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vodafone and novarra   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #25383 of 31577 |
Re: vodafone and novarra

> Is dotMobi on developers' side? yes or no?

Yes.

Developers are a neglected constituency in the mobile ecosystem. That's
why we're working hard on creating http://dev.mobi, http://ready.mobi,
etc. (Over 4,000 developers can't be wrong :-) )

A critical mass of content is required to start the cogs of the mobile
web turning, and it's still too hard to create great sites. In our own
way, we're trying to democratise and demystify mobile development.


OK. But where does that leave Vodafone? Not so simple :-)

First I'll say, I suspect they genuinely thought they could also help
kick-start the mobile web.

I don't know for sure, but I imagine that Vodafone's logic went
something like this:


1. the data tariff is flattening

2. users are going to go on-line en masse

3. we can't educate them quickly enough that they should use
made-for-mobile sites (and perhaps there aren't enough of those sites
yet anyway)

4. so they will go to not-made-for-mobile-sites, whether we want them
to or not

5. and when they have a poor experience, they won't return - to any
type of site


I believe Vodafone's investment in dotMobi is designed to address point
3. We help identify made-for-mobile sites with the .mobi address, and
help developer build those sites (whether they use the that domain or
not).

And I guess Vodafone's transcoding project is designed to address point
5. "At the very least, let's provide a safety net so that people who
attempt to visit crazy not-for-mobile sites have at least a sensible
mobile experience".

(One could even see this as being a stop-gap until made-for-mobile URLs
are as colloquial as not-made-for-mobile URLs.)

And actually, I personally think this logic holds up.


But - and it's a very big BUT - logic is one thing, implementation is
another. Masking the user-agent and leaving no clues seems wholly
unnecessary. The transcoding itself has been very buggy (with images in
particular I believe). And not telling content providers ahead-of-time
so they could prepare has been revealed as a huge mistake.

So, yes. For me, the jury is still out. But I also know that little can
never be changed.


I feel a little like a negotiator for the United Nations here, but I
would add one final point. The more bellicose, and less constructive,
the mobile ecosystem becomes towards itself, the less likely it is that
any of us will see it succeed.

I agree that standardisation is a painstaking process. But it is
necessary. However, holy wars are not the only other alternative :-)


Best regards,
James

James Pearce
CTO
http://mtld.mobi



Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:08 pm

kuriuskat2001
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Message #25383 of 31577 |
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... resides. ... Same thinking here, except I havn't thought of the 406 error. I think that works too. The gist is to ask them to leave the incoming User-Agent...
nigelchoi
Offline Send Email
Sep 18, 2007
4:38 pm

... Yes. Developers are a neglected constituency in the mobile ecosystem. That's why we're working hard on creating http://dev.mobi, http://ready.mobi, etc....
James Pearce
kuriuskat2001
Offline Send Email
Sep 22, 2007
6:51 pm

Hi James, There is also another explanation to Vodafone UK's behavior: Operators think their subscribers are theirs and theirs only, and they do not want to...
passani@...
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Sep 22, 2007
7:10 pm

Luca or anyone else.... Anyone know if removing the User-Agent string is unique to the Vodafone implementation? Or, is this being aspect of the implementation...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Sep 23, 2007
1:37 pm

... Did you try Google's transcoder? http://www.google.com/gwt/n?u=t.wurfl.com I am unsure if the transcoder is fired up by default when you search from...
Andrea Trasatti
mith_y
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Sep 23, 2007
3:10 pm

Hi Andrea, Yes, and blogged about it here, "An Open Letter to Google: "Page adapted for mobile phone?" Please stop now, you are crippling sites, not adapting...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Sep 23, 2007
3:49 pm

I have an update on this and I think it's great news! Special thanks to Sean for the replies on a Sunday. If you add to your web version the following the GWT...
Andrea Trasatti
mith_y
Offline Send Email
Sep 23, 2007
6:49 pm

@Sean (Andrea is Sean on this list?) I read the following on the Betavine Forum: http://www.vodafonebetavine.net/web/guest/forums/message_boards/message/478 ...
David Harper
engagelogic
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Sep 23, 2007
7:48 pm

... I don't know if Sean is on the list, I asked. I'll try to be a good proxy in case he's not. :) That message from Betavine surprised me, I have to admit. I...
Andrea Trasatti
mith_y
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Sep 23, 2007
10:17 pm

People, I just replied to something Sean rowen of google said on the betavine forum; ...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
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Sep 23, 2007
10:41 pm

Wow, I leave you guys for one month to check out India and my mailbox asplodes with vodafone discussion. Now I've been reading up a bit - including the forum...
Marten van Wezel
wmlprogramming@...
Send Email
Sep 24, 2007
7:15 am

Yes. By default. David...
David Harper
engagelogic
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Sep 23, 2007
3:52 pm

H3G italy has also been running novarra for a few months at least, but they did nit touch the User-Agent string. The service was offered as best-effort attempt...
passani@...
luca_passani
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Sep 23, 2007
4:47 pm

Faux-Pax Vodafone http://www.semapedia.org/wordpress/ This part especially for those who ponder possible motives... "All of their justifications (transcoding...
David Harper
engagelogic
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Sep 23, 2007
5:06 pm

who wrote this? they may want to add their signature to my rant... Luca...
passani@...
luca_passani
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Sep 23, 2007
5:30 pm

Got a chance to play a bit with Novarra as installed at Vodafone UK. I tried a couple of popular italian sites (just to make sure that I wouldn't get anything...
passani@...
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Sep 23, 2007
7:34 pm

Transcoding was a half-way decent notion several years ago as a stop gap measure but IMO does more harm then good today. The notion of wholesale transcoding of...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Sep 23, 2007
8:23 pm
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