Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
wmlprogramming · WML,XHTML,WURFL & Mobile-related stuff
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want to share photos of your group with the world? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
W3C fuckers in action   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #28890 of 31749 |
Usability of transcoded services

Breaking this one into a separate thread...

On 26 Oct 2008, at 17:23, Luca Passani wrote:

> One thing to consider is that transcoding has been often introduced
> together with much discounted and/or flat data plans, which in
> itself is
> a great incentive for people to start using the mobile web or suing
> it more.

Yeah, that's true - and I guess improvements in devices could also be
seen as a factor as well (partic. looking at stats for iPhone web
usage, but I'd guess that even S60 etc tend to drive more online use).

> Anyway, I know of mobile websites which have seen their traffic from
> an
> operator drop down of up to 40% when a transcoder was introduced by
> that
> operator. The problem was that, in spite of the fact that the
> transcoder
> was a pass-through for that site, there was still a delay being
> introduced. A lot of users could not be bothered with the extra wait
> and
> they simply stopped using the service or simply used it less.


That's interesting. Any chance of getting some more data and details
to post here? I hadn't considered the effect that adding a proxy might
have on sites which the proxy lets through without alteration.

And anyone got any references for the usability of fixed web services
transcoded to a mobile version? For some apps (e.g. banking) I've
heard of end-users struggling with a desktop experience accessed
through a smartphone - because the value of having access to online
banking is so great. How about some objective stats on the quality of
transcoded desktop experiences?

--
Future Platforms Ltd
e: Tom.Hume@...
t: +44 (0) 1273 819038
m: +44 (0) 7971 781422
company: www.futureplatforms.com
personal: tomhume.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:27 pm

twhume
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #28890 of 31749 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

... Jose I think there are two separate things here: whether a user should receive a transcoded experience at all, and whether they should be alerted as to...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
2:12 pm

Breaking this one into a separate thread... ... Yeah, that's true - and I guess improvements in devices could also be seen as a factor as well (partic. looking...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 26, 2008
10:27 pm

Getting data from anyone who has actually measured the impact of changes with the introduction of a transcoder is always interesting. It is very important that...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Oct 26, 2008
11:10 pm

Dear Tom Hume, Dear Luca Passani, Re: Luca's latest comment, "The economy of the web works so that someone will invest their resources to reach a global...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2008
2:05 am

David ... If a transcoder vendor ensures their products conform to the W3C CT guidelines, or signs the Manifesto, then the measures you have already taken...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2008
8:07 am

Hi Tom, Thanks for wanting to explore this further, Re: "If a transcoder vendor ensures their products conform to the W3C CT guidelines, or signs the...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2008
2:28 pm

... [snip] I'm not familiar with MSN Mobile (the main way I've used MSN is for IM) - is it a full mobile data service? Does seem strange to recognise a site is...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 27, 2008
3:06 pm

Tom. We're also "seeing" these devices over a 10 day period: Sprint OpenWeb Transcoder 70k+ page views Note: applied for white list. Novarra Vision 40K+ page...
David Harper
engagelogic
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2008
3:40 am

These are abuses. It is impossible for the Manifesto to stop them all. But at least, the Manifesto can be a great support to in fighting against them (look,...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Oct 28, 2008
10:07 am

I have followed the transcoder/transforming discussion for a while and i think it has been a good discussion. In the context i had the following comments and...
advanig
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
3:27 pm

... I would be careful with this approach. After all the internet is NOT about having a centralized anything. Having something centralized invariably means...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
4:31 pm

... It means that, when transformed, Joe is informed that his security is being degraded and given the option of having a fully secure experience if he wants...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
4:48 pm

Sorry Tom, Joe the flower seller has no idea what is going on. The spec only talks about Joe the plumber who is the on making the purchase. If in the future...
Jose Alberto Fernandez
j_a_fernandez
Online Now Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
5:13 pm

Jose Content providers can look for a Via: header, which a proxy MUST add in (section 4.1.6.1), to see if requests are coming via a proxy. I've just...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
5:22 pm

... add ... You are pointing at the following: "Proxies must (in accordance with compliance to RFC 2616) include a Via HTTP header indicating their presence...
casays
Offline Send Email
Oct 29, 2008
6:35 pm

... OK - I'm not sure that a proxy which adds a Via header but leaves out the W3C comment is indetectable. Even if a proxy were to use a pseudonym for security...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 30, 2008
11:11 pm

Tom, I do not have the specification at hand. Is there any provision or mechanism on the spec to require compliant transcoders to behave as a fully transparent...
Jose Alberto Fernandez
j_a_fernandez
Online Now Send Email
Nov 3, 2008
6:39 pm

... I want to get back to this point, because I think it is important. When we first started taking about the problems with transcoders. One of the things I...
Jose Alberto Fernandez
j_a_fernandez
Online Now Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
4:04 pm

Jose How is this dissimilar (in level of effort or who does it) to a server- configured directive adding Cache-control: no-transform to every HTTP response? ...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
4:36 pm

This is interesting. Tom. Using a "Cache-control:no-transform" is not a complete solution because it is in the response. The request is already done, with a ...
Julio Rabadán Gonz...
juliorabadang
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
5:10 pm

... Only if the user-agent is spoofed, of course. The CTG doc suggests that proxies should not do these duplicate requests: "In order, as far as possible, to...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
5:18 pm

Of course. And exactly that is the reason why Cache-control is not an autoconsintent solution (and CTG). To be really useful, when user-agent is spoofed and...
Julio Rabadán Gonz...
juliorabadang
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
5:47 pm

Well, I'd suggest the user-agent not be spoofed, myself... but would accept it when the user's asked for it. Surely there are better (and existing) ways of a...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
7:55 pm

As i said previously, CTG is not autoconsistent offering "Cache-control:no-transform" with user-agent spoofing because it will force to a second request (even...
Julio Rabadán Gonz...
juliorabadang
Offline Send Email
Oct 31, 2008
10:17 pm

Julio ... I'm not sure what autoconsistent means, but the CTG only allows user- agent spoofing when the user has asked for a transcoded desktop experience. ......
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
12:55 pm

Consistent means, in theories and logic, that all the terms of a complex rule (a group of rules) do not enter in conflict with any of other terms of the same...
somms@...
juliorabadang
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
3:58 pm

... Tom, you keep playing dumb on everything that has been said. If we lived in an ideal world, then LINK would be a powerful tool for developers. But this is...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
7:47 am

... You think so? I think I'm pointing out that there are already ways of doing some of this stuff, that have been around for years. ... Unfortunately...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
12:35 pm

... so, why did the problem start in the first place. The problem started (surprise, surprise) when vodafone places a transcoder that steals the UA string in...
Luca Passani
luca_passani
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
2:40 pm

... Of course - I think we all remember that. And the Manifesto and CTG are both mechanisms to prevent this happening in future. ... I've seen no interview,...
Tom Hume
twhume
Offline Send Email
Nov 1, 2008
3:04 pm
 First  |  |  Next > Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help