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Answers to some WTL Questions   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #5419 of 16191 |
Hi,

My name is Pranish Kumar and I work on the Visual C++ Libraries
Team. I wanted to make a posting that would hopefully answer many of
the questions people have asked about WTL. We appreciate feedback on
the message, particularly in what you would like to see happen with
WTL, for example how many of you would be interested in supporting
it as an open source project?

WTL has had an unusual time in Microsoft. It was shipped as an
unsupported sample in the Platform SDK, a state in which it has
remained. Over the years a user-base has built up around WTL, with
support being provided through non-standard channels.

Many WTL users ask us why we don't support WTL as an official
Microsoft product. There are a number of issues with this, but one
of the major ones is the work required to make WTL an official,
supported product. WTL requires documentation to be written from
scratch, the creation of a complete test suite and testing harness,
and the addition of knowledgeable support personnel to the Microsoft
official support channels. There would also likely be significant
changes to the library itself as we moved it forward to the latest
version of ATL and the compiler.

The cost of doing this work is several-fold, firstly it would likely
take up all the ATLMFC team resources for a full release to complete
this upgrade. The only visible differences for WTL users would be
Microsoft support and documentation as well as some bug fixes, for
existing ATLMFC users there would be no new features.

Because almost every WTL user we talk to today is extremely happy
with the library, and because of the importance of continuing to
develop ATLMFC, we do not think that productizing WTL is the best
use of our resources. WTL has solved problems for a portion of VC++
customers through its current release mechanism, this makes it
difficult to justify spending the significant effort required to
make it a supported product. Also the WTL community would need to
realize the disadvantages as well as the advantages of having a
productized WTL, some issues that come to mind include frequency of
releases, bug fixing process and working through official support
channels.

Having said this, the ATLMFC team is always looking to support our
customers in the best way possible, if it turns out that there is an
increased need amongst existing ATLMFC customers for WTL, or that
there is a way to productize WTL without incurring the large
overhead, then we would definitely reconsider our position.

Related to this the team is investigating various ways that we can
improve the experience for WTL users without incurring the
prohibitive overhead. Some of the possibilities we are investigating
include modifying the licensing for WTL so that the WTL community
could support itself with a shared-source project.

The ATLMFC and smart devices teams are also working closely together
to provide a better solution for our customers. In the next release
of Visual Studio, native c++ development for smart devices will be
integrated into the Visual Studio shell. The devices team is also
investigating what role WTL will play in the eVC space.

Hopefully this answers most of your questions and concerns, expect
to hear more from the Visual C++ team on where we are going with the
language and libraries in the not too distant future.

Thanks,

Pranish Kumar
pranishk@...






Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:16 pm

pranish_kumar
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Forward
Message #5419 of 16191 |
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Hi, My name is Pranish Kumar and I work on the Visual C++ Libraries Team. I wanted to make a posting that would hopefully answer many of the questions people...
pranish_kumar
Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2003
11:16 pm

... Hey Pranish. I preserved your verbiage here: http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?WindowsTemplateLibrary ... WAR WHOOPS! AIR PUNCHES! -- Phlip ...
Phlip
phlipcpp
Offline Send Email
Apr 11, 2003
11:26 pm

The cost of doing this work is several-fold, firstly it would likely take up all the ATLMFC team resources for a full release to complete this upgrade. The...
Adrian Latinak - http...
www_wtlzone_com
Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2003
1:47 am

Hi Pranish, Good initiative! I, personally, think you're on the right track here. WTL is great for building desktop apps in C++, but it isn't as...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
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Apr 12, 2003
10:04 am

... I have this friend who uses WTL for multiple shrink-wrapped international internationalized localized enterprise client-server and desktop GUIs. ... "Free...
Phlip
phlipcpp
Offline Send Email
Apr 13, 2003
2:40 am

Hi Phlip, ... for ... MFC, ... in ... I knew you would say that, hence the parentheses ;) Thanks for the update on licenses. Cheers, Kim...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
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Apr 13, 2003
7:05 am

Sorry for the bad subject, also sorry for condensing everyone's questions into one response, but it makes it easier. I originally started including each...
pranish_kumar
Offline Send Email
Apr 15, 2003
1:41 am

... Thanks Pranish. Is there any hope y'all will do anything to solve the group's Yahoo! angst? Tim...
Tim Tabor
tltabor
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Apr 15, 2003
2:22 am

Hello, I have being following this thread with interest. Kumar's comments makes another interesting contribution. This is how I see it, .NET will not cut it on...
Paul Selormey
pegroups
Offline Send Email
Apr 15, 2003
9:53 am

Hi Pranish, sounds to me like where getting somewhere. I think that the general feeling is that Microsoft may need a solution for WinCE and other embedded...
Mark A. Gregory
magregory63
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Apr 15, 2003
10:12 am

Pranish, ... Thank-you very much for taking the time to contact us, go through all the conversations and then provide a response. I look forward to hearing...
devcheese
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Apr 15, 2003
10:53 am

I wanted to respond while this thread of discussion was still running. Our company uses WTL as the application framework for a suite of GUI applications and...
soulofsealion
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Apr 15, 2003
12:54 pm

Hi Pranish, I think your response is rather predictable and I'm extremely disappointed. 1. Microsoft is a company with many Billions of US dollars in the bank....
Mark A. Gregory
magregory63
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Apr 13, 2003
4:55 am

Hi, I'm not often moved to post here, but I have a different point of view to that already expressed. First, a bit of background. We use WTL in a number of our...
Matthew W. Adams
mwa10005497
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Apr 13, 2003
1:25 pm

Hi Matthew, There are more than a few problems with your argument. 1. MS has about 50 Billion in the bank, probably many 100's of billions in turnover. 2. Your...
Mark A. Gregory
magregory63
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Apr 13, 2003
1:45 pm

... Hi Mark, Could you specify what you mean by "$50 billion in the bank" ? Is that ca$h, unissued stock, Bill Gate's personal fortune, or something else? I...
Rick Parrish
hotsolder
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Apr 13, 2003
9:39 pm

Hi, 1. This is an aside, but I don't think it matters how much money MS have got in the bank. It is how much they are prepared to invest in the division which...
Matthew W. Adams
mwa10005497
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Apr 13, 2003
3:08 pm

Cash. I read this when they issued a dividend recently. It is a lot of money and they can afford to support WTL. cheers Mark ... From: Rick Parrish...
Mark A. Gregory
magregory63
Offline Send Email
Apr 14, 2003
12:30 am

... Oh goody. They can afford to spend lots of money on the kinds of CHM files, magazine articles, example applications, and CDs that I always completely...
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Apr 14, 2003
1:26 am

I really appreciate Pranish's post. The amount of money Microsoft have doesn't really matters. Microsoft is a money making company not a give-away one. I...
Yarp
yarp2002
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Apr 14, 2003
6:55 am

Wow, I thougth WTL was completely off the MS radar. An open-source project sounds like a perfect fit to me. I would think that something like WTL would be a...
David A. Ferguson
fergusondavid
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Apr 14, 2003
12:36 pm

... Microsoft ... I think it would be a great start for Microsoft to provide some form of officially sanctioned discussion forum. Yahoo groups is advertising...
devcheese
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Apr 14, 2003
1:15 pm

... Absolutely agree. PLEASE. ... Not sure what this means. WTL could certainly be more compatible w/ ATL 7 (attributes and the new ATL classes), but I...
Tim Tabor
tltabor
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Apr 14, 2003
6:22 pm

Hi Tim, ... I hate Yahoo as much as the next guy, but there cannot be any money in it for Microsoft to run a listserver for the relatively small population of...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
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Apr 14, 2003
6:41 pm

... I dunno about the economics of lists. If they don't want to walk away from the product entirely, perhaps they can add it to one of the servers they...
Tim Tabor
tltabor
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Apr 14, 2003
7:20 pm

Tim, ... I suppose Pranish has input on this, I can't really tell, apart from what I know about the destiny of the ATL list. ... Now, _that_ would be nice. I...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
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Apr 14, 2003
7:38 pm

Hi, ... w/ ... Sorry for the confusion, I'm not claiming that it is not compatible, simply responding to the comment that there would be work to be done in...
devcheese
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Apr 14, 2003
9:08 pm

We use it at sonic solutions for our UIs and love it for our skinning implementation. The use of templates has made our UI engine easier to implement. It needs...
Scott Andrew
scottandrew
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Apr 15, 2003
12:22 am

Hy, so far I know, there is something like WTL for Smartphones... Bernhard ... From: "David A. Ferguson" <DavidAFerguson_ng@...> To:...
Bernhard Döbler
bardnet
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Apr 14, 2003
1:16 pm
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