> following that, the use of other languages might be a considerably
> benefit - e.g. spanish, chinese and hopi spring to mind

Add Dineh (Navaho), don't want to inflame the Joint-Use Area conflict
any further, though Hopi do go Republican (those who "vote"), unlike
the majority of Dinetah and away-Dineh voters. Bear in mind that the
core of claims by Indigenous Peoples in the current and former British
North America and their successor states, apply to the English Crown
(in Right of Canada, and unsevered by the Treaty of Paris), and do not
make reference to theories of (immigrant) civil rights or equity.

We'd still like a recount, thanks awfully, even if conducted in English.

Kitakitamatsinopowaw, (see you again, probably someplace cold),
Eric

some of the folks on this list aren't american or US citezens and
might think that this is a bit presumptious.....but here goes:-

the first thing the white house should do is educate its customers and
organise voting properly

the next thing it should do is apply for membership of the European
Union

following that, the use of other languages might be a considerably
benefit - e.g. spanish, chinese and hopi spring to mind

finally, what fee is being paid for this, and in what (stable)
currency, and under which tax treaty?


:-)

In message <5.0.2.1.0.20010104100007.02a8e260@...>, Steven Clift typed
:

  >>I am looking for a few leading Internet technical experts to contribute
  >>their ideas for an online conference on the *use* of the Internet by the
  >>next White House.  What advancing Internet standards and tools should be
  >>considered?  What would you do if you were in charge?  What could the White
  >>House do to filter and respond to the millions of e-mails it receives in a
  >>more effective manner?  How might syndication and XML strategies be employed?
  >>
  >>If you'd like to contribute a short essay to the event as described below,
  >>please drop me a note <do@...> with your suggested topic area.  -
  >>Steven Clift
  >>
  >>---------------------------------------------------------
  >>  Democracies Online - White House 2001 Online Conference
  >>       Envisioning the Next White House Web Site
  >>---------------------------------------------------------
  >>
  >>Opens with 100 Participants
  >>
  >>An online event through January 18, 2001 to generate ideas and exchange
  >>information on the next White House web site.  What should the next White
  >>House Web site do?  What should it look like?  How should the White House
  >>use online communications strategically to connect with citizens and govern?
  >>
  >>How this facilitated and moderated online exchange will work:
  >>
  >>1. Idea Bullets - Each participant is encouraged to share one short idea
  >>for the next White House web site.
  >>
  >>2. Strategic Essays - Internet leaders and netizens are asked to contribute
  >>short 400-500 word essays covering a specific Internet *use* strategy the
  >>White House should consider. Big ideas and solid advice wanted! These
  >>essays should be submitted to the online event facilitator, Steven Clift
  >><do@...> for review.
  >>
  >>3. General Comments - All participants are encouraged to comment and add to
  >>the ideas sent to the forum. All posts will be moderated with a general
  >>limit of one or two posts per day per person. To keep message volume in
  >>check, some messages may be held one or two days.
  >>
  >>To JOIN the online conference, simply send an e-mail to:
  >>      do-whitehouse-subscribe@egroups.com
  >>
  >>To messages via the web or choose digest options visit:
  >>      http://www.egroups.com/group/do-whitehouse
  >>
  >>To join the 1600 member Democracies Online Newswire moderated announcement
  >>e-mail list, get the full details at: http://www.e-democracy.org/do
  >>
  >>This is a strictly unofficial activity. Content from the online event will
  >>be made available to White House officials and the public.
  >>
  >>Hosted by Steven Clift <http://publicus.net> with the Democracies Online
  >>Newswire
  >><http://e-democracy.org/do>. If your organization would like to Co-Sponsor
  >>this event, all you need to do is bring 20 verified participants to the
  >>forum or send information about the forum to at least 1000 people on an
  >>e-mail list run by your  organization. Contact <do@...> to
  >>co-sponsor this event.
  >>

  cheers

    jon

I am looking for a few leading Internet technical experts to contribute
their ideas for an online conference on the *use* of the Internet by the
next White House.  What advancing Internet standards and tools should be
considered?  What would you do if you were in charge?  What could the White
House do to filter and respond to the millions of e-mails it receives in a
more effective manner?  How might syndication and XML strategies be employed?

If you'd like to contribute a short essay to the event as described below,
please drop me a note <do@...> with your suggested topic area.  -
Steven Clift

---------------------------------------------------------
   Democracies Online - White House 2001 Online Conference
        Envisioning the Next White House Web Site
---------------------------------------------------------

Opens with 100 Participants

An online event through January 18, 2001 to generate ideas and exchange
information on the next White House web site.  What should the next White
House Web site do?  What should it look like?  How should the White House
use online communications strategically to connect with citizens and govern?

How this facilitated and moderated online exchange will work:

1. Idea Bullets - Each participant is encouraged to share one short idea
for the next White House web site.

2. Strategic Essays - Internet leaders and netizens are asked to contribute
short 400-500 word essays covering a specific Internet *use* strategy the
White House should consider. Big ideas and solid advice wanted! These
essays should be submitted to the online event facilitator, Steven Clift
<do@...> for review.

3. General Comments - All participants are encouraged to comment and add to
the ideas sent to the forum. All posts will be moderated with a general
limit of one or two posts per day per person. To keep message volume in
check, some messages may be held one or two days.

To JOIN the online conference, simply send an e-mail to:
       do-whitehouse-subscribe@egroups.com

To messages via the web or choose digest options visit:
       http://www.egroups.com/group/do-whitehouse

To join the 1600 member Democracies Online Newswire moderated announcement
e-mail list, get the full details at: http://www.e-democracy.org/do

This is a strictly unofficial activity. Content from the online event will
be made available to White House officials and the public.

Hosted by Steven Clift <http://publicus.net> with the Democracies Online
Newswire
<http://e-democracy.org/do>. If your organization would like to Co-Sponsor
this event, all you need to do is bring 20 verified participants to the
forum or send information about the forum to at least 1000 people on an
e-mail list run by your  organization. Contact <do@...> to
co-sponsor this event.

Dear Professional, 

You have been selected as a potential candidate for a free listing in 
the  2001 Edition of the International Executive Guild Registry. 

Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor. 

As this edition is so important in view of the new millennium, the 
International Executive Guild Registry will be published in two different 
formats; the searchable CD-ROM and the Online Registry. 

Since inclusion can be considered recognition of your career position 
and professionalism, each candidate is evaluated in keeping with high 
standards of individual achievement. In light of this, the International Executive
Guild thinks that you may make an interesting biographical subject. 

We look forward to your inclusion and appearance in the International 
Executive Guild's Registry. Best wishes for your continued success. 

International Executive Guild 
Listing Dept. 

If you wish to be removed from our list, please submit your request
at the bottom of this email.

(Resending because I got a weired "bounced" message...)


> The request from the client is a GET request. The
> headers from the request are as follows:
>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0;
> Windows NT; DigExt)
> Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg,
> application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword,
> application/vnd.ms-powerpoint,
> application/x-comet, */*
> Host: localhost:8080
> Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
> Accept-Language: en-us
> Connection: Keep-Alive
>
>
> The server sends a multipart/mixed document.
> I have a sample servlet that sets the following
> properties for the HttpServletResponse followed
> by the body.The content-length is set correclty
> to the size of the body.
>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type:
> multipart/mixed;boundary=D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
> Content-Length: <length of the stream>
>
> --D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="header.hdr"
> Content-ID: <hdr.GetMultipart@...>
>
> This is a sample header
>
> pravin
>
> --D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream
> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="content.pld"
> Content-ID: <content.GetMultipart@...>
>
> This is a sample content body.
>
> --D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277--
>
>
> As mentioned earlier, Netscape prompts twice to save
> the contents in header.hdr and contents.pld
> IE simply displays complete body including the
> multipart boundary strings.
>
> Any help will be highly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pravin.

I did some poking around Microsoft's Technical Support web site and found the
following KB articles:

Q250983 "Using Netscape Server Push Technology with ASP"
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q250/9/83.ASP

Q151504 "Using Server Push with IIS"
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q151/5/04.ASP

Q234266 "High-Speed Push-Technology Program May Overwrite Internet Cache"
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q234/2/66.ASP

(That last one might not be relevant but I thought I'd include it anyway)

I then did some searching on Deja.com (and saw your posts) and found the
following:

"Re: Is Multipart MIME valid in HTTP?"
Date: 08/09/1999
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=510624816

"Re: help:Mime Multipart for downloading"
Date: 02/02/2000
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=580779940

I found a few others too but didn't include them here, but based on what I *did*
see, the results don't look too promising I'm afraid. It's beginning to look
very much like you're S.O.L.

One thing you *might* try is changing your Content-Type to
"multipart/x-mixed;..." or "multipart/x-mixed-replace;..." I noticed on my
system that when I did that, I *almost* got it to work the way you want it to.
Internet Explorer did present me with a "Save As" dialog box, but it was
immediately overlaid with another error dialog complaining about the fact that
it was unable to retrieve the file attributes for "header.hdr". from the test
site I was using. I then uploaded some dummy "header.hdr" and "content.pld"
files and tried again and this time it *appeared* to work, BUT... didn't quite.
When the files are actually present on the web site that sends me your above
multipart response, it does indeed present me with a "Save As" dialog box and
allow me to save it, BUT... 1) it only presents me with ONE "Save As" dialog box
(for "header.hdr" -- the first file) and not two, and 2) the file content that
get saved in the "header.hdr" file consists of the actual entity body of
received message: i.e. the entire MIME contents from the first boundary to the
last (i.e. the entire stream).

I don't know what else to say. From what I'm seeing It looks like Microsoft
Internet Explorer doesn't support what you're trying to do.

If you *do* figure it out, be sure to let us know what you did to get it to
work. From the looks of it there are a lot of others out there who'd be very
grateful.

Good luck!

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
    fish@...

Sorry for the test message, but I've been having weird problems with my e-mail
account and I'm just testing to see if I can get through to the list. (I
couldn't before; kept being rejected.)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
    fish@...

The request from the client is a GET request. The headers from the request
are as follows:

User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
Accept: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg,
application/vnd.ms-excel, application/msword, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint,
application/x-comet, */*
Host: localhost:8080
Accept-Encoding: gzip, deflate
Accept-Language: en-us
Connection: Keep-Alive


The server sends a multipart/mixed document.
I have a sample servlet that sets the following properties for the
HttpServletResponse followed by the body.
The content-length is set correclty to the size of the body.

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary=D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
Content-Length: <length of the stream>

--D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="header.hdr"
Content-ID: <hdr.GetMultipart@...>

This is a sample header

pravin

--D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="content.pld"
Content-ID: <content.GetMultipart@...>

This is a sample content body.

--D8119DDD2D264D4480E57277--


As mentioned earlier, Netscape prompts twice to save the contents in
header.hdr and contents.pld
IE simply displays complete body including the multipart boundary strings.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Pravin.


----- Original Message -----
From: Fish <fish@...>
To: <www-talk@...>
Cc: Pravin Singhal <pravin@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 11:56 PM
Subject: RE: using MIME multipart/mixed


> > Hi
>
> Hello.
>
> > How can I send 2 files from the server in one stream
> > (in one request from the client)? I have been trying to
> > achieve this using multipart/mixed format. I am able
> > to do this with Netscape browser but not with IE.
> > Can IE handle multipart/mixed message from the server
> > correctly?
>
> I don't know for sure, but I would suspect so.
>
> > The server is sending a Content-Type as multipart/mixed.
> > The message consists of 2 body parts and each has
> > a Content-Type set to octet-stream. Netscape prompts
> > the file dialog twice and for each file get the name from
> > Content-Disposition of each body part (and this is the
> > desired behavior by me).
> >
> > It seems IE fails to understand the message and
> > simply displays the whole message with all the
> > headers etc. RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1) states "In
> > general, an HTTP user agent SHOULD follow the
> > same or similar behavior as an MIME user agent
> > would upon receipt of a multipart type."
> >
> > Is this a known bug (non compliance with HTTP
> > protocol) with IE( 5.0 and 5.5) or I am doing
> > something stupid?
>
> Hard to say without seeing the actual request/response being
> sent.
>
> > Any help will be highly appreciated.
>
> If you could let us see the actual request that your server
> received and the actual response that your server sent (minus
> the actual content of course), we might be in a better position
> to help you.
>
> > Thanks
>
> You're very welcome.
>
> > Pravin Singhal.
> >
> > Please also reply to pravin@...
>
> --
> "Fish" (David B. Trout)
>    fish@...
>

> Hi

Hello.

> How can I send 2 files from the server in one stream
> (in one request from the client)? I have been trying to
> achieve this using multipart/mixed format. I am able
> to do this with Netscape browser but not with IE.
> Can IE handle multipart/mixed message from the server
> correctly?

I don't know for sure, but I would suspect so.

> The server is sending a Content-Type as multipart/mixed.
> The message consists of 2 body parts and each has
> a Content-Type set to octet-stream. Netscape prompts
> the file dialog twice and for each file get the name from
> Content-Disposition of each body part (and this is the
> desired behavior by me).
>
> It seems IE fails to understand the message and
> simply displays the whole message with all the
> headers etc. RFC 2616 (HTTP 1.1) states "In
> general, an HTTP user agent SHOULD follow the
> same or similar behavior as an MIME user agent
> would upon receipt of a multipart type."
>
> Is this a known bug (non compliance with HTTP
> protocol) with IE( 5.0 and 5.5) or I am doing
> something stupid?

Hard to say without seeing the actual request/response being
sent.

> Any help will be highly appreciated.

If you could let us see the actual request that your server
received and the actual response that your server sent (minus
the actual content of course), we might be in a better position
to help you.

> Thanks

You're very welcome.

> Pravin Singhal.
>
> Please also reply to pravin@...

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
    fish@...

> Hi,
>
> Is pipelining supported by any client/server? I mean
> sending multiple HTPP GETs or RESPONSEs in a
> single TCP segment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael

I know for a fact that some servers stream their responses back if you
stream your requests to it, but I never bothered to make a list. Is that
what you're asking? Which specific servers out there (e.g. Apache,
Netscape, etc) are actually capable of streaming? If that's your
question, I don't know because I never bothered to keep track. I just
know some of them do because I've seen it in my trace logs.

And which specific clients (i.e. browsers, e.g. Netscape, IE, Opera,
etc) stream (pipeline) their requests, I don't know either. I never
bothered to check as it's hard to tell from my trace logs (since each
HTTP request my proxy processes is handled separately).

But if you're asking whether streamed HTTP requests/responses actually
get packaged together into the same physical TCP/IP packet, I would
venture a guess and answer: "more than likely" (unless you've purposely
disabled the Nagle algorithm, which is highly discouraged).[1]

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
    fish@...

[1] The Nagle algorithm can be disabled by setting the TCP_NODELAY
option for a socket via 'setsockopt'. For more information regarding the
Nagle algorithm, see RFC 896.

Hi,

Is pipelining supported by any client/server? I mean
sending multiple HTPP GETs or RESPONSEs in a
single TCP segment.

Thanks,

Michael

At 08:46 AM 2000-12-17 -0600, Aaron Swartz wrote:
>Dmitry Beransky <dberansk@...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks a bunch.  This is exactly what I was talking about.  Is there a
>> similar thing for various PDA devices?
>
>Not that I know of, I believe only phones for now -- Palms, for example,
>can't visit normal web pages, I believe.
>

You have to distinguish, here, between the Clippings service which is
available
via Palm VII and the little-p palm class of devices, which can have access to
the 'weal' WWW using other services accessed with the aid of e.g. the OmniSky
modem that works with the Palm V.

But I am likewise unaware of any gateway that offers access to the whole real
WWW as Web Clippings.  There are several WWW to WAP gateways which I found by
digging at C-Net.

[Plug warning]

If you're interested in this topic you might be interested in the
discussion we
presented at Supercomputing 2000:

Middleware and the eSCaped Web
<http://trace.wisc.edu/handouts/sc2000/middleware_and_eSCaped_web>http://tr
ace.wisc.edu/handouts/sc2000/middleware_and_eSCaped_web/

which inter_alia provides links to two WAP/W3C workshops which give background
for work by WAP Forum and W3C to achieve convergence in this area.

Al

>--
>[ Aaron Swartz | me@... |
<http://www.aaronsw.com/>http://www.aaronsw.com ]
>

Dmitry Beransky <dberansk@...> wrote:

> Thanks a bunch.  This is exactly what I was talking about.  Is there a
> similar thing for various PDA devices?

Not that I know of, I believe only phones for now -- Palms, for example,
can't visit normal web pages, I believe.

--
[ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]

Thanks a bunch.  This is exactly what I was talking about.  Is there a
similar thing for various PDA devices?

Thanks
Dmitry

On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Aaron Swartz wrote:
> Dmitry Beransky <dberansky@...> wrote:
>
> > we have several pages that we want to be accessible to PDA  users.  Are
> > there any public clipping gateways that will let us filter our pages
> > through and see how they look on a portable device
>
> I don't know if this is what you mean, but you can use this service:
>
> http://gelon.net/cgi-bin/wapalizeericssonr320.cgi?url=http://wmlproxy.google
> .com/wmltrans/u=www.w3.org@2FTR@2F
>
> Put your URL after the u= portion and replace all slashes with "@2F"
> (without the quotes).
>

Dmitry Beransky <dberansky@...> wrote:

> we have several pages that we want to be accessible to PDA  users.  Are
> there any public clipping gateways that will let us filter our pages
> through and see how they look on a portable device

I don't know if this is what you mean, but you can use this service:

http://gelon.net/cgi-bin/wapalizeericssonr320.cgi?url=http://wmlproxy.google
.com/wmltrans/u=www.w3.org@2FTR@2F

Put your URL after the u= portion and replace all slashes with "@2F"
(without the quotes).

Hope this helps,

--
[ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Sean B. Palmer wrote:

>> If/when folks get comfortable with schemas and
>> namespaces, we can drop the DTD gobbledygook at the top:

Yeah, scary isn't it?  Watch out for the Boogieman.

>>            <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
>>              [...]

This accomplishes precisely nothing, as was explained ad nauseum on
the www-xml-sig list.  (Isn't it *finally* time to make that archive
public?)

Instead of the handwaving with a URI of indeterminate (semantic)
content, we can do better *with* the um, gobbledegook.  It has the
virtue of having been an international standard since 1986, and the
incidental benefit that we know what's going on with each URI.

1. In the internal subset:

   <!-- Declare formal definition of a machine-processable format -->
   <!NOTATION XSchema
              SYSTEM "http://www.w3.org/2000/08/XMLSchema"
              >
   <!-- Declare an entity formulated in this *particular* format -->
   <!ENTITY   xhtml-schema
              SYSTEM "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/schema"
              CDATA XSchema
              >
   <!-- Enable a reference to this entity -->
   <!ATTLIST  xhtml
              foo    ENTITY    #IMPLIED
              >

2. In the instance:

    <!-- Reference the entity, at the same time pinpointing which
         particular formalism was used -->
    <xhtml foo="xhtml-schema">
    ...

[I named the attribute 'foo' deliberately to make the point that the
notation on the entity tells you all that you *need* to know: that a
schema of some kind exists (as the contents of the entity) and also,
much more importantly, which particular formal system it's encoded
in.  Given that, the mere name of the instance attribute need not be
relevant.  One *could* formalize it using a reserved name, i.e. using
a 'xml' prefix, though.]

As a matter of fact, with the new provisions in WebSGML TC, the entity
declaration can be skipped in favor of a direct reference *as* the
external subset

  <!DOCTYPE xhtml SYTEM "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/schema"
            CDATA XSchema [
      <!NOTATION XSchema
              SYSTEM "http://www.w3.org/2000/08/XMLSchema"
              >
  ]>

But not quite yet in XML, admittedly.  See K.4.10.3 in

   http://www.ornl.gov/sgml/sc34/document/0029.htm

> Hopefully we will be able to say "when", but we all know that DTDs
> aren't going to just "vanish".

Denigration and disparagement have been known to work.  Meanwhile, the
idea is to poison as many things as possible with colonified names,
just to make recovery more costly (and hence defered/avoided) -
nothing like making a virtue out of um, "necessity".

> I can't help remembering who *suggested* we put that "DTD
> gobbledygook" at the top in the first place(!):

Water under the bridge.  We've all come a long way since then.

> > I'm asking for one lousy attribute,
> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>
> I don't believe it will *be* just one lousy attribute, because
> validating by namespace is only a very small part of the list of
> options in the XML Schema specification.

Yep.  And that's only the beginning.

> I agree that it may be the best way, but it's not the only way.
> You will have to allow for xsi:SchemaLocation, which will bump up
> the prologue aspect of validation again. You can't use "the file
> gets smaller and simpler" as an excuse to use XML Schemas for
> XHTML: instead use the fact that they have certain benefits over
> XML DTDs.

Not to mention that DTD syntax can be used to invoke the processing
of schemas in reliable ways.  See above.

>> the HTML modularization spec shows you how to add your own module
>> and mix it in with the standard  modules. I don't care for that
>> approach,

With you there, but for different reasons:)

>> because it's limited in all the ways that linking two C modules
>> are limited:

It's about time this overplayed (and bogus) analogy were put to sleep.

>> one big unmanaged centralized namespace, no "first class" modules
>> recognized by the compiler (the validator).

A validator is not a compiler, because a validator is a recognizer,
not a parser.

>> But it has the virtue that existing validating XML processors
>> can be used for validation.

XML "validation" is useless.  It's crippled in relation to SGML
facilities, and even SGML has moved beyond the implicit assumption of
an encompassing architecture.

> I don't get your qualms there, "one big unmanaged centralized
> namespace"?

The "name clash" non-problem that SGML-bashers are still getting
mileage out of.  For a excellently written neutral presentation of
the basic "problem",  see, e.g.  Q8.5 in the Namespaces FAQ

   http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/NamespacesFAQ.htm

For a demonstration that the problem is illusory, using tools that
have existed since before XML was invented, see

   http://www.nyct.net/~aray/sgml/demo/dept/

> It's a good approach. That way, instead of just declaring the
> namespaces in a DTD and not using them, you don't have a DTD at
> all and simply use the namespace to point to your Schema.

Except it has the same problem as the STYLE attribute (and to a large
extent, the STYLE and SCRIPT elements in HTML): an implicit assumption
that there is only *one* "relevant" formalism.  My prediction is that,
just like SCRIPT and STYLE, in the future for XSchema lies the problem
of "versions".  For which, of course, yet another reserved attribute
will have to be invented...

And now, to really give the W3C folks heebiejeebies, may I suggest a
perusal of this tutorial:

   http://www.isogen.com/papers/archintro.html

I also by chance discovered in old directory on an old machine this
piece by Eliot Kimber, a copy of which I can't locate elsewhere.

   http://www.nyct.net/~aray/notes/rdfarch.html

(It was written in Aug 97, and references the 970801 draft of the RDF
spec.  It's mainly a source of ideas now, since the details have
changed.)

Enjoy!


Arjun

--
"The bottomline is that it is really difficult to solve a problem
  when the problem does not exist." - Masataka Ohta.

Hi,

we have several pages that we want to be accessible to PDA  users.  Are
there any public clipping gateways that will let us filter our pages
through and see how they look on a portable device (doesn't have to be
exact)?  They can also be stand alone emulator apps.  We did look at Palm's
emulator, but it seems it requires an actual modem and most importantly an
existing account with a clipping service.

thanks
Dmitry

IEEE Transactions on Computers
			     Call for Papers

			     Special Issue on
	    Quality of Service Issues in Internet Web Services
		 http://computer.org/tc/tc2000/t6toc.htm


Original manuscripts are sought for a special issue of IEEE Transactions
on Computers devoted to quality of service issues in Internet Web
services. The special issue is scheduled for March 2002.  Topics of
interest include, but not limited to, the following:

- Cache/proxy architectures and performance;
- Prefetching strategies and analysis;
- Replication-based Web architectures and protocols;
- Integrated caching and replication strategies;
- Techniques for low bandwidth links and/or mobile devices;
- Trade-off between caching/prefetching and replication;
- End-to-end performance evaluation of caching and replication;
- Caching and delivery of streaming media content;
- Load balancing and workload partitioning;
- Measurement studies of Web cache architectures;
- Dependable Web services;
- Data consistency strategies for Web services.


Manuscripts should be submitted electronically (in postscript format) or
in hard copy form (six copies) to Mohan Kumar (after 1 January 2001,
please submit to Dr. Kumar at the University of Texas at Arlington,
e-mail kumar@...) no later than 15 January 2001. In addition, a
signed IEEE copyright transfer form should be mailed to Dr. Kumar. All
papers must conform to the usual IEEE-TC submission requirements with
total length, including figures and tables, not to exceed 35
double-spaced pages (see "Information for Authors" on the inside back
cover of this issue or go to the Computer Society website at
http://www.computer.org/tc/edguide.htm).
Papers should be of high quality. Submitted manuscripts must not have
been previously published or currently submitted for
publication elsewhere.


			     IMPORTANT DATES
		     Paper Deadline: 15 January 2001
		     Acceptance Notice: 15 July 2001
		    Final Manuscript: 15 October 2001
		       Publication Date: March 2002


Guest Editors

    Marco Conti
	 Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche
	 Instituto CNUCE
	 Via V. Alfieri, 1
	 56010 Ghezzano, Pisa, ITALY
	 Telephone: +39 050 315 3062
	 E-mail: marco.conti@...

    Mohan Kumar
 	 School of Computing
 	 Curtin Univ. of Technology
 	 GPO Box U 1987
 	 Perth WA 6845, AUSTRALIA
 	 Telephone: +61 8 9266 3014
 	 E-mail: kumar@...

    Sajal K. Das
 	 CReWMaN
 	 Dept. of Computer Science and Eng.
 	 Univ. of Texas at Arlington
 	 Arlington, TX 76019-0015
 	 Telephone: 817/272-7405
 	 E-mail: das@...

    Behrooz A. Shirazi
	 Dept. of Computer Science & Eng.
 	 Univ. of Texas at Arlington
 	 Arlington, TX 76019-0015
 	 Telephone: 817/272-3605
 	 E-mail: shirazi@...

> If Schemas and RDF are difficult to programmers, what about the
> whole rest of the world out there who fell in love with the Web,
> but doesn't want to quit their day job?

Yes, XSLT is near impossible for most HTML-only people to learn, and XML
gives them too wide a range. However, I firmly believe that WYSIWYG RDF/SW
editors/browsets will fill the much needed gap. Tim had something like that
running on his NeXT machine, but they took the editing function out when
they ported it. oops.
Come on someone, there's a fame and fortune waiting for the person who
creates an easy to use SW format, and then makes a neat little tool for it.
I'd do it myself, but I'm not a very good C++ programmer...

Kindest Regards,
Sean B. Palmer
http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ [ERT/GL/PF]
"Perhaps, but let's not get bogged down in semantics."
    - Homer J. Simpson, BABF07.

> What is the SW and what is an SW format? Are you saying a semantic
> text editor? An XML writer? Please explain.

With pleasure.
SW Format: I believe that the best scenario for creating an interfacable
Seamntic Web (SW) is to provide a framework that is based on XHTML and RDF:
i.e. a sort of hybrid document/data format. I tried to do this myself with
annotations, but as usual got a bit bogged down. At the end of the day we
need a format that is Semantic but can be easily rnendered using CSS. Plain
XML can already acheive this, but doesn't have the correct smeantics (too
broad), so I think an XHTML/RDF hybrid is a good direction to go.
SW/SW Editor: The problem is that this format will be quite necessarily
complex. Therefore, you would need some kind of WYSIWYG editor for it. It
should also be able to partially understand other well described XML/RDF
formats, ala "Partial Understanding" in TimBL's design notes (forgot the
URI).
What is required is an editor/browser that can reder/understand/display a
documentized form of RDF, as well as understanding any other RDF. In other
words, it should be possible to store all of your data as a form of RDF
(with a few extra semantics) and broswe and edit it quite easily. I have
already showed it is possible to store data as RDF and documentize it on the
fly. With XLink capabilities and CSS added to the mixture, the hypermedia
possibilities are endless!

Kindest Regards,
Sean B. Palmer
http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ [ERT/GL/PF]
"Perhaps, but let's not get bogged down in semantics."
    - Homer J. Simpson, BABF07.

Sean B. Palmer <sean@...> wrote:

> there's a fame and fortune waiting for the person who
> creates an easy to use SW format, and then makes a neat little tool for it.
> I'd do it myself, but I'm not a very good C++ programmer...

What is the SW and what is an SW format? Are you saying a semantic text
editor? An XML writer? Please explain.

--
[ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]

At 05:54 PM 12/12/00 +0000, Sean B. Palmer wrote:
>what we *do* require/demand are tools for the Semantic Web, that can
>automatically browse/render/edit this kind of stuff: so we wont have to
>see all of the coding. We need a Mosaic for the SW.

"We" seem to be "demanding" something sort of like the previously
aforementioned "schemaker"?
--
Love.
                  ACCESSIBILITY IS RIGHT - NOT PRIVILEGE

William Loughborough <love26@...> wrote:

>> I am at least going to try to make Schemas and RDF more accessible to
>> programmers.
> The only problem I have with it is that it should be
> accessible to "people" and not *just* to the "subsetof" called
> "programmers".

Exactly. A big reason I'm going with a non-XML templating system is because
I want normal people to be able to use my system easily, with a minimum of
fuss. It's difficult enough teaching them HTML (and I hope that will someday
not be necessary), but trying to teach them XSLT is next to impossible.

If Schemas and RDF are difficult to programmers, what about the whole rest
of the world out there who fell in love with the Web, but doesn't want to
quit their day job?

--
[ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]

> The only problem I have with it is that it should be accessible to
> "people" and not *just* to the "subsetof" called "programmers".

You can't seriously want me to belive that programmers are people too :-)

Some of the trouble with RDF and Schemas is their complexity, but also the
fact that they are unlimited in their uses. Whereas XHTML is very simple in
it's aim, and powerful in its results, RDF is *too* powerful for people
(most people, not programmers) to get to grips with. That's why I dream of
creating hybrid systems like ADotSW http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/adotsw/
I think that the RDF syntax would need canonizing before it were to be used
by the huddled masses, as many can't even cope with HTML, but they don't
need to use it: what we *do* require/demand are tools for the Semantic Web,
that can automatically browse/render/edit this kind of stuff: so we wont
have to see all of the coding. We need a Mosaic for the SW.

Kindest Regards,
Sean B. Palmer
http://infomesh.net/swdemo/#demo
http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ [ERT/GL/PF]
"Perhaps, but let's not get bogged down in semantics."
    - Homer J. Simpson, BABF07.

At 11:49 AM 12/12/00 +0000, Sean B. Palmer wrote:
>I am at least going to try to make Schemas and RDF more accessible to
>programmers.

You said it. The only problem I have with it is that it should be
accessible to "people" and not *just* to the "subsetof" called
"programmers". Just as Aaron is beset by principals/administrators/teachers
and other lowlifes, we are held captive by computer science graduates in
white lab coats speaking in tongues. My dream is that we can set us free.
As Huey Newton and them said "Power to the People!" so I say "Schemaker
Lives!" - at least in my dreams.



--
Love.
                  ACCESSIBILITY IS RIGHT - NOT PRIVILEGE

[Note: This is quite an essay of a reply: and very multi-topical.]

> If/when folks get comfortable with schemas and
> namespaces, we can drop the DTD gobbledygook at the top:
>
>            <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
>              [...]

Hopefully we will be able to say "when", but we all know that DTDs aren't
going to just "vanish". They are highly important for defining document
formats, just as Schemas are for defining data; they have different roles to
play. What we (in fact the HTML WG) have to decide is whether (X)HTML is a
document or data format, and they have to do it for XHTML 2.0.
I suppose using namespaces to point to Schemas would reduce the prologue,
and the file size and editing-by-hand time, but I can't help remembering who
*suggested* we put that "DTD gobbledygook" at the top in the first place(!):

[[[
So if we're commited to SGML, let's start putting something like
<!DOCTYPE HTML SYSTEM
      "http://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html.dtd>
at the front of every HTML file
]]] - Dan Connolly, 14 July 1992,
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-talk/1992JulAug/0016.html

Also:-

[[[
(we don't have to store it in the mfile -- servers that distribute
HTML could generate it on the fly.)
]]] - ibid.

Indicates that you *knew* people wouldn't bother adding a !DOCTYPE
declaration to the top of their files.
8 years down the road, and 99.99% of all Web documents aren't valid SGML or
XML. I blame Mosaic personally; although it did wonders in promoting HTML
and the WWW because it allowed almost any crud code, it has almost destroyed
it for the same reason. Winston Churchill said, "Success is not the end of a
story", and just because the WWW is going O.K. now, I don't think the
architectural principles are strong enough for it to retain its integrity
for much longer. They may have been in the first couple of years, but the
only trace of them now is a web site named http://www.w3.org/

[Note that the original DTD for HTML by Mr. Connolly was in
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-talk/1992MayJun/0020.html]

> I'm asking for one lousy attribute,
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"

I don't believe it will *be* just one lousy attribute, because validating by
namespace is only a very small part of the list of options in the XML Schema
specification. I agree that it may be the best way, but it's not the only
way. You will have to allow for xsi:SchemaLocation, which will bump up the
prologue aspect of validation again. You can't use "the file gets smaller
and simpler" as an excuse to use XML Schemas for XHTML: instead use the fact
that they have certain benefits over XML DTDs.

> the HTML modularization spec shows you how to add
> your own module and mix it in with the standard
> modules. I don't care for that approach, because
> it's limited in all the ways that linking two C
> modules are limited: one big unmanaged centralized
> namespace, no "first class" modules recognized
> by the compiler (the validator). But it has the
> virtue that existing validating XML processors
> can be used for validation.

I don't get your qualms there, "one big unmanaged centralized namespace"? If
you mean http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml then that's probably the same NS as a
Schema version would use (except they'll probably change it before then for
2.0...well they should do if the modules are going to change).

> The other way is XML Schemas. I demonstrated how
> this works: just write a little schema, stick
> it in the web, point to it from your document,
> and off you go.
> http://www.w3.org/XML/2000/04schema-hacking/comment-test.html

It's a good approach. That way, instead of just declaring the namespaces in
a DTD and not using them, you don't have a DTD at all and simply use the
namespace to point to your Schema.

> So I think XHTML, XML, namespaces, and schemas are
> a good mix... they make the easy things easy and the hard
> things possible.

I agree. Not to mention the upcoming RDF...

> > 2) How do you suggest that we employ RDF into XHTML
> > 1.0 and still have it validate as a document?
>
> Er.. you wouldn't be asking that if you handn't
> seen my suggestion for how to do exactly that
> in my message of
> Sat, 12 Aug 2000 11:36:25 -0500

I know how to insert it into a document, I meant how do we have it validate?
We use RDF Schemas for RDF, which *don't* offer any sort of structural
scheme for the attributes and elements used in RDF. That is quite a
nightmare, and it means we can just mix RDF namespaces freely (within the
bounds of the RDF M & S recommendation).

> As to validating RDF, I'm working out the details
> of an XML Schema for RDF: [...]
> http://www.w3.org/2000/07/rdf.xsd [...]
> There's also the DTD approach, though it's more awkward:
> Valid RDF: Using Namespaces with DTDs
> http://www.w3.org/XML/9710rdf-dtd/

I wrote an XHTML module for Dublin Core:
http://xhtml.waptechinfo.com/modules/rdf/rdf.mod
So it can even be done in XHTML m12n. Maybe if we ever get a Schema version
of XHTML, I'll attempt to write a Schema for it too...

> For 4 lousy lines of code served up in a file
> on the web, you get your new attribute, complete
> with (a) assurance that nobody else's comment
> attribute will be mistaken for yours, and
> (b) (emerging) validation support.

I like the way you used it as a cover for the actual target namespace
(http://www.w3.org/2000/08/comment# ) in case the XML Schema specification
changes (which it did). It means I'll have to write a new Schema though....

> But RDF is really a whole other story,
> and I'm not going to go into it in depth just now.

Ugh...if you had have done, it would have saved me a lot of time and effort!
RDF seems to be the way the Web is gravitating, but a lot of people don't
like the rigidity:-

[[[
[...] People who put up web sites got an immediate benefit: they had access
to their data from anywhere and could easily share that data with anyone wit
h a web browser.
Unfortunately, the new work on technologies such as RDF and XML do not have
this benefit. I see no benefit from providing my information in these
formats -- it just means more work for me. No web browser can view these
formats, and it seems as if they never will. Unless, of course, I write more
files: XSLT transformations to display it properly and DHTML code to modify
it, the list goes on.
Needless to say, this isn't going to have very many people jumping to use
these new formats.
]]] - Aaron Swartz, Blogspace

But then Aaron, in his attempts to overcome this problem, is having to use a
proprietary templating system as an interface and storage medium for a
database. The motto seems to be "if you can do it yourself, then do it using
the easiest means possible". I think if people pulled together and actually
created a Semantic Web by bending some of the W3C specifications (XHTML,
XML, RDF etc.) together, then it would work. But not many people are
inclined to try, even if a large handful *do* see sense...

Needless to say, when Aaron releases the source for his (in my opinion
incredible) new invention, I'll be converting it so that the document
template medium is in XHTML/RDF...or at least I will do if I can work out a
method of doing so based on my [1] ADotSW work.

> > You have to in effect, choose which language you
> > want to use. Otherwise, it just won't validate.
>
> I don't think I understand what you're saying.

Try mixing DTDs with Schemas, it's very hard to do, but not impossible.

<a id="danc">
> My experience leads me to believe
> that parts of XML are solid architectureal infrastructure
> for the long term: tags and attributes, and namespaces.
> But other parts of it are there to manage the
> transition from the existing software base: DTDs,
> entities, processing instructions, and I don't
> recommend investing them unless you are
> constrained by existing software somehow.
</a>

I agree. In summary:-

<rdf:RDF xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax#"
      xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax#"
      xmlns:logic="http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Toolbox.html"
      xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/DC/elements/1.1/" >
<rdf:description about="#danc"
      dc:title="Solid Architectureal Infrastructure">
<rdf:bag>
      <rdf:value>Tags</rdf:value>
      <rdf:value>Attributes</rdf:value>
      <rdf:value>Namespace</rdf:value>
   <logic:not>
      <rdf:value>DTDs</rdf:value>
      <rdf:value>Entities</rdf:value>
      <rdf:value>Processing Instructions</rdf:value>
   </logic:not>
</rdf:bag>
</rdf:description>
</rdf:RDF>

I think it is possible to build up a database fully in RDF, possibly
utilising XHTML and ADotSW [1]. However, I am always reminded of the
exchange
between myself and Mr. Bingham in an ERT conference:-
[[[
HB: [...] [in SGML] we defined that element names can be as
      expressive as you like.
SP: But attaching behaviours?
HB: No!
]]]  20 November 2000 W3C WAI ERT Telecon

Which sums up a very important architectural fact: attaching behaviours to
markup sucks. Everyone knew that in the early days of the Web, but then
Mosaic came along...and although Mosaic catapulted the Web into (in)famy, it
did so in a way that meant "within itself it contained the seeds of its own
destruction". Now those seeds are starting to germinate, and if you'll
excuse the furthering/killing of the analogy, we need some weedkiller fast.

[Strangely enough, XHTML still has a lot of behaviours left ruminating
within, so maybe the aim for 2.0 is to provide a version that could be
understood in "processors" that have no foreknowledge of XHTML and it's
behaviours. RDF anyone?]

> Note that on the same day we Recommended XML,
> we released a Note that paints the way
> forward for an extensible, self-describing
> web of languages:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-xml-19980210
> http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/NOTE-webarch-extlang-19980210

This is the kind of strong Web architecture that I was talking about.
Partial credit though, for not outlining many implementation methods. In
fact, the document is a bit of a bore after a couple of reads "been there
done that". Some of the other stuff in the Design Issues
(http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/ ) series is a lot more interesting.
People are still only just coming to grips with the WWW and what it means,
even though it is ten years old now.

> I don't see any excuse for myself or any of the
> present company ;-) Many of our specs have
> a lot of gobbledygook in them. I'm struggling
> to understand the XHTML modularization spec,
> and some of the folks in the HTML WG are
> struggling to understand the XML Schema spec.

That's an all important quote, and a bit nauseating. Anyway, it is never the
experts that get the final say, only the huddled masses (i.e. users), and so
all of the conversations we are having are irrelevant and useless even if
they do map out a solid roadmap for the WWW :-)

> I hope somebody will step in and show us
> the corresponding XHTML DTD module, but
> I suspect it will expose quite a bit
> of gobbledygook in the module itself.

Certainly: it's the XHTML Common Attributes Module:-
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/DTD/xhtml-attribs-1.mod

It takes 6 DTD lines to add it into XHTML 1.1 (it would have been 4, but 2
of the lines are broken down by convention), and it could have only been
two, but it isn't because it requires lots of modularization. Also, you will
need to create a QNames file for your "util" prefix, denoted here by the
entity %util; (creative of me...)

<!-- Module for util:comment --->
<!ATTLIST %Core.extra.attrib;
      %util.comment.attrib;
>
<!ENTITY % util.comment.attrib
      "%util;comment        CDATA          #IMPLIED"
>

Which isn't all that bad, you have to admit. It adds the util:comment
attribute to any place that the core attributes would be added.

> > In reference to your <div style="display:
> > none"></div>, I think that the backwards comatability
> > issues this raises are too great. Do you have any
> > other ideas.
>
> Yes, I gave one: restrict yourself to attributes.

There are quite a few ways in which to semanticize XHTML. Try reading [#1]
http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/adotsw/ and excuse my plug. If the HTML WG
are planning on making XHTML 2.0 a pure data format, then they should have a
look at it. In my opinion, HTML was always going to be a document format,
right from the start, but now it's time is over, and maybe it's best to just
start again, or make some radical changes.
There must be some decent method of creating a semantic web hypermedia
system that is accessible, usable, and more solid architecturally. Maybe it
would start with stuff like browser/editor combinations that allow you to
make your own personal webspaces with direct WYSIWYG editing. I dunno
really, I am not as much of a genius as most of the people I work with, or
am sending this to, so maybe someone else will come up with a better idea.

> I'm not a fan of regulation, myself. I hope you
> don't think that just because a document's
> address starts with
> http://www.w3.org/
> it's somehow magically good.

If it starts with http://www.w3.org/TR/ it should be ;-)

> > Anyway, back to comment(s). I might write a small
> > script to extrat util:comment attributes from
> > documents. Is anyone interested???
>
> [...] here's an XSLT script to extract util:comments:
> <!-- $Id:comment-extract.xsl,v1.1 2000/08/13 02:47:26 connolly Exp$ -->
> <xsl:transform
>     xmlns:xsl  ="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0"
>     xmlns:util ="http://www.w3.org/XML/2000/04schema-hacking/comment#"
>     >
> <xsl:template match="*[@util:comment]">
>   <xsl:value-of select="@util:comment"/>
> </xsl:template>
> <!-- don't pass text thru -->
> <xsl:template match="text()|@*">
> </xsl:template>
> </xsl:transform>

It works on the W3C's Xalan server, but the output isn't in XML or RDF.
Maybe the following would be better:-

<xsl:transform
     xmlns:xsl  ="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform" version="1.0"
     xmlns:util ="http://www.w3.org/XML/2000/04schema-hacking/comment#"
     xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
     xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
     >
<xsl:param name="xmlfile" />
<xsl:template match="/">
<rdf:description>
    <xsl:attribute name="rdf:about">
     <xsl:value-of select="$xmlfile"/>
    </xsl:attribute>
  <rdf:bag><xsl:apply-templates/></rdf:bag>
</rdf:description>
</xsl:template>
<xsl:template match="*[@util:comment]">
<rdf:value title="util:comment value">
   <xsl:value-of select="@util:comment"/>
</rdf:value>
</xsl:template>
<!-- don't pass text thru -->
<xsl:template match="text()|@*">
</xsl:template>
</xsl:transform>

Which should give an output in RDF, and one that can be parsed in SiRPAC
(or: hopefully...as Mr. Loughborough doesn't like me saying!).

> > We are not going to see a comment attribute appear in
> > the XHTML 1.1 specification. That is very clear.
> > However, if I can't get that, I am at least going to
> > try to make Schemas and RDF more accessible to
> > programmers.
>
> I salute you!

Well, it's a few months later, and I'm still trying...
The problem is that the XML Schema specification is so intensely boring that
I can't help but fall asleep every time before I get to the end. Maybe I
should start from the end and work my way backwards ;-)
RDF is better, but it's still a bit of a pain because there aren't all that
many decent implementations of it. Dublin Core, RSS and DAML. Great...

> > At the moment, I think that the util:comment is the
> > best way forward.I challenge people to think up a
> > better idea, and prove it works.

Update: I still believe that a "util:comment" attribute would add much
needed semantics to XHTML (c.f. http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/adotsw/ ),
but the purported extensibility of XHTML oft' referred to in Mr. Connolly's
reply opened up a world of m12n, Schemas, and RDF for me, and I haven't
looked back since.

In summary, I believe that the architectural principles described in Mr.
Connolly's reply based on his 8 years of Web experience were very sound
indeed, and that they are solid foundations with which to build a Semantic
Web on. Namely points like:-

      1) Exterminate the use of DTDs for data formats.
      2) Use RDF for metadata in XHTML.
      3) Always make sure you can validate your code.

But we have to acknowledge that the Web's architecture was always unstable,
and at present is almost shot to pieces. I think it might be a good idea to
actually try to *enjoy* the Web that we have today, whilst 1% of the pages
actually work and make sense. After all, when the day comes that we look
back on "the times when we could use one browser to view the Web, rather
than the 17 we have to use now", we will remember these times as the Web's
golden age.

> --
> Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/

Kindest Regards,
Sean B. Palmer
http://www.mysterylights.com/sbp/
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ [ERT/GL/PF]
http://infomesh.net/swdemo/#demo
"Perhaps, but let's not get bogged down in semantics."
    - Homer J. Simpson, BABF07.

P.S. I think I'll print this out and wallpaper my room with it. Sorry for
the length...but was it worth it?
P.P.S. "Please forgive the lateness of my reply".

I can't answer all of these, but...

On 10 Dec 2000, Louis Theran wrote:

>
> Has anybody done a survey of how common HTTP clients generate
> conditional GET requests?  (A quick search didn't turn up anything
> interesting.)
>
> I'm mostly interested in:
>
>   * Whether If-None-Match is used at all

I don't know.   You might be able to find statistics about the use of this
header on the W3C's web characterisation pages.

>
>   * Whether Last-Modified timestamps are really being used as nonces

Most, if not all, modern browsers will only send if-modified-since headers
with exacly the same date as was in the last-modified header of the
response they try to revalidate.

>
>   * Whether ``Cache-Control: max-age=...'' is respected

All HTTP/1.1 implementations should, and I believe that by now most of the
browsers and proxy caches out there implement HTTP/1.1.


Koen.

Has anybody done a survey of how common HTTP clients generate
conditional GET requests?  (A quick search didn't turn up anything
interesting.)

I'm mostly interested in:

   * Whether If-None-Match is used at all

   * Whether Last-Modified timestamps are really being used as nonces

   * Whether ``Cache-Control: max-age=...'' is respected


^L

Hi,

My name is Peter Loeb.  I have written an XML application which I call
XMidi.  It allows a MIDI file (.mid) to be converted to an XMidi file
(.xmi, an XML file), and an XMidi file to be converted to a MIDI file.
The supporting program is in Java (open source).

If you are interested, please check it out at:
http://www.palserv.com/XMidi/
Any comments, suggestions, etc., would be appreciated.

Peter Loeb
peter@...
http://www.palserv.com

*********************************************************************
                          Call for Papers

                            Semantic Web
                           WWW-10 Workshop

                             May 1, 2001
                               Hongkong
*********************************************************************

Comprehensive information to be found at
                         http://semanticweb2001.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de


Workshop Outline

  The "Semantic Web", a term coined by Tim Berners-Lee, is used to
  denote the next evolution step of the Web. Associating meaning with
  content or establishing a layer of machine understandable data would
  allow automated agents, sophisticated search engines and interoperable
  services, will enable higher degree of automation and more intelligent
  applications. The ultimate goal of the Semantic Web is to allow
machines
  the sharing and exploitation of knowledge in the Web way, i.e. without
  central authority,  with few basic rules, in a scalable, adaptable,
  extensible manner. With RDF as the basic platform for the Semantic Web,

  a multitude of tools, methods and systems have just appeared on the
  horizon. The goal of the workshop is to share experiences about these
  systems, exchange ideas about improvements of existing tools and
  creation of new systems, principles and applications. Also an important

  goal is to develop a cooperation model among Semantic Web developers,
  and to develop a common vision about the future developments.

Relevant workshop topics include (non-exhaustive list):
    · Language and Representation issues
    · Semantic Web infrastructure and architectures
    · Metadata and conceptual models for annotating content, resources,
and portals
    · Automatic annotation/tagging/metadata creation and recommendation
    · Tools, systems and methodologies for Semantic Web
    · Application of  semantic web technology
    · Migrating information to semantic formats & Information Filtering
    · Trust in the Semantic Web
    · Query languages for the Semantic Web
    · Information correlation, integration, mediation and brokering on
the Web
    · Resource discovery
    · Distributed inference services
    · Semantic Web mining

Important Dates

  Deadline for paper submission 1 Jan 2001
  Notification of acceptance    1 Feb 2001
  Deadline final contributions  1 Apr 2001

  All accepted papers will be published in the workshop proceedings.
  In addition, a few selected best papers will be considered for
  publication in a special issue of the ETAI Semantic Web Journal
  (http://www.ida.liu.se/ext/etai/).


Submission Information

  We invite contributions that advance the state-of-the-art in topics
  related to the purpose of the workshop. Persons interested in
  participating should submit either a technical paper or a position
  paper addressing new research issues. In addition, we solicit proposals

  for panel discussions and break-out groups that work towards visions
for
  the semantic web. Submit by e-mail before January 1, 2001 following the

  format instructions at http://semanticweb2001.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de to

      staab@...


Organizing Committee

  Stefan Decker, Database Group, Stanford University
   Database Group, Stanford University
   Gates Hall 4A, Room 425
   Stanford, CA 94305-9040, USA
   email: stefan@...
   phone: +1 650-723-1422
   fax: +1 650-725-2588
   http://www-db.stanford.edu/~stefan/

  Dieter Fensel, VU Amsterdam
   Division of Mathematics & Computer Science,
   Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam,
   De Boelelaan 1081a, 1081 HV Amsterdam, NL
   The Netherlands
   Email: dieter@...
   http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dieter

  Amit Sheth, Univ. of Georgia
   Large Scale Distributed Information Systems Lab, Computer Sc.,
   415 GSRC, University of Georgia, Athens GA 30602-7404 USA
   Also, Taalee Inc.
   Email: amit@...
   http://lsdis.cs.uga.edu, http://www.taalee.com

  Steffen Staab (Contact),
   AIFB, Karlsruhe University,
   76128 Karlsruhe, Germany
   Also, Ontoprise GmbH
   email: staab@...,staab@...
   phone: +49-721-608 4751
   fax: +49-721-693 717
   http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/~sst

Programm Committee
     Dan Brickley, Univ. of Bristol (UK)
     Vassilis Christophides, ICS-FORTH (Greece)
     Peter Eklund, Griffith University (Australia)
     Jim Hendler, Univ. of Maryland (USA)
     Rick Hull, Bell Labs, Lucent Tech. (USA)
     Manolis Koubarakis, Techn. Univ. of Crete (Greece)
     Ora Lassila, Nokia
     Fred Lochovsky, HKUST (Hong Kong)
     Alain Michard, INRIA (France)
     John Mylopoulos, Univ. of Toronto (Canada)
     Claire Nedellec, LRI (France)
     Deborah McGuinness, Stanford Univ. (USA)
     Dimitris Plexousakis, Univ. of Crete (Greece)
     Louiqa Raschid, Univ. of Maryland (USA)
     Marie-Christine Rousset, Univ. of ORSAY (France)
     Guus Schreiber, VU Amsterdam (The Netherlands)
     Tarcisio de Souza Lima, Federal Univ. of Juiz de Fora (Brazil)
     Katia Sycara, CMU (USA)