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Parser Behaviour (serious)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #19368 of 26751 |
Re: Parser Behaviour (serious)

[Peter Murray-Rust]

[Example of validating parser barfing on unresolvable URI elided]

>
>I still believe that undefined parser behaviour is going to be a major
>deterrent to may people who want to take up XML. I have posted on this
>before. I am going to keep on about it. The most common reaction I seem to
>have so far is "Well that's how XML behaves - it's *your* problem to decide
>how to process XML". This isn't good enough. In the current case I simply
>want to switch off the parser's attempt to resolve the DTD. I would
>appreciate something like:
>
> "Parser failed to resolve external SYSTEM identifier in DOCTYPE:
>http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd
> To disable DTD look-up use -nosysid option"
>
>So, for about the third time (and it took 3 times to get SAX1.0 off the
>ground, what are we going to do about specifying parser behaviour? I have
>shown in public how the failure to process external entities breaks systems.
>
>Until we resolve this question (and probably several others), XML 1.0 is
>broken as an interoperable "standard"
>

I could not agree more. That is why I harp on about the XFM
(XML Features Manifest) idea so much. It would give XML
parser writers a standard way of picking up parsing
options such as "-nosysid " above.

It also gives XML document creators a place to say
things like "my XML documents reference non-local entities"
and so on.

regards,

Sean,




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Sun Apr 2, 2000 9:42 am

sean@...
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Message #19368 of 26751 |
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<Note>This message is serious<smiley/></Note> I have been preparing a large amount of XHTML (for our VirtualXML activity) and using Dave Raggett's excellent...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 2, 2000
10:05 am

[Peter Murray-Rust] [Example of validating parser barfing on unresolvable URI elided] ... I could not agree more. That is why I harp on about the XFM (XML...
Sean McGrath
sean@...
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Apr 2, 2000
10:46 am

... I agree. I know that it's not a general-purpose solution or even a particularly good one, but that's one of the reasons we provided the EntityResolver in...
David Megginson
david@...
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Apr 2, 2000
11:31 am

It would be far nicer if you could specific some sort of rollover behavior for DTD locations. Like a class path in Java for example. The other thing about DTD...
Graeme Wallace
graeme.wallace@...
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Apr 2, 2000
8:01 pm

Hi Greame Greame said: The other thing about DTD URLs is that it assumes that their is a fast connection to the machine where it resides. Didier replies: More...
Didier PH Martin
martind@...
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Apr 2, 2000
10:39 pm

Hi Peter, Peter said: These files work fine as HTML, and are conforming XML 1.0, but when I try to parse them on my laptop using either AElfred or Xerces I...
Didier PH Martin
martind@...
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Apr 2, 2000
3:12 pm

... I don't think they are working in validation mode, but my understanding is that they must fetch the DTD in case there are default attribute values (at a...
Steve Muench
smuench@...
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Apr 2, 2000
4:19 pm

Hi Steve, ... validation ... turn ... Steve said: I don't think they are working in validation mode, but my understanding is that they must fetch the DTD in...
Didier PH Martin
martind@...
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Apr 2, 2000
5:22 pm

For XHTML only, if you change the suffix to 'htm' you will not get this behavior. In the XHTML WG we were a little worried that when XHTML became popular as...
Frank Boumphrey
bckman@...
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Apr 2, 2000
5:20 pm

... It's unclear to me whether the standalone="yes" on the XML Declaration is supposed to be a signal to the processor that "it's ok *not* to go fetch the DTD...
Steve Muench
smuench@...
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Apr 2, 2000
5:54 pm

... Wrong. Non-validating processors can also include the external DTD subset (it's optional for them, not forbidden). All the best, David -- David Megginson...
David Megginson
david@...
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Apr 2, 2000
6:25 pm

Hi David, ... validation ... turn ... David said: Wrong. Non-validating processors can also include the external DTD subset (it's optional for them, not...
Didier PH Martin
martind@...
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Apr 2, 2000
7:22 pm

... More likely, because it's (a) looking for default attribute values, or (b) trying to distinguish whitespace in element content. AElfred does both of...
David Megginson
david@...
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Apr 2, 2000
7:41 pm

Hi David, David said: The safest approach seems to be to distribute XML documents normalized (all external general entities expanded and all default attribute ...
Didier PH Martin
martind@...
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Apr 2, 2000
10:49 pm

[Note: "serious" in my title was originally meant to make sure it wasn't an April fool a la ZML, but it is clear that this really *is* a serious issue.] ... My...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
1:54 am

... Would this be a good use for a feature manifest, listing those items which *must* be done for an XML document to be 'successfully' parsed? Obvious stuff...
Clark C. Evans
cce@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:15 am

... I'm not sure if it will help enough, but some of us on SML-DEV have been looking at these problems from a different direction. We presented this 'Common...
Simon St.Laurent
simonstl@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:26 am

Hi all, I still wonder why Xerces developers didn't pitched in and tried to answer this question? If I have not mistaken, what Peter Murray's problem is, he...
gopi
gopi@...
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Apr 12, 2000
6:59 am

... Peter: I'm afraid you'll find that an appreciation for the value of defining conformance is not universally shared by the drivers of the XML bus. As...
Bob Kline
bkline@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:37 am

... Ah, but XML-DEV does not suffer from bus-drivers. It is like a swarm of communal animals which takes many directions according to many driving forces. So I...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
9:37 am

... Very likely so, but it won't be a clearly defined standard (with unambiguous criteria which can be used to identify conforming implementations)....
Bob Kline
bkline@...
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Apr 12, 2000
10:47 am

... That's exactly what it's supposed to mean. ... Nope, you got it. -T. *************************************************************************** This is...
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 2, 2000
6:48 pm

... I think it's simpler than you make it out to be. You have to decide whether, for what you need to do, you need the DTD or not. If you need the DTD, then...
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 2, 2000
6:59 pm

... Public identfiers don't help here -- Consider: <!DOCTYPE boy PUBLIC "anything you like" "http://www.xml.com/doctypes/boy.dtd" ... You are still required to...
Liam R. E. Quin
liamquin@...
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Apr 2, 2000
7:36 pm

... I agree with this, though it is non-trivial to maintain a local copy. *I* don't produce the files - tidy/DaveR does, and links them to a remote URL. I...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 3, 2000
12:37 am

... I think that Frank is talking specifically about MSIE. Peter was ... Changing the extension will not help here. All the best, David -- David Megginson...
David Megginson
david@...
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Apr 2, 2000
11:05 pm

... Weren't you just a little bit worried that if someone hacked the w3c site and, for example, made an optional attribute required, that it would break the...
Simon Wilson
Simon.Wilson@...
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Apr 12, 2000
1:56 am

... This is actually deeper. What happens if 3 organizations agree on a given DTD. They all refer to that DTD, having it hosted by one of the companies. And...
Clark C. Evans
cce@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:18 am

... Aargghh! My hot button again. There's a perfectly good answer to this -- dereference the PUBLIC identifer in some local catalogue. Unfortunately, XML...
John Aldridge
john.aldridge@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:55 am

... It is not clear that rules could ever be written. The current syntax exposes (a) whether a DTD is available and (b) whether it will change the infoset....
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 12, 2000
3:27 am
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