From: "Robin S. Socha" <robin-dated-1033120021.01a3fd@...>
To: qmail Mailing List <qmail@...>
Organization: Trial By Combat
Subject: Fwd: Re: Before life with qmail
Date: 2002/09/24 12:39:47 PM

* Brenda Bell <k15a-list-qmail@...> writes:
> 9/23/2002 13:39:46, Keith Mastin <kmastin@...> wrote:

>> The recommended reading before one even chooses the MTA is usually not
>> done by newbies, and they suffer for it later, trying to play catchup
>> with a race horse of a mail system.
>
> I find this to be true for almost all server applications, whether it
> be an MTA, a database server or a web server.

There is, however, a small difference. If you misconfigure your web
server, that's your problem. If suddenly millions of messages (mail or
news, letting beginners set up INN is equally stupid) hit your inbox,
you'll think differently. qmail gives you many opportunities to shoot
postmasters in the foot - why make them even more available to people
who should in fact be running an X-Box?

>> Dumbing down the docs IMHO is not the answer. This will only result
>> in more newbies running misconfigured mail systems on half-baked dns
>> settings and more slough for the list.
>
> I don't think what's being suggested here is "dumbing down the docs"...

Okay. So we'll end up with:

1. Dan's documentation which is 100% sufficient to get qmail up and
running in a breeze for a computer literate. Call it "technical
reference".

2. Dave's excellent site plus book for people who know their way around
Unix but may need a gentler introduction than a technical
reference. Call it "Tutorial".

3. Rüssel's site carrying all tiny bits and pieces required under select
circumstances, most of which are non-existant for the casual user,
therefore targetted at the people who understand 1. in the first
place, and therefore need no further information than man patch.

> I think everyone agrees that LWQ is more than sufficient for its intended
> purpose. But that still leaves the problem mentioned above...

I couldn't see "the problem mentioned above". If you want to refer to
previous messages, cite their message IDs.

> and a link on qmail.org that says "if you've never operated an MTA,
> please start here" would be a great resource

Since the target group will be people using Linux (as opposed to,
say, BSD), the document in question has existed for a *very* long
time: <http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Mail-Administrator-HOWTO-3.html> and
the following passage applies to this list even more than to USENET:
<http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Mail-Administrator-HOWTO-2.html#ss2.2>

> -- newbies have to start somewhere and making the starting point
> easier to find should contribute a great deal to the quality of
> questions people ask on this list.

Sure. Or maybe not... let me think... what do we have here... Self-proclaimed
Sysadmins sporting 25 line signatures saying that their dick size is strictly
confidential lest it should be known that they regularly abuse floppy slots
containing antivirus disks; pink pansies looking for some man love while
trying to play a technically handicapped version Captain America;...

This list is a honeypot for idiots, dyslexics and David T. Ashley and
his gay gang. There was a time when all mails sent with Microsoft "mail
clients" was blocked from this list. And it was good.

> the typical newbie who's interested in qmail will most likely make
> their way to qmail.org and see that first paragraph that says "If
> you're looking for a tutorial site, visit Dave Sill's excellent
> Life With Qmail site."

We are talking MTAs, not pr0n viewers, yes? As in "this is not a
toy". Which part of "misconfigurations can and will affect other
systems" do you find difficult to undertand, Brenda?

> That's not an appropriate starting place for someone who's new to
> MTA's in general...

Someone new to MTAs *and* too stupid to operate a search engine? Well,
great, *just* the kind of person you want on a technical mailing list,
eh?

> I think providing a document that is a good starting place would
> contribute quite a bit to improving the quality of questions posted
> to the list.

You know, Brenda, you sorta remind me of that female customer in Clerks
here: <ftp://204.213.252.2/home/dgresh/clerks/order.wav>

> P.S. Blast it... apologies to Kevin for replying directly rather than
> to the list.

Sorta fits, right? Siding with the lusers and happily using a toy not
good enough to be used on a technical mailing list. But as long as we're
all feeling well, everything's, like, good and stuff, huh-huh.

If you feel the urgent wish to mother idiots, please look for a more
appropriate target. alt.soc is full of them. Or take care of David, he
needs it, really.

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