> following that, the use of other languages might be a considerably
> benefit - e.g. spanish, chinese and hopi spring to mind

Add Dineh (Navaho), don't want to inflame the Joint-Use Area conflict
any further, though Hopi do go Republican (those who "vote"), unlike
the majority of Dinetah and away-Dineh voters. Bear in mind that the
core of claims by Indigenous Peoples in the current and former British
North America and their successor states, apply to the English Crown
(in Right of Canada, and unsevered by the Treaty of Paris), and do not
make reference to theories of (immigrant) civil rights or equity.

We'd still like a recount, thanks awfully, even if conducted in English.

Kitakitamatsinopowaw, (see you again, probably someplace cold),
Eric

In message <12958.978626648@...>, Jon Crowcroft writes:
>
>some of the folks on this list aren't american or US citezens and
>might think that this is a bit presumptious.....but here goes:-

I think you're over-assuming -- from looking at the Web site, I did not
get the impression that this was in any way organized by the White
House.  It looks like something that Clift is organizing on his own.
(Steven Clift, am I wrong on that point?  Is this being done by request
of the incoming administration?)
>
>the first thing the white house should do is educate its customers and
>organise voting properly

Sigh.
>
>the next thing it should do is apply for membership of the European
>Union

I doubt they'd want us, though if they did it would end the problem of
the Euro dropping with respect to the dollar...
>

		 --Steve Bellovin

Yes, as noted in the invite, this is unofficial.

"This is a strictly unofficial activity. Content from the online event will
be made available to White House officials and the public."

You don't want to create such an event on shoulders of White House web
developers ... particularly when they are crazy getting something ready.  I
had planned to do this in December ... when the content would be more
easily absorbed, oh well!

Steven Clift


At 12:24 PM 1/4/01 -0500, you wrote:
>In message <12958.978626648@...>, Jon Crowcroft writes:
> >
> >some of the folks on this list aren't american or US citezens and
> >might think that this is a bit presumptious.....but here goes:-
>
>I think you're over-assuming -- from looking at the Web site, I did not
>get the impression that this was in any way organized by the White
>House.  It looks like something that Clift is organizing on his own.
>(Steven Clift, am I wrong on that point?  Is this being done by request
>of the incoming administration?)
> >
> >the first thing the white house should do is educate its customers and
> >organise voting properly
>
>Sigh.
> >
> >the next thing it should do is apply for membership of the European
> >Union
>
>I doubt they'd want us, though if they did it would end the problem of
>the Euro dropping with respect to the dollar...
> >
>
>                 --Steve Bellovin

Hi all,

This message has been posted to the w3's list and to the technical support
for different major search engines. Please reply to the list (I will commit
the messages send only to me).

Simply put, let say that http://www.name.com is a pointer to 8 different
document (4 locales: en-us, en-ca, fr-ca, es-us. 2 document type: html, wml).

There is no translation, the content for the locales is COMPLETELY unrelated.

There is a link to switch to the 3 other locales on all the pages (both wml
and html).

The transparent content negotiation is based on the accept* and the
user-agent HTTP headers.

If there is no match in the available permutations (locales x dtd), or if
there is nothing specified, the default locale is en-us and the default DTD
is html.

Here are my questions:

Q1: Does the indexing robots make use of the content negotiation parameters
(http headers)? If so, in what way?

Q2: Does the search engines return result URIs from documents that were
obtained with a robot using content negotiation parameters (http headers)
that match those of the user?
ie: Would a spanish user get http://www.name.com  (not
http://www.name.com/index.es.html, the link to the spanish section from
other locales) for keywords on the spanish version?

thanks,

vincent

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Vincent-Olivier Arsenault wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This message has been posted to the w3's list and to the technical support
> for different major search engines. Please reply to the list (I will commit
> the messages send only to me).
>
> Simply put, let say that http://www.name.com is a pointer to 8 different
> document (4 locales: en-us, en-ca, fr-ca, es-us. 2 document type: html, wml).
>
> There is no translation, the content for the locales is COMPLETELY unrelated.
>
> There is a link to switch to the 3 other locales on all the pages (both wml
> and html).
>
> The transparent content negotiation is based on the accept* and the
> user-agent HTTP headers.
>
> If there is no match in the available permutations (locales x dtd), or if
> there is nothing specified, the default locale is en-us and the default DTD
> is html.
>
> Here are my questions:
>
> Q1: Does the indexing robots make use of the content negotiation parameters
> (http headers)? If so, in what way?
>
> Q2: Does the search engines return result URIs from documents that were
> obtained with a robot using content negotiation parameters (http headers)
> that match those of the user?
> ie: Would a spanish user get http://www.name.com  (not
> http://www.name.com/index.es.html, the link to the spanish section from
> other locales) for keywords on the spanish version?

I am not a robot author but I did work on content negotiation standards.

For Q1, my guess here is that robots do not currently use much of the
content negotiation parameters, if at all. Negotiation can be done at the
server in many ways, and in general there is no reliable way in which a
robot could make sense of all cases. The transparent content negotiation
specification does have a mechanism (the Alternates response header) which
would allow a robot to learn a lot about the structure of the negotiated
content, but servers will not always produce this header.  If negotiation
is done with mod_negotiation in newer version of Apache, the robot *can*
get the Alternates header if it wants to, I don't know if any current
robots use this facility.  Mod_negotiation does not currently support
user-agent header based negotiation so for many advanced cases of
negotiation I expect there is still a lot of hand-coding in servers,
without the option of getting an alternates header. All in all my answer
to Q2 is: the engine will probably return the link to the spanish section,
not the http://www.name.com link.

>
> thanks,
>
> vincent

Koen.

We apologize if you receive multiple copies of this email !

FIRST EUROPEAN CONFERENCE ON UIML ( User Interface Markup Language )


			 UIML    EUROPE    2001

		 Ecole Nationale des arts et Metiers

		 151 boulevard de l'Hôpital, Paris, France

			     March 8-9 2001

UIML (User Interface Markup Language) is a new language - conforming to XML -
for describing graphic user interfaces in a way that is independant of
peripherals. These interfaces
may contain lists, buttons, menus, and other application controls, and UIML also
describes their event-driven interactions with the application.. Renderers can
translate the UIML
description into HTML, WML, JAVA ...

UIML is intended for all professionnal developpers of graphical interfaces :
Web, specific applications, WAP ...

Discovering UIML : the first European conference dedicated to UIML:

To promote UIML and its usage in Europe, the authors of the language, together
with European university or industry experts, join their efforts and organise
the first European conference
dedicated to UIML. It will present the following elements :

       Overview of UIML
       Technical presentation
       First examples of usage and applications
       Learning UIML : demonstrations and tutorials.

This conference is intended for industry and business developpers who are
interested or active in the development of GUIs, and also for actors in the
University (teachers,
students) and Research communities.

Talks will be given by the designers of the language from Virginia Tech
University (http://www.vt.edu/) and from Harmonia, Inc. (
http://www.Harmonia.com ), and also by European
experts with the support of the DESS Ingénierie Documentaire et Multimedia of
the University of Evry in France, the Aristote association,, and other entities.

Registration is FREE but MANDATORY on the Web site of the conference :

    http://www.aristote.asso.fr/sem/sem0101UIML-en.html

where you can download the program of the conference

For all further information, please contact :

        ARISTOTE Association

Phone : + 33 1 69 33 43 86
Fax   : + 33 1 69 33 30 35
Email : Marie.Tetard@...
Web   : http://www.aristote.asso.fr

Hi Fish (and all W3C mailing list),
I saw in the W3C mailing list your comment on the content-length in
multipart/mixed.
I think you are very expert of this argument and then I'd like to ask you
how to calculate the value of the content-length in a multipart/related
type.
I have to send to a Wap Gateway an HTTP message where the content is a
multipart/related type; so this message must contain the content-length
header.

This is and example:

POST /cgi-bin/wap_push.cgi HTTP/1.1
Host: www.wireless-network.com
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:13:23 GMT
Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=asdlfkjiurwghasf;
type="application/xml"
Content-Length: (???????????)

--asdlfkjiurwghasf
Content-Type: application/xml
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE pap PUBLIC "-//WAPFORUM//DTD PAP 1.0//EN"
"http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/pap_1.0.dtd">
<pap>
..control..
</pap>

--asdlfkjiurwghasf
Content-Type: text/vnd.wap.wml
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE WML PUBLIC "-//WAPFORUM//DTD WML 1.1//EN"
"http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/wml_1.1.xml">
<wml>
<card>
<p>Hello world!</p>
</card>
</wml>
--asdlfkjiurwghasf--

The rows of the boundary (called "--asdlfkjiurwghasf") are included in the
content-length value?
And the rows called "Content-Type: application/xml" and
"Content-Type: text/vnd.wap.wml"?

Thanks in advance. (and sorry for my bad English)
Luca from Italy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: www-talk-request@... [mailto:www-talk-request@...]On Behalf
> Of Luca Di Luzio
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 4:48 AM
> To: fish@...
> Cc: www-talk@...
> Subject: Content-Length in multipart/related
>
>
> Hi Fish (and all W3C mailing list),

Hi. :)

> I saw in the W3C mailing list your comment on the content-length in
> multipart/mixed.
> I think you are very expert of this argument and then I'd like to ask you
> how to calculate the value of the content-length in a multipart/related
> type.
> I have to send to a Wap Gateway an HTTP message where the content is a
> multipart/related type; so this message must contain the content-length
> header.
>
> This is and example:
>
> POST /cgi-bin/wap_push.cgi HTTP/1.1
> Host: www.wireless-network.com
> Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:13:23 GMT
> Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=asdlfkjiurwghasf;
> type="application/xml"
> Content-Length: (???????????)
>
> --asdlfkjiurwghasf
> Content-Type: application/xml
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <!DOCTYPE pap PUBLIC "-//WAPFORUM//DTD PAP 1.0//EN"
> "http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/pap_1.0.dtd">
> <pap>
> ..control..
> </pap>
>
> --asdlfkjiurwghasf
> Content-Type: text/vnd.wap.wml
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <!DOCTYPE WML PUBLIC "-//WAPFORUM//DTD WML 1.1//EN"
> "http://www.wapforum.org/DTD/wml_1.1.xml">
> <wml>
> <card>
> <p>Hello world!</p>
> </card>
> </wml>
> --asdlfkjiurwghasf--
>
> The rows of the boundary (called "--asdlfkjiurwghasf") are included in the
> content-length value?

Yes.

> And the rows called "Content-Type: application/xml" and
> "Content-Type: text/vnd.wap.wml"?

Yes.

> Thanks in advance. (and sorry for my bad English)
> Luca from Italy

The content of an HTTP message can be anything you want. Anything. But the
Content-Length header MUST specify the exact length of that content. In your
case the content is actually a multipart message surrounded by certain boundary
strings, but HTTP doesn't know or care.

Consider the following [rather unrealistic but nonetheless illustrative]
analogy: You want to send each of your three friends (who live in another city)
a box of chocolate. Each box weighs 2 kilograms.

Your address each box to the appropriate person, and then to be sure none of
them melt before they get there, you put all three of them inside a small
refrigerator (with lots of ice). The refrigerator itself weighs 25 kilograms.

You then contact the "HTTP Trucking Company" about shipping your package. The
trucking company naturally asks: "What are you shipping, and how much does it
weigh?"

What's the correct answer?

    a. Three boxes of chocolate, total weight: 6 kilograms.
    b. One refrigerator, total weight (including contents): 31 kilograms.

I hope you'll see that the correct answer is b. :)

Thus, the answer to your original question is: the Content-Length would be the
length of ALL data following the HTTP headers, which includes the boundary
strings and MIME headers too (which is just 'data' as far as HTTP is concerned).

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
    fish@...

Greetings,

I experience the following:

<table><tr><td width="30">cell-content</td></tr></table>

If the cell-content does not fit into the specified width, the browser is going
to
render the cell by incrementing the specified width. Can I turn it the other way
round, can I tell the browser to stick to the width and cut the cell-content
instead? I do not care if half of the content will not appear.

Cheers,

Hegyvari Krisztian

one way to do this would be to wrap the content in a DIV and set the
overflow property of the div.

Hegyvari Krisztian wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> I experience the following:
>
> <table><tr><td width="30">cell-content</td></tr></table>
>
> If the cell-content does not fit into the specified width, the browser is
going to
> render the cell by incrementing the specified width. Can I turn it the other
way round, can I tell the browser to stick to the width and cut the cell-content
instead? I do not care if half of the content will not appear.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hegyvari Krisztian
>
>

Hegyvari Krisztian <Hegyvari.Krisztian@...> wrote:

> Can I turn it the other way round, can I tell the browser to
> stick to the width and cut the cell-content instead?

Yes. Give the <table> element the style "table-layout: fixed".

(Usual disclaimer applies, ie. "won't work in Netscape 4".)

Followups probably best sent to Usenet,
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets rather than www-style.

--
Andrew Clover
Technical Support
1VALUE.com AG

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Hegyvari Krisztian wrote:

><table><tr><td width="30">cell-content</td></tr></table>
>
>If the cell-content does not fit into the specified width, the browser is going
to
>render the cell by incrementing the specified width. Can I turn it the other
way round, can I tell the browser to stick to the width and cut the cell-content
instead? I do not care if half of the content will not appear.

Sounds like an application for max-width.

Sampo Syreeni <decoy@...>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university

Hi,

I want to find out what are the Electronic Payment
Protocols existing today and what are their advantages
and disadvantages and their comparison analysis etc.

If anyone has any relevant information in some
document form, kindly help.

Thanks
Bhavesh


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