Hi:

My name is Alan Shalloway, the co-author of Design Patterns
Explained: A New Perspective on Object-Oriented Design.  I just
joined your group and am following your moderators invitation to
introduce myself.  I live in the Seattle area but come out to St.
Louis 2-3 times a year and thought I'd check into what goes on out
here.  I can also do some free seminars if you are interested, or
even a course on design patterns or agile methods.  In any event,
I've included a brief introduction to two of my more popular free
seminars:

1) Refactoring, Design Patterns and Extreme Programming
2) Pattern Oriented Development: A Practical Approach to Software
Development

See:
http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_d,p_xp.htm
and http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sv_2002_03_podev.htm
for descriptions of these I'm doing in the San Francisco Bay area.

***************************
Refactoring, Design Patterns and Extreme Programming

The two approaches of creating quality, high-level, up-front designs
with design patterns or  relying on emergent design using refactoring
as espoused by XP seem opposed to each other.  This seminar
illustrates why design patterns and refactoring are actually two
sides of the same coin.

With the recent interest in Extreme Programming, many people are
learning the importance of refactoring.  According to Martin Fowler:
"Refactoring is the process of changing a software system in such a
way that it does not alter the external behavior of the code yet
improves its internal structure. It is a disciplined way to clean up
code that minimizes the chances of introducing bugs. In essence when
you refactor you are improving the design of the code after it has
been written."

Refactoring is very important as a method of improving design to
accommodate new requirements.  It is often touted as a way to fix
code mistakes.  However, avoiding the code mistakes in the first
place is a better way to go.  In this case, refactoring is used to
accommodate design changes required by new requirements.

Coding mistakes usually arise from improper attention to the basics
of coding:
     loose coupling
     high cohesion
     no redundancy
     programming by intention

Understanding these principles is essential if extreme programming
methods are to be followed.  This seminar walks through an evolving
code example to:
     illustrate how to follow the above principles
     illustrate what refactoring is
     show how refactoring can improve designs to accommodate  change

The code examples used contain a couple of design patterns.  Thus,
the seminar also illustrates how good, high-level designs can be
accomplished by the application of good local coding rules.

******************
Pattern Oriented Development: Using Design Patterns In Analysis
Through Implementation.

This seminar discusses how design patterns can be used to improve the
entire software development process - not just the design aspect of
it. Design patterns are usually thought of as being limited to
solving local design/implementation problems.  However, they can be
very useful in:
* shifting from a noun/verb decomposition of your problem domain
space to one where you look for variations in concepts - this results
in more maintainable code
* avoiding "paralysis by analysis"
* creating a larger perspective on how to do and manage software
development

*******************************************************
2 Day Designs Pattern Class (see
http://www.netobjectives.com/courses/c_pubsched.htm for more
information).

The course goes beyond merely teaching several design patterns.  It
also teaches the principles and strategies that make design patterns
good designs.  This enables students to use these advanced design
techniques in their problems whether design patterns are even
present.  After teaching several patterns and the principles
underneath them, the course goes further by showing how patterns can
work together to create robust, flexible, maintainable designs.

My Bio:
I am the founder of and a senior consultant with Net Objectives.
Since 1981, he has been both an OO consultant and developer of
software in several industries. His clients includes both Fortune
500  and small companies.  In addition to consulting and mentoring,
Alan teaches design patterns, Java, C++, and agile software
development methodologies including XP and a light-weight version of
RUP. He also gives tutorials at several conferences world-wide each
year. His and James Trott's book: Design Patterns Explained: A New
Perspective on Object-Oriented Design, has been very highly rated.  I
have a Masters in Computer Science from MIT.

If you'd be interested in me doing either talk and can provide me
with a room to do it in, I will next be out in St. Louis in April.

Alan Shalloway
Sr Consultant, 425-313-3065, http://www.netobjectives.com
---------------------------------------------------------
* Sign up for our free newsletter by sending an e-mail to
info@...
* Learn about and join our design pattern community of practice by
going to www.netobjectives.com/dpexplained
* Jim Trott's & my book - Design Patterns Explained: A New
Perspective on Object-Oriented Design is now available
* Scott Bain's & my new CD based XML training is now available as well

Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is here,
and schedule this.

I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.

bab
---
Brian Button             bbutton@...
Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
Object Mentor, Inc.

Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway


> Brian:
> I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in the St.
> Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
talk
> at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm

I am interested in the presentation and have two venue suggestions.
HarrisLogic can host 10 to 15 comfortably or I can get a room at the
Maryland Heights community center.  The facility has various rooms and can
accomodate up to 600 people.  It is located at Dorsett and 270 and rooms
start at $20.





"Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>
03/17/2002 01:35 PM
Please respond to xpstl


         To:     <xpstl@yahoogroups.com>, <stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com>
         cc:
         Subject:        [xpstl] Seminar by Alan Shalloway


Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is here,
and schedule this.

I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.

bab
---
Brian Button             bbutton@...
Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
Object Mentor, Inc.

Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway


> Brian:
> I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in the
St.
> Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
talk
> at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian,

I suggest you coordinate with one or more of the local groups that have
regular meetings. For example, schedule the talk for the Java Users
Group or SLUUG. You'll have a bigger audience and won't be competing
with the numerous regularly scheduled talks in town.

Mark
Brian Button wrote:

> Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
> Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
> actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
> show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is here,
> and schedule this.
>
> I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.
>
> bab
> ---
> Brian Button             bbutton@...
> Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
> Object Mentor, Inc.
>
> Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
> To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway
>
>
> > Brian:
> > I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in
> the St.
> > Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> > putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
> talk
> > at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm
>
>
>
> *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
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02.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707276718:HM/A=847665/R=1>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



--
---------------------------------------------------
Mark J. Balbes, Ph.D.         mark@...
Nuclear Physicist and Java Software Developer

Visit the St. Louis Web Developers Wireless SIG at
http://www.stlwebdev.org/sigs/wireless
---------------------------------------------------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark's suggestion is a good one.  I think SLUUG's April presentations are
already locked in but I'm going to the Steercom meeting tomorrow night
(Monday) so I'll find out for sure - I'll get this on the agenda tonight.  We
also have Eric Raymond coming in some time in April.

Alan's topics probably fit in more with OOSIG than SLUUG, but the SLUUG
members would still enjoy them.  If we can't put anything together for April,
we might be able to do something on one of his subsequent trips.

To respond to your questions, Brian, I would definitely be interested in
attending Alan seminars.  My only conflict would be previously scheduled
events, so knowing a date asap is critical.

Sue



On Sunday 17 March 2002 20:27, you wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I suggest you coordinate with one or more of the local groups that have
> regular meetings. For example, schedule the talk for the Java Users
> Group or SLUUG. You'll have a bigger audience and won't be competing
> with the numerous regularly scheduled talks in town.
>
> Mark
>
> Brian Button wrote:
> > Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
> > Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
> > actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
> > show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is
> > here, and schedule this.
> >
> > I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.
> >
> > bab
> > ---
> > Brian Button             bbutton@...
> > Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
> > Object Mentor, Inc.
> >
> > Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
> > To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> > Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway
> >
> > > Brian:
> > > I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in
> >
> > the St.
> >
> > > Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> > > putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
> >
> > talk
> >
> > > at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm
> >
> > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17072
> >76718:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=101640
> >0692%3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707276718:HM/A=8476
> >65/R=1>
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

--
*****************************************************
Susan E. Hurst
suehurst@...
Home:  314-822-9314
Cell:  314-486-3261

From: "Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>

> Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on
"Refactoring,
> Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested
in
> actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have
3


I would attend.


From: "Craig Caesar" <craigc@...>

> I am interested in the presentation and have two venue suggestions.
> HarrisLogic can host 10 to 15 comfortably or I can get a room at the
> Maryland Heights community center.  The facility has various rooms and
can

Great idea, Craig.


From: "Susan Hurst" <suehurst@...>

> Alan's topics probably fit in more with OOSIG than SLUUG, but the
SLUUG

Definately better with OOSIG or Java-SIG than SLUUG, but 100% fit with
XPSTL :-)

The date should be selected to avoid conflict with *any* of these,
unless one of the groups want to give up a normal meeting for it, of
course.  Al mentioned he comes to St. Louis a few times a year; he might
be hoping to do this when he is here anyway, which might or might not
match the regular meeting times.

Regardless of the group, venue, date, etc., it would be an interesting
event.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

If anyone else knows of other user groups in the area, we can ask them and
maybe by pooling resources it'd be worth my time.  Let me know directly or
off-line.

Alan Shalloway
Sr Consultant, 425-313-3065, http://www.netobjectives.com
---------------------------------------------------------
* Sign up for our free newsletter by sending an e-mail to
info@...
* Learn about and join our design pattern community of practice by going to
www.netobjectives.com/dpexplained
* Jim Trott's & my book - Design Patterns Explained: A New Perspective on
Object-Oriented Design is now available
* Scott Bain's & my new CD based XML training is now available as well


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Button [mailto:bbutton01@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:35 PM
To: xpstl@yahoogroups.com; stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xpstl] Seminar by Alan Shalloway


Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is here,
and schedule this.

I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.

bab
---
Brian Button             bbutton@...
Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
Object Mentor, Inc.

Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway


> Brian:
> I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in the St.
> Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
talk
> at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I'm interested and will attend.
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Brian Button [mailto:bbutton01@...]
   Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:35 PM
   To: xpstl@yahoogroups.com; stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [xpstl] Seminar by Alan Shalloway


   Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
   Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
   actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
   show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is here,
   and schedule this.

   I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.

   bab
   ---
   Brian Button             bbutton@...
   Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
   Object Mentor, Inc.

   Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
   To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
   Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
   Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway


   > Brian:
   > I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in the
St.
   > Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
   > putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
   talk
   > at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm



         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian,

I agree with Mark's suggestion.  And I would enjoy
Alan's tutorial as well.

Thanks,

Larry

--- Mark Balbes <mark@...> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I suggest you coordinate with one or more of the
> local groups that have
> regular meetings. For example, schedule the talk for
> the Java Users
> Group or SLUUG. You'll have a bigger audience and
> won't be competing
> with the numerous regularly scheduled talks in town.
>
> Mark
> Brian Button wrote:
>
> > Is anyone interested in having Alan present his
> tutorial on "Refactoring,
> > Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St.
> Louis? I'm interested in
> > actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20
> people to him, and have 3
> > show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room
> for the time Alan is here,
> > and schedule this.
> >
> > I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you
> will, too.
> >
> > bab
> > ---
> > Brian Button             bbutton@...
> > Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
> > Object Mentor, Inc.
> >
> > Extreme Programming in St. Louis
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
> > To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> > Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by
> Alan Shalloway
> >
> >
> > > Brian:
> > > I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of
> days.  Are you in
> > the St.
> > > Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in
> April.  Any interest in me
> > > putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You
> can see more about the
> > talk
> > > at:
>
http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor*
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
>
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707276718:H\
M/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=1016400692%3eM=2150\
02.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1707276718:HM/A=847665/R=1>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Mark J. Balbes, Ph.D.         mark@...
> Nuclear Physicist and Java Software Developer
>
> Visit the St. Louis Web Developers Wireless SIG at
> http://www.stlwebdev.org/sigs/wireless
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

I am game depending on the date/time.  I am sure i can interrest at
least a few other folk in attending as well.

cheers,
a


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am in.

--- Aaron Hinni <aaron@...> wrote:
> I am game depending on the date/time.  I am sure i
> can interrest at
> least a few other folk in attending as well.
>
> cheers,
> a
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> xpstl-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can even do Java if it
would encourage more people to show up (are you listening, Jeff??? :)) I'll
just sit in a corner myself and code in a real language :) Advice about a
project would be encouraged, or we could do PhotoWeb again, but as a Java
program.

How does that sound? I'd really like to do some sort of XP event this month,
as we missed last month, and the group has been pretty quiet.

bab

---
Brian Button             bbutton@...
Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
Object Mentor, Inc.

Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

FYI, at the Steercom meeting for SLUUG last night, everyone was interested in
having Alan speak at one of our meetings, but April is already booked with
someone else.  We do want to ask him to speak on one of his return trips
later in the year.

In fact, the group was interested in XP in general.  I think Christine, our
presentation manager, has already talked to Brian - possibly for a
presentation at ITEC and at a regular meeting.

We're also looking for someone to do a Ruby tutorial (about 20-30 minutes).
(Hint...hint...volunteers, anyone???)

Did we ever come up with a for-sure venue for Alan's April visit?

Sue

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: Re: [xpstl] Seminar by Alan Shalloway
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:02:12 -0600
From: Susan Hurst <suehurst@...>
To: xpstl@yahoogroups.com


Mark's suggestion is a good one.  I think SLUUG's April presentations are
already locked in but I'm going to the Steercom meeting tomorrow night
(Monday) so I'll find out for sure - I'll get this on the agenda tonight.  We
also have Eric Raymond coming in some time in April.

Alan's topics probably fit in more with OOSIG than SLUUG, but the SLUUG
members would still enjoy them.  If we can't put anything together for April,
we might be able to do something on one of his subsequent trips.

To respond to your questions, Brian, I would definitely be interested in
attending Alan seminars.  My only conflict would be previously scheduled
events, so knowing a date asap is critical.

Sue

On Sunday 17 March 2002 20:27, you wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I suggest you coordinate with one or more of the local groups that have
> regular meetings. For example, schedule the talk for the Java Users
> Group or SLUUG. You'll have a bigger audience and won't be competing
> with the numerous regularly scheduled talks in town.
>
> Mark
>
> Brian Button wrote:
> > Is anyone interested in having Alan present his tutorial on "Refactoring,
> > Design Patterns, and XP" while he is here in St. Louis? I'm interested in
> > actual committments, as I'd hate to promise 20 people to him, and have 3
> > show up. If we are interested, I'll find a room for the time Alan is
> > here, and schedule this.
> >
> > I'd love to see this, and I'm hoping some of you will, too.
> >
> > bab
> > ---
> > Brian Button             bbutton@...
> > Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
> > Object Mentor, Inc.
> >
> > Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan Shalloway" <alshall@...>
> > To: "Brian Button" <bbutton@...>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:26 PM
> > Subject: RE: OFFLINE RESPONSE Re: [XP] seminar by Alan Shalloway
> >
> > > Brian:
> > > I'll be submitting my talk in the next couple of days.  Are you in
> >
> > the St.
> >
> > > Louis area? I'm coming out to visit there in April.  Any interest in me
> > > putting the talk on to your xp user group?  You can see more about the
> >
> > talk
> >
> > > at: http://www.netobjectives.com/events/pr_sf_2002_03_ref_dp_xp.htm
> >
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--
*****************************************************
Susan E. Hurst
suehurst@...
Home:  314-822-9314
Cell:  314-486-3261

-------------------------------------------------------

--
*****************************************************
Susan E. Hurst
suehurst@...
Home:  314-822-9314
Cell:  314-486-3261

From: "Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>

> How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can even do Java
if it
> would encourage more people to show up (are you listening, Jeff??? :))
I'll

I believe I could make that date.  Where do you have in mind?

Kyle

>>>>> "Susan" == Susan Hurst <suehurst@...> writes:

     Susan> FYI, at the Steercom meeting for SLUUG last night, everyone
     Susan> was interested in having Alan speak at one of our meetings,
     Susan> but April is already booked with someone else.  We do want
     Susan> to ask him to speak on one of his return trips later in the
     Susan> year.

That might be best. Given that different groups plan their speakers a
while in advance, it might be hard to find a group to host him on such
short notice.

     Susan> In fact, the group was interested in XP in general.  I
     Susan> think Christine, our presentation manager, has already
     Susan> talked to Brian - possibly for a presentation at ITEC and
     Susan> at a regular meeting.

Yes, I'm speaking on Thursday, May 23rd, from 10:30 to 12:30 -- can't
wait! I would be happy to give the same talk for your group, if you
like. BTW, FYI, one of our clients is doing TestDrivenDesign while
hacking the kernel :)

     Susan> We're also looking for someone to do a Ruby tutorial (about
     Susan> 20-30 minutes). (Hint...hint...volunteers, anyone???)

I'm not sure I'm the most expert Ruby guy around here, but I could do
this, too. Aaron Hinni or Kyle might be able to do it as well, if they
want...

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

>     Susan> We're also looking for someone to do a Ruby tutorial (about
>     Susan> 20-30 minutes). (Hint...hint...volunteers, anyone???)

> I'm not sure I'm the most expert Ruby guy around here, but I could do
> this, too. Aaron Hinni or Kyle might be able to do it as well, if they
> want...


I would defer to Brian or Aaron if they are eager, since they know more
Ruby than I.  But I know plenty to do an introductory tutorial of 20-30
minutes.  That would be just enough time to show a few of the key ideas
in Ruby, it uncommon features (code blocks, changing the behaviour of
any class or object, etc.)

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

FYI - Next Tuesday, the 26th is the Wireless SIG meeting.

Brian Button wrote:

> How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can even do Java
> if it
> would encourage more people to show up (are you listening, Jeff??? :))
> I'll
> just sit in a corner myself and code in a real language :) Advice about a
> project would be encouraged, or we could do PhotoWeb again, but as a Java
> program.
>
> How does that sound? I'd really like to do some sort of XP event this
> month,
> as we missed last month, and the group has been pretty quiet.
>
> bab
>
> ---
> Brian Button             bbutton@...
> Senior Consultant    http://www.objectmentor.com
> Object Mentor, Inc.
>
> Extreme Programming in St. Louis http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can even do
Java
> > if it

> FYI - Next Tuesday, the 26th is the Wireless SIG meeting.


I'd like to attend the Wireless SIG.  How about that Wednesday or
Thursday for the picnic, Brian?

The St. Louis Info Arch. group is also meeting that same night, by the
way.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

Hi all:
I am very encouraged by your interest in my talks.  Unfortunately, I
have had to make a change in plans regarding them and I won't be out
in April after all.  I usually have a couple of months advance notice
before coming out and my plans don't usually change so next time I
think it will work out.  I will definitely give XPSTL notice the next
time I come out.  If any other groups are interested in me giving a
talk (either the one I mentioned, one on "The Need For Lightweight
Methodologies"  or "An Introduction to Design Patterns", please send
me a note at alshall@...
If any of you are interested in getting the notes for my talk, sign
up for our e-zine by sending an e-mail to info@... with
the word subscribe in the subject.  Please include your city and
state.  You can always unsubscribe although you will likely find the
e-zine to be useful (and we never give out our names).
Alan Shalloway
CEO, Sr. Consultant Net Objectives

Oops -- sorry, I wan't listening.  ;->

--- Mark Balbes <mark@b...> wrote:
> FYI - Next Tuesday, the 26th is the Wireless SIG meeting.
>
> Brian Button wrote:
> > How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can
> > even do Java if it would encourage more people to show up
> > (are you listening, Jeff??? :))


Tuesday wouldn't be good for me -- being a talk *by* my career
manager.  It'll "look good" for me to show interest in that.  ;->


So go ahead and do it in a "toy" language if you want.
   ;->  :-O  ;->

>>>>> "Jeff" == jgrigg  <jeffgrigg63132> writes:

     Jeff> Oops -- sorry, I wan't listening.  ;->
     Jeff> --- Mark Balbes <mark@b...> wrote:
     >> FYI - Next Tuesday, the 26th is the Wireless SIG meeting.
     >>
     >> Brian Button wrote:
     >> > How about next Tuesday night? Same time, 7-10 PM. We can even
     >> > do Java if it would encourage more people to show up (are you
     >> > listening, Jeff??? :))


     Jeff> Tuesday wouldn't be good for me -- being a talk *by* my
     Jeff> career manager.  It'll "look good" for me to show interest
     Jeff> in that.  ;->


     Jeff> So go ahead and do it in a "toy" language if you want.
     Jeff>   ;-> :-O ;->

This from a VB programmer? Oh, the irony :)

OK, so that was a bad night. I really do want to have a meeting, and
maybe instead of a coding picnic we can have a discussion. I'm mulling
over an idea for a tutorial or a talk at a conference dealing with
programmers' propensity to putting up with pain in their programs
(adequate alliteration, all?)

I'd like to find a presentation that discusses why this pain is
harmful, what it costs in terms of time and motivation, and talk about
how to fix it.

An open discussion of this might be interesting.

How about a meeting sometime in the middle of April?

bab
--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

Brian said:

> I'd like to find a presentation that discusses why this pain is
> harmful, what it costs in terms of time and motivation, and talk about
> how to fix it.
>
> An open discussion of this might be interesting.
>
> How about a meeting sometime in the middle of April?


Sure, though I'd be up for a sooner date also.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

>>>>> "Kyle" == Kyle Cordes <kyle@...> writes:

     Kyle> Sure, though I'd be up for a sooner date also.

Mid-April is the first date I can commit to about being in town. I
*may* be gone the first week in April, and I won't know for another
week or so.

OTOH, you don't gotta have me there for a meeting :)

So, lecture or lab? Which would people like? I know you're out there,
because I got a dozen different people replying to me on the Alan
Shalloway thing. Speak up!

Lecture - choose a topic

* xp overview
* code smells and their costs
* test driven design
* refactoring
* xp planning
* ???

Lab - choose a project/language

* Ruby
* Java
* VB^H^H(forget I typed that:))
* ???

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

> How about a meeting sometime in the middle of April?

I'm game for a meeting in April.  I couldn't make anything sooner.

Rob

From: "Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>


> So, lecture or lab? Which would people like? I know you're out there,

> Lab - choose a project/language
>
> * Ruby
> * Java
> * VB^H^H(forget I typed that:))
> * ???


How about this:  "fishbowl coding"

We do a Lab.  We use Java, so it's widely accessible.  We start with one
computer, with a projector.  We take turns at the computer, "fishbowl"
style, in a learn-by-doing-and-watching session.  At any given time
there are two people are the computer; frequently (after tests pass, for
example) one of them steps away and a different person steps in.  They
write and refactor code, test-first, etc.  We don't do the planning, the
meetings, the customer relationship, etc.  The list of stories to
implement is set up in advance, so we just concentrate on:

* refactoring
* test-first
* simple design
* pair programming

If more than 5 or so people show up, we add a second/third computer, so
that at any moment, no more than a few people are in the "audience".
The audience members must follow closely what is happening, since they
could pop in to a chair at any time.  Brian and Kyle stay away from the
chairs as long they (we) can bear it :-) and try to coach from arm's
length instead.  We choose a problem domain such that several of us know
the tools well enough that we won't get bogged down on some API or
configuration issue.  We don't use Emacs or VI to avoid religious
conflicts.

The purpose of this is for people to experience XP-in-the-small, the
satisfaction and traction of incremental progress, the value of
test-first, and the joy of coding.  I don't expect this idea to scale
past approximately 8-10 people, but I don't know for sure.

Would this be interesting?  Fun?  Educational?  A terrible idea?

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

Kyle,

I really like this idea.  The Java/Ruby difference doesn't matter to me.
The format of the experience sounds very good.  It sounds like a great way
to get experience with refactoring and test-first design.  I think it would
be a very valuable experience.

Rob


>
> How about this:  "fishbowl coding"
>
> We do a Lab.  We use Java, so it's widely accessible.  We start with
> one computer, with a projector.  We take turns at the computer,
> "fishbowl" style, in a learn-by-doing-and-watching session.  At any
> given time there are two people are the computer; frequently (after
> tests pass, for example) one of them steps away and a different person
> steps in.  They write and refactor code, test-first, etc.  We don't do
> the planning, the meetings, the customer relationship, etc.  The list
> of stories to
> implement is set up in advance, so we just concentrate on:
>
> * refactoring
> * test-first
> * simple design
> * pair programming
>
> If more than 5 or so people show up, we add a second/third computer, so
> that at any moment, no more than a few people are in the "audience".
> The audience members must follow closely what is happening, since they
> could pop in to a chair at any time.  Brian and Kyle stay away from the
> chairs as long they (we) can bear it :-) and try to coach from arm's
> length instead.  We choose a problem domain such that several of us
> know the tools well enough that we won't get bogged down on some API or
> configuration issue.  We don't use Emacs or VI to avoid religious
> conflicts.
>
> The purpose of this is for people to experience XP-in-the-small, the
> satisfaction and traction of incremental progress, the value of
> test-first, and the joy of coding.  I don't expect this idea to scale
> past approximately 8-10 people, but I don't know for sure.
>
> Would this be interesting?  Fun?  Educational?  A terrible idea?
>
> [ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
> [ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
> [ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
> [ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]
>
>
>
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>>>>> "Rob" == Robert Thornton <rthornton@...> writes:

     Rob> Kyle, I really like this idea.  The Java/Ruby difference
     Rob> doesn't matter to me.  The format of the experience sounds
     Rob> very good.  It sounds like a great way to get experience with
     Rob> refactoring and test-first design.  I think it would be a
     Rob> very valuable experience.

Kyle, Have you been following the XpUtah group? They did that just
this past week :) Zhon Johanson is going to put on a TDD tutorial
based on this exact topic at XpU :)

I'm up for it! Count me in!! When can we do it?

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

>>>>> "Kyle" == Kyle Cordes <kyle@...> writes:

     Kyle> How about this: "fishbowl coding"

XpUtah had extra people involved with this as coaches and color
commentators. They did replays of the cool refactorings, smart-ass
comments about the coding, etc.

It sounded like a lot of fun.

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

>>>>> "Kyle" == Kyle Cordes <kyle@...> writes:

     Kyle> How about this: "fishbowl coding"

http://www.xputah.org/cgi-bin/wiki?XpProgramingInaFishBowl

bab
--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

>     Kyle> How about this: "fishbowl coding"
>
> http://www.xputah.org/cgi-bin/wiki?XpProgramingInaFishBowl


Great stuff.  I will absorb the contents of that page.

I'm a little leery of the number of roles they have defined; perhaps
that is the mechanism for scaling it beyond the small group I had in
mind, though.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]