hostility
socially useful software
computer industry related environments

In computer industry related environments, how do you folks out there
handle hostility, avoid hostility or ... ?   What are your ideals?...

Massachusetts Gnusers at the Cambridge Project Gnu lab quarters observe
hostility, anger and rage among other gnusers. things don't proceed as
anticipated. people slam their hands at keyboards in rage. criticism can
begin an anger cycle. overreactive arguing occurs. kneejerk overreactive
authoritarian hostility pains others. a territorial thing, contradictory to
the ideals of http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html

a sniffling, muzzling effect can take hold interfering with creativity.

Reference
http://www.adrr.com/aa/FAQ.html
http://www.adrr.com/
http://www.adrr.com/aa/overview.html
http://pon.harvard.edu

See also
Weblog guide to problematical gnus mail usability
http://zork.net/~dsaklad/gnusmail.html

From: "Robin S. Socha" <robin@...>
  Subject: Re: Guide to Problematical Don Saklad Use
  Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus
  Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 14:27:52 -0500
  Organization: Trial By Combat
  Path:
senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.veri\
o.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
  X-URL: <http://socha.net/>
  X-Face:  #Z}0zkbqU,m`+S)^0R[.23L-o>U{UQ|(DvIqu^Bjw:po_g9;4JnT9tbn;QX$ga/LYS
  Message-ID: <iloverobin.87hebcrl53.fsf@...>
  User-Agent: Gnus/5.090011 (Oort Gnus v0.11) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley,
i386-unknown-openbsd3.1)
  References: <y448ywor5x4.fsf@...>
   <iloverobin.87fzqwtrb8.fsf@...>
   <5390a120.0302100945.7fe7d91f@...>
  Cancel-Lock: sha1:/GgxdG21J6vsdWFYdEzbflcvfGA=
  MIME-Version: 1.0
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  Lines: 33
  NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.70.202.39
  X-Complaints-To: abuse@...
  X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 1044905178 209.70.202.39 (Mon, 10 Feb 2003
19:26:18 GMT)
  NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 19:26:18 GMT
  Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:64274

* el-santo <elsanto@...> writes:
> "Robin S. Socha" <robin@...> wrote:

>> * Don Saklad <dsaklad@...> writes nothing
[...]

>>> http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form
>>
>> Thank you for your valued contribution, Don. I've enhanced the page
>> as per your request.

> i think you're taking this don bashing thing a bit far.

I haven't even started. And your shift key is broken, luser.

> no need to be so rude and distateful. don has some good points,

Like "I'm mentally challenged, so you have to excuse my incessant idiocies
here"? Did you read <http://templeofhate.com/users/rsocha/rant/dsaklad.php>?

> and he's been nothing but polite to you.  [...] at least he's not
> insulting anyone.

He's insulting everyone's intelligence - except yours, obviously. Doesn't
that make you wonder?
                                                                                                                                   
> and don, keep at it. you'll get there eventually. mail in gnus is
> great. you won't be able to live without it. send me an email if you
> have questions.

mail lusers-subscribe@... < /dev/null

Let others join the fun!!!1

From: "Robin S. Socha" <robin@...>
  Subject: Guide to Problematical Don Saklad Use (was: How to develop an
automatic gnus mail set up thing for gnus users.)
  Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus
  Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 04:31:39 -0500
  Organization: Trial By Combat
  Path:
senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!dfw-peer!\
news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
  X-URL: <http://socha.net/>
  X-Face:  #Z}0zkbqU,m`+S)^0R[.23L-o>U{UQ|(DvIqu^Bjw:po_g9;4JnT9tbn;QX$ga/LYS
  Message-ID: <iloverobin.87fzqwtrb8.fsf@...>
  User-Agent: Gnus/5.090011 (Oort Gnus v0.11) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley,
   i386-unknown-openbsd3.1)
  References: <y448ywor5x4.fsf@...>
  Cancel-Lock: sha1:WLC88WamIvzMjEqD0mY0CMaH/h8=
  MIME-Version: 1.0
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  Lines: 7
  NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.70.202.39
  X-Complaints-To: abuse@...
  X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 1044869405 209.70.202.39 (Mon, 10 Feb 2003
09:30:05 GMT)
  NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:30:05 GMT
  Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:64261

* Don Saklad <dsaklad@...> writes nothing, as per usual. Please
   cf. http://templeofhate.com/users/rsocha/rant/dsaklad.php

>  http://my.gnus.org/GDG/basic/show_form

Thank you for your valued contribution, Don. I've enhanced the page as
per your request.

By Megan Tench

Subject: Boston Globe Online / Metro | Region / Web tangle
X-URL: http://boston.com/dailyglobe2/021/metro/Web_tangle+.shtml
    The Boston Globe Online Boston.com
    Boston Globe Online / City & Region

      [ Send this story to a friend | Easy-print version | Search archives ]


    Web tangle

    Schools struggling to stop tech-savvy bullies who have taken
    their taunting to cyberspace

    By Megan Tench, Globe Staff, 1/21/2003

    I t began a few months ago with name-calling on the bus,
    bullying in the hallway, and teasing on the train home, said
    Belmont High School junior Jacqueline Garcia. Then, last month,
    someone created a website posting Garcia's picture, poking fun
    at her red lipstick and long black hair. Taking it a step
    further, they also added Garcia's address, telephone number -
    and obscenity-laden descriptions about her, she said.

    Garcia learned about the site when the whispers began at
    school. The 11th-grader logged on to it at school and was
    shocked, she said: ''My hands were shaking.''

    Garcia, 16, who lives in Roxbury and is part of the Metco
    busing program, said she and her mother immediately told school
    and police officials about the offending website. Both are
    investigating, but no one has been charged. And Garcia, who
    already has missed more than three weeks of classes, refuses to
    go back to school, saying she feels threatened. She and her
    mother say school administrators and Metco officials aren't
    taking the incident seriously enough.

    ''They don't take it as a big deal,'' Garcia said. ''It's like
    they are waiting for something big to happen. I just want it to
    stop.''

    Garcia's case of ''cyber harassment'' presents unique
    challenges to investigators: None has heard of anything quite
    like it. But to those who track national trends in bullying,
    it's not a surprise. Computers, they say, have taken the
    schoolyard into cyberspace, and now students can catch up on
    ugly taunts and gossip as easily as they can download hot tips
    for their math homework.

    Belmont High principal Foster Wright, who has urged Garcia to
    return to school and pledged she will be safe, acknowledged
    that school officials are frustrated and baffled. ''We don't
    have much experience with this,'' Wright said.

    School administrators more familiar with erasing hurtful words
    scribbled on bathroom walls are discovering that cracking down
    on bullying in cyberspace is more challenging, thanks to
    computer-savvy teenagers.

    ''When I was in school, kids would use composition books, make
    slam books out of them about other kids, and pass them
    around,'' said Nancy Mullin-Rindler, director of the Project on
    Teasing and Bullying at Wellesley College. ''Now kids are using
    technology.''

    Whether it's using false or stolen e-mail addresses, instant
    messaging under an assumed name, or anonymous website postings
    created from virtually any computer, cyber harassers force
    school officials to become skilled computer experts to track
    them down, national specialists on bullying said.

    ''Bullies are experts on the hit and run,'' said Jerome
    Schultz, a clinical neuropsychologist and director of the
    Learning Lab at Lesley University. ''The Internet just gives
    the bully a high-tech playing field, and a better chance of
    hiding and getting away with it.''

    State officials acknowledge that cyber harassment is a
    relatively new issue, and some schools are still trying to
    figure out how to best discipline students who are caught.
    ''Some schools, however, already have it specifically written
    in the code that what happens outside the school is not their
    responsibility,'' said Heidi Perlman, Department of Education
    spokeswoman.
                                                                                                                                      
But school officials have some leeway, she said, if a site is
    threatening, or hurtful, even if it was created on a home
    computer.

    Three years ago, three eighth-graders at Gates Intermediate
    School in Scituate were suspended for five days after posting a
    profanity-laden website targeting another student. School
    officials learned who posted the site after buzz about the Web
    page spread throughout the school.

    Last week, Scituate Superintendent Mark R. Mason said the
    school system has not created a policy on the use of websites,
    but has installed a filtering system on school computers.

    In Belmont, police officials would not comment on the specifics
    of Garcia's case. But ''we work well with Belmont High School
    and we are in constant communication with the high school
    administration,'' said Lieutenant Peter Hoerr.

    Wright said that police and school officials have been unable
    to track down the computer used to create the website about
    Garcia. ''The hardest part is that she has suspicions about who
    did it, but we don't have any proof,'' he said. ''As the
    principal I met with some of the girls, I've involved the
    police, and we've done everything we can do. But I can't just
    punish kids based on her suspicion. They said they didn't do
    it, and what if they really didn't do it?''

    Mullin said school staff may have to rely on old-fashioned
    methods to track down cyber bullies, such as paying careful
    attention to student gossip and talking to those who could
    confirm who posted the site. ''I can't imagine that this is a
    secret thing,'' she said. ''Kids don't do things like this
    unless, of course, they have an audience. It's a way to boost
    their esteem.''

    While school and police officials try to determine who
    developed the website, Rainelda Borrero, Garcia's mother, has
    asked Metco officials to transfer her daughter to another of
    the high schools in the 32 districts that participate in Metco.
    The program was developed 36 years ago as a civil-rights
    initiative to desegregate suburban schools and offer minority
    students from the city access to some of the best school
    systems in the state. Garcia is one of about 3,000 Boston-area
    minority students enrolled in Metco, which stands for the
    Metropolitan Council for Educational Opportunity.

    Borrero said Metco administrators have refused to transfer her
    daughter. And she said she thinks they and school officials are
    not taking the matter seriously because the bullies, who she
    said also are Metco students, are black and Garcia is
    light-skinned and Puerto Rican.

    ''My daughter is not white enough or black enough and no one's
    going to advocate for her,'' she said. ''I feel that if this
    was a white and black situation things would be different.''

    School officials and Metco administrators deny race is a
    factor.

    Qasim Adbul-Tawwab, Metco's student services manager, said he
    could not comment on Garcia's case, but said transfers within
    the program are rare. ''Metco is not a school district, it's a
    state-operated busing program. It would be an extraordinary
    situation to allow students to transfer,'' he said.

    In addition, Tawwab said, the problems Metco students face at
    school are the responsibility of the district they're enrolled
    in. ''We are certainly supportive of maintaining the safety and
    the academic progress of our students, but the problems a Metco
    student runs into are to be resolved as though the student is
    from that town,'' he said. ''As far as I know, the authorites
    are responding to this and there has been no indication of any
    threat that would bar her from going to school.''

    Wright, Belmont High's principal, said the school will continue
    to investigate, but his primary concern is to get Garcia back
    in school. ''No one here is saying that this is stuff she
    should be subjected to,'' he said. ''We want her here. This
    truly is a place she can come and feel safe, and she really
    needs to come back to school.''

    This story ran on page B1 of the Boston Globe on 1/21/2003.

      [ Send this story to a friend | Easy-print version | Search archives ]
http://boston.com/dailyglobe2/021/metro/Web_tangle+.shtml

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felix von Leitner [mailto:felix-qmail@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 8:11 PM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: Felix
>
>
> Thus spake Blair Campbell (blairacampbell@...):
> > Here is a good example of what I originally wrote about.
>
> Are you really to stupid to understand the difference between "you send
> me an email" and "you post to a mailing list where I am subscribed"?
>
> Apparently so.
>
> Blair, I think people like you are the bubonic plague on the ass of the
> internet.  Whining lusers, always complaining that nobody went out of
> their way to help them.  Not only do I now want to read your drivel
> here, I especially do not want you to send email to me.
>
> I can killfile you on this list just fine, thank you.
> But lusers like you sending empty drivel to me that is not only full of
> typos but also content-free and badly quoted, that is too much.  I have
> enough lusers in Europe, I don't need to be contacted by new lusers from
> Canada, thankyouverymuch.  Now please go back to your computer club for
> the mentally challenged and install new rpms of more software you don't
> actually understand.  And don't waste more of our time here!
>
> > The hostility just amps up now with threats for replying to Felix's
> > email as above. I never forced you to respond to any of my email.
>
> I certainly didn't ask you to waste my time on this mailing list with
> your mindless chatter.
>
> > You can choose to drop it.
>
> How about you shut the fsck up and leave, now?
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felix von Leitner [mailto:felix-qmail@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 7:09 AM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: hostile
>
>
> Thus spake Blair Campbell (blairacampbell@...):
> > I have been reading many of the emails on this list and find Charles
> > aggressiveness unnecessary. The reason people are on this list
> is because
> > they are having some problem and don't have the answer.
>
> No.  I am on this list and I don't have a problem with qmail.
> I *do* have a problem with whining lusers like yourself.
>
> If you don't read the documentation and make a sincere effort to solve
> the problem yourself, you may be ridiculed.  It's that easy.
>
> > I agree they should follow the rules... but rules are guidelines and
> > some times new user don't get it right the first or second time...
>
> Then they should be playing with sticks and stones and not with an MTA
> on the Internet.
>
> > no need to jump all over them. I am following samba, httpd,
> > interchange, proftp lists also and they seem to have a better attitude
> > about helping people who are trying to solve problems.
>
> Why don't you stay there, then?
>
> > IQ 93 percentile tested in 2002
>
> What the hell are you trying to say with this one, Blair?
> IQ is a Quotient, not a percentile.  100 is considered "average".
>
> > In August 2002 set up first linux/apache/interchange/qmail/proftp server
>
> > Does read all he can find before asking a question... in fact
> prefers not to
> > have to ask for help
>
> > Send's email from Outlook Express on one of his computers
> running windows xp
>
> Man, that's wonderful!  I am so happy for you.
> I am also happy if my son manages to put together his wooden toy
> railroad.
>
> This is not a touchy feely community i-love-you-you-love-me mailing
> list.  If you are looking for a nice community, go to a local Linux or
> BSD user's group.  This list is used by professionals whose time is
> actually worth something.  They are not happy if their time is wasted
> with bullshit like this.
>
> > Does not have formal training in computers.
>
> Start by capitalizing words and ending sentences properly and nobody
> will know.  Oh, and please get out of the way of people who actually
> work.
>
> Felix
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Hansson [mailto:lars@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 8:28 PM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: hostile
>
>
> Oh man, here we go again...
>
> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:04:17 -0800
> Blair Campbell <blairacampbell@...> wrote:
>
> [yadda yadda yadda]
>
> It's very simple really. Either you know how to ask questions on
> a list, in wich
> case you wont get a spanking or you dont now, in wich case you do.
> If you screwed up and got spanked, live with it and learn from
> it. There's nothing
> personal about it. Everyone screws up and everyone gets spanked
> sooner or later.
> If you dont learn? Well, I'm sure there's saying for people who
> make the same
> mistakes over and over...
>
> > To some degree this lists success helps spread qmails dominance
> over other
> > email MTA's. This list being larger (because it is by fare the
> smalles of
> > the ones I am on) is GOOD for qmail.
>
> There's no direct relationship between the list size and qmail
> usage. Increased
> qmail usage will possibly result in larger list but a larger list does not
> lead to increased qmail usage.
>
> > Blair Campbell
>
> [more drivel]
> We dont care if you're the pope or went to Harvard or if you
> drive a garbage
> truck.
>
> ----
> Lars Hansson
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 6:31 PM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: hostile
>
>
> * Blair Campbell <blairacampbell@...> writes:
>
> > I have been reading many of the emails on this list and find Charles
> > aggressiveness unnecessary.
>
> Please fuck yourself hard and dry and get an STD in the process,
> asshole. If
> it weren't for Charles, Adam, Rüssel, Mate, Ken, Uwe, Dave, and
> many others
> who devote their time and knowledge to problems of fucking freeloaders too
> lazy to read a couple of pages of documentation, people like me
> wouldn't be
> running qmail. And that would be a shame because qmail is a
> wonderful piece
> of software, very well documented, very easy to set up, and, well, simply
> cool.
>
> Did I already mention that your whining luser attitude makes me sick,
> treehugger?
>
> And David, don't bother answering this mail. I just killfiled you.
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: seth@... [mailto:seth@...]On Behalf Of
> seth@...
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 6:13 PM
> To: peter green
> Cc: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: hostile
>
>
> This is typical, a gratuitis personal attack based on an incorrect
> characterization of something you imagine I might have said.  If
> _you_ look
> through the archives you will not find any such "little nuggets
> of usefulness"
> as you describe.
>
> But that is beside the point.  It is apparent that you care only
> about your own
> egos, and couldn't care less if qmail dies tomorrow.  Look in the
> mirror, don't
> attack other people.
>
> On 13-Jan-2003 peter green wrote:
> > Seth, Blair, et al,
> >
> > Your conduct demonstrates the very stupidity that Charles and other list
> > regulars strive to minimize. If either of you (or anyone else
> involved in
> > this thread from the "the qmail list regulars are so mean!
> *sniff*" angle)
> > had looked through the archives, you would realize that all of your
> > brilliant little nuggets of uselessness have been raised before.
> >
> > Drop it. Start talking about qmail or shut up and leave.
> >
> > /pg
> > --
> > Peter Green : Architekton Internet Services, LLC : pcg@...
> > -------------------------------------------------------------
> > descendent is isaac seay
> > -- http://www.googlism.com/
> > This mail is probably spam.  The original message has been attached
> > along with this report, so you can recognize or block similar unwanted
> > mail in future.  See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
> >
> > Content preview:  Seth, Blair, et al, Your conduct demonstrates the very
> >   stupidity that Charles and other list regulars strive to minimize. If
> >   either of you (or anyone else involved in this thread from the "the
> >   qmail list regulars are so mean! *sniff*" angle) had looked
> through the
> >   archives, you would realize that all of your brilliant little nuggets
> >   of uselessness have been raised before. [...]
> >
> > Content analysis details:   (-3.20 points, 5 required)
> > IN_REP_TO          (-0.8 points) Has a In-Reply-To header
> > REFERENCES         (-0.5 points) Has a valid-looking References header
> > SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE (-0.3 points) Short signature present (no
> empty lines)
> > USER_AGENT_MUTT    (-1.6 points) User-Agent header indicates a
> non-spam MUA
> > (Mutt)
>
> ----------------------------------
> E-Mail: seth@...
> Date: 13-Jan-2003
> Time: 16:11:21
>
> This message was sent by XFMail
> ----------------------------------
>

a. How do you write the best insults like the great insult comedians
    or like the great authors who've also written insults?...

    A model like the insults in Shakespeare's plays looks unapproachable.

Here's one writer's attempts
[ http://templeofhate.com/users/rsocha/rant/dsaklad.php ]
[
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=socha%20saklad&safe=off&ie=ISO-8859-1&lr=&n\
um=100&as_scoring=d&hl=en ]


b. Who are the great insult comedians?...

c. Who are the great authors who've written insults?...





Cheers!
  oo__  Don Warner Saklad

http://saklad.org

From: "Robin S. Socha" <robin-dated-1033120021.01a3fd@...>
To: qmail Mailing List <qmail@...>
Organization: Trial By Combat
Subject: Fwd: Re: Before life with qmail
Date: 2002/09/24 12:39:47 PM

* Brenda Bell <k15a-list-qmail@...> writes:
> 9/23/2002 13:39:46, Keith Mastin <kmastin@...> wrote:

>> The recommended reading before one even chooses the MTA is usually not
>> done by newbies, and they suffer for it later, trying to play catchup
>> with a race horse of a mail system.
>
> I find this to be true for almost all server applications, whether it
> be an MTA, a database server or a web server.

There is, however, a small difference. If you misconfigure your web
server, that's your problem. If suddenly millions of messages (mail or
news, letting beginners set up INN is equally stupid) hit your inbox,
you'll think differently. qmail gives you many opportunities to shoot
postmasters in the foot - why make them even more available to people
who should in fact be running an X-Box?

>> Dumbing down the docs IMHO is not the answer. This will only result
>> in more newbies running misconfigured mail systems on half-baked dns
>> settings and more slough for the list.
>
> I don't think what's being suggested here is "dumbing down the docs"...

Okay. So we'll end up with:

1. Dan's documentation which is 100% sufficient to get qmail up and
    running in a breeze for a computer literate. Call it "technical
    reference".

2. Dave's excellent site plus book for people who know their way around
    Unix but may need a gentler introduction than a technical
    reference. Call it "Tutorial".

3. Rüssel's site carrying all tiny bits and pieces required under select
    circumstances, most of which are non-existant for the casual user,
    therefore targetted at the people who understand 1. in the first
    place, and therefore need no further information than man patch.

> I think everyone agrees that LWQ is more than sufficient for its intended
> purpose.  But that still leaves the problem mentioned above...

I couldn't see "the problem mentioned above". If you want to refer to
previous messages, cite their message IDs.

> and a link on qmail.org that says "if you've never operated an MTA,
> please start here" would be a great resource

Since the target group will be people using Linux (as opposed to,
say, BSD), the document in question has existed for a *very* long
time: <http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Mail-Administrator-HOWTO-3.html> and
the following passage applies to this list even more than to USENET:
<http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Mail-Administrator-HOWTO-2.html#ss2.2>

> -- newbies have to start somewhere and making the starting point
> easier to find should contribute a great deal to the quality of
> questions people ask on this list.

Sure. Or maybe not... let me think... what do we have here... Self-proclaimed
Sysadmins sporting 25 line signatures saying that their dick size is strictly
confidential lest it should be known that they regularly abuse floppy slots
containing antivirus disks; pink pansies looking for some man love while
trying to play a technically handicapped version Captain America;...

This list is a honeypot for idiots, dyslexics and David T. Ashley and
his gay gang. There was a time when all mails sent with Microsoft "mail
clients" was blocked from this list. And it was good.

> the typical newbie who's interested in qmail will most likely make
> their way to qmail.org and see that first paragraph that says "If
> you're looking for a tutorial site, visit Dave Sill's excellent
> Life With Qmail site."

We are talking MTAs, not pr0n viewers, yes? As in "this is not a
toy". Which part of "misconfigurations can and will affect other
systems" do you find difficult to undertand, Brenda?

> That's not an appropriate starting place for someone who's new to
> MTA's in general...

Someone new to MTAs *and* too stupid to operate a search engine? Well,
great, *just* the kind of person you want on a technical mailing list,
eh?

> I think providing a document that is a good starting place would
> contribute quite a bit to improving the quality of questions posted
> to the list.

You know, Brenda, you sorta remind me of that female customer in Clerks
here: <ftp://204.213.252.2/home/dgresh/clerks/order.wav>

> P.S.  Blast it... apologies to Kevin for replying directly rather than
> to the list.

Sorta fits, right? Siding with the lusers and happily using a toy not
good enough to be used on a technical mailing list. But as long as we're
all feeling well, everything's, like, good and stuff, huh-huh.

If you feel the urgent wish to mother idiots, please look for a more
appropriate target. alt.soc is full of them. Or take care of David, he
needs it, really.

-------- End of forwarded message --------

Are there optional ways to relay via plesk, without going w/ the
default?

------- Start of forwarded message -------
From: "Robin S. Socha" <robin-dated-1031428905.bfd1f6@...>
To: qmail list <qmail@...>
Organization: Trial By Combat
Subject: Fwd: Re: ease of install.
Date: 2002/09/04 10:09:23 PM

* Miguel Sarmiento <Msarmiento@...> writes:
> peter green [mailto:pcg@...] wrote:

Fix your fucking mailtoy or stop posting to a technical mailing list.

[...]
>> Further, if you are new to sysadmin stuff and aren't subscribed to
>> about 5-10 technical email lists on the topic, you are probably doing
>> something wrong. Most Linux distros and other software packages have
>> their own email lists, many of which are quite well maintained. You
>> MUST have a good understanding of your system before you start putting
>> things like qmail on it or you will have quite a bit of an uphill
>> battle. Not saying it's impossible, but this isn't point-and-drool
>> software.

> But there might be instances that a problem is subtle enough that it
> may warrant that the solution is neither on the aplication nor on
> the OS but a combination of both, we are humans and not robots or
> automatons and we should have the flexibilty to acertain when to
> respond or not.

Which part of "if you don't know what you're doing, don't to it" do you
have difficulty understanding? There are very, very clear instructions
on how to set up qmail on various platforms on cr.yp.to. If you do not
understand them, don't use qmail. If you insist on doing something not
covered by the installation instructions, don't come here whining. And
if you do, deliver clear error messages one can actually work with.

Yes. It is *that* simple. I posted a couple of questions which, in
hindsight, were just plain stupid here. However, I had the sense to
provide the people willing to help nonetheless a clear view of what I
had been doing and in which environment. So I was helped.

The problem with this list is not the unwillingness of the regulars to
help. It's morons without a clue (and broken mailtoys like your SM Mail)
going "I demand that you read my mind and if you don't, I'll accuse
*all* of you of being heartless tech-droids". Well, go figure - the game
doesn't work this way.

And now do us a favour and sod off unless you've at least learned how to
use an MUA.

-------- End of forwarded message --------

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1027770907.39ac4a@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:59 AM
To: qmail list
Subject: Re: OT: how to send binary files from scripts


* Bgs himself <bgs@...> writes:

> Sorry for the offtopic question, but I think this is the best place to
> find ppl who can help me.

No. It is the best place to prove you're an anti-social fuckwit.

> I'd like to email binary files from scripts.

man metasend

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1023954707.919bc6@...]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:10 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Re: How To Uninstall Daemontools [Was: mails are stuck in the
queue]


* David T. Ashley <dtashley@...> writes:
> Anuerin G. Diaz [mailto:adiaz@...]

>> how do i uninstall the daemon tools?  would it be enough if i just
>> delete the links in the init.d and the run-level directories? i viewd
>> the package/upgrade script and daemontools and came up with this
>> scipt. would running this be enough?

> I have no idea how to uninstall daemontools (or would that be
> "demontools" when applied to RH 7.2?).  It has been too long since
> I did it.  However, I hope another person on the list can give a
> decisive answer.

Always happy to serve:

1. Read the fucking manual or shut up if you have nothing meaningful to
    say.

2. Read the fucking Makefile or don't touch a computer if you're too
    stupid to understand it.

3. If you're too fucking stupid to use an MUA properly, don't post to
    technical mailing lists. And while we're at it, if you're David
    T. Ashtray or Horny Zink, don't post at all. Ever.

And as for Anuerin: Check conf-home in your source dir and remove the
files to be installed from the sources there.

>> since we are the only one talking about this topic, would you mind if
>> i make this a one-on-one consultation?

> To make the statement that we are the only ones discussing this topic
> is too strong of a statement.

No, fuckwit, it's actually not. This is, like, the qmail list, huh-huh,
while, like, daemontools have their, like, own list, y'know?

> I really don't feel comfortable circumventing the list process.

That's a funny way of saying "I give a fuck about email etiquette, so
I'll publish your private mail without your prior permission in the
hope that someone will call me a fucking idiot for doing that, so that
Harry, me and some other sheepshaggers can whine about how rilly, like,
*ARROGANT* the people on the qmail list are."

> Somebody may have additional insight or commentary, and it is best to
> give them a chance to comment.

Gee, thanks, David. Here's my additional insight: you're a fucked up idiot
with the intellectual capacity of a turd. And I apologize to the entire
turddom for making this comparison.

And here's some commentary, too, just to make you happy:
                      FUCK OFF AND DIE. NOW. PLEASE.

> You may even hear from somebody else who had trouble with RH 7.X and
> demontools.

Yeah. It works. Because? Well, the solution is in the archives.

So, David - you have the right to remain silent. Use it.
--

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1014031839.8cc6c6@...]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:46 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Another candidate for a mercy shot (was: Another plea for
civility)


* Anonymous Coward <td@...> writes:

[salesdroid claiming to have read LWQ]
> In my eyes, this is calling me liar. No matter how you want to twist
> it, nor how you meant it, that is what you said.

Yes, it is. Yes, you are. You're also stupid, because you think that 60
people can be wrong and you can't.

> Anyways, my problem still ain't solved,  I'll be sending in a complete
> subscription of my problem soon as I didn't have any time earlier this
> week, due to a huge project that suddenly came up.

Save yourself the trouble. You use a work account, so this is obviously
a production machine. Visit http://qmail.org/top.html#paidsup

[more whining]
> Now I understand most of you people are tired of answering the same
> questions over and over again

No, fuckwit. The problem is not answering those "questions". The problem
is pathetic lusers like your very humble self abusing a technical support
forum for admins. If you're a user, read the docs, the archives, the FAQ
and if *then* something still doesn't work, submit a detailled error
report. If you can't do that, you're not eligible for running a mail
server.

If you're an admin incapable of submitting meaningful messages, get an
MCSE, rape sheep, hug trees, visit pottery classes - whatever, but don't
ever touch a computer.

> (which is understandable, perhaps not diserable, but understandable).

Who cares? You don't even have a name. Who the fuck are you to tell me
what is understandable?

> Perhaps someone can form some default replies to that,

Yes, We're anxiously awaiting your submissions.

> it would be faster, once done ofcourse, to just send one of those
> standard forms than typing inline every time to read life with qmail.

The answers are already there. To name but a few:

  * http://cr.yp.to/
  * RTFM
  * RTFFAQ
  * RTFArchives

If you're an admin, you shouldn't need those but they'll solve your
problem. If you're an idiot, don't touch a computer.

> Also, (this is not meant to piss anyone off so please :-)) none of us is
> obligated to remain on this list.

Indeed. Please fuck off now. Thanks many in advance.
--
<Ceren> I EXPRESS MY ANGER THROUGH POTTERY
<Ceren> AND POETRY
<Ceren> AND COCKSUCKING

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Delany [mailto:markd-qmail@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:45 PM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Re: CNAME lookup failed ...


On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 04:01:00PM -0000, Ed Campbell allegedly wrote:
> Telling someone they should look in the damn archives is not keeping
> a civil tongue. Not to disparage your culture but you may think it is not
> rude, but cultures vary across the world.

Sermonizing is also considered rude in some cultures. So, what were
you're words again?  Oh yes:

> When sending an email to a list that may have various cultural
> diversities one should be non- descript in an answer.

Have you considered following you own advice?


Regards.

-----Original Message-----
From: Galbraith, Mark [mailto:Mark.Galbraith@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:36 PM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Another plea for civility (was RE: CNAME lookup failed ...)


At the risk of pouring fuel on this fire, I would like to make a suggestion.
Instead of invective, what we need are clear, concise instructions for our
new members.  A later respondant in this thread pointed out the FAQ, which
is a good start.  Indirect pointers to the archive can be found there, but
it is not as clear as it should be.  Perhaps we should point people to the
actual link, rather than just telling them to search the archive.  It is
easier and quicker to have a canned message pointing them to the FAQ and the
Archive.

Finally, a plea for civility.  Don't curse at people, teach them.  As any
teacher will tell you, teachers get almost as much out of teaching as the
people receiving the instruction.  That's why most people become teachers.
It sure isn't for the money.  Treat people the way you would want to be
treated if the situations were reversed.  If not because it is the civil
thing to do, do it because we should strive for some level of professional
courtesy.  Remember, we all started out as newbies.

--
Mark Galbraith
Managed Services Engineer, Annuncio Hosting
divine Managed Services, divine, inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Henning Brauer [mailto:lists-qmail@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:47 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Re: CNAME lookup failed ...


On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:25:23PM -0000, Ed Campbell wrote:
> I sent the following to the list last week but got no reply. If there is
> anyone that can help, it would be greatly appreciated.

1) it is useless to repost. we got your message.
2) search the damn archives. this pops up regularly.

--
| Henning Brauer  | PGP-Key: http://misc.bsws.de/hb/pubkey.asc
| BS Web Services | Roedingsmarkt 14, 20459 Hamburg, DE | http://bsws.de
Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity.
(Dennis Ritchie)

-----Original Message-----
From: David T. Ashley [mailto:dtashley@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:32 PM
To: qmail@...
Subject: RE: Help - incorrect locals file


Hi Robin,

Well, there are some conspicuous omissions from the etiquette list.

a)How about the etiquette of sending people open-ended threats via private
e-mail, as in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worst_of_qmail/message/19

b)How about the etiquette of using profanity, such as the word "c###", see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worst_of_qmail/message/25

c)How about the etiquette of marking your e-mails as high priority when they
are not?

d)How about the etiquette of including mail fields like "Your computer has
been infected with a virus" in e-mails?

Robin, in essence you're a serial killer who is trying to pronounce moral
judgement on a shoplifter.

Best regards, Dave.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1013151732.e15e68@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:05 AM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: Help - incorrect locals file
>
>
> * Charles Warwick <CharlesW@...> writes:
> > 1.  (*) text/plain          ( ) text/html
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your message is 147 lines long
>
> > My quoting was correct, your attempt to fix it wasn't!
>
> Spam Is Not the Worst of It - Email etiquette and related gripes [000901]
>      http://unquietmind.com/email.html
>      This lists about 20 annoyances with examples and an additional
>      "annoyance meter". A fun read.
>      Author: Unquiet Minds unquiet@...
>
> Emily Postnews [961028]
>      http://www.clari.net/brad/emily.html
>      "Emily Postnews, foremost authority on proper net behaviour, gives
>      her advice on how to act on the net." A classical text on Email
>      etiquette. Translated versions available in French, German,
>      Italian, and Dutch.
>      Author: Brad Templeton.
>
> "E-Mail Etiquette" [961028]
>      http://www.iwillfollow.com/email.htm
>      Hints about style, abbreviations, smilies, salutations, signatures,
>      threads, quoting the relevant, privacy, flames, addressing with
>      other nets, and spams.
>
> "Business Netiquette International" [981006]
>      http://www.bspage.com/1netiq/Netiq.html
>      Some rules to follow with business email. Author: Frederick Pearce
>      fpearce@...
>
> "FAQ: What is quoting?" [000821]
>      http://home.online.no/~vidaandr/news/FAQquoting.html
>      Authors: Vidar Andreassen vidaandr@..., Jan Ingvoldstad
>      jani@..., Arve Løken elan@..., Lars Syrstad
>      lars@...
>
> Of Proper Quoting [010126]
>      http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html
>      Colorized quoted text to show how quoted is read.
>      Author: Timo Salmi ts@...
>
> All from Good Old Sven's page at
> http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/user/guckes/mail/edit.html aka
> http://learn.to/edit_messages/
>
> You've just violated each and every one of these. Please don't:
>
> - send me private email;
> - send private email as a Cc: to people who are obviously subscribed;
> - send OT messages to the list (this one is also one - a postmaster
>   really should know better, Charles).
>

----------
From: Brett Randall <brett@...>
Organization: InterPlanetary Solutions
Date: 31 Jan 2002 12:00:52 +1100
To: "David T. Ashley" <dtashley@...>
Cc: qmail@...
Subject: Re: Re[2]: A plea to the list membership

>>>>> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:07:27 -0500, "David T. Ashley"
<dtashley@...> said:

> Dave, In good humor, let me point out that there actually already is
> a "worst of qmail" list, which I started in good humor.

Oh yes. "Worst of qmail". That is about as positive as me criticising
Harry's ability to speak English... An eye for an eye? Tell you
what... When I start seeing my name appearing on a "Worst of qmail"
list, although I don't give a rats about it, it shows that someone is
indeed using it for their own ego building. A "Best of qmail" list
would be more appt. I want to laugh at the clever criticisms and
raunchy comebacks, not see what the criticisee feels is mean or said
in angst. How boring.
--
"Double your drive space - delete Windows!"

- Bumper Sticker

-----Original Message-----
From: Felix von Leitner [mailto:leitner@...]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 7:49 PM
To: David T. Ashley
Subject: Re: [OT] good FTP server software?


Thus spake David T. Ashley (dtashley@...):
> Felix,

David, I don't want to be read by you.  You are the bane of this mailing
list, together with Harry.  The world would be a better place if you
just went to the mountains and died in peace.

If you are too stupid to read bugtraq yourself, there are several
searchable mailing list archives and google will find them for you.

If you are even too stupid to ask google yourself, then fuck off and
die.  It's that easy.  This is not grouphug united, this is a technical
mailing list.  You are obviously not equipped for technical discussions
IQ-wise.  Get lost.

Oh, and learn how to quote, so you don't look this stupid on the next
mailing list you plague like a swarm of locusts.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1009181089.5161ab@...]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 5:03 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Jesus loves you... (was: OT: Hard And Fast List Policy For What
To Do Before Asking For Support)


* David T Ashley <dtashley@...> writes:

> To be honest,

No need to tell us that you usually lie. And if you want to show that it is
your honest intent to use this list for technical purposes, keep the flames
where they belong. Here: http://templeofhate.com/story/2001/12/21/5119/9907

> I do not completely understand your post.

That's because you are stupid. And with that, I mean that you're stupid
even for an American high-school student.

> The problem is that the qmail list does not have a policy.

Unless stated otherwise, each and every lists on this planet sticks to
http://www.gweep.ca/~edmonds/usenet/ml-etiquette.html and its derivatives.

> The lack of a hard and fast list policy is the real problem.

No. Your lack of technical expertise is the problem. You've violating
every single paragraph of the above document. Now, one should never
attritbute to malice what can - quite easily in your case - be explained
by mere stupidity. What strikes one as quite odd, though, is that
despite your repeated vows not to abuse this list for your ego-tripping
including spreading of false information, tree hugging, fraternizing
with the other intellectual lepers, you are still:

* using a Microsoft virus distribution program to submit your shit;
* quoting entire messages below your shit;
* sending personal copies in addidition to the shit we already receive
   from you via the list;
* keep submitting shit. Off topic or technically incorrect shit. Stupid,
   superfluous, this-is-in-the-archives-at-least-100000-times shit.

> If you would like to write back and say that I did something wrong, I
> do encourage that.

Understandably because your primary concern is to destroy this list.

> But in your post as written, it is hard for me to understand exactly
> what I did that disappointed you.

David, it would appear that many things are hard for you to
understand. What I don't understand, though, is that you have to share
your intellectual shortcomings with the members of a technical mailing
list. If I were the list owner I would have kicked you (and me, too, for
off topic postings) off the list almost immediately.

> I hope this reply is equally courteous.

No, David, it isn't. It is off topic, boring and contains high amounts
of whining.

In short: Jesus loves you, David. Everyone else thinks you're a cunt.

Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:39:18 +0100
From: Felix von Leitner <leitner@...>
To: Harry <laharryZ@...>
Subject: Re: [OT] good FTP server software?


Thus spake Harry (laharryZ@...):
> I would suggest that you would limit your contributions to creative
> criticism. Nothing wrong with a suggestion that a product is bad, but you
> should accompany it with a constructive recommendation for an alternative.

Harry, I have killfiled you on the list, and now I have killfiled you
off the list.

Due to your creative use of mac.com addresses, I have even killfiled the
whole domain plus fizbin.  Now please fuck off and die.  Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: David T. Ashley [mailto:dtashley@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:18 PM
To: qmail@...
Subject: RE: How to destroy a mailing list


Hi Uwe,

OK, then I have a favor to ask of you (and everyone else on this list, for
that matter).

What has always amazed me about the qmail list is that even among the people
who want to pick on poor Dave, poor Harry, and poor cash_money_millionaire,
there seem to be really three camps:

a)Those that just start swinging, using profanity, and alluding to very
general tendencies (and nearly always the allusions are unsubstantiated).
Many of these posts are immoralized at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worst_of_qmail/

b)Those that don't have the originality, the courage, or the cleverness to
mount their own personal attack [as in (a)] or to make legitimate points [as
in (c)], and simply try to pour fuel on the fire.  These people are as
pathetic as someone who tries to side with whoever is winning in a fight.

c)Those that make legitimate points, and don't introduce irrelevant
material.

Unfortunately above, these groups are listed in order of decreasing
frequency.

So, if you want to pick on poor Dave, poor Harry, or poor
cash_money_millionaire, this is great.  But I need to ask a few favors of
you:

1)Please say _specifically_ what you are picking on poor Dave, poor Harry,
or poor cash_money_millionaire about.  It should not be general tendencies.
It should be a specific e-mail post, or specific thoughts or words.  Please
if you can copy and paste the ideas that you disagree with out of the
original post and include it in yours.

2)Please don't introduce extraneous material or profanity into your post.
For example, Robin's post from this morning actually included some very good
points (screwing up the archives, too many off-topic posts), but it is hard
to pick out the relevant points when they are surrounded by more general
concepts (like "You suck").

Your post is in category (b) above.

Please say something in your post.

To say that poor Dave, poor Harry, and poor cash_money_millionaire aren't
worth 80 characters is entertaining.  But it isn't concrete enough.  Please
cite a specific offense and a specific instance, and provide excerpts.

Best regards, Dave.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Uwe Ohse [mailto:uwe@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:23 PM
> To: qmail@...
> Subject: Re: How to destroy a mailing list
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 03:32:21PM +0100, Henning Brauer wrote:
>
> > |if /usr/local/bin/822field from | grep -i LAHarryZ@...;
> then exit 99; fi
>
> grep -wi -f ~/lib/djb-qmail-badlist && echo filtered && exit 99 ; exit 0
> There's a place for Harry, DTA and cash_money_millionaire.
>
>
> Although i begin to think that i have to enter the message-IDs of the fil-
> tered messages to some kind of cache and will have to delete mails contai-
> ning one of these IDs in in-reply-to. Though i would hate to do
> this since
> even together these guys are not worth more than 80 characters.
>
> Regards, Uwe
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Brett P.Randall [mailto:qmail@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:14 AM
To: Harry
Cc: Robin S. Socha; qmail@...
Subject: Re: How to destroy a mailing list


>>>>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:45:12 -0800, Harry <laharryZ@...> said:

> Oh, and please keep off topic posts off the list. Posts advocating
> physical threats and violence to others are not only off-topic, but
> also quite illegal in some households.

Harry, you came onto this list and inadvertently started splurting
lies, unproven facts, stories to raise people's tempers, and
judgements on the much-respected, very smart yet masochistic rulers of
the world who dwell in this forum. You tried to enforce rules that you
can't decide whether or not you will follow, and are telling people
who we enjoy reading of to nick off. You haven't earnt any respect on
this list and as such you will never be listened to with the respect
that brings openness to change.

So, buzz off.

Brett.
--
FATAL SYSTEM ERROR: Press F13 to continue...

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:highpriest@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:07 AM
To: nancyboys@...; fornerboys@...
Cc: David T. Ashley
Subject: Re: ["David T. Ashley" <dtashley@...>] RE: How
to destroy a mailing list (was: [OT] good FTP server software?)


* David T Ashley <dtashley@...> writes:

> You are confusing me.  You don't mean "take care" of as in like erase,
> rub out, that kind of thing?

You'll notice soon enough. And don't ever send email to my private
account again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Cazabon [mailto:qmail@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:27 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Re: How to destroy a mailing list (was: [OT] good FTP server
software?)


Jamin W. Collins <jcollins@...> wrote:
> On Tue, 2001-12-18 at 07:30, David T. Ashley wrote:
>
> > I'm reasonable and I'll listen.
>
> This has yet to be seen.

No, it's been seen.  At least two other people tried to deal with David
Ashley privately before I tried.  I then had quite a drawn-out
conversation with him, wherein I repeated pleaded with him not to post
his wild-ass guesses to the list as if they were facts.  What I got in
response were ad hominem attacks on some of the most respected members
of the qmail list and a complete failure to address any of the conerns I
brought up.

I'm afraid I've had to plonk David's messages; I simply do not have time
to correct all of his inaccuracies that he posts to this list, but I
cannot read his tripe and let it go unchallenged.  The only solution,
therefore, is to prevent messages from him from reaching my mailbox.
I urge others to do the same; the fewer replies to his crap, the better
the list will be.

The real point of this message, however, is to ensure there is a clear
indication in the qmail mailing list archives for future newbies in
search of answers:  ignore any technical advice about qmail from David
T. Ashley.  Occasionally he's correct, more frequently he's incorrect,
and sometimes he's just completely out in left field, but you have no
way of knowing which when reading his "diagnoses".

Charles
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon                            <qmail@...>
GPL'ed software available at:  http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1008943948.aa384e@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:15 AM
To: nancyboys@...; fornerboys@...
Cc: David T. Ashley
Subject: Re: ["David T. Ashley" <dtashley@...>] RE: How
to destroy a mailing list (was: [OT] good FTP server software?)


* David T Ashley <dtashley@...> writes:

> I need to ask you again, are you threatening me?

My, my... but we *are* being impatient today, aren't we?  No, David, I'm
not threatening you. I don't need to. We know what we're doing, and we
usually do it quickly, efficently and without leaving any traces. So
there realy isn't any need to worry for you, David. You'll never even
notice we've been there...

-----Original Message-----
From: Harry [mailto:laharryZ@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:45 PM
To: Robin S. Socha; qmail@...
Subject: Re: How to destroy a mailing list


on 12/18/01 6:38 AM, Robin S. Socha at
robin-dated-1008945280.2968a9@... wrote:

> And what they'll find is the Davids and
> Harrys of this planet deliberately destroying a technical list by
> spreading errors, lies, insults, and off topic shit.

Ah, yes, but the Robin Sochas of this planet destroying self-same list with
OT personal attacks, insults and drivel is okay, apparently.

You can't have it both ways, kid.

Oh, and please keep off topic posts off the list. Posts advocating physical
threats and violence to others are not only off-topic, but also quite
illegal in some households.

> The archives are already more or less dead. Whoever runs this list
> should *never* have lifted the ban on Microsoft MUAs.

Jawohl, mein Führer... und next we will also outlaw people from posting on
the list that do not fit the profile of the master-race, right, kid?

Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin S. Socha [mailto:robin-dated-1008945280.2968a9@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:39 AM
To: qmail@...
Subject: Re: How to destroy a mailing list


* Charles Cazabon <qmail@...> writes:

> The only solution, therefore, is to prevent messages from him from
> reaching my mailbox.  I urge others to do the same; the fewer replies
> to his crap, the better the list will be.

That is not correct. The only solution[1] is to set this list to
read-only. While Dave's list is a good idea in itself, most people will
come *here* for help first. And what they'll find is the Davids and
Harrys of this planet deliberately destroying a technical list by
spreading errors, lies, insults, and off topic shit.

> The real point of this message, however, is to ensure there is a clear
> indication in the qmail mailing list archives for future newbies in
> search of answers: ignore any technical advice about qmail from David
> T. Ashley.  Occasionally he's correct, more frequently he's incorrect,
> and sometimes he's just completely out in left field, but you have no
> way of knowing which when reading his "diagnoses".

The archives are already more or less dead. Whoever runs this list
should *never* have lifted the ban on Microsoft MUAs.

Footnotes:
[1]  There are others, but it's a long way to the US. I encourage anyone
      living near David to, well, fix this situation...
      http://www.templeofhate.com/poll/1008677746_gozyFoVO