Testing...
Things have been pretty quite lately.

Good point. I've noticed recently that the number of
questions coming from visitors to woodheat.org have dropped
off significantly. So I went to check visitor traffic to the
site and found that over the past two weeks it is still near
its normal averages of about 1200 per day. In fact our
highest month ever was January this year at 65,000, followed
by the highest February at 60,000 and the highest March at
48,000. So people are still going to the web to find out
about wood heating.

So then I went to the woodheat@yahoogroups.com site and
found that our list membership has jumped from about 250,
where it had been for most of this heating season, to its
highest level ever of 278. Maybe everyone is just exhausted
from the first three months of this year in which there were
record numbers of posts at 180, 104 and 83 respectively. I
conclude that the numbers don't explain the recent lack of
traffic on this list.

I guess we just exhausted the threads we were working on and
no one has jumped in to start a new one.
John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: controlsdude2000 [mailto:agarb@...]
> Sent: April 2, 2003 12:32 PM
> To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [woodheat] TEST
>
>
> Testing...
> Things have been pretty quite lately.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:
> woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I haven't been visiting as much because I've been training my dog to carry
wood to the house....after he's got that down, we tackle stacking it.

Brian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I thought we had several things being discussed,
then nothing! Must be the return of warmer weather.


----- Original Message -----
From: "controlsdude2000" <agarb@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: [woodheat] TEST


> Testing...
> Things have been pretty quite lately.
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

What kind of dog do you have?
Will it have puppies?

Miro

----- Original Message -----
From: <cphylthumb@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] TEST


> I haven't been visiting as much because I've been training my dog to carry
> wood to the house....after he's got that down, we tackle stacking it.
>
> Brian
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Here, heating season is starting to wind down.  Actually today the
weather was nice enough to go out into the woods and start cutting!

John Gulland wrote:

[and BR snipped]

> I guess we just exhausted the threads we were working on and
> no one has jumped in to start a new one.
> John

ah, you went the firewood route! the breeder i got my lab from told me
it was a great bloodline and you could teach his dogs anything but it
was kind of the "one trick pony" thing. i agonized for days..... carry
firewood or fetch beer from frig... carry firewood or fetch beer from
frig...
man, it was worse than the "tastes great/less filling" debate that tore
our family apart years ago. it wasn't an easy decision but i think i did
the right thing. i never really did care for light beer after all and
you sure burn alot of calories carrying & stacking firewood!

mark

cphylthumb@... wrote:

> I haven't been visiting as much because I've been training my dog to carry
> wood to the house....after he's got that down, we tackle stacking it.
>
> Brian
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>

You might want to ask the guy here,
that has the dog that totes and stacks wood,
if he lives near you.

Miro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Reite" <bobr@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] TEST


> Here, heating season is starting to wind down.  Actually today the
> weather was nice enough to go out into the woods and start cutting!
>
> John Gulland wrote:
>
> [and BR snipped]
>
> > I guess we just exhausted the threads we were working on and
> > no one has jumped in to start a new one.
> > John
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Now I want TWO puppies!!

Miro

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Tates" <5t8s@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] TEST


> ah, you went the firewood route! the breeder i got my lab from told me
> it was a great bloodline and you could teach his dogs anything but it
> was kind of the "one trick pony" thing. i agonized for days..... carry
> firewood or fetch beer from frig... carry firewood or fetch beer from
> frig...
> man, it was worse than the "tastes great/less filling" debate that tore
> our family apart years ago. it wasn't an easy decision but i think i did
> the right thing. i never really did care for light beer after all and
> you sure burn alot of calories carrying & stacking firewood!
>
> mark
>
> cphylthumb@... wrote:
>
> > I haven't been visiting as much because I've been training my dog to
carry
> > wood to the house....after he's got that down, we tackle stacking it.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> > To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

For those interested in installing an outdoor wood burning boiler,
you may want to consider visiting www.smokeshacks.com.

Regards.

--- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "controlsdude2000" <agarb@b...>
wrote:
> Testing...
> Things have been pretty quite
lately.

  I was beginning to wonder if this group had succumbed due to lack of
interest or some  technical error and am happy to see that we are
still a viable entity.
  There is a lot of valuable information to be gleaned from
participation in this group and I have personally profited from
monitoring this site.
  Lately, I have been distracted from participation due to part time
employment and also because the most prestigious magazine "The World
of Welding" which is published by the Hobart institute of welding
technology did a full page feature article on my plans for building
your own wood stove.  They included my name and address along with my
price for the plans and the response was so great that I have been
quite busy mailing out plans and making trips to the bank. Maybe when
things slow down a bit I can get back into research and development
on my next generation stove.  In the meantime, keep those questions
and answers coming.
                              Regards,
                                        Sam

My last "outdoor" wood boiler was a HS Tarm gasifier with a 1000 gallon
water tank installed in it's own 10' x 10' concrete block building. No smoke
to speak of. A much different animal than central boiler. It provided hot
water to 5 outbuildings.

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter
& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology:
http://www.green-trust.org
sspence@...
----- Original Message -----
From: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:48 PM
Subject: [woodheat] Digest Number 485


>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Outdoor Wood Burning Boilers
>            From: "xskapes" <mail@...>
>       2. Re: TEST
>            From: "Sam W Lydick" <stoveplanman@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:07:29 -0000
>    From: "xskapes" <mail@...>
> Subject: Outdoor Wood Burning Boilers
>
> For those interested in installing an outdoor wood burning boiler,
> you may want to consider visiting www.smokeshacks.com.
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 04:11:06 -0000
>    From: "Sam W Lydick" <stoveplanman@...>
> Subject: Re: TEST
>
> --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "controlsdude2000" <agarb@b...>
> wrote:
> > Testing...
> > Things have been pretty quite
> lately.
>
>  I was beginning to wonder if this group had succumbed due to lack of
> interest or some  technical error and am happy to see that we are
> still a viable entity.
>  There is a lot of valuable information to be gleaned from
> participation in this group and I have personally profited from
> monitoring this site.
>  Lately, I have been distracted from participation due to part time
> employment and also because the most prestigious magazine "The World
> of Welding" which is published by the Hobart institute of welding
> technology did a full page feature article on my plans for building
> your own wood stove.  They included my name and address along with my
> price for the plans and the response was so great that I have been
> quite busy mailing out plans and making trips to the bank. Maybe when
> things slow down a bit I can get back into research and development
> on my next generation stove.  In the meantime, keep those questions
> and answers coming.
>                              Regards,
>                                        Sam
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Anyone have experience with the mean green splitting machine at
  www.firewood-splitter.com or the splitters at www.minisplitter.com?

  Any help is greatly appreciated.

I have not tried either one, but from looking at the descriptions, the
"Mean Green" machine only has the advantage of not "missing", it would
still require the same effort and strength as using a conventional maul.
I have considered building something similar to the minisplitter using a
bottle jack, which is exactly what drives the minisplitter.  It seems to
me that using the minisplitter might take longer than a conventional
maul, but would be easier.  I too, would be interested in hearing from
someone who has actually used the minisplitter.


Transy416 wrote:
>  Anyone have experience with the mean green splitting machine at
>  www.firewood-splitter.com or the splitters at www.minisplitter.com?
>
>  Any help is greatly appreciated.

hi i have a timberline woodburner insert that has the whole chimney
system in the center of the house. a stairwell is around the back
side of the fire place and a natural gas boiler system is under the
stairs, which puts the boiler about 3 ft from the back of the
fireplace. heres the fun part lol, since i havent enough money to buy
an outdoor woodburner,and i have welder/fabricator experience so i
came up with the wild idea to  "t" into the boiler system and run
either a network of copper piping like a sort of heat exchanger or
maybe if there is a heater core type of deal that i can install near
the back side of the woodburner.  well there it is my idea lets hear
your pros and cons .

A friend of mine bought a splitter that worked on the
same principle. The difference being that it had two
hand operated handles. He used it once. Yes,  it
allowed someone with barely any strength to split wood
but the operation was slow ( how much pumping you
had to do to extend ram) and actually more tedious
and tiring ( an aerobic workout) than splitting by hand. Now if he has a
little to split he does it by hand, a lot he rents a power splitter. I think
you should try before you
buy.

Miro


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Reite" <bobr@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] splitters


> I have not tried either one, but from looking at the descriptions, the
> "Mean Green" machine only has the advantage of not "missing", it would
> still require the same effort and strength as using a conventional maul.
> I have considered building something similar to the minisplitter using a
> bottle jack, which is exactly what drives the minisplitter.  It seems to
> me that using the minisplitter might take longer than a conventional
> maul, but would be easier.  I too, would be interested in hearing from
> someone who has actually used the minisplitter.
>
>
> Transy416 wrote:
> >  Anyone have experience with the mean green splitting machine at
> >  www.firewood-splitter.com or the splitters at www.minisplitter.com?
> >
> >  Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

From eBay, I got a couple of these <A
HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3602331808&category=160\
42">eBay item 3602331808 (Ends Apr-10-03
08:35:31 PDT ) - Campfire/Fireplace Wood Splitter</A> ....first one was a blond
in a size 6, and next was a rehead in a size 7.

Brian


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oooops, make that "redhead".


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I spent all of this past Sunday running a Timberwolf TWP-1 gas
powered wood splitter.  I got through about 3 cords fully split.

It cost me $60 to rent, and I am almost done with my year's splitting
requirements.

Doing this manually, or with one of these minisplitters just doesn't
make sense to me with my contrained schedule.  In addition, this work
can be back breaking, literally.

Spend the $60-$100 and enjoy more time in front of the fire instead
of swinging a maul or pumping a hydraulic jack.

For those of you with serious splitting needs, buy the darn
Timberwolf outright for $1700 and depreciate it over the 20+ years
that it will last.  Your back will thank you!



--- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, Bob Reite <bobr@t...> wrote:
> I have not tried either one, but from looking at the descriptions,
the
> "Mean Green" machine only has the advantage of not "missing", it
would
> still require the same effort and strength as using a conventional
maul.
> I have considered building something similar to the minisplitter
using a
> bottle jack, which is exactly what drives the minisplitter.  It
seems to
> me that using the minisplitter might take longer than a
conventional
> maul, but would be easier.  I too, would be interested in hearing
from
> someone who has actually used the minisplitter.
>
>
> Transy416 wrote:
> >  Anyone have experience with the mean green splitting machine at
> >  www.firewood-splitter.com or the splitters at
www.minisplitter.com?
> >
> >  Any help is greatly appreciated.

My dad bought one of those manual splitters sold by Cummins (also
sold by HF and others) with the double handle pumping action.  He did
not like it and gave it to me.  I used it to split approx. 1/2 a cord
this past winter and it worked fine.  Yes, it is *very* slow and I
would not recommend it if you plan on chopping your entire winter's
wood supply, unless you are strictly doing it for excercise (I lost
10 pounds the week I split every night and on the weekend).  I can't
justify buying or renting a splitter because I typically buy pre-
split wood and have it delivered.  The manual splitter comes in handy
for the few times a piece is not split small enough, for my liking,
or when I come across a small bit of free fire wood.  This past
winter was a bit of an anomoly in that my wife met a couple who was
taking out some trees on their lot and wanted them gone.  For the
cost of renting a Lowes truck (we don't own a truck), we had "free"
firewood that we had to split (and there is still some left over that
I need to split up this summer).

In my area, it is not much more to buy pre-split wood than unsplit
wood, therefore, I can't justify the $60 rental plus the cost of gas
to run it and the gas and oil needed to run a chainsaw.

Paul

--- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, "tcnovak2003" <novaktc@p...> wrote:
> I spent all of this past Sunday running a Timberwolf TWP-1 gas
> powered wood splitter.  I got through about 3 cords fully split.
>
> It cost me $60 to rent, and I am almost done with my year's
splitting
> requirements.
>
> Doing this manually, or with one of these minisplitters just
doesn't
> make sense to me with my contrained schedule.  In addition, this
work
> can be back breaking, literally.
>
> Spend the $60-$100 and enjoy more time in front of the fire instead
> of swinging a maul or pumping a hydraulic jack.
>
> For those of you with serious splitting needs, buy the darn
> Timberwolf outright for $1700 and depreciate it over the 20+ years
> that it will last.  Your back will thank you!
>
>
>
> --- In woodheat@yahoogroups.com, Bob Reite <bobr@t...> wrote:
> > I have not tried either one, but from looking at the
descriptions,
> the
> > "Mean Green" machine only has the advantage of not "missing", it
> would
> > still require the same effort and strength as using a
conventional
> maul.
> > I have considered building something similar to the minisplitter
> using a
> > bottle jack, which is exactly what drives the minisplitter.  It
> seems to
> > me that using the minisplitter might take longer than a
> conventional
> > maul, but would be easier.  I too, would be interested in hearing
> from
> > someone who has actually used the minisplitter.
> >
> >
> > Transy416 wrote:
> > >  Anyone have experience with the mean green splitting machine at
> > >  www.firewood-splitter.com or the splitters at
> www.minisplitter.com?
> > >
> > >  Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback about this.  I have quite a bit of
wood to split, so I guess I will go ahead and just rent a gas splitter for a
day.  Seems like the easiest and quickest approach.

If I may, I will stick my opinion and observations in.
The opinion- unless you are MUCH younger than I (76, today), a powered
splitter is a fine addition to the woodburners tool kit. It's either buy it
(wood) or cut it, and splitting is a big part of the cutting.
This brings me to the observations- MOST of the work of getting your own
wood is in moving it. The sequence is -cut it- move it out of the way- cut
to length- move it to the splitter- split some- move it out of the way-
repeat all these steps- then move it to the drying stack- then to the
house- then to the stove- etc.
Although the splitter is a fine gadget, more labor is saved by planning the
wood moving and getting some moving tools than anything else.
Think about it. (really !)
Bill

At 05:04 PM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>Thanks to everyone for their feedback about this.  I have quite a bit of
>wood to split, so I guess I will go ahead and just rent a gas splitter for a
>day.  Seems like the easiest and quickest approach.
>
>
>

Bill Aycock - W4BSG
Woodville, Alabama

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Any recommended carriers?

Lehman's has this one...
http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=754&itemType=P
RODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=886&iProductID=754


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Aycock" <baycock@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] Re: splitters


> If I may, I will stick my opinion and observations in.
> The opinion- unless you are MUCH younger than I (76, today), a powered
> splitter is a fine addition to the woodburners tool kit. It's either buy
it
> (wood) or cut it, and splitting is a big part of the cutting.
> This brings me to the observations- MOST of the work of getting your own
> wood is in moving it. The sequence is -cut it- move it out of the way- cut
> to length- move it to the splitter- split some- move it out of the way-
> repeat all these steps- then move it to the drying stack- then to the
> house- then to the stove- etc.
> Although the splitter is a fine gadget, more labor is saved by planning
the
> wood moving and getting some moving tools than anything else.
> Think about it. (really !)
> Bill
>
> At 05:04 PM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Thanks to everyone for their feedback about this.  I have quite a bit of
> >wood to split, so I guess I will go ahead and just rent a gas splitter
for a
> >day.  Seems like the easiest and quickest approach.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> Woodville, Alabama
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

that link didn't work...here it is...
http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=754&itemType=P
RODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=886&iProductID=754



----- Original Message -----
From: "Transy416" <transy416@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [woodheat] Re: splitters


> Any recommended carriers?
>
> Lehman's has this one...
>
http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=754&itemType=P
> RODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=886&iProductID=754
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Aycock" <baycock@...>
> To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [woodheat] Re: splitters
>
>
> > If I may, I will stick my opinion and observations in.
> > The opinion- unless you are MUCH younger than I (76, today), a powered
> > splitter is a fine addition to the woodburners tool kit. It's either buy
> it
> > (wood) or cut it, and splitting is a big part of the cutting.
> > This brings me to the observations- MOST of the work of getting your own
> > wood is in moving it. The sequence is -cut it- move it out of the way-
cut
> > to length- move it to the splitter- split some- move it out of the way-
> > repeat all these steps- then move it to the drying stack- then to the
> > house- then to the stove- etc.
> > Although the splitter is a fine gadget, more labor is saved by planning
> the
> > wood moving and getting some moving tools than anything else.
> > Think about it. (really !)
> > Bill
> >
> > At 05:04 PM 4/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks to everyone for their feedback about this.  I have quite a bit
of
> > >wood to split, so I guess I will go ahead and just rent a gas splitter
> for a
> > >day.  Seems like the easiest and quickest approach.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> > Woodville, Alabama
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> > To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

That link worked fine for me, once I got it on one line.
It looks great to me but it is listed as on backorder. They have a nice
Garden Cart that should work, too.
Thanks for the reminder about Lehmans
Bill
At 01:05 PM 4/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>that link didn't work...here it is...
>http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=754&itemType=P
>RODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=886&iProductID=754
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Transy416" <transy416@...>
>To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 12:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [woodheat] Re: splitters
>
>
> > Any recommended carriers?
> >
> > Lehman's has this one...
> >
>http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=754&itemType=P
> > RODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=886&iProductID=754
> >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For when the power goes out, or you just need a good soak.

http://webconx.green-trust.org/2003/hottub/

I am installing a VC Encore woodstove in my current fireplace; stove
will sit on the hearth and I will run the 8" dia. stove pipe up into
my current flue.

Question:  is a chimney liner needed to maintain a 8" diameter
exhaust pathway to safely exhaust the gases and minimize creosote
build up?

My current chimney flue is 13".  In addition , the chimney is located
on the outside of the house and is about 30' in length.  We are
located in Connecticut, so it gets plenty cold.

I am thinking the liner is needed so I minimize the condensing effect
caused by gases exiting an 8" diameter cylinder into a larger 13"
flue that is located outside.

Gases exiting into a larger, cooler area will condense and build up,
regardless of the operating efficiency of the stove, yes?  I am
sensitive to John G's past comments suggesting creosote build up is
an avoidable condition given the proper burning techniques.  Being a
first time burner, I am concerned I may not be in tune with all of
the variables/nuances of "proper burning".

If I can avoid this liner there is a giant cost savings to be had.

Chimney sweeps have told me to get the liner; masons have told me not
to bother.

Your collective thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Tim

If the ratio of the cross sectional area of the flue to the stove is more than
two to one it is required in NFPA 211(2003 edition). So if your flue LxW (ID) is
more that 100 square inches it should be lined.
Also,if you are using a U.L. listed liner, most  manufactures require it be
insulated. If there is not a one inch air gap between the exterior of the
chimney and the house then all the manufactures I am aware of require
insulation.
BTW, I am a chimney sweep.
Bob Belfer
Neptune Chimney Service
chimneys@...
Holly, MI

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim

Assuming the flue port on the woodstove is 8 inches.
Otherwise match the size of the port.
Does your chimney have the orange colored clay liner?
The configuration I recommend to my customers,
thinking I understand what you want to do, is to
come out of the stove  to a stainless steel "T".
Run SS liner, usually one piece flex, the entire length
of the chimney finished with SS top closure and raincap.
You may have to go with ovalized liner or a section of
ovalized in order to pass through your damper.
Be sure to close off access to portion of chimney that
will be inactive. The "T" provides a cleanout and
running the entire length maintains flue volume as
well as assuring that whatever goes up the chimney
either exits out the top or falls back inside the pipe
where it can be emptied from the "T" instead of
accumulating on top of the damper and smoke shelf.

Miro
Betterway Chimney Systems
Raymond, Maine

----- Original Message -----
From: "tcnovak2003" <novaktc@...>
To: <woodheat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 3:55 PM
Subject: [woodheat] Chimney Liner - is it needed?


> I am installing a VC Encore woodstove in my current fireplace; stove
> will sit on the hearth and I will run the 8" dia. stove pipe up into
> my current flue.
>
> Question:  is a chimney liner needed to maintain a 8" diameter
> exhaust pathway to safely exhaust the gases and minimize creosote
> build up?
>
> My current chimney flue is 13".  In addition , the chimney is located
> on the outside of the house and is about 30' in length.  We are
> located in Connecticut, so it gets plenty cold.
>
> I am thinking the liner is needed so I minimize the condensing effect
> caused by gases exiting an 8" diameter cylinder into a larger 13"
> flue that is located outside.
>
> Gases exiting into a larger, cooler area will condense and build up,
> regardless of the operating efficiency of the stove, yes?  I am
> sensitive to John G's past comments suggesting creosote build up is
> an avoidable condition given the proper burning techniques.  Being a
> first time burner, I am concerned I may not be in tune with all of
> the variables/nuances of "proper burning".
>
> If I can avoid this liner there is a giant cost savings to be had.
>
> Chimney sweeps have told me to get the liner; masons have told me not
> to bother.
>
> Your collective thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:  woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tim . . . and sweeps,
Maybe the sweeps would like to comment on the cost
difference between cleaning a stainless lined flue serving
an insert versus an unlined masonry flue with an insert
"connected". In Canada, where full lining for inserts is
mandatory by code (since 1991), complaints of high cleaning
costs and lousy performance of inserts are virtually gone.
For years before the mandatory lining rule was established,
a lot of Canadian retailers would only install inserts with
full liners and we made the sales pitch on the basis of
better performance and lower maintenance costs. Just my
opinion, mind you, but I think it would be a shame to
install a sophisticated, expensive stove like an Encore with
a half-assed venting system.
John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tcnovak2003 [mailto:novaktc@...]
> Sent: April 24, 2003 3:56 PM
> To: woodheat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [woodheat] Chimney Liner - is it needed?
>
>
> I am installing a VC Encore woodstove in my
> current fireplace; stove
> will sit on the hearth and I will run the 8" dia.
> stove pipe up into
> my current flue.
>
> Question:  is a chimney liner needed to maintain
> a 8" diameter
> exhaust pathway to safely exhaust the gases and
> minimize creosote
> build up?
>
> My current chimney flue is 13".  In addition ,
> the chimney is located
> on the outside of the house and is about 30' in
> length.  We are
> located in Connecticut, so it gets plenty cold.
>
> I am thinking the liner is needed so I minimize
> the condensing effect
> caused by gases exiting an 8" diameter cylinder
> into a larger 13"
> flue that is located outside.
>
> Gases exiting into a larger, cooler area will
> condense and build up,
> regardless of the operating efficiency of the
> stove, yes?  I am
> sensitive to John G's past comments suggesting
> creosote build up is
> an avoidable condition given the proper burning
> techniques.  Being a
> first time burner, I am concerned I may not be in
> tune with all of
> the variables/nuances of "proper burning".
>
> If I can avoid this liner there is a giant cost
> savings to be had.
>
> Chimney sweeps have told me to get the liner;
> masons have told me not
> to bother.
>
> Your collective thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> Check THE woodheat web site at  http://www.woodheat.org
> To receive no more messages email:
> woodheat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/