Hi,

I'm still an active ODP editor, but I find it interesting to hear
what people think 'on the other side'. So I hope it's okay for me to
reply to your post - I didn't see anything that says ODP editors
can't post.

Please remember that I don't officially represent the ODP, and this
is just one editor's opinion. However, I believe it's shared with
many people.

>> It is controlled by a small group of people who dictate what you
will and will not see in the directory <<

I wouldn't exactly call 8,000+ active editors a 'small group of
people'. Okay, so it's not nearly as high as the near-40,000 it
boasts on the ODP's front page, but it's still quite a large number.
How many editors does Yahoo! have? Probably not nearly as many.

>> not based on any objective qualification but on this group's
personal opinions <<

It's a sad fact that some ODP editors don't conform to the Guidelines
for their branch or the directory-wide Guidelines (
http://dmoz.org/guidelines.html ). It is the aim of the ODP to ensure
that this doesn't happen. Remember also that each category is
editable by almost all the people on the list at
http://dmoz.org/edoc/editall.html , plus any editors above the
category. If an editor turns out to be abusing their position in the
ODP, the affected sites and/or categories can be restored, or
whatever has to be done.

As an example, take the example when a misguided editor created
categories under Home/Kids for Sex and Child_Pornography. I'm sure
you'll all agree with me that this was simply too much, even for the
Adult/ tree! This might be construed by some as an opinion, and the
way I phrased it, it was. But there are several rules for listing
sites in the Guidelines - see http://dmoz.org/guidelines.html#Site
for more details.

>> No reasons for rejection in the directory are ever sent <<

This is not true. Deciding whether or not to contact a submitter
(about a submission, or otherwise) is always left up to the
discretion of the editor. It may well be true that in most cases,
they aren't sent. But there are several valid reasons, including:

1. In most cases (or at least most of what I've seen), these
discussions tend to degenerate into arguments over the submission's
title, description, etc. In a few cases, these turn out to be
beneficial to both parties - however, this is very much the exception
rather than the rule.

2. Sometimes, no email address is provided with the submission. This
happens more frequently than you might think. This means that reasons
for rejection are less likely to be sent. Please, if you wish to have
a higher chance of a rejection reason, include an email address. It
sounds obvious, but...

>> even if a business owner's web site is of a higher quality or is
regarded better than other similar entries in the directory there is
no recourse, there is no way to modify a web site to gain acceptance
in the directory. <<

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. If you could clarify, it
would be easier for me to respond.

Thanks for reading this loong reply. :) I don't normally go into long
replies, but I felt I needed to do one to do your post justice.

Because your post hints at legal ramifications, I am sending the
staff at DMOZ a copy of this post separately.

Thank you for your time,

- Ciaran.

--- In xodp@y..., kmslogic@p... wrote:
> Regarding the "Open Directory Project" owned by Netscape, Inc.
>
> The open directory is the second most popular directory search
engine
> available (the most popular is "Yahoo"). It is critical to
> businesses that wish to compete on the internet that their web
sites
> be listed in this directory, but the Open Directory is not, in
fact,
> open. It is controlled by a small group of people who dictate what
> you will and will not see in the directory—not based on any
objective
> qualification but on this group's personal opinions. No reasons
for
> rejection in the directory are ever sent, and even if a business
> owner's web site is of a higher quality or is regarded better than
> other similar entries in the directory there is no recourse, there
is
> no way to modify a web site to gain acceptance in the directory.
>
> Because this directory is owned by Netscape, and advertises itself
> as "open", and because a listing in this directory has a serious
> financial impact on eCommerce web sites (certainly hundreds of
> millions of dollars if not more if they are *not* listed) I am
> bringing this matter to the Department of Justice's attention.
>
> The open directory project is located at www.dmoz.com and it
provides
> listing information for several other huge companies including AOL.