>
> Over unity is not a problem here as long as it works.  "I" think it
> might be "harder" :o) but if you can make it work, it's fine.  It
> would also win a number of other prizes then too!!
>
> Cheers,
>
>    Terry - I mean Vardan ;-)

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about.  Would you
care to try again?

Gary

Gary wrote,

.....
> Another prize should be offered to the first person to achieve non-
> radiative energy transfer with an electromagnetic energy transfer
> system consisting of a resonant source and resonant receiving device
> when energy is not being drained from the receiving device into a
> load.
>
> Gary Peterson

The "minimum" efficiency needed is 1%.  If one gets 10%, 50%, 101%,
10,000%...  that is fine too!

Tesla's system uses a transmitter and receiver.  The efficiency is
power out / power in.  If your transmitter uses 10 watts and the
receiver gets 100W, then e = 100 / 10 or 1000% and you win!!  Your
receiver does not need to load down the transmitter.

Over unity is not a problem here as long as it works.  "I" think it
might be "harder" :o) but if you can make it work, it's fine.  It
would also win a number of other prizes then too!!

Cheers,

    Terry - I mean Vardan ;-)

Hi Dave,


> I didn't say anything about not delivering sustained power.  I
> said the 1 watt minimum seemed to high.

1 watt is easy to measure.  At 1% a 100W transmitter is on the low
side of most equipment people will have.  I suspect most transmitters
will run in the 300 - 1500W range for at least 3 to 15 watts received.

> In Tesla's design, the low loss claim only applies in a closed
> system, such as when the transmitter is powerful enough to
> resonate the planet, or if the unit is installed inside, and
> grounded to, a faraday cage or some other material that provides
> a boundary for the E field.
>
> In Soljacic's design, the power transmitted is the difference in
> amplitude of the two resonators minus the distance factor.
>
> Someday Soljacic's technology might advance to transmit large
> power supplies, but that is not the immediate goal.  The
> immediate goal is to prove the technology.  Since nobody will
> build a Tesla-sized resonator, and two Soljacic-sized resonators
> will have minimum power requirements of their own, you either
> need to change the grounding rules, or lower the power rule.

Such details are left to the builder to solve...


> Perhaps the grounding rule can be changed such that the ground
> plane of the transmitter is not considered part of the
> transmitter, but as part of the environment (which it technically
> is).

The Earth ground really is "ground" and is not part of the Spherical
volume requirement...  I suppose someone could cover the floor with
foil if that helps.

>Thus a winning unit might have aluminum sheets mounted on
> the wall, which are connected to the ground of the transmitter,
....

The walls and ceiling are not "ground".


> > >The concept as presented by Soljacic is not
> > > necessarily limited to that high of a power.


If he cannot get to 1W, he is not going to win the prize...

> It would be rather unfair if someone succeeded in transmitting
> useable energy according to the distance rule, but was unable to
> push it over 1 watt.

I guess they would have to push it harder to win...


...>Anything over 1 watt gets 100% of the
> prize, while 60 milliwatts will get 10% and anything in between
> is prorated.  This allows for 5mA at 12V power transmission,
> which is probably the minimum practical current and potential for
> commercial appeal.  At 60mW a cell phone could be recharged in 20
> hours.

The level IS "1 watt".  The prize IS "all or nothing"...

....
....
...
....
....
....
> Be straight with me, have you ever tried to transmit power via a
> Tesla coil before?

Yes.  It did not work very well...

Cheers,

    Vardan

>
> Dave
>

PURPOSE:
To demonstrate the efficiency of Tesla's system,a prize has been
setup up of $100 to be given to the first person to emonstrate a 1%
or greater efficiency in an actual modern working model of Tesla's
Wireless Energy Transmission system.

RULES:
1.No cheating.

2.Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as
being able to fit inside a spherical volume of radius r which is
known and is limited to 0.1 <r <2.0 meters.

3.The transmission distance between the surfaces of the spherical
volumes of the transmitter and receiver must be at least 10 x r .

4.The minimum received power shall be at least 1 watt sustained for
60 seconds.

5.The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10MHz.

6.Ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is allowed but it
must be center grounded to Earth and power ground.The transmitter and
receiver must also be grounded to the Earth and power ground within
the spherical volume.

The above prize is being offered for demonstration of a non-radiative
resonance-based electromagnetic energy transfer system consisting of
a resonant source and resonant receiving device when energy is being
drained from the device to perform operational work. "

     These are the rules of THIS particular contest; they are
unambiguous.  If anyone wants to conduct a different one according to
HIS rules he's free to do so.

Ed

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "vardan1899"
<vardan1899@...> wrote:

> I started a little group just for this so the other groups will not
be bothered.  Let me know if something does not sound reasonable.

$100 Wireless Energy Transmission Prize to the first person to
achieve 1% efficiency!

PURPOSE:
To demonstrate the efficiency of Tesla's system,a prize has been
setup up of $100 to be given to the first person to emonstrate a 1%
or greater efficiency in an actual modern working model of Tesla's
Wireless Energy Transmission system.

RULES:
1.No cheating.

2.Both the transmitter and receiver shall have a size defined as
being able to fit inside a spherical volume of radius r which is
known and is limited to 0.1 <r <2.0 meters.

3.The transmission distance between the surfaces of the spherical
volumes of the transmitter and receiver must be at least 10 x r .

4.The minimum received power shall be at least 1 watt sustained for
60 seconds.

5.The operating frequency shall be between 1 Hz and 10MHz.

6.Ground wire between the transmitter and receiver is allowed but it
must be center grounded to Earth and power ground.The transmitter and
receiver must also be grounded to the Earth and power ground within
the spherical volume.

The above prize is being offered for demonstration of a non-radiative
resonance-based electromagnetic energy transfer system consisting of
a resonant source and resonant receiving device when energy is being
drained from the device to perform operational work.

Another prize should be offered to the first person to acheive non-
radiative energy transfer with an electromagnetic energy transfer
system consisting of a resonant source and resonant receiving device
when energy is not being drained from the receiving device into a
load.

Gary Peterson

Hi Vardan,

> > It doesn't seem right that there should be a 1 watt minimum
for
> > 60 seconds.
>
> Whaaaaa...!!!!  "Can't deliver" NO "sustained power"!!!??

I didn't say anything about not delivering sustained power.  I
said the 1 watt minimum seemed to high.

You've got one of two possibilities for circuit design.  Either
there is one active resonator (transmitter) and one passive
resonator (receiver) as in Tesla's design, or you have two active
resonators as in Soljacic's design.

In Tesla's design, the low loss claim only applies in a closed
system, such as when the transmitter is powerful enough to
resonate the planet, or if the unit is installed inside, and
grounded to, a faraday cage or some other material that provides
a boundary for the E field.

In Soljacic's design, the power transmitted is the difference in
amplitude of the two resonators minus the distance factor.

Someday Soljacic's technology might advance to transmit large
power supplies, but that is not the immediate goal.  The
immediate goal is to prove the technology.  Since nobody will
build a Tesla-sized resonator, and two Soljacic-sized resonators
will have minimum power requirements of their own, you either
need to change the grounding rules, or lower the power rule.

Perhaps the grounding rule can be changed such that the ground
plane of the transmitter is not considered part of the
transmitter, but as part of the environment (which it technically
is).  Thus a winning unit might have aluminum sheets mounted on
the wall, which are connected to the ground of the transmitter,
and the passive receiver is in between them.  The receiver cannot
be directly connected to the transmitter's ground plane (cables
and aluminum sheets) but both can be connected to common Earth
ground.  This enables the builder to overcome the need for
building a humongous tower and running into trouble with the
world's governments.

> >The concept as presented by Soljacic is not
> > necessarily limited to that high of a power.
>
> Laptop computers can literally "burn one's gonads off" per
those
> other "news stories"...  They need like 20W minimum just to run

> "idle"...

Only if the battery is made with lithium.  Well, you could
intentionally try to hurt your gonads by intentionally exploding
a NiCad battery, but who's going to try that?

It would be rather unfair if someone succeeded in transmitting
useable energy according to the distance rule, but was unable to
push it over 1 watt.  This is a wireless energy transmission
challenge, not an Alarming Randi "jump over a very high hurdle"
challenge.

Look at it this way, if the technology is proven for 60
milliwatts, it has commercial appeal.  If it has commercial
appeal, then why wouldn't it be eligible for a prize?  Maybe we
could graduate the prize?  Anything over 1 watt gets 100% of the
prize, while 60 milliwatts will get 10% and anything in between
is prorated.  This allows for 5mA at 12V power transmission,
which is probably the minimum practical current and potential for
commercial appeal.  At 60mW a cell phone could be recharged in 20
hours.

We could also prorate the prize award over time.  A 1+W
transmitter/receiver will receive 100% of the prize right away.
A 60mW transmitter/receiver will receive the prize 1 year from
the submission date, and the rest is prorated.  This gives others
the opportunity to improve on the technology and break the 1W
barrier.  But if nobody succeeds, then the best successful effort
should receive the appropriate reward for their effort.

Check this out:
http://windupradio.com/FPFreeCharge.htm

It is a hand crank battery charger for a cell phone.  You can
also use it with a 12v power port.  It only puts out 1.3 watts of
charging power.

I agree with the intent of your offer that breaking the 1W
barrier will be difficult in the beginning.  Nevertheless, it is
the practical application of the technology that is the purpose
of this challenge, not mocking people by setting high hurdles (I
hope).

> We need "REAL POWER" in "REAL TIME"!!!  Like, ya can't do "just
1%"....

60mW is real power in real time.  It is also more realistic.

> That is NOT!!! what "Tesla's idea" meant!!!!  "Other" "crap
ideas" are
> not allowed!!!  Tesla's patents and ideas are "very clear" on
the
> "method"!!!

The issue isn't whether Tesla was clear, but whether the rules
are clear.  It sounds tedious, but you really need to spell
things out clearly when money is involved.  When money is
involved, your offer can be considered a legal binding contract
and subject to legal action.  Remember the story of the lawyer
who insured expensive cigars for fire damage and then smoked
them?

> > By specifying non-radiative transmission within the E field,
you
> > also eliminate highly efficient wind fans, directed antennas,
and
> > guarantee your hundred bucks will bring you what you are
looking
> > for.
>
> What!!!... "Can't do it" like "Tesla said" it "could be
done"...  ;-)))
>
> I am sure you could get a far more "modern directional
microwave or
> laser beam" thing to do it...  But that has "zero" to do with
"Tesla's
> concept"...  You know...  NO CHEATING....  Do it ""RIGHT""!!!!

Your 1Hz to 10MHz rule eliminates microwaves and lasers, but it
does not eliminate directional antennas and fans.  Just because
you, I, and others have done research on Tesla's work and
understand the unspoken rules does not mean a bunch of high
school or college students will.  There might actually be a
stereotype blonde who discovers the challenge.  What will you do
then if "wireless" is misinterpreted and they present a steam
engine with a 10r PTO shaft and generator?

"No cheating" is not a legal term if it is not defined in the
contract (rules).

> > Also, will it count if someone builds an efficient Tesla coil
> > with long streamers?  The streamers could electrostatically
> > charge a ball 10r distance away, which could be used as a
power
> > source.
>
> Tesla's system did NOT use direct steamer connects... so
"NO"...  Do
> it just like "Tesla said it should be done"...  No weaseling
;-))

That's fine, but it needs to be clear in the rules.

> I avoid the "Terry" since this is not a "Terry thing"...

Are you saying you are a closet Tesla nut?  I have known all
along that you were, and probably others have suspected it as
well.  I wouldn't be surprised if all the hardliners on pupman
have their own "mad scientist" side, which they are trying to
hide from others.

Be straight with me, have you ever tried to transmit power via a
Tesla coil before?

Dave

Hi Dave,

Yahoo group updates are "slow.."  But my replay, as in that distorted
time frame tonight, follows ;-))

--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "David Thomson"
<dwt@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Terry,
>>
> It doesn't seem right that there should be a 1 watt minimum for
> 60 seconds.

Whaaaaa...!!!!  "Can't deliver" NO "sustained power"!!!??

>The concept as presented by Soljacic is not
> necessarily limited to that high of a power.

Laptop computers can literally "burn one's gonads off" per those other
"news stories"...  They need like 20W minimum just to run "idle"...

There is an "energy vs. power" "sub debate" too...  We can deliver "50
watts for 1 second" 'given' "50 years of charging" thing...

DAMN WEENIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

We need that power "RIGHT NOW" "REAL TIME"!!!  "NO screwing around"!!!

No "energy storage for 50 years" to "deliver 1watt for 1 second"
"stored up" CRAP!!!

>If power can be
> transmitted to charge a battery, and the battery can do useful
> work after 30 minutes of charging, then that should be acceptable
> as a successful power transmission.  For example, if there is
> enough charge to run a cell phone for 24 hours, then wireless
> transmission has been accomplished.

No...  We are "NOT" talking "stored energy over ten years to supply
use to a phone for ten seconds b**l S**t...

We need "REAL POWER" in "REAL TIME"!!!  Like, ya can't do "just 1%"....

>
> I think it is fair to limit the power transmission to
> non-radiative transmission within the E field.  That seems to be
> a key element presented by Soljacic.
>
> Your rules allow for a wireless transmission system where someone
> could put a plunger in a tank of water and transmit the power
> mechanically through water molecules.

That is NOT!!! what "Tesla's idea" meant!!!!  "Other" "crap ideas" are
not allowed!!!  Tesla's patents and ideas are "very clear" on the
"method"!!!

>
> By specifying non-radiative transmission within the E field, you
> also eliminate highly efficient wind fans, directed antennas, and
> guarantee your hundred bucks will bring you what you are looking
> for.

What!!!... "Can't do it" like "Tesla said" it "could be done"...  ;-)))

I am sure you could get a far more "modern directional microwave or
laser beam" thing to do it...  But that has "zero" to do with "Tesla's
concept"...  You know...  NO CHEATING....  Do it ""RIGHT""!!!!


>
> Also, will it count if someone builds an efficient Tesla coil
> with long streamers?  The streamers could electrostatically
> charge a ball 10r distance away, which could be used as a power
> source.

Tesla's system did NOT use direct steamer connects... so "NO"...  Do
it just like "Tesla said it should be done"...  No weaseling ;-))

Cheers,

   Vardan...

I avoid the "Terry" since this is not a "Terry thing"...


>
> Dave
>

Hi Dave,

Do "you" want to be on the judging committee too???  Maybe "you" could
"balance" "me" "out" ;-))))

I really hope to get a "lot" of "judges"...  "I" would really like to
"bow out" of the "judging thing" myself, since "I" am a prize
"investor" (the "only one" so far)...  But somebody has to "get this
SOB started"...

Hopefully, there will be a money pool and an "independent" judging
panel to distribute it...

I'll just "draft" you ;-))  I can't deliver money unless I get "over"
50% of judges approval,  Since "you" are now the other 50%...

"Investor money" might be an "initial concern", but if others are
willing to take the "judging lode", we can back off there very
easily!!  What ever it takes to make the "judging thing" "fair" is
super fine!!!

I sort of think "somebody" will "bust their nads" to get the prize, so
the reward winner will be "obvious"...

Cheers,

   Terry



--- In wireless_energy_transmission@yahoogroups.com, "David Thomson"
<dwt@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Terry,
>
> > If there is an "early" win, we might have to go to phase two
> ;-))  Be
> > cool when we get to 1W in gets 2W out :o))))
>
> Let's play clean, now.  No changing things to a free energy
> pursuit, or even instigating such a topic at this point.  This is
> strictly wireless energy transmission.
>
> Dave
>

Hi Terry,

It doesn't seem right that there should be a 1 watt minimum for
60 seconds.  The concept as presented by Soljacic is not
necessarily limited to that high of a power.  If power can be
transmitted to charge a battery, and the battery can do useful
work after 30 minutes of charging, then that should be acceptable
as a successful power transmission.  For example, if there is
enough charge to run a cell phone for 24 hours, then wireless
transmission has been accomplished.

I think it is fair to limit the power transmission to
non-radiative transmission within the E field.  That seems to be
a key element presented by Soljacic.

Your rules allow for a wireless transmission system where someone
could put a plunger in a tank of water and transmit the power
mechanically through water molecules.

By specifying non-radiative transmission within the E field, you
also eliminate highly efficient wind fans, directed antennas, and
guarantee your hundred bucks will bring you what you are looking
for.

Also, will it count if someone builds an efficient Tesla coil
with long streamers?  The streamers could electrostatically
charge a ball 10r distance away, which could be used as a power
source.

Dave

Hi Terry,

> If there is an "early" win, we might have to go to phase two
;-))  Be
> cool when we get to 1W in gets 2W out :o))))

Let's play clean, now.  No changing things to a free energy
pursuit, or even instigating such a topic at this point.  This is
strictly wireless energy transmission.

Dave

It looks like a "GO"!!!!  9:00 AM Mountain time Nov. 18 (USA)...

The prize money may increase without notice :-))) As new "investors"
come on, like Lotto, the prize money may increase...

Judging is is a bit of a problem still...

If there are a lot of "investors", they could vote the winner...

If not, the yahoo "polls" thing here might be able to "vote in" a
winner...

"I" want to avoid the "conflict of interest" thing ;-)))

If there is an "early" win, we might have to go to phase two ;-))  Be
cool when we get to 1W in gets 2W out :o))))

Cheers,

Vardan

Hi Terry,

I couldn't turn this list down.  I don't know how much I can
participate at the moment due to lack of funds, but I would love to be
in on the discussions.

Dave

Hi,

This should be fun!  Like the Xprize or that old airplane prize...  We
should have a Wireless Transmission of Energy Prize!!

http://hot-streamer.com/temp/TeslaPrize.pdf

Rules are also in the "files" here in the group.

Let me know if something does not sound reasonable.  I started a
little group just for this so the other groups will not be bothered.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/wireless_energy_transmission/

I sort of stole/expanded the idea Ed mentioned...

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/usa-tesla/message/22290

Lets put up a prize for some "real" results!!  Those MIT guys "might"
be way ahead of the game already since they don't know better :o))

I guess I am the only judge right now, but if others wish to put up
prize cash too, we can have a judging committee!!

Cheers,

	 Vardan