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Parser Behaviour (serious)   Message List  
Reply Message #19379 of 26751 |
Re: Parser Behaviour (serious)

At 10:22 AM 4/2/00 +0100, Peter Murray-Rust wrote:
>What's wrong? Ah! The parser is trying to resolve the URL for the DTD and
>since I'm offline (connections cost money over here) it can't. So the file
>I have created can only be processed as XML if:
> (a) I am connected online
> (b) the W3C maintain *** for all time *** a means of dereferencing either
>the FPI or the URL
>
>I can't believe this is what the community wants. It fooled me, and I've
>been working with XML for some time.

I think it's simpler than you make it out to be. You have to decide
whether, for what you need to do, you need the DTD or not. If you need the
DTD, then either you have to have a net connection to where it is, or you
need to maintain a local copy and use a "file://" URL. Another option is
you could implement a Public Identifier resolver, which is pretty easy
even though there's not yet a standardized interoperable scheme for this.

If you *don't* need to read the DTD for your task at hand, then you don't
have a problem. You say the file "can only be processed as XML if" and
I just don't buy this; it is explicitly OK to skip the external subset
and in fact a common practice in many processing models (in particular
with XHTML the DTD is going to be an order or two of magnitude bigger
than the average instance, so the fetching/processing cost is nontrivial).

Clearly, this presupposes that the software you're using has some sort of
switch that allows you to tell it whether or not to read the DTD; which
seems like a basic must-have and one that exists in every XML tool I've
worked with.

What am I missing? -Tim

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Sun Apr 2, 2000 6:02 pm

tbray@...
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Message #19379 of 26751 |
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... That's exactly what it's supposed to mean. ... Nope, you got it. -T. *************************************************************************** This is...
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 2, 2000
6:48 pm

... I think it's simpler than you make it out to be. You have to decide whether, for what you need to do, you need the DTD or not. If you need the DTD, then...
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 2, 2000
6:59 pm

... Public identfiers don't help here -- Consider: <!DOCTYPE boy PUBLIC "anything you like" "http://www.xml.com/doctypes/boy.dtd" ... You are still required to...
Liam R. E. Quin
liamquin@...
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Apr 2, 2000
7:36 pm

... I agree with this, though it is non-trivial to maintain a local copy. *I* don't produce the files - tidy/DaveR does, and links them to a remote URL. I...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 3, 2000
12:37 am

... I think that Frank is talking specifically about MSIE. Peter was ... Changing the extension will not help here. All the best, David -- David Megginson...
David Megginson
david@...
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Apr 2, 2000
11:05 pm

... Weren't you just a little bit worried that if someone hacked the w3c site and, for example, made an optional attribute required, that it would break the...
Simon Wilson
Simon.Wilson@...
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Apr 12, 2000
1:56 am

... This is actually deeper. What happens if 3 organizations agree on a given DTD. They all refer to that DTD, having it hosted by one of the companies. And...
Clark C. Evans
cce@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:18 am

... Aargghh! My hot button again. There's a perfectly good answer to this -- dereference the PUBLIC identifer in some local catalogue. Unfortunately, XML...
John Aldridge
john.aldridge@...
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Apr 12, 2000
2:55 am

... It is not clear that rules could ever be written. The current syntax exposes (a) whether a DTD is available and (b) whether it will change the infoset....
Tim Bray
tbray@...
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Apr 12, 2000
3:27 am

... If this is true it spells the death of interoperability for information components such as MathML, SVG and CML (chemical markup language). What Tim is...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
9:45 am

... This is nice. This might be going too far... but why not have a complete set of features; describing every assumption all the way down to what us SML-DEV...
Clark C. Evans
cce@...
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Apr 12, 2000
1:42 pm

... Nice, but practically I don't see W3C doing ANYTHING to make it easier to use or extend the life of DTD's, so it would have to be in a separate processing...
Frank Boumphrey
bckman@...
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Apr 12, 2000
5:52 pm

... More than that, there's this bit from the W3C Recommendation _Associating ... Simon St.Laurent XML Elements of Style / XML: A Primer, 2nd Ed. Building XML...
Simon St.Laurent
simonstl@...
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Apr 12, 2000
6:23 pm

... future ... Yes, but we are not asking the W3C to recommend anything. SAX is not recommended by any XML-specific body as far as I know, although we have ...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
7:33 pm

... From: "Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@...> To: "Frank Boumphrey" <bckman@...>; "Clark C. Evans" <cce@...>; "Peter Murray-Rust"...
Michael Champion
Mike.Champion@...
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Apr 12, 2000
9:00 pm

... This is not true. To quote from Section 4.2.2 of XML 1.0: In addition to a system identifier, an external identifier may include a public identifier. An...
Paul Grosso
pgrosso@...
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Apr 12, 2000
3:32 am

... Paul, I think this is a really useful approach for some of the problems. It solves the tidy/XHTML problem - which is a good illustration of good practice...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
9:37 am

With all the announcements about catalog processing, I might as well mention that the Perl module XML::Catalog has been available on CPAN for some time now,...
Eric Bohlman
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Apr 12, 2000
11:17 am

Doesn't standalone="yes" specify that the DTD needn't be read unless validation is required or am I missing something? Jonathan Borden ...
Jonathan Borden
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Apr 12, 2000
3:41 am

... Huh? "An XML processor attempting to retrieve the entity's content may use the public identifier to try to generate an alternative URI. _If_ it is unable ...
John Aldridge
john.aldridge@...
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Apr 12, 2000
3:47 am

... A nice extension for SAX2 would be an entityResolver extension that passed the name of the entity as well as the public and system identifiers to the...
Norman Walsh
ndw@...
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Apr 12, 2000
6:36 am

... <snip/> ... I completely agree with Peter M-R on this. If you need an important feature such as entity resolution, your document should be able to say so....
THOMAS PASSIN
tpassin@...
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Apr 12, 2000
10:37 am

... This is sounding a bit more like my work on XPDL (http://purl.oclc.org/NET/xpdl). XPDL describes a larger number of possible problems, and defines a...
Simon St.Laurent
simonstl@...
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Apr 12, 2000
11:13 am

I think that this approach as advocated by Peter is just what we need. It would be nice if one of the 'standards body' could come up with a recommendation, It...
Frank Boumphrey
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Apr 12, 2000
1:41 pm

... [...] ... <snip/> ... To summarise so far... It seems implicitly agreed that we have a problem here - it is not a new one, but it hasn't gone away either!...
Peter Murray-Rust
peter@...
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Apr 12, 2000
6:01 pm
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